The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap ^_^

*adopts dubiously camp Tingle voice*

YAYYYYY!

I haven't been posting much or replying as much as I usually do because I have been totally absorbed in Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap and Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.

I bought Echoes one day prior and thought that game would have the bulk of my time for at least the remainder of the month, but I was wrong. Prime 2 is awesome, make no mistake. It's a rediculously detailed world (I'm not just talking graphically) and I've been having a lot of fun in it. I'd only just beaten Amorbis and gotten the Dark Suit to make Dark Aether a little bit less daunting... when I picked up Minish Cap.

I haven't gotten very far in Echoes since.

I've just got to the final boss in the Wind Temple in the clouds... This is one of the best Zelda's ever. Flagship and Capcom deserve a lot of praise for this IMO. From what I can tell the plot is evolving as something of a Four Swords prequel.


Basic story (with spoilers)

The origins of Vaati and the Four Sword.

At the beginning (as in many Zelda games of late), you are asleep. Zelda has come to your house to drag you around the Hyrule Town fait in honour of the centenarian visits of a people known as the Picori. Once upon a time, the Picori forged a blade with which the hero of men slayed evil itself, and banished it. As part of these celebrations a swordsmanship contest takes place, and this year the winner is a man called Vaati. You are present when he comes to claim his prize:- an audience with Hyrule Castle and a chance to touch the Great Blade itself. The blade is embedded into a chest. Vaati reveals his true colours, attacking the chest, unleashing monsters upon the world, breaking the blade and turning Princess Zelda to stone. As a result - it's your job to seek out the Picori, fix the blade, and deal with Vaati -
who soon starts a search for something called the 'Light Force'
. So far, you have been running about as cute, floppy haired, bed-head Link. Until now, that is. On entering the Minish Woods, you find a rather anthropomorphised green hat screaming at you for help... you rush to his aid, discovering later that his true identity is Ezlo, and the true name of the Picori people is the Minish.
Ezlo, in a Star Wars-esque Master-Padawan type scenario, has unfinished business with Vaati.
And so your adventure begins.


Impressions - Difficulty

For me, this game showcases a very new balance of things in terms of difficulty. The earlier dungeons are fairly straight foreward, and the bosses not too taxing - and you get eased into the whole Honey-I-Shrunk-The-Link business. That isn't to say either aspect is too easy, it's just that early on - you hopefully won't die very much. It's VERY well thought out. As soon as you start wandering around Hyrule Town (not far from your starting point), you can see tiny door ways, path-like flower arrangements, and tiny bridges over water, ladders up bookcases etc. But it's all laid out so that it's both realistic, and impossible to get everywhere straight away. Link has had a history of just waltzing into peoples' houses and smashing pots unannounced, but no more! As mini Link, he can't go from flat ground to a simple bit of raised concrete at the foot of a doorway. He can't tread through thick grass without trouble. Shallow waters become like Lake Hylia itself, complete with the prospect of drowning. Things are well thought out and well designed in general. There are areas of the map and certain screens that I have been going nuts trying to reach. Soon enough - albeit after some hefty journeying -- your new items, kinstones and other things will open the way for you. And in some major strokes of genius - simply pushing boulders into holes, leaping your way to once unreachable areas, or having a good old toot on an ocarina will give you a shortcut to and from your newly accessed area from then on in. Once you realise what certain things are and what they look like (ie. wind stones/tablets, flower arrangements, pots, holes in the ground) - you really get to know your limits pretty well, and for quite a large part of the first three dungeons - you progress steadily at a nice pace, with little hindrance... until wham! You're stuck.

It's really strange. At times I've been moseying on along, right as rain, actually thinking "perhaps this game is too easy?" -- and then all of a sudden I'm retreading ground in a vain attempt to figure out what I have or haven't done. Looking at the map after a couple of dungeons, you could be forgiven for thinking the game might be quite small. But in reality there are six dungeons or something like that, and getting to each one can be a dungeon in and of itself. You'll use the big key in a dungeon and only be half way to the dungeon's boss. Luckily, pressing select is akin to pressing up-C and speaking to Navi in Ocarina of Time: Ezlo (your talking hat) will give you helpful hints or tell you where you should be trying to get next. I'd be interested to see what others make of the difficulty because... basically, when I have eventually figured out where I've been going wrong, I have been tending to regard it all in hindsight like "oh my god, that was obvious". However, some of it isn't. I think there will be quite a few people out there who have the same trouble. One thing that gets your brain going quite a bit:

