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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Nightengale
Member
No. Nobody in CS1 were part of the protagonist group of Zero/Azure.
Zero/Ao are happening simultaneously during the majority of Cold Steel. Cold Steel begins before Zero does, and a lot of endgame events in Cold Steel are happening during late game events for Ao.
I've been wary of that translation because I thought that group did the machine translated Nayuta one, but that sounds more promising than I thought.
Ao no Kiseki Evo
Chapter 4 end/5 start spoilers
Chapter 4 end/5 start spoilers
Well that was fucking crazy with giant Fullmetal Alchemist Crossbell circle and super war mecha.
Uh, I expected it to have some magical stuff, but I didn't expect them to change the world balance to the point where Crossbell is waging war on the entire Zemuria.
I feel like 1) This game has way too many spoilers for Sen I/II/III and vice-versa that anyone playing Sen I/II is going to have Ao's both middle section with the West Zemuria Meeting and end section with Crossbell going nuts totally spoiled for them. 2) It's going to be boring or at least way less interesting replaying the same timeframe from another perspective than if it was Erebonia during another timeframe.
On top of that 3) The fact Ouroboros is talking about how their Illusionary Plan is taking place on Sen's side as well means it's taking Falcom at least 4 games (Zero/Ao/Sen I/Sen II) if not 5 games with Sen III to progress through another one of Ouroboros' plans (compared to 2 games in Sora FC/SC). I think the scope is too big and progress for the overall Kiseki plot is too slow because of it.
and 4) Now that they're talking about riots and crazy stuff going on in Calvard simultaneously, I wonder if after Sen III we get another 4 years of Calvard...if it's just going to be going through the same timeframe again from Calvard's side. Which would be even more boring and stopping overall series storyline progress.
I dunno, not knowing about Sen I/II (don't want to be spoiled, I'll play them soon enough), it just feels like with Ao, Falcom decided to do a Suikoden III multi-game, multi-country spanning world event that really slows down the whole series for like a decade until we move past all this.
Hopefully I'm wrong and they pull it off, because I just feel like the end of Ch.4 was kind of a jumping the shark moment for the entire Kiseki series. It's the kind of event I'd expect for like the last game in the entire Kiseki franchise.
*edit* ok Waji being a holy knight was a nice twist I didn't see coming. Thought he was a mercenary or something. He looks amazing in his knight outfit. Best voice, best clothes, best non-Lloyd character.
Uh, I expected it to have some magical stuff, but I didn't expect them to change the world balance to the point where Crossbell is waging war on the entire Zemuria.
I feel like 1) This game has way too many spoilers for Sen I/II/III and vice-versa that anyone playing Sen I/II is going to have Ao's both middle section with the West Zemuria Meeting and end section with Crossbell going nuts totally spoiled for them. 2) It's going to be boring or at least way less interesting replaying the same timeframe from another perspective than if it was Erebonia during another timeframe.
On top of that 3) The fact Ouroboros is talking about how their Illusionary Plan is taking place on Sen's side as well means it's taking Falcom at least 4 games (Zero/Ao/Sen I/Sen II) if not 5 games with Sen III to progress through another one of Ouroboros' plans (compared to 2 games in Sora FC/SC). I think the scope is too big and progress for the overall Kiseki plot is too slow because of it.
and 4) Now that they're talking about riots and crazy stuff going on in Calvard simultaneously, I wonder if after Sen III we get another 4 years of Calvard...if it's just going to be going through the same timeframe again from Calvard's side. Which would be even more boring and stopping overall series storyline progress.
I dunno, not knowing about Sen I/II (don't want to be spoiled, I'll play them soon enough), it just feels like with Ao, Falcom decided to do a Suikoden III multi-game, multi-country spanning world event that really slows down the whole series for like a decade until we move past all this.
Hopefully I'm wrong and they pull it off, because I just feel like the end of Ch.4 was kind of a jumping the shark moment for the entire Kiseki series. It's the kind of event I'd expect for like the last game in the entire Kiseki franchise.
*edit* ok Waji being a holy knight was a nice twist I didn't see coming. Thought he was a mercenary or something. He looks amazing in his knight outfit. Best voice, best clothes, best non-Lloyd character.
