Yes, you can't just approach any enemy and melee them perfectly with no penalty.
That's not a flaw in my view, it's basic game design balance.
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The Last of Us: Remastered |OT| Game of the Years
- Thread starter VisceralBowl
- Start date
Yes, you can't just approach any enemy and melee them perfectly with no penalty.
That's not a flaw in my view, it's basic game design balance.
ODDI
Member
This sounds like something straight out of Youtube comments.
loaf of bread
Member
But there is a counter function when fighting.
So you've played an hour?
Kamina
Golden Boy
It's a remade PS3 title, so how would it be better looking than games that are specifically made for PS4?
That said, it looks great and is definitely one of the best games ever made.
Well, it's at heart a PS3 game. I think it looks great, not Infamous Second Son tier but still an awesome port for PS4.
lukeskymac
Member
Just because you didn't write the change in your reductive little paragraph doesn't mean it wasn't there.
That's just stating that your headcanon would have been better just because you didn't "get" it.
RealityPales
Member
Oh wow. Thanks for this!
HAHA, someone's a little touchy about this. Meow.
IF you'd like to have a conversation with me, I'm game. However, I can agree that we disagree on something and not think you are stupid because of it. If you are only interested in bandying about petty comments, no thanks.
Spoilered as I do not want to give away any preconceptions on ending:
I do not think Joel's character evolved in a way that was meaningful to me, full stop. There were parts in this story that impacted me much more than the ending and I think that is a shame
Xenon
Member
Yeah, normally that's enough for me to get a good read on a game.
The Boston area is the weakest part of the game by a significant margin. It picks up significantly after that.
Handy Fake
Member
Whilst I agree that the previous poster was a little rash, I think
you have to be willfully unempathic not to see the changes in Joel's attitude towards Ellie and life.
CloudyTuba
Member
eso76
Member
Not "need". I'd like to see someone try to avoid some of the usual gameplay devices (invisible or non-plausible walls etc.) use a new language. Mind you, not saying the results would be good, and i understand you can't expect that a) in AAA games b) in this expensive era.
Maybe in the days of the pioneers when games were developed during the weekend and "devs" thought having the player control a toothbrush having to keep someone's teeth clean would be a good idea for a videogame.
Or maybe some indie dev. State of Decay was a surprisingly brave title in many ways.
But I wouldn't expect you to get that yet - you aren't even in the 11/10 half of the game yet
Ahh, well. I guess i'll see for myself in the next few days, then.
Futurevoid
Member
I don't entirely disagree but I think the point at which we start the game with Joel
20 years later, Tess is the only "connection" he has to the world and while there is something close to caring there (he wouldn't continue on with Ellie if there wasn't), I don't think its anywhere near as meaningful. Remember, Joel agrees to take Ellie West because of the obligation he feels for Tess but only in so far as the first opportunity presents itself to hand her off to Tommy. That's his intention at the dam until Ellie brings up Sara and explains that shes had to deal with an equal amount of loss. His decision to stay with her is the turning point for me where it's no longer obligation but genuine caring for Ellie.
Pilgrimzero
Member
I think at the end if
And I'm curious if the people who say the would have
I can only speak for my wife and I but
First play through,
As for the ending, the special epilogue at the live show that few have seen but anyone can read about helps to get whats going on
If they do a sequel I think playing that up would be a good starting point. I could easily see the start of it as
Ellie died. Joel would have eaten a bullet.
And I'm curious if the people who say the would have
let Ellie die are parents.
I can only speak for my wife and I but
We would have done the same thing as Joel. Fuck everyone, not my kid.
First play through,
I killed everyone in that room at the end. I burst through the door saw what was going on and killed all of them as quickly as I could aim my gun.
As for the ending, the special epilogue at the live show that few have seen but anyone can read about helps to get whats going on
in Ellie and Joel's heads.
She obviously know she was lied to and she was denied her destiny but she also learns that Joel can't live without her.
If they do a sequel I think playing that up would be a good starting point. I could easily see the start of it as
Fireflies track her down, Joel stalls them long enough for her to escape, Tess style. Now Ellie is alone in the wild, being hunted and she has to figure out what to do and where to go. Who does she know that's still alive? Bill.
I do.
The evolution of Joel as a character is much less pronounced than Ellie's when compared side by side. Joel's evolution of character is finally being able to talking about his past, about his daughter, while still being able to let her go. Ellie is in some ways a replacement for Sarah, but in some of the final conversations leading up to the end, Joel recognizes that Ellie isn't Sarah and learns that he can still be a loving father figure instead of a cold shell of a man that he became after Sarah's death.
