BassForever
Member
I've watched the sen 2 op video every day for weeks now :X I need this game asap
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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Young Magus
Junior Member
I'm in the same boat.
And started Zero Evo the other day, was able to understand a good amount of the story and character dialogue so I think Im gonna be alright
.Just hope that I can go back to the 3rd mildly spoil free if I finish this+ao
I'm in the same boat.
And started Zero Evo the other day, was able to understand a good amount of the story and character dialogue so I think Im gonna be alright
Just hope that I can go back to the 3rd mildly spoil free if I finish this+ao
Zero/Ao don't really spoil 3rd outside of one thing that I can thing of. It's more that you'll get more out of Zero/Ao if you've played 3rd first since 3rd sets up Crossbell a bit. Honestly, should be fine.
Young Magus
Junior Member
Sen no Kiseki 2
Couple of other thoughts early on, one is like I mentioned I really, really like that they're opening up the connectors and creating a real walkable world map. This was one of my biggest issues taking away from world cohesion in Sen 1 and making it feel piecemeal. Now it actually feels like a real world that you're getting to explore. Feels like an adventure!
But the lack of a world map is still really lame. In Liberl & Crossbell I loved being able to bring up the world map at anytime and see where I am in relation to the country. It added a lot and one of the biggest draws of the Kiseki franchise is creating a living breathing country to explore. In Sen, at this point I've just printed out the map of Erebonia that Falcom put up in Sen 1 and use that to cross-reference where I am at anytime. I saw some comments online that the running theory is Falcom is holding off on giving an Erebonia map until Sen 3 because they don't want to reveal yet the western side of Erebonia that Sen 3 may cover. If that's true and in Sen 3 we got a "hit a button - see a world map", I'll be happy. Maybe they can also bring Buses back in Sen 3 because I thought more about the lack of fast travel (although appreciate Sen 2 letting you fast travel back and forth after quest events), and I think Zero's buses were fair. You still had to use fields but once you got somewhere you could just take a bus back instead of running back across the fields again. Would like to see Sen 3 re-include that.
Also the one other thing Sen is lacking from Crossbell is the support attacks, which is weird because you still have support characters in your party and you can switch them in instantly so it shouldn't really be a loading issue of having extra character models. Even if it wasn't super important, I really liked how your support characters could appear on the turn queue and jump in with a useful attack or support. I thought it added a lot in terms of a team party. Not sure why they ditched it. But would like it back for Sen 3.
Oh and I didn't realize at first the Overattack (aka Ao's Burst) mechanic is really nerfed from Ao just like the combo crafts -> link rush. Having the Overattack only work for 2 characters for 1.5 turns is really nerfed compared to the absolutely insane Ao Burst mechanic instantly advancing all of your cast and letting them instant spell cast and critical attack for like 10 attacks in a run. Then again Ao just gave you way too many way too strong toys to play with and was probably the easiest rpg in a long while. So I understand why they had to nerf all the cool systems from Ao, but it's still a little ;_;
The team chests are kind of a fun in a puzzle way of figuring out how to win a monster chest with only two specific characters. I enjoy everything that adds a challenge to the game, so this is a plus.
Most of all Sen 2, about 7 hours in so far just feels like an adventure again, so it's great. Sora FC felt like an adventure, Sora SC felt like an adventure, 3rd was a dungeon crawler with a good story, Zero felt like an adventure, Ao felt like an adventure, Sen 1 felt like a school & town simulator. So Sen 2 being an adventure again makes it feel like what Kiseki is supposed to be, so it's good stuff. I'll admit that a lot of it works because Sen 1 set up the locations, characters and NPCs so there's already been a lot of satisfying nostalgia and payoff, but so did Sora FC and Zero and those were both able to do that stuff while still giving the player an adventure to go on.
Couple of other thoughts early on, one is like I mentioned I really, really like that they're opening up the connectors and creating a real walkable world map. This was one of my biggest issues taking away from world cohesion in Sen 1 and making it feel piecemeal. Now it actually feels like a real world that you're getting to explore. Feels like an adventure!