Although I'm not directly involved in the project, I can assure you that Zero is not being machine-translated and that the team is dedicated to quality and consistency. Heroes of Legend is an association rather than a group; several teams work on several projects, with each their own lead. Flamethrower led the Nayuta project, Zeromonkey manages the Zero project and I myself am in charge of the Brandish 2 project. Since last week, I've taken up an advisory role in the Zero project.
No, both the PSP and PC version is being worked on. The games make use of the same script files, so it's fairly easy to use them for both version.
Yes. (Ao spoiler)
I think the woman who gave birth to Laura is now known as Arianhrod.
Ao no Kiseki Evo
Final Chapter:
Final Chapter:
Progress going kind of slow because I got sick with whatever's going around and it makes you really sleepy and like Sora SC's final chapter, after a whole bunch of crazy stuff the pacing just grinds to a halt while you do "let's go revisit all of the locations in the game again and recruit people back up", reminds me of duckroll and other people getting to the end dungeon in SC and taking days and days to get engaged enough to get through it all. I guess this is the Kiseki's franchises "part 2 - final chapter end to the story" thing? Not a huge fan, Zero's final chapter I remember being non-stop exciting awesome, which I greatly prefer.
Honestly I'm gonna be very curious at how well Ao pulls together in the end after all this recruiting that's building up to a final dungeon assault on Crossbell city. Because right now everything just seems way too rushed;
normal day-to-day Crossbell duology pacing and then suddenly -> Suzaku is missing! -> Announcement on TV! -> President Tida and National Army! -> Aarios took Kia to Mishiram! -> The Alchemists are introduced and were behind it all! and teaming up with Ouroboros! -> Giant Alchemist City Circle w/Bells go! -> Super Kia! -> Erebonia and Calvard are attacking! -> Super mechs! -> Lloyd's team arrested, betrayed by Noel! -> Escape from Prison! -> Saito is legendary giant holy wolf! -> Waji is the 9th Holy Knight guy! -> Kevin! (again for a cutscene and then gone
) -> NOW CROSSBELL IS TURNING INTO A FAKE GODDESS TREASURE AND ALMOST ALL OF THE CROSSBELL POLICE HAVE SUDDENLY BECOME EVIL CARICATURES AS THEY ARE NOW THE COUNTY ARMY AND THEY'RE ALL OUT TO GET LLOYD AND FRIENDS;
that all happened really fast and the scope of the game and style of the story changed so quickly. The scope feels out of character for the down to earth slice of life Crossbell series so far (the D:G stuff at the end of Zero was not as crazy) and I'm not sure if I like this direction for the finale story-wise. Hope it comes together in the end.
Honestly I'm gonna be very curious at how well Ao pulls together in the end after all this recruiting that's building up to a final dungeon assault on Crossbell city. Because right now everything just seems way too rushed;
normal day-to-day Crossbell duology pacing and then suddenly -> Suzaku is missing! -> Announcement on TV! -> President Tida and National Army! -> Aarios took Kia to Mishiram! -> The Alchemists are introduced and were behind it all! and teaming up with Ouroboros! -> Giant Alchemist City Circle w/Bells go! -> Super Kia! -> Erebonia and Calvard are attacking! -> Super mechs! -> Lloyd's team arrested, betrayed by Noel! -> Escape from Prison! -> Saito is legendary giant holy wolf! -> Waji is the 9th Holy Knight guy! -> Kevin! (again for a cutscene and then gone
) -> NOW CROSSBELL IS TURNING INTO A FAKE GODDESS TREASURE AND ALMOST ALL OF THE CROSSBELL POLICE HAVE SUDDENLY BECOME EVIL CARICATURES AS THEY ARE NOW THE COUNTY ARMY AND THEY'RE ALL OUT TO GET LLOYD AND FRIENDS; that all happened really fast and the scope of the game and style of the story changed so quickly. The scope feels out of character for the down to earth slice of life Crossbell series so far (the D:G stuff at the end of Zero was not as crazy) and I'm not sure if I like this direction for the finale story-wise. Hope it comes together in the end.
