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[DragoonKain]

Why The Last of Us Season 2 Changes When We Learn About Abby

Kaitlyn Dever plays the impactful, controversial character on HBO's horror show, returning April 13.

gizmodo.com

“There are two reasons why we change certain context or move certain things up in the story,” Druckmann said. “One of which [is] in the game… you play as Abby. So you immediately form an empathic connection with her because you’re surviving as her. You’re running through the snow, you’re fighting infected, and we can withhold certain things and make it a mystery that will be revealed later in the story. We can’t do that in the show because you’re not playing as her. So we need other tools and that context gave us that shortcut.”



“Another reason is, where that revelation happens in the game, if we were to stick to a very similar timeline, viewers would have to wait a very, very long time to get that context,” he continued. “It would probably get spoiled to them between seasons and we didn’t want that. So it felt appropriate for those reasons to move that up and give viewers that context right off the bat.”

Instead of later in the season or in season 3, season 2 apparently begins with us finding out right away who Abby is and her connection to Joel and Ellie and what the importance of her as a character is.

Thoughts?

On one hand, it will take away from the surprise of the reveal later on, which is disappointing. On the other hand, I get it. If they didn't do this, it's kinda like "Why are we following this character and why are we supposed to care about her?"

 

[Blitzkrieg!]

I still have no idea how people can watch Bella Ramsey on their screen for 45 minutes straight.

 

[viveks86]

Seems like the right call for the show. I'd still wager that the deed is done within the first 2 episodes.

I still have no idea how people can watch Bella Ramsey on their screen for 45 minutes straight.

They didn't. If she was on your screen that long, you may have pushed the pause button

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I’m sure it’ll be fine.

 

[PauloRoberto]

Basically... exactly what they shoud do in the game. It's amazing how they thought it was a great idea to simply toss aside a character with another without any prequel chapter....

 

[adamsapple]

Sure.

Spoiler

They're not gonna have Pedro Pascal die in the first episode, they're gonna stretch his presence as long as possible with more screen time than the game and have him die in the finale.

 

[EverydayBeast]

I’m ok with pushing Joel and Ellie out the door for Abby

 

[DragoonKain]

I think the big moment is going to happen a lot earlier than people expect. Because some of the trailers show scenes that happen well after that part and trailers typically don't show many scenes from the final episodes, usually they jam pack trailers with clips from the first few episodes, so I think it's going to happen a lot earlier, but will be loaded with flashbacks.

 

[Neff]

I still have no idea how people can watch Bella Ramsey on their screen for 45 minutes straight.

It's a good actperson

 

[SlimySnake]

I still have no idea how people can watch Bella Ramsey on their screen for 45 minutes straight.

 

[proandrad]

finally what TLOU part 2 story needed, an editor.

 

[SlimySnake]

I dont think it will hit that hard. Pedro was a weak Joel and no one I know talks about him or his performance. That moment was so visceral in the game because Joel was such an awesome character.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Joel is gonna survive in this for sure.

 

[N0S]

Joel is gonna survive in this for sure.

 

[mayham2199]

I dont think it will hit that hard. Pedro was a weak Joel and no one I know talks about him or his performance. That moment was so visceral in the game because Joel was such an awesome character.

Playing as the character IMO adds more weight to the whole situation. In the show it wont be that much different than the red wedding really and not even that impactful.

 

[March Climber]

I dont think it will hit that hard. Pedro was a weak Joel and no one I know talks about him or his performance. That moment was so visceral in the game because Joel was such an awesome character.

And that’s one of the reasons why I called it way back when the rumor first came out about there potentially being 3 seasons, that they are going to tell TLOU 2’s story differently in the TV show than the stupid flashback-flashforward nonsense that the game had.

It would be too messy in TV format, especially since they have to make the TV audience actually care about Abby first. I understand what Druckmann was trying to do with the game, I just don’t understand why he didn’t think beyond the shock factor moment and realize not many people would care or empathize with an unknown character shortly after they do something so drastic.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

chorizo was right

 

[Zacfoldor]

Sure.

