Hehe yeah.....
Absolutely awful just straight up he nightmare locks your entire party and then kills you without anyone being able to retaliate.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel |OT| Class Warfare
- Thread starter Dandy Crocodile
- Start date
Hehe yeah.....
Augemitbutter
Member
it was a good boss.
his nightmare stuff doesn't have big range. it's not that tough if you spread out, doable without items. took me a few tries too.
Not when he's constantly spawning in minions that do the same 3 turns of nightmare on hit every turn.
I'm glad that I still had a save file right before going out to the dungon because that might have been the end of my playthrough.
Since then, I made sure to purchase enough accessories to cover every possible status effect on all four party members. I wanted to do it earlier but Steel is stingy as hell with mira for most of the game.
Exactly. I tried the fight a few times with only one green pendulum. It wasn't even close.
(Playing on Hard)
Augemitbutter
Member
i have those arte interrupting quartz equipped. i had rean and laura parked on the side to just interrupt/kill the small ones and buff the party. cp build up pretty quick in this fight. you can basically just wear the boss out with area attacks, he doesn't have much hp. i believe he's mutable too. took me a few tries because the game teaches you to be cocky, but he's really doable. i'm playing on hard too.
Basileus777
Member
This isn't going to work, Vita saves are linked to an account and unlike with the PS3, the encryption hasn't been busted wide open.
Yeah, I tried fiddling around with it a bit but didn't get anywhere. Sorry for wasting your time Famassu!
So yeah, if someone happens to have a PS3 clear save file, I'd love to take it off your hands.
StereoVsn
Member
This is it pretty much. Machias is terrible, Alisa is boring and annoying, and Jusis is meh. That's such a difference from the first two Trails games.
I made it to Chapter 2 and she still is boring, annoying and terrible. On the plus side I have time for friendship events with that Class President character who at least is somewhat amusing if also tropey as hell.
So far I am disappointed in the characters and the story. Oh and I really hate the class instructor. She is just as bad as Alisa.
Edit: So far this game managed to squander the good will that the first two games built up. If this continues I probably won't be picking up the sequel which is kind of shocking for me.
On the plus side I do dig the battle system as I think it's more dynamic and more fun (seems more broken but I don't mind that in SP).
skLaFarebear
Member
To be fair, I can't say I really cared for half of the Sky cast until SC which gave the rest of them the level of development that Estelle and Joshua got in FC. Agate, Schera, Kloe, and Zane didn't have much to them until we got to SC with Estelle, Joshua, and Olivier really being the only standouts in FC, so it's hard for me to draw conclusions on any character until we see the whole picture.
Obviously some characters just get more focus than others and get more chances to standout, but I think the characters in CS1 are fine for what they were especially when you consider the size of the cast.
I think if I had to compare Sky FC to CS1, I'd say that CS1 has a far better combat system and a much more ambitious story that takes a bit longer to get going than FC's did, but the characters definitely aren't as strong. Though at the moment, I definitely prefer Rean as a character and main protagonist when compared to Joshua.
From ranking the 3 games, I'd probably go SC>CS1>FC. The first half of CS1 is more of a slog than FC in comparison, but the second half of CS1 especially the events towards the end far exceed the events of FC.
Obviously some characters just get more focus than others and get more chances to standout, but I think the characters in CS1 are fine for what they were especially when you consider the size of the cast.
I think if I had to compare Sky FC to CS1, I'd say that CS1 has a far better combat system and a much more ambitious story that takes a bit longer to get going than FC's did, but the characters definitely aren't as strong. Though at the moment, I definitely prefer Rean as a character and main protagonist when compared to Joshua.
From ranking the 3 games, I'd probably go SC>CS1>FC. The first half of CS1 is more of a slog than FC in comparison, but the second half of CS1 especially the events towards the end far exceed the events of FC.
StereoVsn
Member
I think Schera had decent characterization... And she was likable as a character vs say your instructor in CS1 who kind of falls into same role... Except she is hugely annoying.
I would rather have smaller and better overall cast vs larger amorphous one. Oh, and MC is obviously a lot better in Trails with Estelle and Joshua hugely above Rean.