There are some puzzles similar in difficulty to the best ones in Four Swords adventures on the Gamecube:
as you progress, you will infuse your sword with more and more power - enabling you to split into 2, 3, then 4 Links by standing on upto 4 glowing blocks and charging your sword. The abilities it gives you and the challenge therein is just like Four Swords! Where it's different in this game is that you can't control each Link seperately or change formation. So if the glowing blocks are in a certain unusual formation, once you transform, you are locked into that formation. If one of your clones walks into a wall or walks through a block or an enemy/projectile - it's curtains for your identikit brethren. This is frustrating when you've gotta walk them all through a veritable gauntlet just to get them all to stand on some buttons or stab switches... but it's fun!

If you do race through the game really quick, there's an almost solid guaruntee you won't have done everything there is to do in the game. There are items, paths and caves superfluous to your quest, full of goodies, money, pieces of heart and kinstones. The kinstones play a part in the biggest sidequest of the game, with many NPCs having half a keystone to which you can match to your own collection. Doing so makes something happen on the overworld map. One even enables you to get the light arrows, which you will not get if you race through the game. You may miss other keystone exclusive collectables, or miss new sword techniques for example. If you're not completist you likely won't care, and the game might seem quicker to finish for you than it will for other people, but for others there's a lot to do here. This is before I have even mentioned the Shells either. You find these all over the place. They can be spent in a vending machine somewhere in Hyrule Town, that will enable you to get figurines of characters and enemies in the game (not unlike the Wind Waker's figurine quest).

The current boss I am fighting is kicking my ass even when I have two fairies captured in bottles. I must be doing something wrong :lol


Impressions - what's new?

The first original 2d Zelda on GBA has me clamouring for more. I want a new 2d Mario even more now too. It's clear that gameplay is still and can still carry on evolving in 2d. There's a lot of new things for Zelda fans here: new tools at your disposal
There are mushrooms you can pull and stretch, to catapult yourself across chasms. There's a new lantern, a cane that can flip things over or propel you to new heights, mole mitts that allow you to tunnel through rubble, a roc's cape with the appearance of wings that lets you jump and fly (superman-style) for a limited time.
and additionally you now learn your swordplay in a dojo not unlike that in Wind Waker. Techniques range from learning how to smash pots/rocks to the dash attack, the spin attack to the "peril beam" and more. You have to find your tutors for some of these in new areas. Having said that this game comes with a lot of fresh goodness, it also comes with a hefty dose of familiarity. If you didn't like Zelda (particularly 2d Zelda) before, then maybe this familiarity will only breed contempt. But those who look back fondly will be amazed by the new stuff thats included and the subtle ques and homages to old games. Fans of a Link to the Past will remember Blind, and letting light through several levels by opening holes above you by whatever means. There's a tricky homage to the obtaining of the book of Mudura. There are friends and foe from Zelda bestieries old and new: Moblins, Octoroks, Chu Chus, Gorons, Deku Scrubs etc. As part of the excellent soundtrack there are remixes from Ocarina of Time, Link to the Past and one very cool remix of an original Legend of Zelda dungeon theme.


Impressions - Graphics and sound

The normal world/shrunken world dychotomy is an excellent way of showing off the GBA too. Normal enemies become giant bosses thanks to the GBAs sprite capabilities. A key advantage in those battles is of course that you already know some of their behaviours. The giant Chu Chu and Octorok creatures leap about, or spit rocks at you respectively for example. However, to dispose of them as such a little guy will take new methods. The scaling/stretching and rotating is put to use in elements of the world and your inventory. The game just looks beautiful. There's nice use of low opacity sprites, parallax scenery, giant objects and slick animation. Jumping into a whirlwind will make you use your cap like the Leaf item from the Wind Waker and float about.. and that's done nicely too.

The graphics and sound in this game are some of the best I've seen and heard on GBA barre none.


Initially I ummed and ahh'd over buying this one. I saw the box sitting there on store shelves for days, and thought of Christmas approaching and how there are still Gamecube and Xbox games I don't own yet. But once in a while you gotta endulge yourself and take a stab at something even if you might regret it. Which incidentally, as if it wasn't already obvious, I don't. If you're thinking of buying a Nintendo DS, this would be a worthy launch title. If you have a GBA and you're a Zelda fan you owe it to yourself to play this game. It's a great game.