His arc is getting over his loss of Sarah and finding something worth loving and protecting in the cruel world that made him who he was up until he met Ellie. That is his character arc. It makes no sense for Joel to abandon the one thing left in the world that gives him any sort of hope or joy from a character perspective either.
His arc is getting over his loss of Sarah and finding something worth loving and protecting in the cruel world that made him who he was up until he met Ellie. That is his character arc. It makes no sense for Joel to abandon the one thing left in the world that gives him any sort of hope or joy from a character perspective either.
In the end, it is your interpretation of the game and its plot, so I welcome the discussion as well. I think that is one of the strongest points to the game. It isn't 100% cut and dry in the end and there is a lot of ambiguity here, but I do assure you there is a character arc there, they just don't beat you over the head with it.
Futurevoid
Member
Well, to be entirely fair, its what I arrived at after 4 playthroughs of the game on the PS3 but its also Druckman's interpretation/intention with Ellie's arch. Watch Neil's IGDA keynote on the game. It's very enlightening and I agree with him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le6qIz7MjSk
Oops, misread the comment there about Neil.
I'll need to rewatch that. I think Ashley had the more simple interpretation of the ending of the game with Ellie and took that as what was intended.
Thanks for the link btw!
There are still game mechanics that need to be introduced. I'd recommend sticking it out a but longer. The game only gets better and never drags. The intensity ramps up, and though it's exhausting to play, the experience is worth it.
Domcorleone
Member
Hold on, you can counter in this game?? How? I'm playing on Grounded and far too often I'll die when I whiff on a punch. I was getting frustrated.
My only issue with grounded is that they are far too conservative with the crafting items. I couldn't open one damn door. I think the enemies are aggressive and strong enough, I think they should be more liberal with the item placement.
My only issue with grounded is that they are far too conservative with the crafting items. I couldn't open one damn door. I think the enemies are aggressive and strong enough, I think they should be more liberal with the item placement.
My issue with Grounded is the lack of checkpoints. It's infuriating to finally make it through a tough section, think you're safe in the next area, then have to start the whole thing over again.
I don't disagree here; how Joel perceived his attitude towards Ellie and HIS life (with her in it) did change.
I think as a parent, he accepted her as his daughter (not in replacement) and was not going to fail her the way he did his own. I get that, but that is his selfishness, IMO. I failed once, I wont again, for me.
Plus, I think people who really love this game tend to think that if you don't agree it's the best, you are insulting it (not saying this about you); this game is a 9/10 for me and the most recent game, since Wolfenstein, that I played nightly till I finished it without stopping for MP in some other game in between. I really liked it, just think the ending was less than it could be (for me).
OR
found the courage to live with his failure - the real character growth I was hoping to see.
Two kids, who are the best part of me and my life.
I get that, and the taking from Ellie without her consent, was wrong. I totally agree with that. NOT giving the player the option to discuss/choose with Ellie is my biggest beef. For the record I fired three shots in that room the second I walked in, head shot to main doc, missed head shot to one in middle, then headshot on him/her. Grabber Ellie and left while the third was calling me a "monster".
When your punch misses, use Triangle to counter them. Took me a while to get too
Yep, I nearly broke my controller just now during this shootout at
Tommy's dam
Commentary spoiler:
Joel has seen the path this ends in with Henry and Sam. Letting Ellie die means Joel will face a similar end and it is talked about during the death of these two at the end of Summer. Joel letting Ellie die, even at the sake of trying to save humanity, would be the same as him pulling the trigger.
Futurevoid
Member
When your punch misses, use Triangle to counter them. Took me a while to get too
Yeah on the easier difficulties like Normal, you'll actually get a QTE like prompt when a counter is available. Same for when a stealth choke out is available. Those disappear on harder difficulties.
I like these conversations - and I'm okay with saying, that Joel had a character arc. It isn't one that I think was meaningful for me, but I don't want to get caught up on the use of that word.
I can say this, giving up my oldest (he's 8 now) to save the world is a situation I am sure I will never be in. And 100% of the time, if I was making the decision, in the manner that Joel did, I'd do the same he did.
BUT - I know my son, he'd give his last dollar of allowance to a homeless man, and he would choose to save the world. So would Ellie I think and therefore had we been given a choice, the hardest choice, the one that hurts the most, is letting her go. Especially hard for Joel as he'd already lost one daughter and had finally allowed Ellie in.
Futurevoid
Member
That's what is kind of interesting is that people want
Joel to be a better man despite the fact that game never once gives you the notion that he will be. He's weak and the death of Sara left him broken. He completely resists Ellie early on specifically to avoid any kind of reminder about Sara. I personally love how the game infers this with such great subtlety.
