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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
The more I see of 3rd the more I want it. I was pretty adamant about dismissing it as a Persona 3 FES type dungeon crawler but it seems a lot meatier than that.
DrROBschiz
Member
Insta-Sub
how did i even miss this topic!
Just watched the Prologue translated on youtube
It looks friggin awesome and damn does it connect immediately to everything that came before and after.
Fucking assholes say Cold Steel is a good standalone jumping point for the series but WTF is so ingrained!
how did i even miss this topic!
Just watched the Prologue translated on youtube
It looks friggin awesome and damn does it connect immediately to everything that came before and after.
Fucking assholes say Cold Steel is a good standalone jumping point for the series but WTF is so ingrained!
Well, the realistic deal is that Falcom wants the US to be caught up with Japan on Kiseki and the only way to do that was to get moving on Cold Steel. It seems like they didn't have much of a choice in skipping 3rd/Zero/Ao. Also, while 3rd can come out later on Steam. Zero/Ao in 2-5 years would come out in the US on...psp and psp is not going to be a viable release platform in the US in 2-5 years, which is obviously problematic. So since they can't bring out 3rd/Zero/Ao, might as well say they're unimportant and leave people feeling less bad about missing them.
I think maybe the best solution would be 3rd coming out on Steam after CS2/3, and then at some point Falcom re-releases Zero/Ao on PS4 as a remaster and the game can come over then.
I think maybe the best solution would be 3rd coming out on Steam after CS2/3, and then at some point Falcom re-releases Zero/Ao on PS4 as a remaster and the game can come over then.
Falcom made CS specifically for it to be a jumping in point for a new audience. I get where you're coming from but it's not wrong.
DrROBschiz
Member
DrROBschiz
Member
Ouch
If only they were raking in enough cash to expand and translate faster... if it would even translate to being more efficient with more people
I suppose I would be happy with just a detailed synopsis at this point lol
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Well, some of Zero is translated here, but it stops midway through.Ouch
If only they were raking in enough cash to expand and translate faster... if it would even translate to being more efficient with more people
I suppose I would be happy with just a detailed synopsis at this point lol
I still think we'll get the three missing links someday. Falcom just wanted us to play catch up while the Vita/PS3 were still somewhat relevant. It makes sense, because if they focused on 3rd/Zero/Ao before Cold Steel we would likely have never seen Cold Steel at all, since it doesn't have a PC version and its systems would be long dead by the time they could realistically start working on it. It's an alternate way of viewing the story - just be glad Cold Steel isn't a direct sequel to Ao and instead happens during the same timeframe.
On top of that, there's a ton of 'unspoken, read between the lines' callbacks to 3rd throughout Cold Steel.
I've been watching someone play Cold Steel for the first time after he marathoned through SC ~ Ao and he's having paranoia moments over little design touches involving the old school building and so forth, related back to 3rd.
(As a heads up, if you wish to avoid it, the two images are from early Sen + a late game 'map' from 3rd.)
Here's a link to one of his observations: https://twitter.com/Peytral/status/680948384103030784
Another observation I've personally made:
3rd's title screen: http://i.imgur.com/nzzl1c4.jpg
Cold Steel, chp 4: http://i.imgur.com/U4tZ4md.jpg
The most frustrating thing about stuff like these is that there's never any comment on these kinds of connections, but we do know that Falcom does a lot of subtle storytelling in the game's engine, too. Storytelling-wise, one of the important things I think 3rd teaches you is to look for the stuff that's "between the lines."
This is especially important because 3rd has two protagonists who don't need to learn about the world, which you didn't have with Estelle through FC. They could use Estelle being an idiot as an excuse to teach you something about Zemuria. You don't really get that opportunity with Kevin and Ries.
And even now. I'm playing through 3rd now, and I'm seeing things and recognizing subtle comments in dialogue that I never noticed before that make me rethink things about the later games. 3rd really is a brilliant title. Not only is it seeding so much information in an incredible and brilliant way, I think it's proof that Falcom has pretty much known the direction this series is going to go for a long time.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Yeah, I share some of this optimism, although perhaps more on the wishful side for the Crossbell games. I'm hoping we can get the 3rd in a reasonable time frame.
One fear that I have right now is that Cold Steel III will heavily spoil/rely on Ao. That would create a potentially tricky situation for XSEED and for the fans.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
If Cold Steel III is PS4, it could always be put on the backburner while Zero/Ao were worked on. I know there's apparently 1000000000 issues around the PC versions of these games, but hypoethetically speaking, I wouldn't be averse to going CS -> CSII -> Crossbell duology -> CSIII.
