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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Sen no Kiseki was tied up in a ton of development problems. Falcom released a couple of gameplay videos, showed a bit of it off, then showed most of the opening. That's it.
This is probably because they were too busy trying to fix the insane loading problem after going gold on the game. Kondo has even confirmed that they did have the option to delay the game, but they chose to go into the mastering process anyway, and focus on work to get the game patched within a week or two of launch.
Besides, if they missed that release date, the game would not have released in that fiscal year at all.
To add to this, though, Falcom generally won't release a trailer until a month or two before a game is set to launch.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
So hey, I finally had my party wiped for the first time some 50+ hours into CS1 (
boss in Ch5). After mowing down every enemy, even bosses and mini-bosses, without ever being in danger.
Guess it's about time. I really feel like I should have played on Hard regardless of what people say, this is ridiculous. Not being even close to Game Over until 50 hours into the game? C'mon.
Nosferatu
Guess it's about time. I really feel like I should have played on Hard regardless of what people say, this is ridiculous. Not being even close to Game Over until 50 hours into the game? C'mon.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Cold Steel games definitely require Nightmare for the appropriate level of challenge. I went for Hard on CS2 and really regretted not choosing Nightmare. The challenge level is just too low on the lower difficulties.
CS1 on Normal only had like three fights that really challenged me.
thestopsign
Member
I've been playing through SC for the past few weeks and my whole fear of the game has just been realized for now. SC Chapter 6 spoilers:
I really enjoy almost everything about it except for the Estelle chasing Joshua angle. It makes me cringe harder than anything considering they basically grew up brother and sister for years, it's like a step-brother/step-sister porno realized in video game form.
Anyways I am in Chapter 6 and have just escaped the Glorious and they had that bullshit kissing scene where Joshua suddenly changes character instantly. I hope they don't fully go down this path, I know it can play out in other ways and I hope it does. It doesn't help that Estelle is my least favorite character in the game, I love all the side characters and would be using them instead of her in most situations if I could.
Anyways I am in Chapter 6 and have just escaped the Glorious and they had that bullshit kissing scene where Joshua suddenly changes character instantly. I hope they don't fully go down this path, I know it can play out in other ways and I hope it does. It doesn't help that Estelle is my least favorite character in the game, I love all the side characters and would be using them instead of her in most situations if I could.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
tracymorgan.gif
You're missing a ton of subtlety in the previous 100 hours here. That's how I'll put it.
thestopsign
Member
No I'm not. I was hoping they weren't going to do it or that it was a misdirection. I was actively rooting against that relationship from moment one of the first game.
Young Magus
Junior Member
Ys VIII did it?? I wouldn't know haven't finished it yet.
I know, I posted in this very OT after I beated Zero that the Ao trailer made me hop on it after mere hours of beating Zero.
Nightengale
Member
What I want :
Platform confirmation
An ingame screenshot to illustrate quality of improvement
Info to let us know who's the MC
Character art for Rean, Alisa, Jusis, Fie, Alfin, Olivier and my hopeful old cast returnee Schera
Platform confirmation
An ingame screenshot to illustrate quality of improvement
Info to let us know who's the MC
Character art for Rean, Alisa, Jusis, Fie, Alfin, Olivier and my hopeful old cast returnee Schera
Scrooge McDuck
Member
[Trails in the Sky SC spoilers]
Estelle and Joshua have only known each other for five years. That is a lot shorter than the usual "childhood" friends scenario and not even 1/3 of their lifetime. Not to mention it was love at first sight, too...
Ao no Kiseki Final Chapters - Part 3 - FINAL
So this ends the last writeup of Ao no Kiseki, otherwise known in the future as Trails to the Azure.
Masterpiece. Though, I think I prefer Zero's style of presentation, even though Ao has way more stuff happening.
If I had played this before I played Cold Steel 1 & 2 I would've appreciated more references, but I think I would've been doubly pissed at CS1 and CS2's plot progression being pretty much entirely spoiled, with very little extra to make up for it.
Zero and Ao really do have the best sidequests, with a great characters and ensemble cast sharing top-tier dialogue with one another. Crossbell really does feel like the zenith of what a Kiseki game should be, which is to make it feel like you're in a moving breathing world that changes with every major step, and characters that are so well threaded into the narrative that you feel like you are always part of that moving world.
