Support NeoGAF

[simpatico]

"HBO didn't let us use a dude in a dress"

Where does the "Abby is a biological woman" theory originate? I'd be open to it; I just haven't seen any evidence pointing to it.

 

[viveks86]

They're corny asses. As expected, they are going to drag out Joel getting 9 ironed for several seasons.

This will happen in the next season, if not the very first episode. There is literally no character arc left for Joel other than mope around for a bit. He won't get more than an hour of screen time the whole season before it happens. Feel free to call this out and serve me crow if it doesn't happen

 

[DrMano]

I

lol nah that just sounds like Dever not wanting to get gains, keep in mind men go thru wild transformations (well women too that are clearly better actors then Dever) go thru this

I mean, Abby is based on a fucking real world person, fuck you talking about? lol

Beautiful, but definitely roided.

 

[kazuyamishima]

Users and not users complained about her being buffed and all.

Now they complain because is not buffed in the show.

What?

 

[DrMano]

Users and not users complained about her being buffed and all.

Now they complain because is not buffed in the show.

What?

Yeah as much as I dislike lou2 I agree that the sentiment is stupid. Entertainment doesn't translate 1:1 between mediums. It would be more interesting if they made Abby into a full blown transgender buff man lol.

 

[FoxMcChief]

They had to because the only person able to play that role is dead.

Not true.

 

[Icymanipulator]

Extremely lame imo. What a cop out.
Yet another bad casting choice for the show.

 

[kiphalfton]

Do they look exactly like the character with their eyebrows or their nose or their body?

Hmm, wonder who that was directed at...

Spoiler

 

[Doom85]

It's possible to find a fat dude in an apocalypse.

You can find fat dudes in literal third world tribes in Africa today, for example.

You can even find fat, wild animals.

What you won't find anywhere in harsh conditions (or even in good conditions) is steroid level jacked women who are somehow bigger and stronger than men that work out equally or even a fraction as hard and have the same access to resources that the women do.

Afterall, according to openpowerlifting.org the strongest female power lifter is only on par with the 9318th strongest male lifter. And this is despite her being 7 years older and about 20 lbs heavier than him.

Read my actual full post. It makes no sense for the sort of character Bill is to be fatter than the entire rest of the cast. Saying “it’s possible to find a fat dude” is missing the point, the issue is that it’s BILL who’s fat and no one else.

Also, why are we comparing power lifters? Joel is nearing 60 by Part 2, and he’s definitely nowhere near a power lifter, LOL. Even if he were, he takes a fucking shotgun blast to the leg before any confrontation with Abby. His strength don’t mean shit after that.

If there were physical confrontations with other male characters, I find it always irritating that certain people can overlook so many other things in action scenes (characters not being affected by bullet wounds as much as they should, characters not getting shot as much as they realistically should, characters having far more ammo before needing to reload than they should, etc.), but suddenly when it comes to a woman’s strength they grab a textbook, put on their glasses, and go, “um, acthually!”

Like, what reasonable person gives a fuck this much? I don’t actually believe Joel singlehandedly taking out dozens of well armed Fireflies by himself is how that scenario would play out, but I’m not acting like it ruins Part 1 or anything. The way some people overanalyze women’s strength in action stores but willingly embrace all other nonsense in action stories is getting beyond tired. Like, if one is going to be biased in certain regards, at least fucking own up to that shit.

 

[mayham2199]

It's possible to find a fat dude in an apocalypse.

You can find fat dudes in literal third world tribes in Africa today, for example.

You can even find fat, wild animals.

What you won't find anywhere in harsh conditions (or even in good conditions) is steroid level jacked women who are somehow bigger and stronger than men that work out equally or even a fraction as hard and have the same access to resources that the women do.

Afterall, according to openpowerlifting.org the strongest female power lifter is only on par with the 9318th strongest male lifter. And this is despite her being 7 years older and about 20 lbs heavier than him.

It's a video game. You also wont find a single person in the world who could have lived and survived what Joel and Ellie did in the first game. What is it about the steroid jacked women that does it for you? You are willing to suspend disbelief at all this other stuff but steroid jacked women is to much? I wont even get into the stealth section with Ellie just running around and we are supposed to pretend the enemy couldn't see her.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Users and not users complained about her being buffed and all.

Now they complain because is not buffed in the show.

What?

Because (at least to me), Abby being muscular AND the game's storytelling being dumb about it was yet another sign of a lack of attention to detail or a preoccupation with superficial story elements (in the way they were portrayed)

Abby not being muscular in the show just reaffirms how stupid that decision was in the game, and the only justification for her body (from a dramatic point of view) is now worthless in the game too.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You can even find fat, wild animals.

examples of this?