Right now, there's a nice situation with Cold Steel I/II and Zero/Ao running parallel with each other. Without expanding on details for spoilers, I can see a potential route to do Cold Steel III in the same situation.
Progressing beyond Cold Steel II's ending is going to be interesting, because the game is, as Kondo promised, a paradigm shift, so I can see reason why they wouldn't play that hand juuust yet without going to the next location. (Kondo's said it would be Calvard, as well.)
On the other hand, since such big events happen in both the endings of CS2 and Ao, if they DO progress forward, I can be absolute sure that Sen III will very likely start to spoil it. Hell, CS2 itself spoils parts of Ao's ending, too.
DrROBschiz
Member
The connections are everywhere both explicit (
Scarlet
Not to mention all the timeline info, name drops and storylines that run right through the CORE of the Cold Steel story that are explicitly connected and major
Oh, that spoiler is something else entirely! ...and I'm not even sure where it goes yet.
DrROBschiz
Member
Oh, that spoiler is something else entirely! ...and I'm not even sure where it goes yet.
Well after watching the 3rd prologue ... I was like THATS fucking Ries but of course she mentions she has a damn sister... so yeah
Apparently though its never explicitly stated that Scarlet is Rufina Argent?
Apparently though its never explicitly stated that Scarlet is Rufina Argent?
Scarlet can't be Rufina. I think there were some amazing crack theories regarding this, but Sen II does dash this idea completely.
3rd, however, also basically gives you the details for Rufina and what's happened with her, and the templar sword that both Ries and Scarlet use are apparently one of the weapons a Gralsritter might wield.
3rd, however, also basically gives you the details for Rufina and what's happened with her, and the templar sword that both Ries and Scarlet use are apparently one of the weapons a Gralsritter might wield.
EDIT: I do want to add in that this is how all beautiful crack theories are born. Welcome to the club. <3
DrROBschiz
Member
So did Scarlet steal one of was she once affliated with the church? You dont need to spoil it for me but seems crazy to give he a damn Templar blade for no reason
It's not without reason, don't worry. But you get your answer in Cold Steel II.
DrROBschiz
Member
Im gonna guess shes a heretic at this point and pray Kevin shows up to take her number lol
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Kevin is busy in Crossbell during Sen II, unfortunately
I wish there was a list of all known Ouroboros members/members of the Church WITHOUT Zero/Ao spoilers, haha. Those pages taunt me on the wiki. ._.
I can make you a list, but... You played through FC, SC and Cold Steel yourself, right?
My original idea for the Wikia was to use games specific spoiler tags so that users themselves could personalise and control its contents. Turned out to be more complex than I hoped, heh.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
So I just finished The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky and currently downloading FC (which I bought on this sale almost at full price because I was loving the first one so much), I really liked the game it has that JRPG magic I thought it was forgotten in the PSX/PS2 era.
Does the second chapter finish Estelle story or I will be waiting years before I see the conclusion on the third chapter?
Does the second chapter finish Estelle story or I will be waiting years before I see the conclusion on the third chapter?
FC/SC are a self-contained duology. The 3rd game is a really big deal, but it's not about Estelle anymore and even though it's an awesome game with a ton of really important plot stuff, it's 'introducing new things and new plot threads for the games after it' more than it is 'we didn't resolve this from FC/SC.' Basically, it's an epilogue.
Once you play SC and finish it you'll get a conclusion to Estelle's story.
Well, I would like an informed opinion from the guys that played all the games.
In december, I was playing The 3rd on the PS3 and was progressing slowly. Unfortunatelly, I had to travel and leave the game on hold until I got back.
While travelling, I started Zero no Kiseki and I am currently on the beginning of chapter 4. I intend to finish this soon.
After I finish with Zero no Kiseki, should I go back to the 3rd or proceed and finish Ao no Kiseki ?
In december, I was playing The 3rd on the PS3 and was progressing slowly. Unfortunatelly, I had to travel and leave the game on hold until I got back.
While travelling, I started Zero no Kiseki and I am currently on the beginning of chapter 4. I intend to finish this soon.
After I finish with Zero no Kiseki, should I go back to the 3rd or proceed and finish Ao no Kiseki ?
I have no hesitation whatsoever in saying 'absolutely.' You'll find some of the scenes to have a lot more meaning to them, in a sense, if you have context from 3rd going on them.
Ok. Will get back to the 3rd then after Zero.
I was lucky that what I played from the 3rd gave me enough information about some scenes and events in Zero. Others I still have to fill the gap
like what happened to Ren and how or what she`s doing in Crossbell
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Yeah, I finished all three English games. And eh, don't worry about it. I'm mostly just interested in knowing how many blanks there are to fill in. Like, The Enforcers go up to 15 as far as we know, so there's obviously a handful that haven't been revealed yet.