Young Magus
Junior Member
I took a listen to the 3rds ost.......
its too good.
Wanna buy it but trying to resist ;-;.
Between this and
SC's ending hype is buliding for 3rd
its too good.
Wanna buy it but trying to resist ;-;.
Between this and
Kevins characterization in
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
SC Evo OST is out. It's... kind of bizarre. Feels like they were going for a Thai sort of theme.
UPDATE: Listened to more of it. Some tracks are better, some are worse. Infiltration is a really odd take on the track, but some tracks like Enforcers and Heartless Surprise Attack are really awesome.
UPDATE: Listened to more of it. Some tracks are better, some are worse. Infiltration is a really odd take on the track, but some tracks like Enforcers and Heartless Surprise Attack are really awesome.
Ao no Kiseki Evo
Final Chapter
Final Chapter
That being said, I do appreciate what a grounded political game Ao is and how even the fantasy elements in the end are tied into the politics.
Like, how they explain Noel's heelturn with simply "They were going to nuke us!", the game does a good job creating a scenario where you have this free zone of Crossbell that's been the subject of domestic terrorism, and damage creepovers from Erebonia and Calvard for so many years, all the while the two countries are taxing Crossbell, and even (as is shown by the mid-game climax) doing shady political plays to try to encroach more and take over Crossbell. Meanwhile the citizens are caught in the middle and constantly afraid of the two lumbering neighboring empires.
So when they try to become an independent kingdom and freeze the bank accounts of the two countries until their kingdom is recognized (obviously a dumb move, but it's a videogame), and the two kingdoms would rather wage war and invade than recognize Crossbell and its citizens as having their own country, it creates a decently realistic scenario where if Crossbell suddenly out of nowhere came into ULTIMATE MAGICAL FANTASY MECHA POWER that easily overpowered the neighbors and brought safety to Crossbell through its military magical power, it wouldn't be so far out there for a nationalistic wave led by a charismatic leader to take hold and push the whole national army, it's us vs. them, hahaha, now whose boss situation that is going on here at the end.
I think if it was a little more well-written and grown-up, it'd be a interesting take on some very complex issues that even relate to Japan in terms of nationalism and Xenophobia. As it is, it's still a very interesting political game that you just don't see in videogames, and so it's cool even if it's kind of a young adult take on politics.
Like, how they explain Noel's heelturn with simply "They were going to nuke us!", the game does a good job creating a scenario where you have this free zone of Crossbell that's been the subject of domestic terrorism, and damage creepovers from Erebonia and Calvard for so many years, all the while the two countries are taxing Crossbell, and even (as is shown by the mid-game climax) doing shady political plays to try to encroach more and take over Crossbell. Meanwhile the citizens are caught in the middle and constantly afraid of the two lumbering neighboring empires.
So when they try to become an independent kingdom and freeze the bank accounts of the two countries until their kingdom is recognized (obviously a dumb move, but it's a videogame), and the two kingdoms would rather wage war and invade than recognize Crossbell and its citizens as having their own country, it creates a decently realistic scenario where if Crossbell suddenly out of nowhere came into ULTIMATE MAGICAL FANTASY MECHA POWER that easily overpowered the neighbors and brought safety to Crossbell through its military magical power, it wouldn't be so far out there for a nationalistic wave led by a charismatic leader to take hold and push the whole national army, it's us vs. them, hahaha, now whose boss situation that is going on here at the end.
I think if it was a little more well-written and grown-up, it'd be a interesting take on some very complex issues that even relate to Japan in terms of nationalism and Xenophobia. As it is, it's still a very interesting political game that you just don't see in videogames, and so it's cool even if it's kind of a young adult take on politics.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Does anyone have an FC save for PSP that's at the East Bose highway in Chapter 1? I want to buy it on Vita but I don't want to sludge through the prologue again.
BassForever
Member
DERP DERP DERP DERP I'M DUMB
BassForever
Member
I thought I read some people doing that :X Ignore me if I'm wrong
I mean... it's not like converting saves between emulators. You can't just swap/edit bytes and suddenly a psp save is a pc save.