Do I have criticisms... yes, absolutely. But in the face of what I enjoyed, not a problem.
So this ends the last writeup of Ao no Kiseki, otherwise known in the future as Trails to the Azure.
One thing I forgot to mention from last time was the whole bonding system that I had been working on up to that point. I hadn't really followed a guide but I tried my best to spend a decent amount of time with everyone. Little did I know that this system was really strict (much more strict than Cold Steel 2) and I only unlocked Rixia and Tio's scenes (So many tears... ;_
. I enjoyed both scenes from reloading (Rixia's scene is especially illuminating) but I know there's a ton more I missed. I really don't like these incredibly limiting systems that lock away important backstory, I feel like I missed so much. I see this is where this bad habit of limiting story came from for the Steel series. I don't understand why it's so hard to just incorporate these important scenes during the course of natural gameplay like in Sky instead of leeringly locking them away behind points. Imagine if you had to unlock Agate's bonding points to see his actual backstory in SC; that would be really damn stupid.
But enough about that. It's time to storm the tree and get KeA back from the evil clutches of the villains! The design of the interior of the tree is pretty awesome, I love the impression of how wide and open it is. And naturally following from SC (and Cold Steel 2) we have the villains waiting for us to stop our ascent, but this time in their closed worlds. It was really cool passing through each depiction of a person's inner world, each with their own little fun puzzles. I also like how this time the defenders have a reason to stop us, unlike in SC where they were fooling around to have their fun, or in CS2 where it didn't make much sense that we were fighting.
I'm impressed with how they wrapped up each person's story as well. Sigmund is just fulfilling his contract, Shirley just wants a damn good fight at any cost, Wald just wants to stand on equal ground with Wazy, and Arios fully admits he has nothing left to fight for but the Zero Plan. And not only do we have a great fight with each of these guys, but we arrest most of them at the end too (lol).
The battle with Arios was of course the one I looked forward to the most. He had the coolest looking world, even if it was a very easy puzzle. And I was looking forward to what he had to say for himself. And then...
. I enjoyed both scenes from reloading (Rixia's scene is especially illuminating) but I know there's a ton more I missed. I really don't like these incredibly limiting systems that lock away important backstory, I feel like I missed so much. I see this is where this bad habit of limiting story came from for the Steel series. I don't understand why it's so hard to just incorporate these important scenes during the course of natural gameplay like in Sky instead of leeringly locking them away behind points. Imagine if you had to unlock Agate's bonding points to see his actual backstory in SC; that would be really damn stupid.But enough about that. It's time to storm the tree and get KeA back from the evil clutches of the villains! The design of the interior of the tree is pretty awesome, I love the impression of how wide and open it is. And naturally following from SC (and Cold Steel 2) we have the villains waiting for us to stop our ascent, but this time in their closed worlds. It was really cool passing through each depiction of a person's inner world, each with their own little fun puzzles. I also like how this time the defenders have a reason to stop us, unlike in SC where they were fooling around to have their fun, or in CS2 where it didn't make much sense that we were fighting.
I'm impressed with how they wrapped up each person's story as well. Sigmund is just fulfilling his contract, Shirley just wants a damn good fight at any cost, Wald just wants to stand on equal ground with Wazy, and Arios fully admits he has nothing left to fight for but the Zero Plan. And not only do we have a great fight with each of these guys, but we arrest most of them at the end too (lol).
The battle with Arios was of course the one I looked forward to the most. He had the coolest looking world, even if it was a very easy puzzle. And I was looking forward to what he had to say for himself. And then...
...we learn the truth in one fell stroke. Arios and Guy disagreed over the Zero Plan and Arios decides he has to kill Guy to keep the plan secret! But after a long battle... Guy attempts a peaceful solution by requesting an end to the fight. And Arios the VILLAIN... well, not the cold-blooded villain I thought he was anymore... is preparing to go with the peaceful option when IAN MOTHER FUCKIN BEAR BEARD SENSEI GRIMWOOD decides he's gonna SHOOT GUY IN THE BACK! What a coward... murdering a family man from the shadows! And Arios's guilt has carried him this far!