What if Cold Steel III is a prequel set around the time of FC? :x I really wonder if Rean and co. will even be the focus.
I'll write down about whose existence we know, not what we know and from what games they're from. Like: "Ouroboros known: 0, 2, etc."
Septian Church
Dominion:
The first (and support), the second (and support), the fifth (and support), the eighth, and the ninth (and support). We don't know whether all seats are occupied.
Ouroboros
Anguis:
The second, the third, the sixth and the seventh. Only (strong) suspicions about one, four and five.
0, I, II, VI, VIII, IX, X, XIII, XV, and a new, still unnumbered one.
Considering the teaser, I'm almost certain Cold Steel III will take place after II. I don't expect it to start earlier than II's second half.
Nitpicky, but isn't it Enforcer instead of Legion as of the English version of Second Chapter? I want to say Xseed even retroactively updated the PC version of First Chapter to change it from Legion to Enforcer, but I'm not sure if I'm right on that or not. Some clarification on the terminology would be appreciated.
Nightengale
Member
In the Legion portion, when you say
new, unnumbered one
a revealed Enforcer who hasn't announced his number
Legion candidate, just like Renne was and what Weissman proposed Estelle to be?
Also, curious to know what the suspicions are on
the unrevealed Anguis, unless it's heavy from Ao/CS2 plot details.
An Enforcer that was recruited, and we just haven't got the number yet. Technically, it was hinted in a game, but it took one of the supplementary books to confirm it. Falcom does that a lot, too.
Ao no Kiseki Evo
Post ch.2, pre ch.3
Post ch.2, pre ch.3
Man, the intermission suckssss. Stopping the story to have a bunch of boring ass swimsuit fanservice filler is zzzzzz. Hard to play it for more than about 15 mins at a time because it seriously puts me to sleep.
I'm kind of worried about the fanservice direction Kiseki is going. I get the feeling Cold Steel is gonna have even more stupid animu stuff like Let's Go to the Beach event!
I guess SC still had the Onsen quest, but at least it was a quest and it felt a lot more goofy/funny and random than the "which girl are you going to lather with suntan lotion" crap in Ao.
Can't wait to finish the intermission and get back to the main story!
I'm kind of worried about the fanservice direction Kiseki is going. I get the feeling Cold Steel is gonna have even more stupid animu stuff like Let's Go to the Beach event!
I guess SC still had the Onsen quest, but at least it was a quest and it felt a lot more goofy/funny and random than the "which girl are you going to lather with suntan lotion" crap in Ao.
Can't wait to finish the intermission and get back to the main story!
(some 3rd reveals)
The First: Dan Russell, Tita's father. They share voice actors. He left Liberl right before the execution of the Gospel Plan started and returned soon after it was completed. Both speak in a polite manner. We know Dan used to be a highly skilled Bo staff fighter before retiring from Guild after an unspecified injury.
The Fourth: Lechter Arundel. Speak in the same carefree speech pattern. Narrative wise, it obviously doesn't make sense but since that's so obvious, there might be more to it.
(minor 3rd reveals)
The Fifth: Dominion 8. Referred to by fellow Anguis as sinner (破戒, which is a reasonable alias for a turncoat among the highest ranked Gralsritter. Both are old men. He's immediate presence during the Salt Pillar incident has me the believe he is the cause of that incident and earned him his alias. Yotaka has a solid theory on this on Kiseki Crack, but involves major spoilers. The Fifth has in-depth information on Dominion as well.
, which is a reasonable alias for a turncoat among the highest ranked Gralsritter. Both are old men. He's immediate presence during the Salt Pillar incident has me the believe he is the cause of that incident and earned him his alias. Yotaka has a solid theory on this on Kiseki Crack, but involves major spoilers. The Fifth has in-depth information on Dominion as well.That's right. And I understand why they settled on Enforcer rather than Legion -- since Legion signifies a group rather than an individual -- but since Falcom consistently has it read as 'Legion', I'm sticking with that.
Shouta
Member
That event was probably the worst one in the series thus far. CS has more Persona-ish stuff where you get to spend time with characters you want. There's a bit of classic dumb anime trope though like accidental sukebe.
Palette Swap
Member
Going from SC to Cold Steel, I was favorably impressed with a number of system changes and quality-of-life tuning. So I wonder when they first appeared, between 3rd and CS, and I figure this is the best place to ask. I'm talking about stuff like:
- fast travel in towns
- a dash button on top of the default running stance
- the ability to skip animations during fights
- a map available everywhere, including dungeons, paired with an orbal ability to see chests on the map.