Edit: How is Rean better then the dynamic duo of Estelle and Joshua? MC makes me want to slap him for that middle of the road Manga MC behavior. IMO, at least for the first 10 hours Joshua (not to mention Estelle) we much much better.
skLaFarebear
Member
I think you need to give both Rean and Sara more of a chance. They seem like nothing in the beginning, but they both have a ton of depth to them in comparison to, well, pretty much everyone else in the game.
And I'm not saying anyone in FC was bad, they're all quite good. They just didn't have much to them as characters until SC which gave me a much greater appreciation for its side characters in comparison to FC.
psynergylover
Member
it almost was for me, or atleast I'd would had to go back about a couple of hours because my other save was around arriving in
Legram
Machias is super annoying, but for a pretty good reason that'll be explained later on. He does get a bit less annoying in the chapter you're in and becomes even more tolerable the further you get into the game. Jusis is a bit of a snob-ish noble, but he has such fun dialogue mocking people (other than Machias, the crap between those two gets old pretty fast) that you can easily forgive that.
She gets better. She acts a bit childish about her mother, but she grows throughout the game. You're ONLY in Chapter 2 out of 7. There's still plenty of room for all characters to grow.
So the problem is with you.
Sara is awesome.You're only in the second chapter. There's some fun stuff near the end of that chapter and it starts to kick into higher gear in Chapter 3. And the final few/couple of hours are insane. I'd be surprised if you still thought about not continuing to Cold Steel II after that. The characters have come a long way at that point and the story just goes off the hook.
I'm getting close to the end and it's clear that Rean has some interesting characteriztion that isn't apparent for most of the game... but I'm still not a big fan. Estelle cracks me up like few other JRPG protagonists and I love her relationship with Joshua.
My favorite character in CS is probably Sara.
INCIDENTALLY, I love the way Sara says "You guys are the best!" in the chapter summary screen.
My favorite character in CS is probably Sara.
INCIDENTALLY, I love the way Sara says "You guys are the best!" in the chapter summary screen.
YianGaruga
Banned
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Love Sara. She's this really sarcastic ball breaker who really cares and plays to win when the chips are down. Badass weapon as well.
Basileus777
Member
Here's a clear data with everything maxed out that I found. It has enough NG+ points to carry over everything, though you might not want to bring over the status unless you want to crush everything with level 99 characters. You'll probably need to resign this to your account, but I'm not entirely sure if it's required for this game.
StereoVsn
Member
Machias is super annoying, but for a pretty good reason that'll be explained later on. He does get a bit less annoying in the chapter you're in and becomes even more tolerable the further you get into the game. Jusis is a bit of a snob-ish noble, but he has such fun dialogue mocking people (other than Machias, the crap between those two gets old pretty fast) that you can easily forgive that.
She gets better. She acts a bit childish about her mother, but she grows throughout the game. You're ONLY in Chapter 2 out of 7. There's still plenty of room for all characters to grow.
So the problem is with you.
You're only in the second chapter. There's some fun stuff near the end of that chapter and it starts to kick into higher gear in Chapter 3. And the final few/couple of hours are insane. I'd be surprised if you still thought about not continuing to Cold Steel II after that. The characters have come a long way at that point and the story just goes off the hook.
Sara is once again a walking trope of the drinking late 20s/early 30s female mentor character with a heart of gold who can't get a boyfriend. I mean you have that in every anime it seems.
For other characters, I shall see. It's disappointing even if they improve since there was really no reason to shove unlikable and boring cast in there even if they change for the better. You still run through significant chunk of the game with them at the "low point".
Again, compare with first two Trail games.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Hmm I believe I can understand where you are coming from.
If you dont like the characters now, I would believe you most likely wont like them in the end. But overall plot is still great so keep going and see what happens. Maybe I am wrong..
Wait, you can get additional NG+ points? I assumed they were set.
Basileus777
Member
I believe you get 5 per game clear. So if you beat the game three times you get 15 and can carry over everything.