But the lack of a world map is still really lame. In Liberl & Crossbell I loved being able to bring up the world map at anytime and see where I am in relation to the country. It added a lot and one of the biggest draws of the Kiseki franchise is creating a living breathing country to explore. In Sen, at this point I've just printed out the map of Erebonia that Falcom put up in Sen 1 and use that to cross-reference where I am at anytime. I saw some comments online that the running theory is Falcom is holding off on giving an Erebonia map until Sen 3 because they don't want to reveal yet the western side of Erebonia that Sen 3 may cover. If that's true and in Sen 3 we got a "hit a button - see a world map", I'll be happy. Maybe they can also bring Buses back in Sen 3 because I thought more about the lack of fast travel (although appreciate Sen 2 letting you fast travel back and forth after quest events), and I think Zero's buses were fair. You still had to use fields but once you got somewhere you could just take a bus back instead of running back across the fields again. Would like to see Sen 3 re-include that.
Also the one other thing Sen is lacking from Crossbell is the support attacks, which is weird because you still have support characters in your party and you can switch them in instantly so it shouldn't really be a loading issue of having extra character models. Even if it wasn't super important, I really liked how your support characters could appear on the turn queue and jump in with a useful attack or support. I thought it added a lot in terms of a team party. Not sure why they ditched it. But would like it back for Sen 3.
Oh and I didn't realize at first the Overattack (aka Ao's Burst) mechanic is really nerfed from Ao just like the combo crafts -> link rush. Having the Overattack only work for 2 characters for 1.5 turns is really nerfed compared to the absolutely insane Ao Burst mechanic instantly advancing all of your cast and letting them instant spell cast and critical attack for like 10 attacks in a run. Then again Ao just gave you way too many way too strong toys to play with and was probably the easiest rpg in a long while. So I understand why they had to nerf all the cool systems from Ao, but it's still a little ;_;
The team chests are kind of a fun in a puzzle way of figuring out how to win a monster chest with only two specific characters. I enjoy everything that adds a challenge to the game, so this is a plus.
Most of all Sen 2, about 7 hours in so far just feels like an adventure again, so it's great. Sora FC felt like an adventure, Sora SC felt like an adventure, 3rd was a dungeon crawler with a good story, Zero felt like an adventure, Ao felt like an adventure, Sen 1 felt like a school & town simulator. So Sen 2 being an adventure again makes it feel like what Kiseki is supposed to be, so it's good stuff. I'll admit that a lot of it works because Sen 1 set up the locations, characters and NPCs so there's already been a lot of satisfying nostalgia and payoff, but so did Sora FC and Zero and those were both able to do that stuff while still giving the player an adventure to go on.
So I can go back to the 3rd post crossbell
Absolutely. Although the Erebonia/Crossbell setup optional story doors may be a lot less interesting since you've already played the games. But the main Kevin plot will be just as good.
Young Magus
Junior Member
Those doors can serve as origin/prequel stories just fine correct?
And the Kevin plot had me sold ever since early parts of SC. Loved his character, the fact that his design kinda reminds me of Vash and
how he acted in the ending
kubricks
Member
I didn't play Ao but I though the overrise in Sen 2 is already very OP lol. Being able to insta-cast
forbidden
Team chest as a concept is ok, but most of the time it just boils down to getting the right team to open it and making sure everyone has all the attack quartz and 200CP. Those fights with extra AP is a lot more interesting in comparison.
Overall I like the game, hope Sen 3 is less Rean-centric. More attention to his classmate would be great.
The over-rise type mechanic (burst) in Ao does this:
1) Instantly moves your entire party to the top of the queue
2) Let's everyone have 2-3 turns each before the enemy can have a turn (so 4 characters x 2-3 turns = ~10 turns of Bursting)
3) Instant casting of any spell (I think maybe at 0 EP cost)
4) I think you also recover a lot of CP/HP/EP during it.
So you can do this:
S-Craft
S-Craft
S-Craft
BURST
10 or so queue turns of everything unleashing ultimate magic attacks
probably finish it with enough CP to do more S-Crafts again
That basically kills the final dungeon bosses in a single burst on normal difficulty or gets them really close to death before they've even had 1 attack turn. It's insanely broken. Heck of a lot of fun though!
Artes during burst do cost EP and you only recover CP. Over-Rise is actually more broken since it does pretty much the same thing but you can now use it anywhere and it builds up faster. There's a trick to do 500% full powered s-craft combined with overrise can pretty much destroy anything before it can get turns.