I also noticed a paradigm shift in equipment and quartzes, where the tradeoff approach of "boost x stat but decrease y" seems gone. I'm not listing this as a positive because I'm honestly ambivalent about it.
The other thing I miss from FC/SC is the ability to overlay directions while on the field. I liked knowing in one click that if I kept going that way, I'd reach Whatever Gate while going the other way sent me to Something Tower. If anything, I wish more games did it.
I assume links are new to Sen, considering their explanation is that they rely on the ARCUS system, but are counters a new thing too?
One secondary character bit I might have missed in SC but that seems explained in CS early on regarding a sword fighting school
- fast travel in towns
- a dash button on top of the default running stance
- the ability to skip animations during fights
- a map available everywhere, including dungeons, paired with an orbal ability to see chests on the map.
I also noticed a paradigm shift in equipment and quartzes, where the tradeoff approach of "boost x stat but decrease y" seems gone. I'm not listing this as a positive because I'm honestly ambivalent about it.
The other thing I miss from FC/SC is the ability to overlay directions while on the field. I liked knowing in one click that if I kept going that way, I'd reach Whatever Gate while going the other way sent me to Something Tower. If anything, I wish more games did it.
I assume links are new to Sen, considering their explanation is that they rely on the ARCUS system, but are counters a new thing too?
One secondary character bit I might have missed in SC but that seems explained in CS early on regarding a sword fighting school
they make a big deal of Rean's Eight Leaves techniques, because only the Ka-Fai school teaches it. I remembered Annelace uses a similar technique, so I assume that means Annelace was part of that school too and is a bigger shot than I thought? Is this mentioned in FC or SC?
Nightengale
Member
Erm... I kinda want to answer this, but in hindsight, I can't remember where and when exactly were the reveals made. =/
FC spoiler
One of the practitioners of Eight Leaves One Blade is Alan Richards, and we learn that he was taught by Cassius, whom yes, being a [Divine Blade], means he is one of the master-class practitioners of Eight Leaves One Blade.
As for the character you mentioned,
yes, Annelace is a practitioner as well, but I don't remember when it was revealed specifically
I don't know...
The intermission had Randy and Wazy hijinks. That won the whole chapter for me.
Also, the intermission had that one moment in Ao that made me want to toss my PSP out a window. I'm pretty sure that you've not gotten to that yet.
Also, the intermission had that one moment in Ao that made me want to toss my PSP out a window. I'm pretty sure that you've not gotten to that yet.
From the top of my head:
- Fast-travel started with The 3rd between areas;
- Dash button since Cold Steel;
- S-Craft Animations can be skipped since Zero;
- Dungeon maps since... Zero, I think?
The paradigm shift in equipment and quartzes you describe seems to be part of the ARCUS orbment system. Up to the ENIGMA-II system used in Ao before it, it followed the basics introduced in FC. Cold Steel tried to make the system more accessible to newcomers, but veterans of the series generally consider it to be a step back.
About your spoiler: Ka-fai is Anelace's grandfather.
S-Craft animation skip started in 3rd. Arts animation skip started in Zero.
Though I have not played 3rd, from what I've understood from some of the tidbits I've read about it & the way people comment on its importance & connectedness to pretty much everything, isn't the best way to describe it that it acts as a kind of bridge between Trails in the Sky FC + SC and pretty much everything that comes afterwards, rather than being "just" an epilogue? So while it expands on some stuff that's already talked about in the first two games, it also introduces quite a lot of completely new plot threads that will be more or less important in both the Zero + Blue duology as well as the Cold Steel trilogy. I mean, epilogues can and often do set up future storylines in fiction, but isn't 3rd kind of too far removed from FC & SC (i.e. focuses on different main characters, whole new setting) & the new story stuff a bit too significant that calling it an epilogue doesn't quite do it justice? To me it sounds like rather than Trails in the Sky 3rd, the game should've been called something like Trails to the Future with just how much it is seemingly focused on setting up subsequent games.
That's just the impression I've gotten without having played the game, though, so maybe I'm not one to listen on this subject.
Palette Swap
Member
My obsession led me to buy the official guides for FC+SC, Sen and Sen II in anticipation of a western release). It's kind of mind blowing how they managed to cram very exhaustive info on FC+SC in a 170 page book. Flowcharts and small maps help, but still.
If anyone is interested, the Perfect Guides for both Sen
games each come with DLC codes for fluff like original costume colors. I have no plans to play the Japanese version of either game, so feel free to ask.
If anyone is interested, the Perfect Guides for both Sen
games each come with DLC codes for fluff like original costume colors. I have no plans to play the Japanese version of either game, so feel free to ask.