Perhaps what you read is someone taking a PSP save file and using it on a PSP emulator?
BassForever
Member
Did a little searching, it was people who played FC on PSP and were looking for a save of SC on PC and how to get it to work
Apologies D:
TonkatsuAddict
Member
Just finished up a TitS FC new game plus the other day to get to level 40 and max BP. I'm now a few hours into SC. Is this game seriously 70+ hours like I've seen other people say?
Nightengale
Member
Add 50-70% to the amount of time you took to finish FC and that's about it.
And then some. But only if you're the type to go through people's houses and stop them out on the street to chat on the regular. Going from plot point to plot point and ignoring a sidequest or two will probably save you several hours of gameplay time.
TonkatsuAddict
Member
I do stop and talk to people a good bit and do a lot of the sidequests, so it sounds like I've got quite a bit of play ahead of me. With how much praise the series gets, I'm looking forward to it! Thanks!
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Was able to snipe a chapter 1 save from where I was on Reddit. Awesome!
I'm in the final boss rush of SC and at 55 hours, but I didn't remotely talk to everyone. I don't have that much time.
So I'm playing FC and someone spoiled a part of Joshua's past for me and I'm super duper angry and now it's bugging the hell out of me.
All I really want to know is if the spoilers are encountered in first chapter, nothing more.
The spoiler is
I just reached Zeiss
Also another question, is there a way to go back to the previous towns visited, I miss talking to the NPCs in Rolent.
Edit: also do I lose out on anything, even minor stuff, I just jump to SC to Cold Steel? The 3rd builds up to Zero, but could it also build up to cold steel?
All I really want to know is if the spoilers are encountered in first chapter, nothing more.
The spoiler is
Joshua was an assassin or something before Cassius took care of him
Also another question, is there a way to go back to the previous towns visited, I miss talking to the NPCs in Rolent.
Edit: also do I lose out on anything, even minor stuff, I just jump to SC to Cold Steel? The 3rd builds up to Zero, but could it also build up to cold steel?
Nightengale
Member
Not in the first game.
There's no answer to that other than "yes, you lose out on some things." Even skipping games like Zero/Ao also mean that you lose on some stuff. Being newcomer-friendly and not tied to any existing major plot baggage from previous games doesn't mean there's no subtle references here and there.
On the bright side, Gu4n and omgfloofy are translating some scenes from 3rd that tie back most strongly to Cold Steel, so if you can always view those if you wanna see those connective tissues that link to Cold Steel.
Honestly, just play Cold Steel after SC. Don't worry or overthink what you'll miss out.
BassForever
Member
No way to go back to old towns in FC or SC outside of sc spoilers
chapter 8 in sc where you can freely walk to all 5
Said spoiler* is revealed in fc *
its more complicated then that though
I mean the only things it seems like we missed going from sc -> cs is context of whats going on in crossbell during zero/ao which didn't seem super critical to me while playing cs. There is at least one scene in 3rd that is referenced in CS but it also had minimal impact on my enjoyment of CS.
Palette Swap
Member
Seeing the GOTY results thread, and regardless of the FC/SC shenanigans that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, it's remarkable to see how the series has started to form a very solid, if niche, following here.
I didn't vote for CS because I only finished it this week, not in 2015, and I don't know how I feel about it. The last few hours are incredible but there's a good chunk of the game that felt like a solid-but-not-great JRPG driven forward by how good the universe is.
I hope CS2 doesn't release at the ass end of December too lol.
I'm posting this here to not pollute the GOTY thread with Trails talk, but looking back, 2015 really was the year to shine in the West for the series. I hope this high quality award is a sign of more people being drawn to the series as word of mouth spreads.
That's a good indication of how much people who think a game is top ten material value it.
I didn't vote for CS because I only finished it this week, not in 2015, and I don't know how I feel about it. The last few hours are incredible but there's a good chunk of the game that felt like a solid-but-not-great JRPG driven forward by how good the universe is.
I hope CS2 doesn't release at the ass end of December too lol.