Shouta
Member
I did mention to you in the game was more or less two halves of one game rather than two halves of the story, lol.
Just to comment on your last part but more in general,
Up until Sen 1, they integrated the character content and the story into the flow of the main scenario because that's how it's done, usually. It makes sense to do so. Sora FC being their first game, they tried it and used a rotating cast to introduce things slowly, moving a bit at a time. You're always in motion though and that's why it feels like an adventure.. As a result though, FC is seen as a slowburn. Even in SC, they're still setting the stage for the first half just continuing that, heh. The end run was great though which was the trade-off.
With Zero though, they learned their lesson from Sora and limited the players in the story, the 4 main SSS members and a handful of support characters for Zero. They then expanded it in Ao after establishing those characters. The fewer the characters, the better their style worked as you had time to touch on everyone and they were always a consistent part of the party. They also amped up the individual chapters making them individual roller coaster rides by starting quiet. It didn't help Dudley though...
For Sen 1, they couldn't do either of these as is, I think. With he size of the cast and how big of a place Erebonia is, they couldn't simply take the approach that FC did because it'd end up being too long trying to do it just like that. Limiting the cast like Zero did was out of the question for the same reasons. They had to take a different approach to it.
I think this is where the Bonding Events/Social Link system came into play. I don't think it was simply a matter of them adding it to capture the crowd that likes the system though it's definitely a part of it. I think that they felt that using the system removed some of the burden the main scenario had to bear to develop these character's personalities. Integrating development into plot requires you to slow down what's happening and build a situation where it would make sense to bring this character development aspect in. I think they felt that they just couldn't do that and still keep the game moving at a decent pace. These bonding events allowed them to explore these aspects for the most part. They kept certain key aspects of the characters in the field assignments but the details got moved to Bonding to not slow down the happenings in each chapter too much.
In addition to that, they put more energy into setting that stage properly in Sen 1 so that they didn't spend as much time in Sen 2 doing it. The result is that Sen 2 is basically a game long end run for most of it and it's a helluva ride. I think it has more than enough adventure that you're looking for if you didn't feel Sen 1 was that, lol.
More in general, I want to address Sen 2 concerns more but I think I would need to get into details to explain. I do think that like some of the complaints I hear about Sen 2 (and Sen 1) are really ones that need to be fixed by Falcom. Some I feel like are from what folks expect a Kiseki game should be rather than actually evaluating that aspect on its own terms. Then others are just not someone's personal preference at all. It's just so tough to discuss without getting into spoiler territory. =(
The bonding social link for character development is a big problem for a game like this though, since 95% of players will only play the game once, and therefore miss 50% of the social link events, which hurts the character development significantly. It was a bad way to handle it and hopefully they've learned from their mistakes.
If they want to develop the characters in Bonding Events, why would whey set limit to the events? You can get all the social links to 10 in Persona in one playthrough, but in Sen 1 and Sen 2, you have to choose, and that sucks. Many characters feel like strangers to me in the end because I didn't see their bond event, and the game was not good enough to make me play a second time. Also, the fact that most event are badly written really didn't help with the character development.
Falcom was stupid to ride the military-school-harem-simulator wave that has plagued the anime, light-novel, and videogame industry in Japan these years. Especially that step sister, I know Japaneses have a special thing for sister in anime and such, but this one was so off the chart. Those who play the localized version are blessed, they don't have to listen to that horrendous JP VA for that character. Every time I heard the word "Onii-Sama", I just wanted to break something. Sen I and Sen II as a whole felt like a bad anime, like the one I just saw, “Undefeated Bahamut Chronicle”.
It happened to also have mechs and a sister in it
And I hate Crow to this day. After what he did at the end of Sen I, Class VII somehow reached the consensus that he was a good guy and they had to bring him back despite the fact that he basically set the whole country on fire. It was amusing how little Crow interacted with the whole class (especially if you didn't spend bonding event with him) yet at the end of Sen II, his death was such a big deal. That scene was so cringe-worthy that after one and a half year I still feel awkward when I think of it.
