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The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel |OT| Class Warfare
- Thread starter Dandy Crocodile
- Start date
DrROBschiz
Member
skLaFarebear
Member
Yes!!!!
Eh, I can see why people wouldn't like Estelle. She's a very well written character, but her personality isn't for everyone.
DrROBschiz
Member
Estelle definitely has a rough first impression in FC but once you meet Olivier (I swear he is a catalyst for bringing out the best of each character) it just becomes a rollercoaster and she believably grows as a person as her personality becomes more pronounced
Like I didnt like some of the moments where they felt forced to shoe in her more cliched character traits (and likely what annoyed people) but her mature traits were very compelling. Like her ability to sniff out bullshit and call people on it. Her very powerful motherly instincts. And the fact that she is more clever and thoughtful than people give her credit for
They also gave her flaws, insecurities and a clear set of personal goals
Now give those same hard looks at Rean..... Ugh it hurts
skLaFarebear
Member
I definitely don't disagree with you. She's like in my top 5 favorite characters, I'm just saying I can see why some people don't like her.
I'll also wait for the other CS game before I judge Rean as a character.
DrROBschiz
Member
That kind of makes me sad
An eight leaves dropout and adopted son of Nobles
They really missed the boat here. They could have given him SOMETHING to latch onto.
Its a bummer. I actually liked him and his backstory at first but as I played I found my self liking the other characters more and liking him less
I dunno... he gets a few moments to shine here and there but most interactions that he is given just dont deliver
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Eh my issue is removing the political issues from the story, Rean hits all the main points and tropes of a generic gary sue anime MC character. Atleast from my experiences 70 hours into the game and on chapter 6. Nonetheless first game so its prob setting alot of things up for the 2nd game. So guess we will find out..welp some people already know but I dont
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
My copy came in yesterday. Not going to start it until I finish Xenoblade, but man... it's weird how seeing "Falcom" on a box makes me really excited to play something. That's as good as seal of quality as anything.
DrROBschiz
Member
Like when Estelle gets characters to spill their guts it feels earned and compelling
Why?
Because she is perceptive and empathetic. She is also blunt and pokes people with the right amount consideration and care
Rean on the other hand.... is just there... like some nice guy along for the ride... I dont get why anyone feels connected to him
Why?
Because she is perceptive and empathetic. She is also blunt and pokes people with the right amount consideration and care
Rean on the other hand.... is just there... like some nice guy along for the ride... I dont get why anyone feels connected to him
I think, and this is merely a theory, but that the developers really WERE going for a blank slate character like Persona did, then they changed their mind halfway through development or something; it's the only explanation I can think of for why he's such an inconsistent character.
His range of expressions is really small, and his default look is so bland he could be the cover of an anime oatmeal box.
But he has nice lines. Especially in key situations; plenty of examples, like his answer to whether or not he was a noble. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he isn't nearly this expressive in Japanese though.
But then when interacting with non-cast or unimportant events he's all blank and dull speaking again. He's not a bracer who has to be polite to clients as a rule, but he's still absurdly polite even to people who aren't even formally addressing him; feels unnatural, unless he was supposed to be a blank character who are by rules supposed to be polite to everyone to maintain their neutral design.
He has voices during certain events to emphasize his emotional range. But then there's events where he doesn't talk. It's unfathomable that you would take the time to give voices to every character but the main one unless you were originally planning the main one to never speak to begin with before realizing what an awful idea that is for a game that emphasizes main characters and their stories and personalities.
His integration into the story so far is so... hands off, it's a wonder why he's even there.
YianGaruga
Banned
Rean feels like a silent protagonist to me. He doesn't really have a character (so far)
Oh he will get his moments in CSII yes
Very vague spoiler about Rean:
Moments that turn over everything you thought you knew about him from playing the first game.
Basileus777
Member
That's going too far. He has a character, he just feels like a protagonist from a light novel meant to function partially as a self-insert.
Haha, I feel like you're just as salty as I am about Rean, maybe even more. Based on this, I don't think you'll like him all that much either in the second game, either. I think you'll hate him even more, if anything.
Welcome aboard the USS Salt.