 

[awwr999999]

Hilarious. The gym and organic food don't make women look like that.
Being juiced up on trt and HGH can. Which makes it even stupider.

There's a plausible explanation for post-apocalyptic buffed people that's found in the powerful hormones American farmers give to their cattle.
With the collapse of America's cattle farming there would be a near endless supply of unused cattle implants that contain AAS and estrogen.
Guys wouldn't be able to use those, period. Girls OTOH might be able to get massive gains at the expense of extreme rage and behavioral problems.

 

[viveks86]

examples of this?

I can't believe this is what I would be googling after work today. Does this help the conversation?

https://www.animalspot.net/fat-animals

 

[Lokaum D+]

Now i have to believe that a bunch of 16 yo adults ll subdue Joe and Tommy by force ?

 

[EN250]

Who says I'm bitching about her being smoking hot? I'm doing the opposite, I'm saying who cares if she doesn't match the characters appearance.

Am I getting trolled? Like what are you even saying here

Sure, game Cammy is more toned and blonder, but minor details aside, pitch perfect cast (appearance wise anyway)

What is going here, lmao...

 

[Madflavor]

But that was the whole point of the story. How endless retaliation would only wind up with everyone dead. No one is happy or better off at the end of that game. It’s a depressing setup and really drives home what message it was trying to deliver. Continuing down the path they both chose would only result in the end of any happiness they could obtain/ retain.
The ending to the first game was the same. It’s not a happy moment. Ending with Ellie obviously not believing Joel’s story about what happened and it throwing her whole foundation askew for who she believed Joel to be.
We see how that ultimately played out in the 2nd game. Their relationship is extremely strained and she has distanced herself from him because of the betrayal of trust

Yeah but Ellie killed SO many people by that point. It’s honestly too late. So many of Abby’s friends and members of her faction were slaughtered by her. She fucking beat a woman’s head in with a pipe Hannibal Lecter style. Her innocence and soul is beyond tainted. Ellie had two years living in solitude to come to the same conclusion she does during the ending, but she had to give up her family and beat up Abby in a fist fight to get there? Now she forgives Joel, wants to move on and end the cycle of violence. What about the 500 people you killed? What if one of them has an Abby that wants to come after you.

It’s a stupid ending. Would’ve been a better and more poignant ending if Ellie learned to move on and lived peacefully with her family, while Abby and Lev died crucified at the beach, Ellie never knowing whatever became of her. That’s the randomness of life and the harsh reality of the world we live in. Abby chose revenge which takes her on a path that leads to her and her friends death, while Ellie almost dies on her revenge quest, but gets a second chance and learns from it.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Meanwhile, Bill, the crazy survivalist who would above all the other characters focus on minimizing food consumption as best he can and spends his days constantly running around his large “land” to check on his traps as well as head outside for trade meetups, is somehow quite more overweight compared to the entirety of the rest of the cast.

Funny how his physical appearance wasn’t nitpicked to death over “realism” yet Abby’s was.

Read my actual full post. It makes no sense for the sort of character Bill is to be fatter than the entire rest of the cast. Saying “it’s possible to find a fat dude” is missing the point, the issue is that it’s BILL who’s fat and no one else.

Also, why are we comparing power lifters? Joel is nearing 60 by Part 2, and he’s definitely nowhere near a power lifter, LOL. Even if he were, he takes a fucking shotgun blast to the leg before any confrontation with Abby. His strength don’t mean shit after that.

If there were physical confrontations with other male characters, I find it always irritating that certain people can overlook so many other things in action scenes (characters not being affected by bullet wounds as much as they should, characters not getting shot as much as they realistically should, characters having far more ammo before needing to reload than they should, etc.), but suddenly when it comes to a woman’s strength they grab a textbook, put on their glasses, and go, “um, acthually!”

Like, what reasonable person gives a fuck this much? I don’t actually believe Joel singlehandedly taking out dozens of well armed Fireflies by himself is how that scenario would play out, but I’m not acting like it ruins Part 1 or anything. The way some people overanalyze women’s strength in action stores but willingly embrace all other nonsense in action stories is getting beyond tired. Like, if one is going to be biased in certain regards, at least fucking own up to that shit.

Missing the point entirely.

The game is supposed to be "GROUNDED".