Thom
 
Drinky Crow said:
How many distinct dungeons?

How many bosses?

From what I've read there are 6 bosses,
the last of which has three forms, which you fight after battling two darknuts.

As for distinct dungeons, I'd say it amounts to more than there are distinct bosses. Other's would beg to differ. It's hard to quantify because you dive in and out of the overworld, in and out of the minish world so much. If you read the Zelda Universe review you can see they consider it to be only 5. It probably will leave people wanting more, wishing it was longer... but what's there is so worth it. And in many respects, that wish for more is probably a job well done on Nintendo's checklist.
 
Yes the game is great. I got pretty much everything in the game except for the light arrows and the 4th empty bottle.

You should really spoiler tag that part about the final boss.
 
how do you rank previous zeldas you have played? There is such disagreement in which zelda games are good its hard to get a feeling for if you praising it is a good thing from my point of view or a bad one.
 
Drinky -- the difference between overworld and dungeons isn't quite as clear-cut this time around because of how much pure adventuring and exploring there is in the overworld. But technically, there are six "full" dungeons plus a couple of smaller ones.

FWIW, this is the best 2D Zelda yet, IMO.

EDIT: Also, best music in a Zelda game yet. And some of the bosses really kick ass.

BTW, please, for the good of mankind, everyone who writes for any kind of publication, please read this: FLAGSHIP DID NOT DEVELOP MINISH CAP. Flagship writes scenarios and stuff -- Capcom is the one who makes the games, mmmk?
 
john tv said:
Drinky -- the difference between overworld and dungeons isn't quite as clear-cut this time around because of how much pure adventuring and exploring there is in the overworld. But technically, there are six "full" dungeons plus a couple of smaller ones.

FWIW, this is the best 2D Zelda yet, IMO.

EDIT: Also, best music in a Zelda game yet. And some of the bosses really kick ass.

BTW, please, for the good of mankind, everyone who writes for any kind of publication, please read this: FLAGSHIP DID NOT DEVELOP MINISH CAP. Flagship writes scenarios and stuff -- Capcom is the one who makes the games, mmmk?

So the people inolved with Oracles weren't involved with Minish Cap?
 
My ranking of the Zeldae with brief explanations:

1. Oracles of Ages/Seasons (great new items, brilliant dungeon layouts, clever updates to classic dungeons in Seasons, Ages was LttP minus the suck, loads of terrain puzzles. Negatives: GBC's limited buttons, ring trading was silly and largely pointless). Score: A

2. Majora's Mask (brilliant rethinking of the entire Zelda meme, Stone Tower dungeon, incredible amount of clever new content, stellar art direction. Negatives: a little short, last boss encounter anti-climactic, DBZ-style Oni Link). Score: A-

3. Ocarina of Time (huge, loads of dungeons, great update to 3D. Negatives: Hyrule Field, frame rate and boot swapping in the Water Temple). Score: A-

4. Link's Awakening DX (tight, focused Zelda with some clever dungeons and a load of polish. Negatives: stupidly easy, lame bosses). Score: B

5. Four Swords GC (linear Zelda with a few mind-wracking puzzles in SP mode, awesome boss fights, pretty 2D, killer multiplayer. Negatives: short, linear, untraditional). Score: B

6. Wind Waker (awesome art direction/graphics, first three REAL dungeons are some of the best ever, boss fights and style are unparalleled. Negatives: sailing (most of the game), Triforce hunting, few dungeons, stealth). Score: B-

7. Link to the Past (significant series update for the time, great mood/music, loads of dungeons. Negatives: also stupidly easy, lame bosses, disfocused overworld/alt world, tedious backtracking, over-reliance on dull combat). Score: C+

8. The Legend of Zelda NES (brilliant for the time; now superseded by later installments with better controls, graphics, and layouts. Best played solely for nostalgic purposes). Score: C-

9. Adventure of Link NES (wishes it was Battle of Olympus. Seriously. Choppy, ugly side-scrolling combat and dungeons; wack collision detection. Seriously, did LJN make this game?) Score: D-

I dunno where Minish Cap falls in all of this, since I haven't played it, but I can't wait to find out.
 