One example is when Tess is arguing with Joel about the possibility of Ellie actually telling the truth about her infection. She looks back at Ellie, looks at Joel and says "I get it." inferring she knows about Sara and his reservations.
Another great little scene is when they get to the top of the roof overlooking the Capitol building and Joel asks Ellie "So is it everything you hoped for?" and Ellie replies about them not being able to argue with the view which Joel sort of snickers at. As Ellie walks out of the frame, Joel looks down at his broken watch and sighs...
Again, another reminder that even 20 years on he hasn't let go.
That's the great question the game poses from Joel's perspective and what I think his arc is. Early in the game he's not even willing to entertain the notion of letting Ellie in. When he finally accepts that he will accompany her to the University, he's finally allowing it happen and the game then shows you how far he's willing to go to hold onto it. No matter the cost. Even cold blooded murder (Marlene).
Having Joel do anything else would ring terribly false considering what you experience throughout the game.
One example is when Tess is arguing with Joel about the possibility of Ellie actually telling the truth about her infection. She looks back at Ellie, looks at Joel and says "I get it." inferring she knows about Sara and his reservations.
Another great little scene is when they get to the top of the roof overlooking the Capitol building and Joel asks Ellie "So is it everything you hoped for?" and Ellie replies about them not being able to argue with the view which Joel sort of snickers at. As Ellie walks out of the frame, Joel looks down at his broken watch and sighs...
Again, another reminder that even 20 years on he hasn't let go.
That's the great question the game poses from Joel's perspective and what I think his arc is. Early in the game he's not even willing to entertain the notion of letting Ellie in. When he finally accepts that he will accompany her to the University, he's finally allowing it happen and the game then shows you how far he's willing to go to hold onto it. No matter the cost. Even cold blooded murder (Marlene).
Having Joel do anything else would ring terribly false considering what you experience throughout the game.
You're also not a man who's done the most deplorable shit a human being can do to another to survive.
Joel has. He's been a hunter. He all but tells Ellie he has killed innocent people. He's lived 20 years in a post-pandemic world where almost nothing had any real meaning to him.
I mean that has to be taken into account. As for the arc question, see my spoiler above.
BloodMoney
Banned
You need to keep at it, you are basically still going through the tutorial phase of the game.
Make it out of Boston..... You'll see.
Savantcore
Unconfirmed Member
It's because of this that I have pretty much given up on a proper stealth approach. Hate spending ten minutes navigating enemies only to get caught out by the last guy and sent right to the start.
Are the checkpoints set up how the games chapters and sections laid out? If so, the 2nd half of Summer in
Pittsburg
I believe you press triangle when there's a pause between you and the enemy. Like if you swing and they dodge, press triangle and you should counter their incoming attack. I completely forgot about the mechanic too when I played on survivor. No prompts unless you are on a lower difficulty.
milkham
Member
choke out the two runners, and just crawl by everyone else, you can go up on the left platform, if you have an arrow headshot the stationary clicker and you're through.
taizuke
Member
Is it just me or enemies can spot you easier on PS4? I mean i played Grounded twice on PS3 and when i started TLOU on PS4 i chose Normal cause i just didn't want to worry about the difficulty but i noticed areas on Grounded (PS3) where i went through unnoticed i was not able to easily replicate on Normal on PS4.
Jimmyfenix
Member
I agree with everything you said about Joel - I think we have no argument on what Joel is.
That is, the character arc he does take, never includes becoming a better man. It only includes allowing Ellie into his life. This sounds like this is a satisfying end for you, and that is totally cool with me.
Again, my biggest complaint isn't the way the story played out, it's that the player was never given the choice to talk with Ellie about the decision and choose from there. IF that had happen I think it makes the decision, either way, more impactful. I also think it would be fantastic to see the stats on which way was chosen on first play through.
Again, my biggest complaint isn't the way the story played out, it's that the player was never given the choice to talk with Ellie about the decision and choose from there. IF that had happen I think it makes the decision, either way, more impactful. I also think it would be fantastic to see the stats on which way was chosen on first play through.
However, I'm not trying to convince you or anyone that their interpretation is wrong, or to come to my side of the fence, just stating how I feel about the ending.
I've had some weird visual bugs, enemies got stuck inside a bus which forced a reload, some particle effects got stuck on the screen so I needed to reload, stuff like that.
And yeah I had some wonky AI at times,
stalkers especially would run around like a headless chicken not really sure what to do. The David spot was a little strange because after grabbing him a second time, I moved back a little bit and he took cover on the other side of me, crouched down with his back facing me. Made me clear that section REALLY fast, I'm glad that didn't happen when I first played the game.