Grounded in reality? NO

Grounded in "Hollywood reality"? Yes. meaning; presenting a universe or worldbuilding (for entertainment purposes) in a way that makes you think: "Oh, this could actually happen in the real world"

Billy is fat, but he is not morbidly obese. He is not scavenging for survival, in the context of the game/story Billy is presented as someone who doesn't like to be around other people (group) = more food for himself.

The Abby situation is so stupid because it breaks the grounded aspect of the game, and Neil wasn't very smart either. It's not about Abby's body or strength, but how Neil failed to set things up for it to feel "grounded"

Anyone who has tried to bulk up would know how much food and training it takes, which explains why it was such a controversial aspect of the game.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I can't believe this is what I would be googling after work today. Does this help the conversation?



https://www.animalspot.net/fat-animals

wow, this is very stupid.

 

[Doom85]

Missing the point entirely.

The game is supposed to be "GROUNDED".

Grounded in reality? NO

Grounded in "Hollywood reality"? Yes. meaning; presenting a universe or worldbuilding (for entertainment purposes) in a way that makes you think: "Oh, this could actually happen in the real world"

Billy is fat, but he is not morbidly obese. He is not scavenging for survival, in the context of the game/story Billy is presented as someone who doesn't like to be around other people (group) = more food for himself.

The Abby situation is so stupid because it breaks the grounded aspect of the game, and Neil wasn't very smart either. It's not about Abby's body or strength, but how Neil failed to set things up for it to feel "grounded"

Anyone who has tried to bulk up would know how much food and training it takes, which explains why it was such a controversial aspect of the game.

Again, missing the point entirely.

Bill of all characters would minimize food consumption above all others. He would be absolutely be scavenging for survival, the dude freaks out about anyone taking ANYTHING that he considers his. Anyone who has actually played the game should know this.

It makes no sense for Bill of all characters to be the one who is significantly heavier than the others.

And no, I don’t believe Joel in the real world could pull off some of the things he did. He’s not even former military or anything, the man worked as a contractor. 20 years in a zombie apocalypse would obviously improve his skills, but it would also improve everyone’s skills especially a group like the Fireflies so Joel single-handedly taking on dozens of Fireflies and winning is straight up unbelievable. Especially when he has to be unarmed because he’s carrying Ellie and despite now having to carry her and while multiple Fireflies have lights spotting him, NO ONE gets a shot on him.

Riiiiiiight.

But as I said, I’m not letting such blatant contradictions to reality ruin my enjoyment of the game or narrative.

Your reality vs. Hollywood reality makes no sense when you claim Hollywood reality “could actually happen”, that’s REALITY! Did you not proofread that part at all?

Regardless, let’s not pretend people aren’t choosy about which parts of action scenes they’ll suspend disbelief over versus other parts they won’t suspend disbelief over. I’ve at least talked to a few people in the past who owned up to such a bias. At least they admit it. That’s what I would appreciate, some honesty over the matter rather than pretending this is something it’s not.

 

[gow3isben]

Lets call a spade a spade

Cuckman has a fetish for big buff girls who can carry him around like he’s a baby

The rest of the world mostly doesn’t. He didn’t have the final say in the show so he couldn’t optimize his kink for the show but he had the final say in the game.

 

[viveks86]

wow, this is very stupid.

As in?

 

[kazuyamishima]

Because (at least to me), Abby being muscular AND the game's storytelling being dumb about it was yet another sign of a lack of attention to detail or a preoccupation with superficial story elements (in the way they were portrayed)

Abby not being muscular in the show just reaffirms how stupid that decision was in the game, and the only justification for her body (from a dramatic point of view) is now worthless in the game too.

being buffed was a requirement to kick ass in the game, but it was somehow believable

The fights will be very different in the show now.

 

[Spiral1407]

Don't blame them. Abby has more muscle mass in TLOU2 than most guys. Who would even be able to play her?

 

[xrnzaaas]

They should've hired Alan Ritchson from Reacher and simply have him wear Abby's wig.

But seriously, this show will be remembered as having a series of miscasted roles, this is just another example. Kaitlyn should have been number 1 pick for Ellie, no matter her age.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Again, missing the point entirely.

Bill of all characters would minimize food consumption above all others. He would be absolutely be scavenging for survival, the dude freaks out about anyone taking ANYTHING that he considers his. Anyone who has actually played the game should know this.

the dude has a map and traps all over "his town". he is not scavenging as WE (Joel) do in the game/Davis´s cult.

and as far as we know he could be eating highly processed foods or hunting once in a while and eating like he is rich.

It makes no sense for Bill of all characters to be the one who is significantly heavier than the others.

in fact, the opposite is true. Bill, of all characters, is the only one that makes sense to be fat.