I think though in FC, characters don't stay with you long. For the most part, it's just Estelle and Joshua, and their story while other characters dip in and out of your roster (very quickly, I might add; Olivier, Schera, Agate and Zane all have short segments). In SC is where characters that were on the side start to weave their way into the main plot; actually extremely well done when you consider the small "foundations" the side characters created in FC as they joined and left your party. And Estelle and Joshua have a long history of years together under Cassius before they start off too, so they have that big advantage.
In that sense, I'd say FC = SC > CS1 for characters that you can really like on multiple facets. IMO, Rean drags the game down pretty hard until the final parts and makes a whole lot of events very unconvincing because he hasn't truly earned what he gets.
Shouta
Member
But Sky characters are tropey too. Energetic tomboy girl, composed kid with a dark past, rough aroubd the edges, fiery mercernary that loved his family, etc.
If you don't like the char, that's fine but bad because they are a trope is silly.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Outside of the opening impressions in the first dungeon none of the characters are defined by those tropes and incredibly quickly move way out of them developing strong and interesting personalities none of them I found even remotely bad.
Damn, thank you! I tried googling but couldn't find one for the life of me.
This is fantastic, you've saved me a replay or two!
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Just wrapped things up. What a wild finish.
I really need to play Trails of Cold Steel II now. I'm just glad the wait won't be as long as for SC.
Super spoilery thoughts.
I really need to play Trails of Cold Steel II now. I'm just glad the wait won't be as long as for SC.
Super spoilery thoughts.
So Crow being C was obvious, and Sharon being from Ouroboros was, too, but I really didn't see Vita/Misty being an anguis. I had figured that her and that bird were connected to Emma/Celine, but the other reveal really shocked me. And I was really shocked at Osborne getting shot.
Pretty much the whole end is great, with the teachers fighting (Go Beatrix), and everyone from the school coming together. But that cliffhanger is just evil. I really need to find out what happens next.
Pretty much the whole end is great, with the teachers fighting (Go Beatrix), and everyone from the school coming together. But that cliffhanger is just evil. I really need to find out what happens next.
skLaFarebear
Member
I'm perfectly fine with the story that FC tells. It has its advantages and disadvantages where having FC be the "Joshua and Estelle" story helps bring the focus to a smaller scale and works as a great introduction to the franchise and the world, but because of that, there just isn't much depth to it compared to the other games in the series. CS1 has a much larger (and imo a still really good cast), but they just don't have the same amount of focus that was given to Joshua and Estelle and it hurts as a result of that. However, I'm still perfectly fine with the direction CS1 has taken as a result of that.
You have to remember that the context is really important here when it comes to the cast. The Joshua and Estelle story of FC works excellently because its an introduction to a world in a country that is much smaller than its neighbors. Having a smaller and more focused cast is the right decision to make for that context. However, that same kind of focus just can't fly when you're 6 games in and having the game finally take place in what I think is the largest country in the world, Erebonia. It would be a huge disservice to that game and that world to not have a much more sizable cast than anything we've seen before. And I think CS1 does its job excellently of introducing that cast and giving them (as much as they possibly could) enough screen time to make them feel like unique characters.
From what I hear of CS2 from others who have played it, I have faith in Falcom to give the characters the proper development they deserve and by the end, be able to stand with the Sky characters.
I also disagree with what you say about Rean. He's
constantly putting others before him and does everything he can to help the other characters by repairing their relationships with other characters. He's earned the respect his classmates/teachers have given him, and I think by the end there's a lot of potential to his character to make him something really special by the end of his story, though it'll be hard to be able to match up with Estelle.
I'm not sure if I agree with the idea of a larger country meaning that you have to have more cast members. That might work on a basic logical scale but not on a "game" scale as you can see with Cold Steel it didn't really work out when it came to giving you a bigger reason to connect with characters other than just spending some time doing small things with them. Many characters who are introduced then disappear for large sections of the game (deliberately split up by the plot, as well). Take Jusis, who
basically dumps his life story on you in Chapter 2, and then he might as well not be there for the rest of the story
I mean the game literally sets them as "bonding events" that you have to aim for; talk about a packaged experience that really is the only way you can work in these relationships with such a large number of people that would normally be unwieldy to deal with. And you can miss so, so many of these events. To me, "focus" isn't something that you can choose to ignore in favor of something else, it's a necessary thing that a game must have if you want to emphasize characters and their connections. I think the game should've been structured in a more focused way instead of going for the self-insert style.
