-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Last of Us (Naughty Dog): Hold One Second
- Thread starter Y2Kev
- Start date
- Status
Not necessary, I've read most of the posts in this topic. The most I've seen is "Hype -100" for this game over his involvement. Which isn't really mean spirited but a statement of how bad Enslaved was. I have seen no personal attacks on the man, which WOULD be mean spirited.
It IS ok to be sour over the fact he was lead designer in Enslaved. That's what I don't get. Why is it being looked at as negative to take a guys body of work and say 'that is bad shit'? It is silly to try to think he'll have enough influence to ruin this game, but it is not silly to think the guy has only made shit.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Mark Davies is not a lead designer on this game, as the title misleadingly suggests, but rather one of the designers. He was one of lead designs for Enslaved. I don't see why having one person on the team who's not even in a lead role was so discussion worthy, or title change worthy tbh, unless there is a confusion as to what his role is.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Pass by ignorance? Ok... that's nice.
You know what's ignorant? Not comprehending the fact that one fucking guy doesn't make a game. Even if enslaved didn't have a single redeeming quality, it doesn't mean someone working on the game didn't have immense talent. There a multitude of factors that could account for talented people releasing subpar work.
But no.... lets hang it all on this guy. Lets ignore the fact that some of the most talented devs on the planet saw some desirable qualities in his skillset. Lets ignore the fact that none of us here really know what he does or doesn't do well... and despite this lack of critical information... continue to throw insults at him.
read wrong.
even still, I'm sure there's 100 cases of shit developers continuing to make shit.
Envolved1, I'm going to just go and assume you know how to read and skip the going back and re-quoting thirty of my posts.
1. I've never once threw a single insult at him, only his body of work.
2. I never once said he is making OR breaking the game. I can quote some, like, six different posts of mine all saying I doubt he will have enough influence to make the game good or bad.
3. I never said it doesn't mean he doesn't have some talent or that Naughty Dog couldn't change his bad ideas. In fact, I've said if anything Naughty Dog WILL work the bad habits out of him.
That said, I do not think he should get a free pass from criticism looking at his body of work. I don't think it's outrageous that it'd be a slight negative tick for some people.
Was a Lead Game Designer. Now he is a Game Designer.
SolidSnakex
Member
No, he isn't. He's a game designer at ND just like Jacob is. Jacob was the lead designer of Damnation and went on to design some of the most memorable levels in Uncharted 2. The topic mention is misleading. It's kind of pointless for it to even be there as it's nowhere near as relevant as Neil being the creative director.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
You did it back-handed. You implied that his influence could tarnish the game but said ND likely wouldn't allow that to happen.
you are a disingenuous poster.
would he get naked when you twist it
Ketchup Boy
Junior Member
Hmmm definitely reminded me of I Am Legend. Definitely had to be inspired by that movie.
Anyways, I pretty sick of fast moving zombies lol especially weird looking enemies. First, Halo had the flood. Then Gears of War had some flood like enemies. Now, this game. They're the least interesting enemies to fight, imo.
Anyways, I pretty sick of fast moving zombies lol especially weird looking enemies. First, Halo had the flood. Then Gears of War had some flood like enemies. Now, this game. They're the least interesting enemies to fight, imo.
you should maybe try out r/gaming. it's all pictures of dogs playing skyrim and portal 2 birthday cakes. inoffensive stuff.
i'd much sooner judge the potential of a game on the past work of its key engineers that some horseshit cinematic promo. rubes that lick that shit up and go around cawwing about "day one!" are the easiest marks in the game.
you've still seen nothing of the game, just some animated concept art. do attempt to keep it flaccid atleast until you've seen a downscaled screenshot.
His body of work is awful; but I do not think he has enough influence to seriously impact the game one way or the other. And I don't think ND would allow his greater development demons to impact the game anyhow.
All are true. None are back handed. It's all extremely up front discussion about the guy in question. There's nothing disingenuous about it.
Yeah... I was skeptical too, but I got to give it to Keighley this time. New franchise for PS3 from Naughty Dog... and it's already been in development for 2 years. That's a big reveal.
Next time, I will believe the hype.
this is why I think all dev should at least get a participation trophy, that way there's fans won't be this bitter.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
What if Team Ninja and Naughty Dog is the same team?!
cutmeamango
Banned
Singling him out as cause of 1 bad game and diminishing his work in this new one is mean-spirited.
And I think it is perfectly fine to look at someone's resume and think "well, this is no good", but given the team work nature of game development, gauging how much fault or how valuable as a worker he is, it's a huge stretch. That's what happened here and bugged me.
But as I said, you have a different perspective of criticism than me, and I clearly understand that.
Well I can see this perspective. But then the question is should we just throw away this news and forget it even happened? Why list designers on games at all early on since we can never know what influence they're having? Does their past development sins get overlooked each new game that comes?
To me, both sides are over the top. I think it's fair game to look at his work and question his game development abilities. I don't think it's fair to try to damn this whole game over one guys involvement, just like it'd be probably unfair to say this one guy ruined Enslaved. They are involved, they have some blame, not all.
I just think you went a little far with demanding an apology.
3rdamention
Member
Wow, I love the ignorance on GAF. If a developer/designer works on one game that some Gaffers do not like, then some of you act as if, said developer/designer, can never work on a game that you could like, PERIOD.