I'm posting this here to not pollute the GOTY thread with Trails talk, but looking back, 2015 really was the year to shine in the West for the series. I hope this high quality award is a sign of more people being drawn to the series as word of mouth spreads.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Is that really a spoiler?
I could have sworn that was pretty heavily hinted at in the prologue, even if they didn't outright say it. If that's all you're spoiled on, don't worry. That's not really anything big.
Man, I'm playing FC right now and I'm still having trouble getting pulled into the game. Maybe it's the visual style? I'm not a fan of pre rendered sprites. The story has gotten ok I suppose
, but nothing to write home about.
What is it about this game that seems to garner so much love for it? I play a lot of JRPGs and I'm just still having trouble getting into this one despite having played for about 30 hours.
I've already bought Cold Steel and I'm tempted just to jump to that one.
Agate just got poisoned by the dudes in black after Tita ruined our rescue op of her grandpa and now I think I'm going to have to go on a fetch quest.
What is it about this game that seems to garner so much love for it? I play a lot of JRPGs and I'm just still having trouble getting into this one despite having played for about 30 hours.
I've already bought Cold Steel and I'm tempted just to jump to that one.
psynergylover
Member
as some one who has just gotten into the legend of Heroes games; can someone give me the order in which the games follow? chronologically?
Trails in the Sky First Chapter -> Second Chapter -> The Third (<- this one is part epilogue, partly something that sets up upcoming games, with focus on characters other than the two in the first two Trails in the Sky games)
Then Trails to Zero (or Zero no Kiseki) -> Trails to Azure (or Ao no Kiseki) take place in another country sometime after Trails in the Sky (a year or two?)
Then there's Trails of Cold Steel I, II & III, which take place around the same time as Zero & Azure but in yet another country (IIRC it starts a little bit before Zero, but the second part might go past Azure in its timeline?).
Assuming you mean the modern Legend of Heroes games, in Japanese release order:
Sora no Kiseki FC / Trails in the Sky: First Chapter
Sora no Kiseki SC / Trails in the Sky: Second Chapter
Sora no Kiseki The 3rd / Trails in the Sky: The 3rd
Zero no Kiseki / Trails of Zero
Ao no Kiseki / Trails of Azure
Sen no Kiseki / Trails of Cold Steel
Sen no Kiseki II / Trails of Cold Steel II
Sen no Kiseki III / Trails of Cold Steel III (recently announced)
Chronologically Sora comes first, the rest are 1-2 years afterwards generally speaking. There's also a browser game that should be out sometime in 2016 called Akasutki no Kiseki (Trails of... Dawn? Daybreak?). Not sure if canon.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
What they did to Fate of the Fairies should be considered a felony.
This is how I feel about every single Evolution arrangement going all the way back to Zero.
I'm dreading hearing how they mess with 3rd's music, since it has my favorite soundtrack in the series.
They turned Looking Up at the Sky into something totally different and not suitable for field exploration.
Character interactions are above your typical JRPGs or even games in general nowadays. Great characters (might be a bit stereotypical at first but pretty much every least bit significant character in the game is usually more than what their first impression might imply), really good world-building and the stories end up packing a punch if you get through to the end. They do require patience & are a bit more low-key for longer stretches of time than some Final Fantasies that are filled with melodrama and Epic Epicness from the very first moments & throughout the games, but the build up is always worth it by the end. These games really earn their epic moments and due to the excessive setup, world-building and seeing & experiencing the world around you in more detail than a lot of games in general, people usually end up caring for some small town & its people more than in most other games where NPCs are just kinda there to spew a few inconsequential lines.
I'd say that the slower pacing isn't necessarily everyone's cup of tea and you kind of do have to appreciate the smaller moments & interactions between characters, but if you can get into that right mindset where you don't mind the slow-ish build up, then these are truly special games.
Trails in the Sky First Chapter starts off like some (well done) saturday cartoon where two rookie characters set off on an journey that takes them to places. After the first ~3 chapters, it starts to pick up and what was at first a saturday cartoonish adventure where you are chasing stereotypical sky bandits is suddenly a more serious journey filled with political intrigue, espionage and shit hitting the fan with these two characters suddenly kind of having to deal with crap that is way over their head.