Nightengale
Member
Rean is a less fanatical Emiya Shirou. He is defined by his
and one of the key takeaway regarding Rean's character is that closer to the end of the the first game
His archetype is hardly a favourite. And it's very difficult to do well. I think Rean's execution could be better, definitely.
struggle to find his sense of self
he's the one character who is the most emotionally, extremely emotionally invested in Class VII, his friends. He has made it so that Class VII is effectively the major vector of his universe.
His archetype is hardly a favourite. And it's very difficult to do well. I think Rean's execution could be better, definitely.
DrROBschiz
Member
He can start by reveling a little in his good fortunes
Cracking a few jokes... and for fucks sake saying no and getting mad once in awhile
Maybe be a dick for a bit
SOMETHING
YianGaruga
Banned
Yeah I didn't really find the right words there. Blank slate or self-insert is more what I wanted to say.
I don't really mind it since there are some great characters in the game, but I would have prefered something different.
BassForever
Member
I like Rean he's a lot better then your average self insert jrpg protagonist, of course when you go from Estelle one of the best protagonist/female protagonist ever to Rean who's decent-good it makes him look worse then he actually is imo
Nightengale
Member
That's not his character.
Love it or hate it, he's established as somewhat of a fanatical dude who prioritizes other's happiness over himself to his demerit, because he has a very weak sense of self, derived from his emotional baggage.
I don't know. Shirou is a lot more compelling character than Rean is, even as a dense protagonist of an eroge. The guy was literally dead inside.
Nightengale
Member
Conceptually they're similar, but Shirou is far and above (as far as CS1 as well ) the better written version of "character wih insane amounts of empathy due to distorted sense of self-worth"
Thus me saying Rean could've been written a bit better.
I mean, the one time his bullshit gets called out, it's by Jusis and every other time, he gets just a light slap in the wrist
DrROBschiz
Member
Boooooooo
What a downgrade from Estelle. Sorry I know im being pissy about it
Its just a shame cuz I know hes never gonna have interactions that suck my face to the screen
Its stupid cuz all these amazing things happen to him and around him and he never gives into ANY of it in a compelling way
Praise Jusis, I would take him as the MC any day.
DrROBschiz
Member
He would have been WAAAAAYYY better
Has a nice chip on his shoulder and isnt shy
Lots of room for compelling writing and drama there.
Shouta
Member
Yeah, I'm not as much of a fan of Estelle as I am her journey. She gets a lot mileage from the FC and SC setup where they required her to be interacting otherwise there wouldn't be a lot going on. That kind of happens when it's a real slow burn.
Rean's situation is pretty different. He has a fairly large cast from the get go to interact with and never really gets into a situation where there's less than a full party with him. The other characters will also interact with other characters around them at school, so there's just a lot less time for Rean to chucking dialogue back and forth. There's also the fact Rean is written with a degree of choice in mind for the player so they can decide who to spend time with. So he sticks closer to a baseline than where he'd be if there were no choice there.
I'm OK with the trade-off. With CS, you have a more standard protagonist but the setting is just more lively because you have more characters and npcs doing their thing. Rean also ends up taking center stage in CS2 more as a result of all the building they do with CS1.
Edit: Rean does have a personality but it's not laid out in CS1 in a way that makes it easy to understand without putting a bit more thought into it. He has problems and the way he approaches things is definitely a part of that.
DrROBschiz
Member
Thats the problem though
There IS no weight to the choices so we are left with a character that is wholly unmolded
Dont get me started on the
whole hidden power transformation shit
That whole scene with him, his sister etc was a giant groan fest
Jusis is the man. He's top tier and he knows it. Can't even be bothered to waste his time on scrap characters that can only attempt to belittle him. Not enough of those types of characters in games. I'm waiting for him to call everyone else dweebs at this point.
What I ultimately get from this reference is that that place must be super salty.
Shouta
Member
There isn't meant to be weight to the choices. It's just building extra relationships.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
I cringe more during those scenes. As soon as I saw his
sister in chapter 3
Novel Mike
Member
I think the idea of Rean is the straight man who is constantly stuck with very abstract characters. All of his interactions either have him...