When it comes to Rean.
Ultimately all he does is be a nice guy though. Take the event between Alisa and Rean in Chapter 3 where Alisa basically tells you her whole life story. What on earth has Rean done to earn such a response?
Machias and Jusis come to an understanding because of Machias eavesdropping, not because Rean has done anything for instance (though he does guilt-trip them pretty hard by getting injured) yet he receives credit from his other classmates and Sara keeps shoving him into leadership roles all the same.
He's inquisitive and humble to a ridiculous level, I think that kind of behavior doesn't really lend itself to someone trusting you with their heaviest stuff. Like I said before, it feels really unnatural, bestowing this god status of personability on such a guy where everyone feels the need to pander to you and trust you unconditionally when you haven't the guts, words or actions to show for it (or barely proven anything so far).
Hell, pretty much every chapter is a group effort from everyone involved thinking on it now yet many times Alisa is all ready to spill the beans to you like you've known her for a long time. So weird. All those moments between you and her would've been the same if you had swapped Rean with any other character.
Machias and Jusis come to an understanding because of Machias eavesdropping, not because Rean has done anything for instance (though he does guilt-trip them pretty hard by getting injured) yet he receives credit from his other classmates and Sara keeps shoving him into leadership roles all the same.
He's inquisitive and humble to a ridiculous level, I think that kind of behavior doesn't really lend itself to someone trusting you with their heaviest stuff. Like I said before, it feels really unnatural, bestowing this god status of personability on such a guy where everyone feels the need to pander to you and trust you unconditionally when you haven't the guts, words or actions to show for it (or barely proven anything so far).
Hell, pretty much every chapter is a group effort from everyone involved thinking on it now yet many times Alisa is all ready to spill the beans to you like you've known her for a long time. So weird. All those moments between you and her would've been the same if you had swapped Rean with any other character.
StereoVsn
Member
How is Sara not defined as a full on trope? At least a bit into Chapter 2 both her and Alisha are boring and uninteresting. Machias is just a terrible char on his own.
I don't think size of the country has anything to do with the story. Joshua and Estelle games were more focused with better characterization. Also, their characters were just more fun. Again, keep in mind that I just started chapter 2 here.
SC->=FC>>>>>CS1 to me so far with writing, story and characters. Battle system is a lot better in CS1 though.
Because she is introduced using a trope to give you some immediate ideas about the character but isn't defined by it she's not a cardboard cutout that follows the trope and doesn't do anything else.
Uninteresting is purely an opinion I like the other female cast more than Alisa but I would in no way consider her uninteresting. Same with Machias I personally like Machias and how he bounces off of Jusis throughout the story.
StereoVsn
Member
Tomboy girl changes quite a bit and she is both interesting and fun character from the start. Joshua is brooding but he is interesting at least and his story unfolds pretty well. At the same stage in FC as in CS1 I was a lot more invested in chars and they were more interesting.
StereoVsn
Member
At least through the prologue and Ch.1 there is nothing distinctive about Sara or Alisa that you couldn't find in whole bunch of random Anime or Manga. There is no other side, just the one grating and boring.
Give me an example here because so far I have seen nothing to even think either is not completely cookie cutter to their tropes.
Sara gets way more interesting in Chapter
4
I agree she was mostly just annoying at the start though.
YianGaruga
Banned
Sometimes characters are introduced as one-sided and annoying or boring and stay that way for a while so the character development in the future is more impactful
also it's impossible to make a cast of like 15 characters equally as interesting at the same time. characters, even main ones from your class, are explored and expanded throughout the entire game. It's a big part of how the game is structured.
just play the game
also it's impossible to make a cast of like 15 characters equally as interesting at the same time. characters, even main ones from your class, are explored and expanded throughout the entire game. It's a big part of how the game is structured.
just play the game
skLaFarebear
Member
For your first point, we'll just have to disagree. I think each character in class 7 serves a very important role in the game whether its in the plot itself or whether in the culture/family they represent. In a country made up of multiple ideals and beliefs I just can't accept that the game should have a smaller and tighter focus in the way Sky does as we'd be missing on so many pieces of what makes Erebonia so grand. I thought the characters were interesting enough to make me care about each one of them, but again ymmv.