Spoiler

They're not gonna have Pedro Pascal die in the first episode, they're gonna stretch his presence as long as possible with more screen time than the game and have him die in the finale.

This is 100% accurate imho.

They know TV audience won't accept what they did to us.

 

[Lokaum D+]

dont care

 

[viveks86]

I just don’t understand why he didn’t think beyond the shock factor moment and realize not many people would care or empathize with an unknown character shortly after they do something so drastic.

He did think beyond it. He wanted the player to feel hatred, confusion and disgust of controlling and saving an unknown character that you actually want to kill going forward. Some people appreciated that thought behind it, while others didn't. And that's fine. You can argue that it was a bad choice of storytelling. But it wasn't thoughtless, in my opinion.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Nobody cares. People want to know more about Ellie and Joel, the real protagonists of The last of Us story.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I dont think it will hit that hard. Pedro was a weak Joel and no one I know talks about him or his performance. That moment was so visceral in the game because Joel was such an awesome character.

Playing as the character IMO adds more weight to the whole situation. In the show it wont be that much different than the red wedding really and not even that impactful.

Yeah, I think the "weight" is certainly carried differently when playing a game for several hours vs watching a show. Especially in regards to pacing and just overall "weight". In TLOU's game you have a LOT more time with Joel than you do in the series, and that's no fault of Pedro. There's a lot more dialogue and just experiences as a whole. If they sought to do the same thing in the show that they did in the game the "weight" would surely not be there. Not even close. They need more time.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

And that’s one of the reasons why I called it way back when the rumor first came out about there potentially being 3 seasons, that they are going to tell TLOU 2’s story differently in the TV show than the stupid flashback-flashforward nonsense that the game had.

It would be too messy in TV format, especially since they have to make the TV audience actually care about Abby first. I understand what Druckmann was trying to do with the game, I just don’t understand why he didn’t think beyond the shock factor moment and realize not many people would care or empathize with an unknown character shortly after they do something so drastic.

Because he's a bad writer, and bad writers prioritice shock factor over dramatic tension because they dont know how to build it up.

For the TV show the order of events must be changed because there's no gameplay connection to characters and that needs to be compensated by more screen time with meaningful moments.

If I were in his shoes, I would tell the story in a different order and would kill Joel in a way that makes more sense with the profile of the new Abby. Since everybody knows what is going to happen, the show needs to create that tension that ends up in a bang. (bonus track: a surprising one, no golf this time)

 

[spookyfish]

She's a former LPGA champion, obviously.

 

[bitbydeath]

you play as Abby. So you immediately form an empathic connection with her because you’re surviving as her.

Is that how he thought it would play out?
I was actively trying to get her killed until I gave up and deleted the game.

 

[LordBritish]

Kinda makes me want to re-watch "The Walking Dead's" first four seasons which was perfection in story telling and drama

 

[Gamer79]

An origin story? Oh no, this is going to get ugly.

 

[Gamer79]

Kinda makes me want to re-watch "The Walking Dead's" first four seasons which was perfection in story telling and drama

I got up to season 7 and then could not watch anymore.

 

[xrnzaaas]

They just don't want people to abandon the show too early, simple calculation. Much easier to do that than being stuck with a game you can't refund or resell.

 

[cormack12]

I still have no idea how people can watch Bella Ramsey on their screen for 45 minutes straight.

I think her face is too small for her head. Its like when you scale a face down on a character creator. Just an oddity really.

 

[March Climber]

He did think beyond it. He wanted the player to feel hatred, confusion and disgust of controlling and saving an unknown character that you actually want to kill going forward. Some people appreciated that thought behind it, while others didn't. And that's fine. You can argue that it was a bad choice of storytelling. But it wasn't thoughtless, in my opinion.