The narrative of war is the shallowest I've seen in years. It baffled me that after depicting the complex political struggle so well in Ao, Falcom dropped the ball this hard. Honestly the revolt was led by such a bunch of brainless assholes that it surprised me that it could last over an hour. Class VII claimed they are neutral, but I think the revolts would like to have a word with that since Class VII certainly never acted neutral throughout Sen II. To give Class VII a proper reason to kick some brainless-aristocratic-asses, the story constantly let some people that were important to the members of Class VII be kidnapped or threatened to the point that it got repetitive and laughable. Vita was also disappointing, never thought an angis would be so simple-minded.
And there were those hp-lock battles. So depressing! I remember beating Leonhardt in SC, and it was rewarding. Ao had some good fight too. In Sen II, you can't beat shit! Every time you thought you have made progression, it turned out the boss was just teasing you, and there was always someone jumping in to save the day....for fucking six times!
Everything just suddenly turned good after the final boss. I like the Crossbell section very much. Thanks to that, or else I would just drop the series.
Se7enSword
Banned
They say 73.6% of all statistics are made up, and this is one such instance!
If you want to know how many people don't miss out on social links and stuff, just look at the trophy data for a better measurement. Just because you're not in favor of it, doesn't mean others don;t like it, and doesn't mean everyone shares your opinion.
BassForever
Member
I think his point is in Cold Steel 1 (and I persume 2) each bonding event is exclusive to the day it's available during unlike a Persona where the social links and plot progression were for the most part mutually exclusive. This is further compounded by the fact all the bonding events happen regardless of if Rean attends or not so the characters will occasionally make references to things the player couldn't see but the game arbitrarily limits your bonding points on a first run. Yes you can s/l to view all the bonding events in one day so the player knows all the developments but you're still left with an incomplete experience when you saw something but the next scene Rean wishes he could have gone or could have helped. This issue seems like it could be doubly as frustrating in cold steel 2 where the roster of playable characters nearly triples and if most of them are bondable you'll miss a lot of character development playing the game as designed.
And if we're looking at statistics after Alisha in cs1 for the bonding event trophy the numbers drop like a rock because most people will only play the game the one time and are likely to pick the "canon" option.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I'm playing Trails in the sky on PC. What is the best way to max out the graphics?
While I enjoyed Sen, I did it find it the weakest entry of the series thus far. I felt the bonding even system combined with the limits meant character development was the weakest we've had. Not only are you forced to miss some of them, half of them didn't even feel relevant and just there for fun. But the bolded is my main reason. I loved the sense of discovery and adventure in the other games. I didn't like Sen's school setting and all and the whole game felt incredibly restrictive and formulaic.
Hearing that the feel of adventure is back in Sen 2 is really good to hear!
Sen 2 spoilers
This was also a big complaint from me. Crow joins your class super-late in CS1, doesn't really bond or do much of importance with you, and then suddenly he's our closest friend who we must save! We basically beat ourselves up silly for him. It felt really unnatural. The game constantly frames the fight between you and Crow (creating a 20 hour effort of us chasing down Zemurian stone just so I can get a sword to fight him with, only for Vita to show up at the end and say lol nice try), but there's nothing to prove and nothing of worth to fight over since the result is going to end badly for Crow even if you try to friendly it up. In fact it's because it can only end badly for Crow that it made his death really the only clean way he could go out without making the story between Rean and him even more awkward.
It's only way later in the game that it becomes more about rescuing Crow for the second years. If that's the case, it should've been framed that way from the start! Because those were the best emotional scenes in the game because Crow actually matters to these people.
On a side note, I can't believe I got sandbagged by a pet pigeon. Falcom stepping up their game.
Should be a recommended "High" setting in the config. Game doesn't work with downsamplers because it's DX8.
Shouta
Member
But players can check out all the character stuff by saving and reloading during these free days to see all the character information. The only one you wouldn't be able to see is the final event at the end of the game but everything else is date specific rather than linked to progression in bond as I recall. It's been awhile since I played Sen 1 and Sen 2 now but I'm almost sure that's how they did it because they wanted to show progression of time.
I mean, you do it with SRW. You played all the routes at the same time rather than do a single run and then go back. So I don't see why this is an issue. If a player is interested in all the characters then they can see most of the events. If they aren't, they can see only choose to see the characters they prefer. There's some freedom for the player to decide rather than dictate it for everyone.