Though I feel bad for Ian a little... Arios and Ian are essentially men pushed to the edge and offered a way out from their grief, while at the same time elevating Crossbell to new heights of power and safety. Seems like a win:win, no? Still naught but a paradise of lies!
As we head into the final room, my game begins lagging due to all of the effects and we confront Ian and Mariabell at the pillar where KeA is trapped! And then...
Though I feel bad for Ian a little... Arios and Ian are essentially men pushed to the edge and offered a way out from their grief, while at the same time elevating Crossbell to new heights of power and safety. Seems like a win:win, no? Still naught but a paradise of lies!
As we head into the final room, my game begins lagging due to all of the effects and we confront Ian and Mariabell at the pillar where KeA is trapped! And then...
WTF? KeA saved us in Zero no Kiseki! WE DIED ON THE FIRST RUN! By having us meet Joshua and Estelle and Renne WE ARE IN AN ALTERNATE TIMELINE WHERE EVERYONE IS SAVED! TIME LOOPS AND TIME BREAKS AND PARALLEL DIMENSIONS! Everything that I know is a lie! But at least we are living in the superior timeline of being NOT DEAD thanks to now meeting Estelle and Joshua! KeA can essentially rewrite history... a terrifying power, a testament to save states! What is the true timeline of Kiseki? How many timelines are running right now?
This part of the game is interesting because Lloyd actually tries to empathize and reason with Ian. Even though he murdered his brother, who Lloyd cared for deeply, Lloyd is like his brother in that he is seeking the alternative to violence through reason, just like a good policeman and negotiator and friend to Ian. And it actually gets through, which surprised the hell out of me. In the end Ian can't live with the potential fallout and his guilt. BUT THEN MARIABELL FUCKING MURDERS HIM IN COLD BLOOD FOR TURNING AGAINST HER!
Cue battle! So this battle actually was not very difficult. Though you are limited by the movement, Mariabell doesn't hit very hard for some reason. I was immune to pretty much all status effects by this point so the small monsters were a threat. Just whittled her down and kicked her ass. Still, she has one of the funniest S-Crafts in Kiseki history, a real highlight.
After we lay down the law on Rita Repulsa she decides to reveal KeA's grand secret... that everyone trying to save her is due to her power that forces everyone to be ultra-protective of her... and all our feelings towards her were naught but lies! (I like how during this part Randy says "Hey! Stop bullying our Ki-chan!") KeA snaps and totally goes crazy with her power and turns into the final boss whose name I can't pronounce! And finally.... AZURE ARBITRATOR!
This part of the game is interesting because Lloyd actually tries to empathize and reason with Ian. Even though he murdered his brother, who Lloyd cared for deeply, Lloyd is like his brother in that he is seeking the alternative to violence through reason, just like a good policeman and negotiator and friend to Ian. And it actually gets through, which surprised the hell out of me. In the end Ian can't live with the potential fallout and his guilt. BUT THEN MARIABELL FUCKING MURDERS HIM IN COLD BLOOD FOR TURNING AGAINST HER!
Cue battle! So this battle actually was not very difficult. Though you are limited by the movement, Mariabell doesn't hit very hard for some reason. I was immune to pretty much all status effects by this point so the small monsters were a threat. Just whittled her down and kicked her ass. Still, she has one of the funniest S-Crafts in Kiseki history, a real highlight.
After we lay down the law on Rita Repulsa she decides to reveal KeA's grand secret... that everyone trying to save her is due to her power that forces everyone to be ultra-protective of her... and all our feelings towards her were naught but lies! (I like how during this part Randy says "Hey! Stop bullying our Ki-chan!") KeA snaps and totally goes crazy with her power and turns into the final boss whose name I can't pronounce! And finally.... AZURE ARBITRATOR!
This was a long and tough battle that required me to really think it through. The first part took me ages. The second part was weird, because I kept trying to cast Arts, she kept stopping them... then I realized I could just trap her in a loop? Thanks to Tio and Elie alternating Art attacks while Lloyd and Randy just wailed on the boss, she wouldn't do anything else! That's a really bad exploit that's way too easy for people to discover. Then third phase and I did the exact same thing, I just went all out on firepower, though I did eat one S-Craft that killed Tio and Elie. I think I would've preferred if the boss attacked more aggressively.