…Then he should double down on that choice with this TV show. If there’s any inlking or doubt that he is not standing on that decision on this next season, that should tell you that him and his writing team thought of doing it differently.

I don’t consider it good storytelling in the same way that I don’t consider Rian Johnson’s The Last Jedi to be good storytelling. Both went for shock factor and subversion over storytelling.

I agree with Angry_Megalodon

 

[DForce]

I think Joel will die in the second episode.

The changes they're making based on the last two trailers:

Spoiler

Ellie and Abby's story will run simultaneously.

Some scenes take place during the second half of the game.

- Abby walks through the hospital corridor. [Abby - Day 1]
- Isaac tortures a Seraphite soldier. [Abby - Day 1]
- Seraphites (possibly) hanging Abby. [Abby - Day 1]

How they would keep Joel around.

Spoiler

They'll continue to show Joel in flashbacks. There now appears to be a NEW flashback scene featuring Eugene and Joel. Eugene's wife is Joel's therapist (who wasn't in Jackson in the video game), and Eugene died in The Last of Us Part II from a stroke.

- Abby found Tommy's location (in the game) because ex-Fireflies were picked up at Jackson.
- In the game, Joel reveals to Tommy how he saved Ellie, but now this secret is revealed to Eugene's wife.

The last trailer shows Seraphite with his young daughter, so maybe they're trying to really push the father/daughter story with more characters in the TV show. I wouldn't be surprised if they show this story multiple time and it's revealed that Ellie or Tommy were theoneswho killed this Seraphite Soldier.

 

[viveks86]

…Then he should double down on that choice with this TV show. If there’s any inlking or doubt that he is not standing on that decision on this next season, that should tell you that him and his writing team thought of doing it differently.

The format is too long winded to keep the viewer's interest after such a turn of events. If the game split an existing fan base primarily over this, it will destroy the show (if the event has the same emotional impact as the game did). Unlike games, there is no material investment from the viewer to see it through. They'll just change the channel or watch another show. The original decision and order of events was made specifically for the game, not the TV show. Of course they thought of doing it differently for the game as well. You think these scripts are written by one guy and there is no aspect that can be challenged? There are whole teams agonizing over these things over weeks and months. Several battles would have been fought and what we finally got what would have been the general consensus within the team. Neil takes the final call, of course, and hence bears the responsibility for the decision.

Like I said, call it a bad decision and I won't argue or even disagree. That's subjective and different people appreciate different things. But thoughtless, it ain't. We can, of course, agree to disagree as these opinions were hardened on both sides a long time ago. Or we can explore it further. But if it's just going to be "hurr durr Cuckman is an incompetent woke egotist that loves smelling his own farts", then I'm out. That's already starting from a place of extreme negative bias that is pointless to engage with. Not assuming that's your stance (I don't think it is), but just stating mine.

 

[Bernardougf]

So the storyline of the game really was dogshit and they chose to somewhat change for the series because it would ruin their audience like the game ... you dont get more admission than this.

P.s. and time to watch the cuckman defense force spin this.

 

[ZehDon]

Given how closely the first season stuck to the first game, seeing the show now altering the characters, story structure, and pacing for the second game is a good indication that the show's creatives understand its crippling weaknesses and are making the smart choices to correct them. That's good for HBO TV show and its fan, but it's kinda damning for Naughty Dog.

 

[SkylineRKR]

She will be introduced as a purple boy called Albert.

 

[ElFenomeno]

I still have no idea how people can watch Bella Ramsey on their screen for 45 minutes straight.

 

[Karppuuna]

I still have no idea how people can watch Bella Ramsey on their screen for 45 minutes straight.

If you have a mirror, at least once in you life look at there and ask your self, do i have the bone structure to judging others.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Bad TV show has alterations to appeal to an audience that requires fiction to be even more dumbed down.

 

[TGO]

I find it interesting that Kaitlyn Dever wanted to be Ellie
But either way, I know some of you guys like the show, I think the game is better.
And....why the fuck is this in the game section again!
Stop it!