And no, I don’t believe Joel in the real world could pull off some of the things he did.

"Hollywood Real World" = Grounded

NOT REAL WORLD.

He’s not even former military or anything, the man worked as a contractor. 20 years in a zombie apocalypse would obviously improve his skills, but it would also improve everyone’s skills especially a group like the Fireflies so Joel single-handedly taking on dozens of Fireflies and winning is straight up unbelievable. Especially when he has to be unarmed because he’s carrying Ellie and despite now having to carry her and while multiple Fireflies have lights spotting him, NO ONE gets a shot on him.

And no one would stand 10 minutes of crouch walking.

Riiiiiiight.

But as I said, I’m not letting such blatant contradictions to reality ruin my enjoyment of the game or narrative.

"contradictions to reality"

Your reality vs. Hollywood reality makes no sense when you claim Hollywood reality “could actually happen”, that’s REALITY! Did you not proofread that part at all?

"Could actually happen" as in:

Zombieland vs 28 days later
World War Z vs Contagion
resident Evil vs Dawn of the Dead


James bond:
Roger Moore´s era vs Daniel Craigs´s era .

The last Fast and the Furious movies vs The first couple of ones.


what else?

disaster movies like:
2012 vs The Day After Tomorrow.

Aliens:
Close Encounters of the Third Kind vs Contact/Arrival

so on and so forth ....

 

[realcool]

By default, reality constrained one of Neil's creative decisions, leading to a casting choice for the television show that visually aligns with the central conceit of Abby's character: to serve as the other side of the same coin to Ellie, validating a longstanding criticism of Abby's physical appearance in the video game while exposing the foolishness of Neil's insistence on interchangeability.

“In the game, you have to play both characters [Ellie and Abby] and we need them to play differently. We needed Ellie to feel smaller and kind of maneuver around, and Abby was meant to play more like Joel in that she’s almost like a brute in the way she can physically manhandle certain things.

Don't tell Anita this, but it sounds like somebody needs another re-education...

 

[Doom85]

the dude has a map and traps all over "his town". he is not scavenging as WE (Joel) do in the game/Davis´s cult.

and as far as we know he could be eating highly processed foods or hunting once in a while and eating like he is rich.


in fact, the opposite is true. Bill, of all characters, is the only one that makes sense to be fat.

"Hollywood Real World" = Grounded

NOT REAL WORLD.

And no one would stand 10 minutes of crouch walking.



"contradictions to reality"

"Could actually happen" as in:

Zombieland vs 28 days later
World War Z vs Contagion
resident Evil vs Dawn of the Dead


James bond:
Roger Moore´s era vs Daniel Craigs´s era .

The last Fast and the Furious movies vs The first couple of ones.


what else?

disaster movies like:
2012 vs The Day After Tomorrow.

Aliens:
Close Encounters of the Third Kind vs Contact/Arrival

so on and so forth ....

…….okay, if you actually believe stuff like Dawn of the Dead could happen, I’m not really feeling there’s much more to discuss between on us on how reality actually works.

 

[rkofan87]

I didn't like the last of us 2's story for one reason and one alone and it's because we didn't get to kill abby at the end of the game. After she essentially destroyed tommy's life as well as took joel's i wanted her dead and when ellie spared her i was pissed off. It went against ellies motivation throughout the entire game which was revenge. She wanted revenge for joel and she should've wanted revenge for tommy too, but she just decides at the last minute naaa screw this you get to live. It ruined the story for me.

this 1000%

 

[rkofan87]

But everyone in the game ends up dead because ellie is killing them off and leaving bodies in her wake until literally at the last possible moment she decides to not kill abby. She even gives up her relationship with dina and the baby to go kill abby at the end and still dosen't do it. It just didn't connect with me at all and it was terrible to me personally.

me as well cuckmen shit on ellie for fun.

 

[rkofan87]

makes sense to me.

a video game allows for different rules than a live action TV show

cgi is a thing use it

 

[deriks]

TV isn’t like video games. They generally try and make adult female characters (at least slightly) more attractive rather than intentionally making them uglier.

What a crazy concept.

I guess that you didn't see how ugly Ellie actress is

 

[rkofan87]

Off topic. I feel Rhea is much more attractive than Chyna.. Rhea still has some feminine facial features when Chyna looked like Arnold with tits.

this and the voice too buddy is a lucky man.

 

[xanaum]

So here we are at the whole "unrealistic and cliché female body" thing that almost no woman has. The irony? It's actually easier to be a sexy, feminine, and hot woman than a bodybuilder tank full of testosterone.