We save KeA from herself and Lloyd in true heroic fashion dashes in before she turns into nothingness, visiting her dream world where he meets... GUY? SIMOOOOOOOOOOOOO- I mean, LLOOOOOOOOOOOYD! YOUR TONFAS WILL CRUSH THE BARRIERS! In an incredibly good scene where Guy and Lloyd joke and share heavy words about time and reincarnation, the people who are left behind and the people who Lloyd met thanks to the same flow of time. A real great conversation, and like many times before, another highlight of the Kiseki series as a whole.
But we're not done yet. It's time to get KeA out of her funk. Lloyd basically drops the facts, saying that it was all thanks to making top-tier Maple Muffins, being a good student at Sunday School, giving out tackle hugs, and generally being the best little sister anyone could ask for were all of the many reasons the SSS and Crossbell loves KeA. You can't second guess why people like you or you'll accidentally crack dimensional theory, KeA. It's time to go back!
After rescuing KeA, Mariabell tries to play off the fact that she pulled off this whole act despite unleashing a wave of terror and destruction on Crossbell with her plan. Like... seriously? I cannot really accept such a friendly exchange (keep in mind we don't know that Ian is alive at that point). Probably a downpoint of the game here, but we learn that Mariabell... joins Ouroboros? But it's not stated for what reason as far as I can see. By the way, it's kind of weird that Ian was not killed. I suppose you can say that Mariabell was luring Lloyd and co. into testing the new treasure's strength by attacking Ian, but I'm pretty sure she already knows how strong it is. Just strange, especially when she both physically and mentally tortures KeA. It would be like if we just let the final boss of Ys VI walk off scot free with smiles or something.
Then after this is over the game drops some huge bombs on me! Did... they rush the ending and not have time to show and present the final pieces using in-game progression? Still I got to see cool illustrations and I LOVE the timeskip cast shot.
1) Crossbell is invaded and conquered by the Empire, repels the Republic, but we win our independence back in 2 years thanks to insurgency coordination!
2) Wald joins the Gralsritter.
3) Shirley joins the Ouroboros as an Enforcer (wut? I would've loved to see that recruitment process)
Rixia and Ilya and Shuri rejoin each other on Arc-en-Ciel's stage and all is well!
We save KeA from herself and Lloyd in true heroic fashion dashes in before she turns into nothingness, visiting her dream world where he meets... GUY? SIMOOOOOOOOOOOOO- I mean, LLOOOOOOOOOOOYD! YOUR TONFAS WILL CRUSH THE BARRIERS! In an incredibly good scene where Guy and Lloyd joke and share heavy words about time and reincarnation, the people who are left behind and the people who Lloyd met thanks to the same flow of time. A real great conversation, and like many times before, another highlight of the Kiseki series as a whole.
But we're not done yet. It's time to get KeA out of her funk. Lloyd basically drops the facts, saying that it was all thanks to making top-tier Maple Muffins, being a good student at Sunday School, giving out tackle hugs, and generally being the best little sister anyone could ask for were all of the many reasons the SSS and Crossbell loves KeA. You can't second guess why people like you or you'll accidentally crack dimensional theory, KeA. It's time to go back!
After rescuing KeA, Mariabell tries to play off the fact that she pulled off this whole act despite unleashing a wave of terror and destruction on Crossbell with her plan. Like... seriously? I cannot really accept such a friendly exchange (keep in mind we don't know that Ian is alive at that point). Probably a downpoint of the game here, but we learn that Mariabell... joins Ouroboros? But it's not stated for what reason as far as I can see. By the way, it's kind of weird that Ian was not killed. I suppose you can say that Mariabell was luring Lloyd and co. into testing the new treasure's strength by attacking Ian, but I'm pretty sure she already knows how strong it is. Just strange, especially when she both physically and mentally tortures KeA. It would be like if we just let the final boss of Ys VI walk off scot free with smiles or something.
Then after this is over the game drops some huge bombs on me! Did... they rush the ending and not have time to show and present the final pieces using in-game progression? Still I got to see cool illustrations and I LOVE the timeskip cast shot.
1) Crossbell is invaded and conquered by the Empire, repels the Republic, but we win our independence back in 2 years thanks to insurgency coordination!