 

[Mibu no ookami]

He did think beyond it. He wanted the player to feel hatred, confusion and disgust of controlling and saving an unknown character that you actually want to kill going forward. Some people appreciated that thought behind it, while others didn't. And that's fine. You can argue that it was a bad choice of storytelling. But it wasn't thoughtless, in my opinion.

It's kind of wild. So many main characters die in media and people don't get that bent out of shape about it. His death was built up through out the end of the first game. First when he gets impaled and should have probably died from it and then from his actions at the end as if there weren't going to be consequences for his actions.

The only thing I didn't like about TLOUP2 was the pacing. It felt like a slog having to change between characters and putting off objectives. As Ellie, I wanted to get to Abby as much as possible and putting that off by forcing me to play as Abby didn't help make me live a mile in her shoes, it just felt like a slog and made me less interested in her character arc.

I think the goal of getting the player to forgive Abby was probably a mistake and poorly executed. That being said, I think Abby was entirely justified for her actions and if you played TLOUP2 without playing TLOUP1 you probably wouldn't care as much.

I think the game could have been considerably shorter and part of the length of the game combined with the remake not adopting the sequels gameplay makes me not really want to revisit.

 

[Ozzie666]

It's kind of wild. So many main characters die in media and people don't get that bent out of shape about it. His death was built up through out the end of the first game. First when he gets impaled and should have probably died from it and then from his actions at the end as if there weren't going to be consequences for his actions.

The only thing I didn't like about TLOUP2 was the pacing. It felt like a slog having to change between characters and putting off objectives. As Ellie, I wanted to get to Abby as much as possible and putting that off by forcing me to play as Abby didn't help make me live a mile in her shoes, it just felt like a slog and made me less interested in her character arc.

I think the goal of getting the player to forgive Abby was probably a mistake and poorly executed. That being said, I think Abby was entirely justified for her actions and if you played TLOUP2 without playing TLOUP1 you probably wouldn't care as much.

I think the game could have been considerably shorter and part of the length of the game combined with the remake not adopting the sequels gameplay makes me not really want to revisit.

I feel like they really cheaped out by effectively using the same game for us to play through twice as each character. Maybe it was done for costs or schedule. I'm not sure it was the entire plan from the start. But Abby was the best part of the game, her levels were much more interesting. Years later you can easily make an argurment that Joel is the true villain and Abby was justified and maybe even the hero.

 

[Madflavor]

People get overly defensive towards the show and Bella. Sometimes a miscast is a miscast. I have nothing against her, and she is a good actress. But sometimes just being a good actor isn't quite enough to fill in a particular role. The problem inherent with Bella is that she's not physically imposing, and she doesn't look older than her depiction in Season 1. Her beady little eyes physically hinder her from displaying the right emotions at times, or at least not as well as others.

So jumping into Season 2, we now see an older and more grizzled Ellie, and already based on the trailers she just doesn't come off that way. They should've cast a younger actress for Season 1, so we can actually see her grow up. Like people are retarded but they're not THAT retarded. We know the difference 5 years can make from 14 to 19. And it's going to be funny seeing her paired up with Isabela Merced, but I guess maybe Lesbians in the post-apocalypse are slim pickings, so maybe Dinah is settling hard on this one.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I feel like they really cheaped out by effectively using the same game for us to play through twice as each character. Maybe it was done for costs or schedule. I'm not sure it was the entire plan from the start. But Abby was the best part of the game, her levels were much more interesting. Years later you can easily make an argurment that Joel is the true villain and Abby was justified and maybe even the hero.

That's a bit backwards. The environments Ellie and Abby are in are completely different. They could have sold an Abby DLC for 30-40 dollars on top of the regular cost of the game and Ellie's segments alone would have been worth the full price of admission.

I think rather than cheapening out they just did too much.