That's a pretty solid complaint but even Zero/Ao had limited number of times you could do bonding events in that game as well. So it's not really unexpected. In addition, the type of content within the bonding events is mostly supplement to the development found in the main scenario. It's meant to round them out more or less. So at its core, it's not all that different from what we've seen before, just made into a formal system more than anything.
I think the content is fine and in line with what would have been put into random spots in the other games. Nothing quite like seeing Laura is a Dogi fan.
Falcom was already on that campus train when they did it in Sora. I might be remembering wrong but I recall them mentioning a military academy somewhere in 3rd as well So I'm pretty sure they've been planning it for awhile, heh. They also had mechs since Sora FC and SC! Zero and Ao even had the harem simulator already and did it even worse with a canon harem king, lol.
Right. That's why I'm trying to separate reasons because some are a matter of preference rather than an actual issue with the game itself. Not liking bonding events is fine but saying it's bad because it's not what you expect or what you want, is a whole different thing.
That's kind of the heart of the issue with Sen to me, Sen 1 in particular. It's a departure from how they've done things in 5 previous games (or 2 for English releases) and because it's not what folks expected or want, it doesn't get a fair shake. There are definitely issues but I feel like those get muddied with preferences pretty often. As an example, not liking Alisa because she's the Ojou-sama Tsundere archetype is one thing but saying he's a bad character is totally wtf when it's very clear she changes a ton even in just Sen 1.
I feel like that's kind of the beauty of the bond points & system and an overall plus to the game. It means the game world itself doesn't revolve around Rean. These characters have their own lives and their own actions that they take regardless of the player's input despite being so close.
It's one of the things I feel is greatly underappreciated about Sen 1. Its usage of time, the school itself, and events that happen without the player being someone that is a major party in it really makes the setting and characters feel alive. It's really taking advantage of the medium while maintaining the story-centric heart of it all. I think one of the coolest details I got in the game was, if I remember correctly, Fie did score awful on her exams early in the game. Later on though, you can see her scores had improved and you find out that Emma and Alisa were tutoring her in the background to help her improve on that front. Then there's seeing stuff like seeing the fencing club storyline unfold throughout the game etc.
Persona doesn't do nearly as well as I wanted it to in this area specifically. S.Links only improve when you interact with that character and there's really not that much going on at the school itself most of the time outside of that.
Sen 2 spoilers ahoy.
I don't really agree.
I think Crow spends more than enough time with the cast for them to consider him one of their own. It's true that his time with Class VII directly isn't all that long and the number of events that you see up front is somewhat limited, but he was with them as a senior student since the beginning of the game and he does enough in the background that he's built a rapport with Class VII beyond just Rean. Even Sara said she would have liked to share a drink with him. ;_;
Where I do agree though is that
I feel that they could increased the back and forth in Sen 2 to better set solidify the conflict of trying to bring him back. I think they setup a good reason to bring him back but didn't follow up and give good reasons why he should stop. I feel like it's kind of a problem with a lot of stories with a traitor that goes to the dark side and they try to redeem them, see Naruto, lol. It's a great conflict but isn't fleshed out enough to be satisfying.
It's not just about that because they had their own reasons too. It's just an additional motivator. That also makes
the end of the game so rough though. ;_; they never get to see him again. I want some shenanigans in Sen III! Falcom, plz
Hey! It's much more elegant than that! It's a
a cockatoo
I don't think your average game player does this. And so they miss out on a lot of the character development and get an unsatisfying story with underdeveloped characters. How does that help anyone? Why not just let players see all of them?
Because Falcom does these things to reward the players curious about additional lore. There's an endgame relationship scene in another game that actually gives you a TON of lore information.
There have been a lot of people complaining about this information being locked behind the bond scene, but at the same time- if you're not digging through all of the characters, various lore events are probably not going to be as big of an interest to you as it would be to those who are trying to dig into everything for clues left and right.
This kind of player is the one that's rewarded with those scenes, and Falcom's 100% aware of those people, and I think it's their way to show appreciation to those fans.