Futurevoid
Member
Yep, it's all good. I like the discussion regardless.
lukeskymac
Member
And letting himself care about someone as much as he cared about Sarah after 20 years being a shell of a person is precisely his growth. The Joel you begin the game with would have not hesitated to turn around and be on his merry way after delivering Ellie to the Fireflies. Ironically this creates his conflict with Ellie over him putting his concern for her over her (misguided, in his opinion) desire to do what she thinks is right. And that's part of the beauty of the ending to me.
Not to mention the final cutscene: "You keep finding something to fight for" while he covers the watch with his hand.
Honestly, reading your posts, I think you are oversimplifying both Joel's and Ellie's arc.
[ STORY SPOILERS ]
Claiming that the ending or either characters' arc would have been better had they gone for the cop-out 'one of them dies'-ending ( and by that I mean pretty much every scenario in which either of them dies, including the 'Joel leaves Ellie'-scenario you describe ) just sounds like you do not fully understand or were not fully engaged in the story. The arc and ending do not define the story; the story defines the arc and ending. Having Joel abandon Ellie would fundamentally undermine everything the story has led up to at that point. Explaining this properly requires a much longer post than this, and I'll try making one when I have the time.
This is not an attack on your opinion or person, I just think there are some misconceptions ( not unique to you ) that need clearing up regarding the ending, it's context and everything that led up to it.
This is not an attack on your opinion or person, I just think there are some misconceptions ( not unique to you ) that need clearing up regarding the ending, it's context and everything that led up to it.
EDIT: [ MORE STORY SPOILERS ]
I see now that it is mostly about having choice for you. I respectfully disagree for the reasons stated above. The Last of Us is a linear story and all story moments lead up to the conclusion we were given in the game. Giving the player the option to choose a different conclusion based on his or her personal ideas of what the ending should be would fundamentally undermine all of the story and narrative that led up to the conclusion. You are not the main character in The Last of Us, Joel is. His decisions are informed by his actions throughout the story. Disagreeing with the choices and decisions he made is fine, but asking for the ability to influence his decisions, negating the preceding story in the process, is something I just don't understand.
Again; not attacking, just arguing that your wish for more choice would fundamentally undermine the story in this specific type of game.
Again; not attacking, just arguing that your wish for more choice would fundamentally undermine the story in this specific type of game.
Lumpy Onion
Member
So is "Hard difficulty with looking mode off" the preferred difficulty to start with? I seem to recall reading that hard has a satisfying level of challenge.
Also I spent an hour last night on the second floor of the prologue just looking at stuff and messing around in photo mode. I can't believe I spent that much time there but it's not hard to marvel at some of the visual elements. But I was also playing slow as hell because I didn't want the world to get shattered yet. Those glimpses of normality in the prologue are really sad and I wanted to really take it all in before stuff happens.
Also I spent an hour last night on the second floor of the prologue just looking at stuff and messing around in photo mode. I can't believe I spent that much time there but it's not hard to marvel at some of the visual elements. But I was also playing slow as hell because I didn't want the world to get shattered yet. Those glimpses of normality in the prologue are really sad and I wanted to really take it all in before stuff happens.
Pilgrimzero
Member
At first I didn't find Hard with no listening all that different from normal. but somewhere around mid-game I started getting less ammo and less supplies.
So to answer your question, yes it is the "sweet spot".
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Seriously. You're practically still in the tutorial.
Yup.
To me, thats what makes this story up there with the best. On my very first playthrough, I hesitated and was annoyed that I didn't have the choice in the matter on whether to save Ellie. Only until after the credits rolled, it dawned on me how fully realized the story, characters, and setting of the game was.
MaximusPayne
Member
^^^^ Yep
Lol, thats practically minutes in still.
talk to me when you have played 10 hours.
"You don't understand" or "were not fully engaged in the story" sounds pretty personal to me!
HAHA, just kidding man, we are on the internet, no big deal.
I'd be interested to read your analysis, though you sound a little more vested in the experience than I am. This is my first time playing it, I'll do the DLC tonight, and then I'll move to a different game. I enjoyed my time with TLOU, even with what I think are it's short-comings and it's unlikely that you'll convince me 100% that you are "right" and I am "wrong". IT's just the way the game impacted us personally, nothing more or less.
For the record, I think you could just as easily say that having them both live, was the cop-out. But why color anything as negative in someone else's opinion?
Futurevoid
Member
Indeed. The game doesn't truly start until you reach
Bill's town