I'd disagree about which levels were more interesting too. I think Ellie's assassination hunt gave us some of the best levels we've seen. The Subway section, the hospital... The game was epic. It's crazy the hate it gets.

My biggest criticism of Naughty Dog is that I felt they could have done something really special with TLOU P1 Remake by bringing it in line with the gameplay from TLOU2 and not just the graphical fidelity. That game hasn't aged well when it comes to character movement. It's over a decade old. TLOU2 on the other hand shits on most games that have come out in the last few years. The only issue I really have with it is the pacing.

 

[viveks86]

It's kind of wild. So many main characters die in media and people don't get that bent out of shape about it. His death was built up through out the end of the first game. First when he gets impaled and should have probably died from it and then from his actions at the end as if there weren't going to be consequences for his actions.

The only thing I didn't like about TLOUP2 was the pacing. It felt like a slog having to change between characters and putting off objectives. As Ellie, I wanted to get to Abby as much as possible and putting that off by forcing me to play as Abby didn't help make me live a mile in her shoes, it just felt like a slog and made me less interested in her character arc.

I think the goal of getting the player to forgive Abby was probably a mistake and poorly executed. That being said, I think Abby was entirely justified for her actions and if you played TLOUP2 without playing TLOUP1 you probably wouldn't care as much.

I think the game could have been considerably shorter and part of the length of the game combined with the remake not adopting the sequels gameplay makes me not really want to revisit.

Joel dying didn’t bother me the slightest as I just saw it as a fictional character death in a story, a la Ned Stark. It dropped my jaw for a moment and then I wanted to see what next and why. That’s it. But I can see that gamers are not as dispassionate as I when it comes to stories and characters, so someone at naughty dog clearly misjudged how bad the backlash would be. And the leaks didn’t help. A bad business decision, even if one can argue that it was a bold artistic decision.

With regard to the pacing, yeah it was a bit long in the tooth. But i played on grounded from the get go, so every encounter was just a joy to take your time with and figure out. Didn’t care too much about Abby’s companions though. Everything they wanted seemed so petty and they behaved like typical high schoolers, so I felt nothing when they died. Lev and yara were great though. Abby and Lev’s banter was funny, natural and mature. So that kept the pace going for me. I hope the show fleshes all the others out better with meaningful backstories and motivation.

I enjoyed the core arc for Ellie and Abby more than Part 1. But the other side characters more in part 1 than 2.

 

[mitch1971]

If you have a mirror, at least once in you life look at there and ask your self, do i have the bone structure to judging others.

I'm no betting man, but I think most people would look better than Bella Ramsey.

 

[CLW]

 

[Melchiah]

“One of which [is] in the game… you play as Abby. So you immediately form an empathic connection with her because you’re surviving as her."

Yeah, right. No empathy whatsoever. I wish they'll show the events between the capture in Santa Barbara and being tied to a pole on the beach in every graphic detail, just like they did with Joel. That might actually make me watch season 2. It's laughable they decided to spare the player from seeing that in a game where other gruesome fates were lavishly portrayed like torture porn.

 

[N30RYU]

I still have no idea how people can watch Bella Ramsey on their screen for 45 minutes straight.

Must be difficult to you to see your autistic face on the mirror every day

 

[David Ricardo]

Why The Last of Us Season 2 Changes When We Learn About Abby

Kaitlyn Dever plays the impactful, controversial character on HBO's horror show, returning April 13.

gizmodo.com

Instead of later in the season or in season 3, season 2 apparently begins with us finding out right away who Abby is and her connection to Joel and Ellie and what the importance of her as a character is.

Thoughts?

On one hand, it will take away from the surprise of the reveal later on, which is disappointing. On the other hand, I get it. If they didn't do this, it's kinda like "Why are we following this character and why are we supposed to care about her?"

In my opinion, they have to change it because in the show Ellie is ugly, Joel is weak and more apparently morally wrong. So they have to reveal Abby as evil earlier or people will side with her. And many will side with her anyways.