Tough question. I love Seasons for updating all of the classic Zelda NES dungeons/boss fights and for introducing the Magnetic Gloves (best Zelda puzzle item EVAR), but Ages actually has better dungeon designs and overworld layout. I guess I'd tentatively say Ages.

Onox > Veran, though. And Twinrova >>> Ganon. Ganon's tired. I'm glad Vaati gets the lead role in Minish Cap.
 
see drinky would be one a those people whose rating of a zelda game I would completely ignore. (as he should ignore mine)

as a side note, am I the only one that only liked 1 of the oracle games?
I really liked seasons but thought ages was pretty mediocre.
 
slayn said:
see drinky would be one a those people whose rating of a zelda game I would completely ignore. (as he should ignore mine)

as a side note, am I the only one that only liked 1 of the oracle games?
I really liked seasons but thought ages was pretty mediocre.

I'm the exact opposite. I loved Ages, but thought Seasons brought the two down.

I'm glad Vaati gets the lead role in Minish Cap.

So am I.
Ganon in FSA was so damn weak.
 
A few points:

I agree 100% with Drinky's Scale.

Seasons and Ages had distinct differences. I think Seasons was more light-hearted and fun while Ages was darker and moody. I loved them both. I think Ages was more memorable in the long run for the story, and Seasons was more memorable for the actual gameplay.

I'm pretty skeptical of Minish Cap (I usually hate bratty birds in games - take for examples, Kazooie) but whenever I'm skeptical of a game, I come out of playing it loving it or hating it, a lot. I'm tempted to try my friend's Japanese version right now.
 
its not so much the old "nostalgia effected" ones we disagree on. Only Lttp is questionably a matter of nostalgia though I have played it recently and still love it as one of my favorite games of all time. Lttp aside though, our differences are:

I don't like oracle of seasons quite as much as you... I'd put it more around OoT's level. Just a little below. And I really didn't like Ages. I couldn't explain why. I played Ages first, thought it sucked, gave up on the oracle games. Then not till a few months my roomate picked em up and I decided to gives seasons a try. I really liked it. Went back and tried to play Ages a second time... still thought it sucked.

I also hate Major's Mask and think of it as an abomination of the zelda name. I'd rather play Adventure of Link.

Four Swords I'm not too fond of. Tried playing single player and 2 player co-op and both never got more than one long playing sessions. It was just mindless combat for the hours I put into it.
 
Four Swords, mindless combat? Wha? Most of the time you're managing formations, managing items, and solving tricky puzzles. Combat was pretty easy and hardly the focus of the SP game.

Now LttP: that's dull combat. Too much of the game's dubious difficulty relied on enemy encounters, and puzzles were minimal. Very few enemies required item usage except the helmasaurs, and most combat was purely about getting a diagonal on a foe and slashing madly. Outside of the Helmasaur King, was there a single memorable boss encounter? The rest were all generic snakes, eyeball things, or wizards.
 
I wanna say I got to around the end of the 4th world or something before giving up. Perhaps I'll get back to it for christmas break. Playing single (and multi) player involved:

stupid stupid backtracking for items because your group can't hold more than one item. (This reeeeeally pissed me off. and I LIKE backtracking in most games that abuse it)

and, at least for those 4 worlds, each level involved hacking my way through enemies till I get to a boss. Ocasionally having to create a formation to push a big block.
 
Drinky Crow said:
Four Swords, mindless combat? Wha? Most of the time you're managing formations, managing items, and solving tricky puzzles. Combat was pretty easy and hardly the focus of the SP game.

Now LttP: that's dull combat. Too much of the game's dubious difficulty relied on enemy encounters, and puzzles were minimal. Very few enemies required item usage except the helmasaurs, and most combat was purely about getting a diagonal on a foe and slashing madly. Outside of the Helmasaur King, was there a single memorable boss encounter? The rest were all generic snakes, eyeball things, or wizards.

I'm not a boss person. Bosses to me are merely an inconveniance unless that boss requires a clever or extremely different approach to beat. Like that spider boss I recently played in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. That was a good boss. I consider 95% of all boss encounters in all games worthless though.

combat in all zelda games has never been interesting to me. So they all just sorta suck equally.
 
Drinky Crow said:
Tough question. I love Seasons for updating all of the classic Zelda NES dungeons/boss fights and for introducing the Magnetic Gloves (best Zelda puzzle item EVAR)

Magnetic Gloves > Zero-Point Energy Manipulator
 
combat in all zelda games has never been interesting to me. So they all just sorta suck equally.