I'm interested in these game, sorry if the answer was given on previous page, but I would know if there are big difference between the PC version and the PSP version. I know there are some bugs in these games but I love my PSV so if I can playing them without too many problems, it's good for me.
Palette Swap
Member
It's more an exception than anything else and I haven't played the game yet, but I thought the Unfathomed Force arrange was really good, if not better than the original.
Ugh.
As if I needed any more reasons to despise the Evolution series. Quality-of-life game improvements are welcome, the new artwork and butchered soundtrack? Not so much.
Ao no Kiseki Evo
Probably not going to post again until I finish it and post overall thoughts at this point. But I just gotta say (non-story combat spoilers):
The Zero/Ao Evo music is fantastic. This is a case of "I heard this version first and I'm used to this version, so I don't like the new one" imo. I mean I picked up the Zero original OST after I beat Zero Evo and I've listened to it dozens of times and it sounds pretty similar with some songs being a bit better and other songs being slightly worse. I already picked up the Ao original ost, so after I finish Ao Evo I'll give that a listen but I'm expecting the same reaction.
Probably not going to post again until I finish it and post overall thoughts at this point. But I just gotta say (non-story combat spoilers):
Ao is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy combat-wise. Because of back attacks I've gone through entire dungeons never seeing how enemies even attack since I kill them in 5 seconds, and because of combination crafts & burst mechanic, I've killed entire bosses before they had their first attack. And these Master Arts? I've only just recently mastered the attack one, but I have that on Lloyd on +310 STR and start battle with +50% STR for 6 turns and an EP magic that increases damage by 1.5x? I mean combine that with combination crafts and 200 SP and the amount of damage delivered is just insane. It's fun and all, but I do like having at least a little challenge in my Kiseki games. 3rd was the best for fights, Zero was easy & Ao is the easiest Kiseki yet. It's like Shadow Hearts 2 style of fun but you can get ridiculously overpowered and make crazy easy. Hopefully Sen is at least slightly more challenging again.
Also, one difference (and something I don't like) is in Ao they keep that "enemies on map won't run at you" away from you until like THE VERY END OF THE GAME. So you have to actually fight the enemies on the field this time around most of the time. This may be why I'm finding the game so easy since I normally avoid almost all field encounters in Kiseki games and only fight required quest enemies/bosses and am usually a little underleveled because of it.
Also, one difference (and something I don't like) is in Ao they keep that "enemies on map won't run at you" away from you until like THE VERY END OF THE GAME. So you have to actually fight the enemies on the field this time around most of the time. This may be why I'm finding the game so easy since I normally avoid almost all field encounters in Kiseki games and only fight required quest enemies/bosses and am usually a little underleveled because of it.
The Zero/Ao Evo music is fantastic. This is a case of "I heard this version first and I'm used to this version, so I don't like the new one" imo. I mean I picked up the Zero original OST after I beat Zero Evo and I've listened to it dozens of times and it sounds pretty similar with some songs being a bit better and other songs being slightly worse. I already picked up the Ao original ost, so after I finish Ao Evo I'll give that a listen but I'm expecting the same reaction.
BassForever
Member
As someone else said, the games are slow taking a lot of time to establish the world and characters before shit hits the fan. You're getting close to the end of FC so I'd suggest just sticking with for the last dozen or so hours the game has. Cold Steel is also a slow burn game like FC where things don't start getting big around the same length of time it does in FC.
Also how many jrpgs have ongoing story arcs for almost every random npc that can carry over across multiple games?
Huh. That's interesting about NPCs because I didn't realize that. I honestly think it would help if the visuals were different. I just have trouble dealing with prerendered sprites and my characters' appearances always remaining the same. Takes a bit of the fun out.
I also like what I hear about Cold Steel a lot. What with it's Persona-esque character relations and what not. What's so weird is that when I was younger I was all about slow burns in games. It could be that I'm older and don't have as much time on my hands to delve into the world building. If I'm that close to the end though I might as well finish it.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
That's definitely one of the worst offenders. They completely destroyed that song.
Of the few others I listened to, Silver Will was also pretty bad.