Falcom has done things for fans: for example, Ys vs Sora no Kiseki was a giant apology for Kondo talking about, in one interview, about playing with the idea of multiplayer in Ys Seven- but when they couldn't implement it, they found a way to apologize for letting people down. Falcom rewarding their big fans is not a new thing.
It's not additional lore though. These aren't neat little lore pieces behind hidden quests and such. These are "core character develop for the main cast in order to make the main storyline for the game work".
Fwiw, I'm just arguing on other people's behalf because it's a sensible argument and Falcom made a bad decision with it. I don't really care personally because the bonding scenes I saw in Sen 1 were mostly filler and didn't add jack shit to the characters and certainly not anything to the story or lore. But I can understand how a few face to face conversations with an individual character can make people care more about them in the overall plot.
My take is more that the entire school system should have been axed and burnt in a dumpster because it was an uninteresting way to develop characters compared to developing them as they go. The town story line developments in Sen 1 weren't bad, but that should've been the whole game. With the school just being a dungeon crawler if anything.
I also don't really think Falcom is infallible or anything even though I like them and like supporting them as a company. Some of the Ys games recently suck for instance and it's because Falcom sometimes makes bad decisions that hurt their games. To me, Sen 1 was a big misstep for the Kiseki series, but even in this case it seems more evident of development problems caused by their first step into big budget 3d rpg series than design.
Shouta
Member
But the same can be said for folks that don't want to sit through characters they don't like or for folks that prefer to play the role of the MC a bit more and choose only one character to follow. Forcing them to see it all or not giving them the option to choose who they interact with negatively affects their experience.
I think Bond Events is the wrong target for grievances especially because it was used in Zero and Ao without as much of a problem.
It's much more about Falcom developing the characters in a way that is not always directed at the player and, in some cases, not directly a part of the main scenario itself, I think. It's a huge departure from other Kiseki games and I don't think a lot of people critique it from that viewpoint.
To me it worked great, especially from a world building perspective. It really gets me invested in it all. It's what I liked about the previous games taken to the next level.
Right. I definitely think Falcom has been rewarding players that have really jumped into the lore.
Sen 1 is also sort of built for folks invested in that as well. There are people that talk to all of the NPCs to see what they say just for the hell of it. Sen 1 rewards those folks by giving many of the NOCs their own story even if they aren't directly involved in the scenario and even included PCs in that mix.
There's nothing wrong with the campus setting, it's the way it is presented: a trash-tier light-novel. All the characters are some stereotype-stock-characters from some of the worst light-novels. I don't even mind harem (or else I'd rage quit P4), just don't give me a harem I've seen a hundred times. Remember how Rean met Alisa at first? That was a last-decade harem-light-novel opening you were looking at. And that sister, do we really need that?
and the princess as well.
The fact that the academy appeared in 3rd doesn't prove anything. The military-school-harem thing goes way back to 2007, maybe it was a new thing back then so they put it into the timeline, but to carry it out in 2014 is still stupid.
I mean that's a real easy fix. For people that don't care about the other characters, have it so that you can quit the social part by going back to the dorm/schoolhouse at any time. Just like Persona and going back to your house to move to the next day.
It feels intentionally limiting for no reason. It annoys casual fans, tells the hardcore to save/reload; how on earth is that preferable than just designing a free, open system with choice?
Shouta
Member
I get the complaints about starting with stereotypes but that can be said for a lot of things, even other Kiseki games. It's just a downward spiral if we want to argue along those lines. It's ultimately a matter of whether or not they do something beyond it that's important. I think that's something they do pretty well especially in light of tropes that have been more prominent recently. I mean agree with Elise being terrible because all she is is that terrible trope but characters like Alisa? She is nowhere even close to the trope she starts off with, even at the end of Sen 1.
I think Bebpo was implying dumping Bond Events period and just doing it within the main scenario. That's I get from other comments about Sen's systems as well, more or less. Why isn't it like FC and SC? Etc.
I'm fine with the system as is because it's been used for ages in other games and even in other Kiseki games. I'd be OK if they removed the limits as well to open it up.
I agree that some of them get better at the end of Sen I, Alisa particularly, and that's why I like Sen I way more than Sen II. In Sen I there was still development, while in Sen II they all just sit back and wait to be romanced.
Some of Sen II's bond events didn't even make sense to me. It was like "let's just make some physical contact and call it a day."