Damn, I knew I had seen that technique elsewhere
Richard's S-craft made me sweat a bit in FC. So yeah, it would make sense he's a practitioner from that school. As for Cassius, is this just inferred from his title and degree of sword mastery, or is this stated somewhere? I remember there's a bit of dialogue with Zane or Kurt IIRC, where he mentions how proficient Cassius is with a sword, and how his perfect and deep understanding of combat made him great with a staff when he switched ten years earlier.
Yeah, it was always a bit frustrating to sacrifice stats for others, because you intuitively want to max everything, but that allowed for better balance and took more dedication in character builds. That's why I'm ambivalent, I always groaned when faced with these maluses, but I find I'm almost missing them now.
Whoa. Where does that bit of lore appear? Did I somehow miss it in SC or is it detailed in 3rd ?
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Going from Cold Steel to FC, these were a few things I am missing. Also maps with indicators for quest and NPC locations on the maps as well.
The website for Trails in the Sky SC hints at it under Anelace's profile. If it's not outright stated in SC, it is in one of The 3rd's side stories.
Just so you all know, these threads are why I love Gaf. The jrpg threads are my favorite aspects. Even if I'm so annoyed with my laziness about buckling down to really start learning Japanese. Because seriously, there's so many I never get to experience.
I originally played trails in the sky fc when it was new on psp, and the waiting killed me for sc... So I bought sc immediately and was overjoyed with how good it was. I've tried to evangelize it to my friends, but a lot of them a hesitant on a psp era game, which is a shame. Then I picked up cold steel and I am currently 88 hours in, almost done my nightmare playthrough for the platinum. I need csII . Now.
I'm just glad they announced that release at the same time! I didn't want to add ii to my list of long waits. Haha
I originally played trails in the sky fc when it was new on psp, and the waiting killed me for sc... So I bought sc immediately and was overjoyed with how good it was. I've tried to evangelize it to my friends, but a lot of them a hesitant on a psp era game, which is a shame. Then I picked up cold steel and I am currently 88 hours in, almost done my nightmare playthrough for the platinum. I need csII . Now.
I'm just glad they announced that release at the same time! I didn't want to add ii to my list of long waits. Haha
It's in SC, Anelace mentions it.
Nightengale
Member
Thanks a lot, Gu4n, on the replies of the speculations as well as the recent Ys prologue thing.
That 1st spoilerculation, whew.
=P
That 1st spoilerculation, whew.
Well, that would be something of a twist if it turns out Dan is really an Anguis. Though I guess if that's the case, it's the perfect scenario for Agate to get Erica's approval lol
(I love the name Spoilerculation. )
First Theory:
I'm not in agreement with this theory.
Third Theory:
(Continuation on that spoiler)
I would be devastated if that happened.
)First Theory:
I'm not in agreement with this theory.
There is someone else that is introduced very very briefly in 3rd and comes back again in Ao no Kiseki. His timing on things is too good (we learned to not get caught in that by Alba!!) and he just knows a lot on things. There IS plausible deniability on that last bit with him, though.
I'm just super suspicious because 1) he's at an event that is definitely Ouroboros connected, 2) He's the one NPC in said event that Kevin /actually comments on/. That means something to me. The game's trying to get you to notice him.
I'm just super suspicious because 1) he's at an event that is definitely Ouroboros connected, 2) He's the one NPC in said event that Kevin /actually comments on/. That means something to me. The game's trying to get you to notice him.
Third Theory:
(Continuation on that spoiler)
I don't think that he caused the incident. My reason for it is stated in the door that we had for Translation Tuesday. He was in a neighboring country when it happened. If he was assisting with a trial, there are people who can keep track of where he was.
I would be devastated if that happened.
From what we see of Tita, she's so close to both of her parents. Her dad being an Anguis would be awful.
Her dad being an Anguis would be awful.Nightengale
Member
Random quip : I find it endlessly amusing that Ouroboros, despite the romaji being what it is, is still called 身喰らう蛇 within the universe instead of it's English-naming sense. Granted, this is true for all aspects of their naming scheme. [Enforcer/執行者] (Legion)
Agreed.
3rd Spoiler
Besides, the whole thing about
I would be devastated if that happened.
From what we see of Tita, she's so close to both of her parents.
Agreed.
3rd Spoiler
I really really liked the Russel family moments (and Agate being dorky as heck) in 3rd. I didn't know what to expect out of Erica and Dan when they were first introduced, but they're really cool parents.
Besides, the whole thing about
Dan not being there during the Liberl Incident applies to Erica as well. =P