As for Rean
you're really selling him short as the leader. He was very confrontational about Jusis and Machias right from the beginning in trying to get them to work together, and he took the initiative in the sewers by forcing Laura and Fie to work together when they couldn't get the link to work. If you think he's bland because of his ridiculous levels of humbleness, then that's fine. But i have no clue where this idea that he hasn't earned the respect of his peers and instructors when he's done so much for all of them comes from, as class 7 would be nowhere near where they were without him. A number of my points also hinges on what CS2 manages to accomplish for these characters, but for the first game i think they managed to accomplish a lot in setting the stage in a meaningful way where i really care about happened to all of the characters left behind in the school.
Only from where you are right now.
Alisa Tsundere trope is gone after the very opening of Chapter 1. She literally apologizes for the way she acted (against the trope) and then moves on to be a more friendly and open character (against the trope). One of her major character flaws is how she keeps things to herself and doesn't like to lean on others (against the "rich girl" and "tsundere" tropes). If anything she begins to move into the bubbly carefree girl trope but reigns it in with her personal worries and struggles keeping her well rounded throughout
StereoVsn
Member
Yes, that particular side is gone but she is still grating and uninteresting.
I didn't have any problems with any of the characters except for Machias & Jusis' bickering and a certain character you haven't been introduced to yet being the worst character ever (in a Trails game I've played so far), so I dunno, seems like you're just easy to annoy & quick to judge rather than them being horrible characters meant to annoy the hell out of you. I mean, after the apology I don't remember Alisa doing anything so extreme that I'd see it have the power to annoy anyone. Even at their tropies moments the dialogue is usually above average and other people can call out the dumb shit the others do, so it's not like the game is completely oblivious to the fact that some of the stuff these teenagers do is childish, like teenagers tend to be.
Don't understand what's problematic about a booze-loving mentor type, though. Most characters in Kiseki games (even in FC & SC) are pretty common tropes (at least initially), until they get some development & show more depth.
StereoVsn
Member
I don't think I am quick to annoy or judge at all. I played through all the Tales of games in recent years after all and if you are talking "Power of Friendship", there is very few games out there dumber then say Graces F. I just don't expect great characters out of Tales.
I played through Fairy Fencer F on Steam. I mean talk about dumb characters. I played through Ni No Kuni's battle system and BS that was Bravely Default.
I have rarely had RPG characters grate on my nerves as some of the crew in CS1 and that's in over 20 years of gaming. What made it even more unfortunate is that I absolutely love Trails 1&2 and its characters.
Thinking through this is also due to (so far) lack of spine and the whole friendship theme of the MC. If he was handled better initially maybe the several annoying characters would have come out better.
On the subject of Sara, it's just she is just a cardboard trope so far and doesn't even make that fun to deal with. Scherazard was also tropey but her dialogue and characterization is interesting and fun.
And that comes down to opinion. Alisa may have been my least favorite female from the main group but I loved the whole cast including her.
Man, opinions truly are an interesting thing. I personally count TiTS' Estelle and Joshua among some of the most annoying RPG protagonists I've seen, and aside from Machias and Jusis' bickering, I've really enjoyed all main CS characters and their interactions so far.
On a completely different note, god bless fast-forward and quick travel. Took me only a couple of hours to get back to where I was (late ch2) on a new save.
Basileus777
Member
Everything worked out fine with it?
skLaFarebear
Member
Think im gonna replay the game on NG+ for the platinum trophy. Any good guides out there for a platinum?
Basileus777
Member
skLaFarebear
Member
Looks awesome. Thanks!
Yeah, had to resign it, but after that it worked perfectly. Thanks again!
StereoVsn
Member
Oh yes, definitely glad they took Persona's travel options alongside Social Links. Both are great features.
For character opinions , certainly, it's all IMO, I was just surprised that they were that bad (again, IMO) and I have played many RPGs with terrible characters.