And that's just females, the males ones were just so bland. I remember doing bonding events of Elliot and Jusis , but I can't remember what I did with them (which is a shame because I really liked those two). Also, who is this guy? I literally forgot his name in the final dungeon.
To be fair underdeveloped main cast characters isn't a new thing for Kiseki. In Ao,
has about as much development as the Sen cast and is a fairly shallow character compared to the other party members. And Kevin in SC, but then 3rd fixed that. Maybe Sen III will fix the remaining character complaints that people still have about the cast after Sen 2?
Noel Seeker
You mean the chapter that Alisa completely stole the show?
Also, I'm mainly complaining about Sen II.
Remember the scene in which Rean and Alisa lie on the grassland and watch the stars? I was like "Hm? Isn't it suppose to be Gaius' chapter?"
Well, in previous games they have successfully established so many memorable characters that even if one or two of them feel flat, it doesn't affect the whole impression. In Sen I and Sen II, however, none of them particularly stands out.
I guess you can say Emma plays a major role in Sen II but that's more about her ability rather than her personality.
BassForever
Member
Because Gaius is boring and does nothing the rest of the game (I like Gaius, but that'll be your average answer)
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I don't think Gaius is forgettable, but he's definitely a bit flat as a character. "Something something something the winds something the goddess something"
It doesn't help that he's in your party for the smallest amount of time of any character in the game.
It doesn't help that he's in your party for the smallest amount of time of any character in the game.
I remember reading Japanese reviews of Sen 1 and 2 last week (not shitty Amazon reviews, but general game reviews on fan sites and such), and one of the reviews mentioned that "Gaius mentions wind all the time, but all he does is sail out of my memory" or something like that hahaha
On a related note, a lot of reviews and comments about the good and bad parts of the games tends to line up pretty much exactly what people here have posted so far, so I see that reception is fairly consistent on all parts of the globe.
On a related note, a lot of reviews and comments about the good and bad parts of the games tends to line up pretty much exactly what people here have posted so far, so I see that reception is fairly consistent on all parts of the globe.
Shouta
Member
I agree that some of them get better at the end of Sen I, Alisa particularly, and that's why I like Sen I way more than Sen II. In Sen I there was still development, while in Sen II they all just sit back and wait to be romanced.Some of Sen II's bond events didn't even make sense to me. It was like "let's just make some physical contact and call it a day."
And that's just females, the males ones were just so bland. I remember doing bonding events of Elliot and Jusis , but I can't remember what I did with them (which is a shame because I really liked those two). Also, who is this guy? I literally forgot his name in the final dungeon.
I really like the male characters in Sen but I don't think they stand out quite as much as other male chars in Kiseki games because their designs don't have a signature element that makes them stand out immediately. Their positions within the group also require a bit more explanation than other characters too.
That character has way less than development then the Sen cast. Another one that's similar is
Alex Dudley
On that note, a complaint with Sen II was also prevalent with Ao as well where
Ellie and Tio are basically just there for most of the game without anything really going on for them other than their Bond Events, lol
It's not really hard to considering he gets so little time throughout the game and he doesn't have an actual arc to go through like the other characters.
Gaius is, by the time we see him in Sen, already more or less a complete character. He's even considered an adult in his homeland as I recall, Which is sort of the weird thing about having him part of the cast. I feel like he and his homeland will be much more important in a later game than he is in Sen.
Ellie is just there to explain political stuff and Tio is there for the internet mumbo jumbo. They're pretty active in the story in order to explain stuff. Also, there're side quests that fleshes out their characters which sen 2 lacks.
Personally, I think Gaius' time to shine will be in Sen III in the form of (The 3rd, Cold Steel and Cold Steel II spoilers)
I agree on Elie, though. You'd almost think that she's a mere (Ao spoiler)
the manifestation of a Stigma. He is taught and still looked after by a Dominion, and as we have seen with a previous case Dominion are able to sense the manifestation of a Stigma beforehand. If Gaius needs a traumatic push in order to do so, a Calvard invasion of Erebonia via the Nord (seeing the road parallel to the Wind Cave Shrine leads to Calvard) and destruction of his furusato in the process should be enough to trigger him. There's more evidence, though; Yotaka did a write-up on the Kiseki Crack site.