Some designers/developers make games people do not enjoy, but that doesn't mean they cannot NEVER EVER make a game they could enjoy!
Some designers/developers make games people do not enjoy, but that doesn't mean they cannot NEVER EVER make a game they could enjoy!
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
This was your first post:
You have repeated this same thing half a dozen times since. It's a back-handed slight on the guy... this is not debatable.
And my issue here, is that you're basing your criticism on pretty shaky ground, not really knowing much about the guy in question.
"OMG a PS3 exclusive?? Quick guys, let's bash it. Quick!!!!"
It's not a back handed at all. It's an extremely up-front slight on the guys body of work, which you already know is atrocious. It simultaneously notes that I doubt he will be able to negatively impact the game at all. The fact that you think it's back-handed is amusing, considering the extreme clarity in the post. At this point this is a semantics debate for which I have no interest in pursuing. You're wrong, that's the end of it.
Theonik
Member
You realize you're saying Enslaved is bad based on the first 5 minutes of the game right?
It's made even worse not being able to see peoples avatars.
What's the criteria?
Is I Am Alive still coming out? Thought that got shitcanned?
How about you actually play the real game first before you start calling it "bankrupt".
Good lord, this is absurd.
cutmeamango
Banned
Maybe the news was non-news, just a congratulatory to the new staff member, since he assumed a secondary position. Or another assumption would be that he brought his expertise in nature advancement and building decayment that was shown in his project Enslaved and they were happy to have him on board. I don't know.
Excitement maybe?
Well, if he was Lead Designer for several bad to shit games, I'd give you the upper hand of judgment, but as from his resume Serious Sam: Next Encounter wasn't bad, and Robot Wars looks like a fairly low budget game with no ratings.
He was the the Lead Level Designer in Heavenly Sword, and that too wasn't bad.
So the only real taint would be being Lead Designer of Enslaved, and how can we gauge his effect on it?
--
And the apology may have been an hyperbole reaction to the hyperbole haha to show how bad the comments about him were.
They should have chosen 5 minutes that illustrated the game better?
Unless you are trying to tell me that the game mechanics and character design greatly differ in the rest of the game, which the reviews I've read told me they don't, I don't need to play the whole game. Especially when I have to pay big bucks for it.
And of course you guys are not obliged to concur with me about the game!
Wait no Heavenly Sword was terrible too, sorry
Yeah, I understand. I just hate when people try to close off avenues of criticism. It is true we don't know how he'll impact the game if at all, but trying to say that we shouldn't be able to criticize his body of work is silly imo.
Anyway, seems we're not too far off from each others mindset. *highfive* for cordial endings
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Wrong Ninja.
What I was thinking?, maybe it's because NG3 is shaping to be a turd comparable to any other Ninja Theory work?.
I don't know!
Amirox dude, why you gotta be such an antagonistic, often hate fuelled negative nancy so often? Just this one time dude, bail out gracefully without causing a shit storm along the way. Doesn't matter if it's about Ninja Theory, Religion, the 3DS, Heavy Rain or whatever, you never back down and you're not generally shy about spewing vitriol along the way.
Why should a developer be free from heavy critisism based off of one game and an implied notion he could shit up an entire new game because of it? Why should I not insult someone's shitty opinion of a shitty game? (Heavy Rain.) Why should I not insult religion and mock those that follow such a ridiculous belief? Why should I have to use the 3D on the 3DS to know its shitty when I've used similar tech? Etc etc etc.
I don't know why you post the things you sometimes do...but seriously dude, try and showcase some compassion every now and again...
Anyway, this Enslaved thing has been blown way out of proportion. The much bigger news here is the game being headed by U2's director, but even then we have to remember there's entire teams behind these things, a games success isn't often down to the merits of one man or women. Hell I remember each iteration of GOW was met with similar freak out for changes in game director/lead designer, despite it not impeding on the franchises quality in any discernible way, beyond that of personal taste anyway. I do think some of the heavy handed criticism towards Mark Davies over Enslaved and his role with LOU has been unfair and slightly embarrassing. Some criticism and opposing opinions, sure, but given the context, I think it's just been a bit ridiculous.
Why should a developer be free from heavy critisism based off of one game and an implied notion he could shit up an entire new game because of it? Why should I not insult someone's shitty opinion of a shitty game? (Heavy Rain.) Why should I not insult religion and mock those that follow such a ridiculous belief? Why should I have to use the 3D on the 3DS to know its shitty when I've used similar tech? Etc etc etc.
I don't know why you post the things you sometimes do...but seriously dude, try and showcase some compassion every now and again...
Anyway, this Enslaved thing has been blown way out of proportion. The much bigger news here is the game being headed by U2's director, but even then we have to remember there's entire teams behind these things, a games success isn't often down to the merits of one man or women. Hell I remember each iteration of GOW was met with similar freak out for changes in game director/lead designer, despite it not impeding on the franchises quality in any discernible way, beyond that of personal taste anyway. I do think some of the heavy handed criticism towards Mark Davies over Enslaved and his role with LOU has been unfair and slightly embarrassing. Some criticism and opposing opinions, sure, but given the context, I think it's just been a bit ridiculous.
TheBrain76
Member
- Status