2) Wald joins the Gralsritter.
3) Shirley joins the Ouroboros as an Enforcer (wut? I would've loved to see that recruitment process)
Rixia and Ilya and Shuri rejoin each other on Arc-en-Ciel's stage and all is well!
Masterpiece. Though, I think I prefer Zero's style of presentation, even though Ao has way more stuff happening.
If I had played this before I played Cold Steel 1 & 2 I would've appreciated more references, but I think I would've been doubly pissed at CS1 and CS2's plot progression being pretty much entirely spoiled, with very little extra to make up for it.
Zero and Ao really do have the best sidequests, with a great characters and ensemble cast sharing top-tier dialogue with one another. Crossbell really does feel like the zenith of what a Kiseki game should be, which is to make it feel like you're in a moving breathing world that changes with every major step, and characters that are so well threaded into the narrative that you feel like you are always part of that moving world.
Do I have criticisms... yes, absolutely. But in the face of what I enjoyed, not a problem.
What a great write-up! Two things (Ao spoilers, obviously):
1.
2.
1.
Mariabell becomes Weissmann's successor as third Anguis.
Looks like the Azure Demiourgos didn't pull the most devastating attack in the series on you. What you fortunately missed.
They took their time for it, and they delivered. That's why I have high hopes for Sen III as well.
Young Magus
Junior Member
Props to Nyoro SF for the write-up, I wish I had the write up skills you did :'(. Its...Its so beautiful
More Ao talk....
More Ao talk....
Man fuck that attack.
I knew that it was coming thanks to a guide but I over shot Lloyds S-Craft and didn't do much damage in time so I got killed with the boss only having HP in the hundreds :mjcry:.
10-15 minutes of redo and a burst item later, I got that sucker d.e.a.d.
I knew that it was coming thanks to a guide but I over shot Lloyds S-Craft and didn't do much damage in time so I got killed with the boss only having HP in the hundreds :mjcry:.
10-15 minutes of redo and a burst item later, I got that sucker d.e.a.d.
Yo the retake crossbell section of the final chapter remains the hypest of shit from Kiseki yet tho. The Brights fight against the mech, Petra-Matea's death ;_;, Kevin's use of his Stigma to reflect the attack on his ship, the armies fightin the red Constellation, Lechter using a sword(...this might've happened earlier/later than the other ｅｖｅｎｔｓ, all to the tune of the arrangement of "Get over that Barrier".....It was...... wow.
, all to the tune of the arrangement of "Get over that Barrier".....It was...... wow.Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Not a
person(as in I don't think I ever watched a single series) but finishing Sen II has me interested. To people that are savvy with the genre what would you guys say is one of the stronger
inspirations for Sen?
mecha
mecha
Code Geass? Gundam? Evangelion? Or am I totally off mark assuming an influence here? Is it just its own thing?
Glitter and Gold
Banned
Xenogears
It's really hard to identify any direct influences in
mecha
For an actual anime I'm gonna say
Turn A Gundam
(Ao)
Is it stated why she joins Ouroboros? Also, holy crap at that attack, apparently it destroys all of space-time? Seems like this would be a real problematic attack on Nightmare
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
So I haven't been clicking these tags, but it does appear that the Ao series spoils Cold Steel but the Cold Steel series also spoils the Ao series?
In that case I'm glad I didn't wait until Ao gets localized (which may very well be never) to start CS, because if they spoil each others, then, oh well... I'm guessing some of the spoilers are, among others, the Crossbell events referenced in
of CS1?
Speaking of CS1, chapter 5 end boss was a total joke. I think I beat it unscathed or nearly...
's S-Craft at 200 CP is just ridiculously overpowered (44k damage or something??), and the boss (who looks fucking ridiculous btw, of course
) spent the rest of her turns frozen/fainted.
, previously in the chapter, was wayyy harder. Go figure.
In that case I'm glad I didn't wait until Ao gets localized (which may very well be never) to start CS, because if they spoil each others, then, oh well...
I'm guessing some of the spoilers are, among others, the Crossbell events referenced in
chapter 5
Speaking of CS1, chapter 5 end boss was a total joke. I think I beat it unscathed or nearly...