I agree on Elie, though. You'd almost think that she's a mere (Ao spoiler)
plot device to have the Gralsritter involved in Crossbell through her study abroad in Arteria.
IDK how many people touched NG+, but there is an option present to give max bonding points where available. I didn't choose it because I was doing a platinum run of Sen I for my second playthrough, but i'd assume it'd give you the ability to see all the events, or most, in one run. When I do my third run before Sen II hits later this year i'll probably have that active.
What was that One Punch Man quote...?
"I seek not defense, but absolute destructive power."
Why have an evasion tank when you can have a Laura "I take off 75% of the boss' HP with my first max S-craft" Arseid?
I did that and turned Emma into a magic murder machine, thanks to Criminal, that just plowed through enemies mercilessly.
No, I used Fie. 100% evasion and higher speed, better than Gaius, plus Gaius' damage output was not that impressive. To be honest, everyone in Sen II was too OP (except Alisa perhaps).
And I love short hair girls.
I don't think that works
for some of the side bosses
I challenged those hidden bosses early to get all the OP magics, Laura was not that impressive back then (still OP as fuck though).
The Silver
Member
What do people mean when they say TITS 3 is a dungeon crawler? Is there no traveling around to different towns and stuff?
Short answer, no.
Long answer, yes, but not the way you think it is.
It's not suppose to be as important as the first two chapters, and you will be fine if you just skip it and wait for Zero and Ao, but your party is larger than ever in 3rd so you might enjoy the combat.
Evasion tank, or once properly set-up he can maintain an infinite cycle of Chrono Bursts, solo-ing even the hardest battle in the game on NG+.
It's quite an unique game in that regard. It re-purposes the different towns and stuff as dungeons themselves.
The worst thing about Cold Steel's bonding stuff is really just the Final Bonding Events. It's just such a huge hassle to get all of those and there's no way people will just figure out those requirements on their own. There were people in the OT who had only fulfilled the conditions for them for, like, one person in their first playthrough and that's a shame because, while they aren't life-alteringly awesome, they do give a kind of nice "mid-game" (if we consider CSI & CSII to be a single game cut in half) look at where each character is at the middle point of the story. They are nice little talks showing how much most of them have grown from when we first met them. Surprisingly Machias probably had one of the better ones and actually made him seem like a pretty tolerable or even likable person!
Otherwise I didn't really mind the bonding stuff, in retrospect. It was mostly just the fact that the requirements for the FBEs were so strict that kind of made it more annoying as a mechanic since you couldn't choose who you wanted but had to do an "optimal" route (for the FBEs and trophies/Platinum). All in all there were enough points & events that if you did the "mandatory" ones (to get Character notes) & didn't always just follow the same few characters otherwise when you had left-over points to use as you wanted, you'd still get 2-3 bonding events with each main cast character and those are enough to give show more of them outside the group dynamics.
Otherwise I didn't really mind the bonding stuff, in retrospect. It was mostly just the fact that the requirements for the FBEs were so strict that kind of made it more annoying as a mechanic since you couldn't choose who you wanted but had to do an "optimal" route (for the FBEs and trophies/Platinum). All in all there were enough points & events that if you did the "mandatory" ones (to get Character notes) & didn't always just follow the same few characters otherwise when you had left-over points to use as you wanted, you'd still get 2-3 bonding events with each main cast character and those are enough to give show more of them outside the group dynamics.
The Silver
Member
I don't mind dungeon crawlers, I love me some Strange Journey, I just want to know what the deal is here.
Major spoiler for 3rd, although I don't think it matters.
The whole story takes place in a kind of "other-dimension-world". So you should expect a big dungeon consisting of many corridors and bosses. No actual towns in a common RPG's sense. You are rewarded with bits of information about the past and the future of the whole saga. Some may say they are important, I don't think so, which is why I gave it up in the middle.
Actually, the whole game is just an excuse to spend more time with those beloved characters before the focus of the story move to a totally different location with a new cast.
I think the bits of information Aters mentions are crucial for the series as a whole, and play a larger part in the games that follow than FC/SC. The 3rd was also the game were I found the battle system enjoyable for the first time.
The Silver
Member
ok thanks I see what it's about now