A. Helping someone to resolve their problems
B. Being teased endlessly by multiple characters BECAUSE of him not being an oddball
C. Being the object of a joke in order to tease other people
I do think he could have better characterization overall (which I'm assuming we might get in the sequel) but hes a very good natured person and was brought up that way and I think his other friends point out his flaws really well, and one major thing...
Up to chapter 4 spoilers.
I think this really comes to play throughout the rest of the story and in the very end...
MAJOR SPOILERS DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T BEAT THE GAME!!!
I just hope we see CS2 expanding on his character.
A. Helping someone to resolve their problems
B. Being teased endlessly by multiple characters BECAUSE of him not being an oddball
C. Being the object of a joke in order to tease other people
I do think he could have better characterization overall (which I'm assuming we might get in the sequel) but hes a very good natured person and was brought up that way and I think his other friends point out his flaws really well, and one major thing...
Up to chapter 4 spoilers.
Laura bringing up how he cares about others more then himself is a major part of his character, he risks his life to save Alisa whom he had just met and then later on when he speaks to Elise his thoughts on the future on about making the lives of him family members easier by him going away, he clearly is willing to sacrifice himself to make other peoples lives easier.
MAJOR SPOILERS DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T BEAT THE GAME!!!
When he is forced to flee on Valimar alone and abandon his friends despite them wanting him to do that he won't have it, he rather himself get hurt or die then any of them do the same and hes taken away basically kicking and screaming that he needs to help them the whole time even as they are flying away.
I get the feeling he just flat out doesn't care about himself or his life, I mean hes not emo or anything but if he was given a choice to save himself or his friends there would be no hesitation for him to save his friends, even many self sacrificing people have at least some form of self preservation where as I think Rean really doesn't, and I think this plays into him being so dense as well, he may develop feelings for someone depending on whom you choose at the end of the game but I don't think he sees how much people actually care about him because he doesn't really love himself so how could anyone else? I'm making this more dramatic then I mean it to sound, I don't think its THAT extreme of a thing I think its just a big part of the way he thinks and prioritizes things.
I get the feeling he just flat out doesn't care about himself or his life, I mean hes not emo or anything but if he was given a choice to save himself or his friends there would be no hesitation for him to save his friends, even many self sacrificing people have at least some form of self preservation where as I think Rean really doesn't, and I think this plays into him being so dense as well, he may develop feelings for someone depending on whom you choose at the end of the game but I don't think he sees how much people actually care about him because he doesn't really love himself so how could anyone else? I'm making this more dramatic then I mean it to sound, I don't think its THAT extreme of a thing I think its just a big part of the way he thinks and prioritizes things.
I just hope we see CS2 expanding on his character.
DrROBschiz
Member
Maybe I should twist things a little and remember the things I like about Rean
- His love of Motorcycles. Probably one of the few cools scenes and the only connection I felt to him. Finally... he gets to show that hes interested and enjoys something.
- His love of women. Unfortunately he just cant bring himself to capitilize on this. He gets a few great lines sprinkled here and there but otherwise goes "oh its not what you think and Im totally not into anyone" route. For once I would like him to effin play the game son!
- Likes radio. They dont do much special here but hey im taking all the characterization scraps i can get
- Seems to like solving peoples problems. Its what i also hate about him. Maybe if they painted him more as a manipulator or someone with agency. Instead nope... just a selfless good guy. Always bright, smiling and happy to help for nothing. I know they are framing this AS HIS flaw but.... its just such a boring and dumb one
Sorry I know i was trying to stay positive about Rean here lol
- His love of Motorcycles. Probably one of the few cools scenes and the only connection I felt to him. Finally... he gets to show that hes interested and enjoys something.
- His love of women. Unfortunately he just cant bring himself to capitilize on this. He gets a few great lines sprinkled here and there but otherwise goes "oh its not what you think and Im totally not into anyone" route. For once I would like him to effin play the game son!
- Likes radio. They dont do much special here but hey im taking all the characterization scraps i can get
- Seems to like solving peoples problems. Its what i also hate about him. Maybe if they painted him more as a manipulator or someone with agency. Instead nope... just a selfless good guy. Always bright, smiling and happy to help for nothing. I know they are framing this AS HIS flaw but.... its just such a boring and dumb one
Sorry I know i was trying to stay positive about Rean here lol
Ding ding ding ding! Someone is picking up on what I've been trying to say about Rean on multiple forums now.