Sara
the female villain has to be some stupid red barbie e_e
Nosferatu
So I haven't been clicking these tags, but it does appear that the Ao series spoils Cold Steel but the Cold Steel series also spoils the Ao series?
In that case I'm glad I didn't wait until Ao gets localized (which may very well be never) to start CS, because if they spoil each others, then, oh well...of CS1?chapter 5
Speaking of CS1, chapter 5 end boss was a total joke. I think I beat it unscathed or nearly...'s S-Craft at 200 CP is just ridiculously overpowered (44k damage or something??), and the boss (who looks fucking ridiculous btw, of courseSara) spent the rest of her turns frozen/fainted.the female villain has to be some stupid red barbie e_e, previously in the chapter, was wayyy harder. Go figure.Nosferatu
CS rather hints to a few events happening in Crossbell but you don't get the whole picture and surely not enough to be even called spoilers.
Playing CS then moving to the Crossbell Arc is very viable option.
Yea, you get some hints at what's going on in crossbell but no details. Playing the CS games just made me more interested in playing zero/ao, not like I knew too much now or anything.
Though I'll argue that stuff about Crossbell at the end of Cold Steel II spoils Ao no Kiseki.
Ao Details:
Considering how much of a battle it is for Crossbell to gain its independence and its role in everything between Erebonia and Calvard, the fact that Crossbell falls under Erebonian control during Ao no Kiseki's ending is a pretty big deal for those two games. So finding it out in Cold Steel II kind of diminishes the impact of that, on top of everything in Ao no Kiseki's full ending.
I remember that I tried to make a lot of effort to keep some screenshots of Cold Steel II off of the very front of Endless History when it was about to come out in Japan, primarily due to that particular spoiler.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Cool. Well, playing JP games is not an option so who knows when that'll happen, if ever.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
It seemed like most of the Crossbell "spoilers" in Cold Steel existed primarily to give the player a frame of reference for when events happen in CS relative to Crossbell arc timeline. They don't really mean much on their own and most of them have almost no impact on the narrative within the Erebonian arc itself.
Absolutely. I don't disagree with this. I just think as it also involves something that impacts a 'point of contention' in Ao no Kiseki, it's not a little spoiler, as well. It basically changes your viewpoint of things happening in Ao to something that I think is a little more sad.
Commentary based on stuff in Ao:
Simply because you realize that most of what they're doing is moot point, since Erebonia wins anyway.
Well, (Ao)
You learn about it, and then almost immediately after you learn that Crossbell won their independence back. So the sadness is kind of short lived and replaced with curiosity on how they pulled it off since Erebonia's military is so much more powerful.
I partially agree with you, as I had played through CS2 before Ao, but I think Ao handled it well to the point where even the main cast knows it's a foregone conclusion that Crossbell will be invaded now that their protection is gone, so it's less of a sticking point and more of a "I wonder what happens next".
I partially agree with you, as I had played through CS2 before Ao, but I think Ao handled it well to the point where even the main cast knows it's a foregone conclusion that Crossbell will be invaded now that their protection is gone, so it's less of a sticking point and more of a "I wonder what happens next".
Glitter and Gold
Banned
Oh I moreso meant stuff in regards to the things before the Divertissement. I actually agree with your perspective. I kind of had that feeling even without playing Ao. That
man it must suck that these guys get occupied and split up anyways
I also really like the idea that Sen III will end up
being a sequel to both duologies simultaneously
Scrooge McDuck
Member
As somebody who hasn't played the Crossbell arc, I feel like the only thing that got spoiled to me is
the Arc-en-ciel performer Rixia Mao is actually also an assassin named Yin.
(Ao ending)
While they 'lost' the Sept-Terrion of Mirage (Zero), Mariabell possesses the knowledge to re-create another one. So rather than taking the Sept-Terrion itself home, they settled for the knowledge. And yes, the Azure Demiourgos turned out to be quite a bit stronger than they originally imagined; apart from just governing mirage, it also gained governance over the space (making it a second Aureole) and time.
The power of three higher elemental Sept-Terrion compressed in an mentally tortured 9-year-old. Imagine how wrong thing could've gone.
The power of three higher elemental Sept-Terrion compressed in an mentally tortured 9-year-old. Imagine how wrong thing could've gone.