 

[dcx4610]

It was the right decision. Abby should have been in shape being in the military but they went Crossfit champion levels which wasn't realistic at all in that world. She would have looked lean and sinewy like a Sara Conner in T2 at best. I think the actress they've got to play Abby in the show should kill it.

 

[Three]

Am I getting trolled? Like what are you even saying here

Sure, game Cammy is more toned and blonder, but minor details aside, pitch perfect cast (appearance wise anyway)

What is going here, lmao...

Am I getting trolled? Like did you even see the pics I posted and know what era the street fighter movie is from? Like I said, the most mundane discourse.

 

[DragoonKain]

She’s not muscular because they aren’t gonna find an actress on the planet who can get her arms looking like Bane.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

I didn't like the last of us 2's story for one reason and one alone and it's because we didn't get to kill abby at the end of the game. After she essentially destroyed tommy's life as well as took joel's i wanted her dead and when ellie spared her i was pissed off. It went against ellies motivation throughout the entire game which was revenge. She wanted revenge for joel and she should've wanted revenge for tommy too, but she just decides at the last minute naaa screw this you get to live. It ruined the story for me.

It’s going to be alright.

 

[EN250]

Am I getting trolled? Like did you even see the pics I posted and know what era the street fighter movie is from? Like I said, the most mundane discourse.

Oh ok, you're thinking back in the day with the graphics capabilities of the time or whatever didn't let Capcom make Cammy like she is in SFVI today so her model wasn't as detailed, but I'm damn sure she was conceived as a fighting beauty from the start, like the same way they made Ryu and Ken handsome fighting mfers from the start

 

[Gojiira]

Yep total copout. See if it was a male actor cast for a role as a huge buff character they would be inclined to get into shape, to buff up for the role and likely contractually obliged to do so. And they would still give the ‘performance’ thats desired…

 

[DanielG165]

Because they wanted to cast a female as Abby and females don't look like xe does in the game.

They don’t?

 

[Madflavor]

If you slimmed down Abby and made her far less muscular, does anything fundamentally change about her character or TLOU2's story? I'm talking about the game.

 

[viveks86]

She’s not muscular because they aren’t gonna find an actress on the planet who can get her arms looking like Bane.

They must have scoured the earth to find the ugliest, fat mofo to play The Penguin right?

Not going to argue if it's physically possible or not for a female to exist like that in real life. I personally don't care because it's a video game. I'm enjoying the debate here though. At the minimum, it wouldn't have been practical or advisable for a female actor to bulk up that rapidly. But if they reeeaaally needed that look, it's not the hardest thing to pull off with VFX and prosthetics. Hollywood has done it for ages. They just decided to go a different route with how they present the character.

 

[Hugare]

Left side of the image made me go "wow, it looks just like the game!". Then I saw Ellie and .... Oh God.

I cant get over how different she looks from Ellie. You look at the actor and you just know he is playing Jesse.

They are trying hard to make her look older (clothes and more buffed) but she still looks like a 14y old girl.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Last of us characters keep internet nerds up at night literally checking their phones for what people are saying about Abby, Abby is the more exciting character where people were loyal to the other girl from last of us 1.

 

[Fbh]

Users and not users complained about her being buffed and all.

Now they complain because is not buffed in the show.

What?

Well people who complained when the game came out were told this is a completely normal look you can find at any gym and that most women can easily attain by just working out.
So it's weird that in the live action show they couldn't find any super buff woman to play the role, or any woman willing to work out to attain that physique

 

[Trilobit]

I can't believe this is what I would be googling after work today. Does this help the conversation?

https://www.animalspot.net/fat-animals

Hippos have very little fat and are mostly just muscle.

Rhino:

Many animals with fur have misleading bodies.

I think many water-dwelling mammals might be naturally fat to insulate against the cold and bears overeat to be able to hibernate. And camels are not fat per se, but have adapted humps to be fat storages.

 

[viveks86]

Hippos have very little fat and are mostly just muscle.

Yeah I learnt that from that website write up as well. Probably the only good thing that came out of that effort. I was being silly by sharing it anyway. My original goal was to find wild animals that are atypically fat, where fatness isn't in their nature. Didn't find much on that, outside of ones that have real health issues.

 

[VulcanRaven]

Now i have to believe that a bunch of 16 yo adults ll subdue Joe and Tommy by force ?

Part 2 spoilers:

Spoiler

They did shoot Joel's leg with a shotgun.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Part 2 spoilers:

Spoiler

They did shoot Joel's leg with a shotgun.

Yeah, but they didnt look like a bunch of 16 yo