There are a LOT of subtle things you should be looking for with him.
And you have nothing to worry about with your hopes on that, too. Kondo has promised that Cold Steel II is the gamechanger of the series. And it absolutely is.
(Though, I'll admit, that I'm not entirely sure of the impact that it'll have without 3rd ~ Ao in on this, as well, though...)
DrROBschiz
Member
Please please go into detail then
I just went over what I like about him to soften my perspective but I still can hardly stand him
The best part is whenever everyone's saying cheesy lines, he's usually quiet. Either that, he adds some sarcastic, asshole-ish comment. Either in response to Millium or someone else.
And either I'm mishearing things but I'm pretty sure Jusis never says anything in those all-cheer moments in the class. Would be funny if true.
DrROBschiz
Member
I love how flustered he gets over Millium
"Can someone get this damn kid away from me"
I'm with you. I think if you're trying to compare characters to Estelle they're going to come up short because of how well written she was.
Rean's a pretty cool character, I like how he generally sees through people's bullshit and realizes things that the player knows a hell of a lot faster than most JRPG characters do. (Chapter 4)
Bleublanc's side quest, for instance
how he never really picks up on Emma's connection to Celine and never questions her when she's poorly trying to cover things up
This is what Novel Mike was going into. And it's a bit deeper than just that.
Up to Chapter 4 Spoilers
What Novel Mike was saying earlier is that Laura's pointed out Rean's selflessness is to a fault, too. To the point that he's more than willing to put himself in the line of danger than let someone else do it. When you think about people like that, you think they have no sense of self-preservation or whatnot.
Something I've always picked up on Rean is that his desire to help others is not too unlike another Kiseki character- whose main game sadly didn't get a release here (yet?) - but directed in a different manner. He doesn't care about himself, and he doesn't care about the situation he's been thrown on, but he does try to help others in it and make it easier on them, as I've picked up.
Something I've always picked up on Rean is that his desire to help others is not too unlike another Kiseki character- whose main game sadly didn't get a release here (yet?) - but directed in a different manner. He doesn't care about himself, and he doesn't care about the situation he's been thrown on, but he does try to help others in it and make it easier on them, as I've picked up.
Series Spoilers in Case People were curious about something I kept vague in my previous spoiler:
The other character unnamed in the above spoiler is Kevin, who is the series' poster child of crippling self-loathing.
And people here also have Estelle's full story to go off of, since both FC and SC are complete. I mean, is Estelle really the same person in SC as she was at the start of FC? Not at all. And Cold Steel is absolutely not all of Rean's story. Hell, I would even dare to go as far as to say it isn't even fully complete in Cold Steel II.
DrROBschiz
Member
The Bleublanc read was pretty cool i suppose. Wouldn't have minded Rean gloating once and awhile lol
As far as calling people out? He really doesnt do that as opposed to solving the puzzle of a problem with some clever idea
He doesnt really get confrontational, emotional and challenge the other characters in a compelling way. I would much rather see him get in an actual argument with someone that keep reading him "save the day" all the time.
Because arguments dig up shit and reveal character traits. Being awesome guy who easily solves everyones problems doesnt..
Nah, you're right. Though I will say FC Estelle still left a bigger impression than Rean, I realize that he's still got more story to go. Like I said, I really like Rean's character I just think Estelle's stronger.
I had the conversation with my friend about CS, between Trails in the Sky and Cold Steel I think Estelle is the best character but CS has a more enjoyable ensemble. I love both series though and I can't wait for CS2.
I'm not saying Estelle isn't the better character. ;D She's one of my favorite characters of the entire series and absolutely hard to top.
But Rean is one of the characters in the Kiseki series to make me flip out on an emotional level thanks to CS2. I think he gets much better- and you have to play through ALL of CS2 to get why I'm saying this, too.
DrROBschiz
Member
Agreed though as far as enjoyable ensembles go id say both series are pretty close.
God I hope so because right now he is driving me crazy
Dragonslayer_023
Banned
Oh lord costume DLC, guess I need to buy it.
CS could have been about Olivier school years with Mueller as your side-kick.
Think of the possibilities!
But yeah, Rean is pretty dull.