That's a fairly minor spoiler, indeed. It's quite obvious and revealed much earlier than I expected. For most that jumped into the series after Ao released (CS2 spoiler),
it's not "Yin is actually Rixia!" but "Rixia actually moonlights as assassin Yin!"
I'm sure Falcom will keep that in mind (especially since they intended Cold Steel as a new moment to jump into the series). There's also a time skip of approximately 1,5 year, so that's more than characters are willing to reminiscent over all the time. The thing I do worry about are the double identities of certain characters. Ao was canon-shifting so they can't work their way around that anymore.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
It's hard to avoid having this spoiled if you look at pretty much any Zero/Ao media, though. It's like Darth Vader is Luke's father level material.
Cold Steel got me SUPER interested in
that giant blue tree. That was a really cool narrative device and it made it feel like major stuff was actually happening concurrently to Rean's adventure.
Oh now I understand (Ao ending)
So... I hope that they show Mariabell presenting the Grandmaster with a new Sept-Terrion, just like Campanella presented the Sept-Terrion he grabbed in 3rd (thanks to floofy for translating that door)
Luckily for you, that spoiler by itself is not a big deal. I thought it would be, but there's way more layers than that in the Crossbell series regarding that character.
I'm playing on hard and it's pretty good. Why did people say that? Hard is the new normal. Some of the fights are really tough on hard.
I'm finding Cold Steel 1 stupidly addictive.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah I really regret picking Normal. Usually in RPGs it just means "grindy" but in this case, it'd probably mean optimizing your gear, orbment loadout, CP use, etc. The
Nosferatu
As for why people said that, I don't know. There was this post, among others, on the last page:
Can't say why they'd say this. I'll definitely play CS2 on Hard unless there's a strong reason not to do that.
I might still play 3rd on Normal, though, since TitS seemed a bit more balanced? It wasn't overly hard but several bosses were legit challenging at least and S-crafts, while strong, didn't repeatedly turn the tide as ridiculously as in CS. Unless 3rd follows the same trends as CS instead of earlier TitS games and is also brain-dead easy...
KharmaPolice
Member
Definitely play CS2 on Hard. I also played CS1 on Normal and regretted it (I thought that the boss you mentioned earlier was the only challenging part of the game). CS2 on Hard was still more on the easy side but had some tough parts. These games just give the player too many powerful options/tools.
I played CS1 on Normal, playing CS2 on Normal too. No regrets. The more I play, the more I feel that I wouldn't enjoy the game as much if it were much "harder" because the numbers aren't well balanced at all. The player has way too many options, so no matter how "hard" they scale the game, there are definite strategies to one shot most encounters anyway. The challenge would then come from bosses who are already so skewed that just a little bad luck would wipe you. I don't really think that's fun design. Would definitely prefer a system where the player has way less options but each option actually matters and the challenge is built around understanding when to use what strategies in a fight.
There's so many ways to break these games anyway. S-Craft cheese, Chrono Burst, Attack Food, Zeram/Moebius combo, Evade and/or Insight, physical/magical immunity Artes or crafts and much more. If you really want to win, you can and there's not really anything the games can do to stop you. Even on Nightmare.
BassForever
Member
Or enemies and battles are beefed up where you need all those options to win, but there would have to be a lot less battles for that to work.
I actually liked that.
Having to actually work around some of the lategame bosses was neat. Of course, "work around" usually amounted to abusing whatever broken strategy I had available, but I dug actually feeling some pressure. Major props to the final boss which
says no to the majority of broken strategies.
But yeah overall, CS is definitely a step back from TiTS in terms of balance. Really digging how TiTS handles balance, actually (so far anyway)
Personally I'm never a fan of balancing solely from beefing up enemies. There's no way to really account for everything a player -can- do. Instead, I prefer balance that's designed around unique patterns and situation design. I love playing a game and discovering there's a trick to beating a certain enemy. Maybe it can only be hit from behind, or maybe when it's in a certain state you cannot attack it or it will have a devastating counter. Maybe you need to move around the field instead of attacking all the time to avoid certain attacks (SC's final boss YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS). I like when battles are engaging because there's more to it than "what attack should I use to do the most damage".
BassForever
Member
I mean the final boss of sc was exactly what I meant by my statement. Be it by increasing stats, giving enemies more options, better ai, or having more unique situations you could make an extremely compelling system out of what we have in cs's base game. I would kill to see the guy who did the fft1.3 mod make some kind of rebalance/hard patch for cs1/2.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Kind of agree, Trails combat feels at its best when it utilizes positioning/forces frequent repositioning and makes a point to make turn management important(so no game breaking chrono buffs and super cancellers :-x). Feel like balancing for these two aspects lead to the most strategical payoff.
That said I'm the type of player that just enjoys exploiting systems to make my parties godlike. So it's not like I'm too sad about the shortcomings.
That said I'm the type of player that just enjoys exploiting systems to make my parties godlike. So it's not like I'm too sad about the shortcomings.
Pfff, everyone knows the Grandmaster is Anton, not Ricki.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I think that's one of the big reasons why CS doesn't ever feel too challenging. Movement is completely trivial, and there's very few boss fights where positioning really matters a lot.
That's one of the reasons the fight at the end of CS1 Chapter 6 feels so challenging. You actually need to be careful with how your party is positioned to avoid just getting wrecked by his S-craft.
A version of Cold Steel I and II where there was a lot more emphasis placed on positioning would probably have much more enjoyable boss fights overall.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
I think the games are pretty balanced up until late game where they give you all these ridiculous damage doubling options
There are ways to fix it, I'm just not sure Falcom is really interested in making Kiseki "difficult".
I think the battle systems are plenty fun and interesting as is. There's a lot of freedom and versatility in party choice and character builds. I think the fun comes from playing around with those options and coming up with your own rules and ideas, over just trying to clear encounters as efficiently as possible.
but I'm not really one who finds games fun by how likely or frequently I'm going to come close to game over while playing. So I might be missing the appeal of what people describe as challenging
There are ways to fix it, I'm just not sure Falcom is really interested in making Kiseki "difficult".
I think the battle systems are plenty fun and interesting as is. There's a lot of freedom and versatility in party choice and character builds. I think the fun comes from playing around with those options and coming up with your own rules and ideas, over just trying to clear encounters as efficiently as possible.
but I'm not really one who finds games fun by how likely or frequently I'm going to come close to game over while playing. So I might be missing the appeal of what people describe as challenging
I appreciate challenges in games, but I really like the battle systems in Cold Steel I and II. For me, breaking the game is kind of its own self-imposed challenge. I like messing around with quartz and finding the most broken combinations. Killing a boss in a few turns feels really satisfying.
I don't really look for challenges in JRPG's. I usually go to strategy games or puzzle games for those. CS I and II are games where I fiddle with quartz for 15 minutes, then sit back and enjoy the fireworks.
I don't really look for challenges in JRPG's. I usually go to strategy games or puzzle games for those. CS I and II are games where I fiddle with quartz for 15 minutes, then sit back and enjoy the fireworks.
I strongly agree with this, but...
Some aspects of the battle system were just unnecessarily broken. Like Domination was completely graceless.
"x2 damage" like where's the fun in that? Domination is why bosses have super inflated health values in the later stage of the game too.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
Yeah like I said there's ways to tighten it so that the late game scaling isn't as unbounded as it is. I'm just not sure Falcom is interested in doing that. I think they knew exactly what they were doing when they increased the damage cap and created quartz like waterfall.
That's why instead of removing Domination in CS2, they gave mages the equivalent for arts. lol
At the end of the day I believe that RPGs are about making your own fun. The game is completely manageable without those quartz. If you want to have fun and a challenging experience, limit yourself from using those options
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I disagree completely. If the game gives me broken options, it's the game's fault because it's badly designed. It shouldn't be up to the player to balance the game. I mean if you want to do that and enjoy doing that, sure, go for it. I've done SL1 runs in Dark Souls, I've tried (though never bothered finishing) 0-deaths runs in Shining Force 2, and so on. But, that's only after having played and replayed those games to the point of mastery. The core game is still fairly well balanced so that a first playthrough is at least moderately challening.
Right now, it's mildly amusing to beat an end-of-chapter boss unscathed and in 2 rounds, but it doesn't make for very rewarding gameplay, and saying "well then don't use 200 CP S-crafts" is a pretty lame excuse.