So what's left to love in LttP once you rule out combat and nostalgia? The dungeons have almost no real puzzles of any signficance outside of that memorably tricky bit in the Ice Palace and the Cane of Somaria puzzles in Turtle Rock dungeon; they still rely on rooms full of enemies and trap dodging. The overworld is clumsy with very few terrain puzzles, and the world switching gimmick is sorely underused. The story is nonexistent. You're left with graphics and music, essentially, both of which still hold up well.

Everything in LttP is essentially done demonstrably better in the Oracle titles.
 
I should have stated my comment about 4 swords differently. I didn't mean to say that combat in 4 swords is somehow worse than that of other zelda games, but I'm thinking that was how you read it. What I meant was I don't like zelda combat and 4 swords simply has more of it than other zelda games for longer stretches of time.
 
Drinky Crow said:
So what's left to love in LttP once you rule out combat and nostalgia? The dungeons have almost no real puzzles of any signficance outside of that memorably tricky bit in the Ice Palace and the Cane of Somalia puzzles in Turtle Rock dungeon; they still rely on rooms full of enemies and trap dodging. The overworld is clumsy with very few terrain puzzles, and the world switching gimmick is sorely underused. The story is nonexistent. You're left with graphics and music, essentially, both of which still hold up well.

1 part nostalgia, 1 part graphics, 1 part dungeons, 1 part length.

nostalgia comes in in that everything was new when playing it. As in, the jump from the nes zelda to this was such a massive leap that has never been re-iterated to create the same feeling of newness.

graphics, self explanatory from a technical standpoint but also I just loved the whole atmosphere of LttP. I just liked walking around in LttP more than I do in any other zelda game.

dungeons. I actually liked the Lttp dungeons. They were more about exploration than they were about puzzles early on. And then once you get tired of that it gives you the trickier dungoens like the ice one or turtle rock. I actually didn't find the oracle dungeons to be all that great. That room that spins you 90 degrees was overused and I didn't have much trouble traversing them. I was also quite sick of the mine carts by the end. The only true puzzles I enjoyed in oracle was those involving the magnetic glove. That glove was all levels of awesomeness. There wasn't anything out right phenominal about the LttP dungeons but I still found them to be some of the more enjoyable. I think OoT had some better, and some worse. I think the oracle dungeons were about on par. The stone tower place of MM was better but thats its only good one.

Length, not only did LttP have your good 9 duengone set up but you have to adventure around get 3 pendants all with their own dungoen merely to gain the right to go to the 'real' dungeons.
 
one thing I will admit against Lttp though (and its somethign that I could never really argue against) is its extremely difficult to guage dungeon difficulty unless you happen to be someone that plays both games at the same time.

Puzzles in a zelda game don't change, so once you beat a zelda game its puzzles no longer hold challenge and even if you were to replay it today it would be impossible to judge difficulty because the solutions would be lurking in the back of your mind no matter how longs its been since you played it.

The reason why I say this is probably a mark against LttP is that I wasa stupid little kid when I first played it. Hence a lot of dungeons and puzzles were probably much harder than they would have been had I first played it at this age. Whereas with oracle of seasons... I only plyed it a few months ago so if puzzles were slightly more challenging than those of LttP I would have found them easier than I remember LttP dungeons being (and there is no way for me in life to be able to 're-qualify' dungoen difficulty because there are easily some subtle and tricky aspects that are now in plain view)

have you ever watched someone play a zelda game? Its very frustrating. You see them stuck on a puzzle and you (well at least I) want to blurt out, "how could you not see x?!?!"
 
Minish Cap is brilliant, but I find myself wanting more action. The game is heavily focused on puzzles. I haven't played Oracles, but I assume it's similar to those. It's quite different from LttP, f.ex. The puzzles are great and fun to figure out, but some more epic battles would be nice.
 
How long is the Four Swords single-player game anyway? Is it worth buying just for that?

It's kind of cool that different people like completely different aspects of Zelda games the most - dungeons, combat, bosses, story etc. I am myself partial to the parts between dungeons. It's a damn tight series alright.
 
I'm really looking forward to this. And it's great that there's a fair amount of hype for it, despite it coming on the back-end of GBA's life. I don't think OoA/OoS got enough attention, but at the same time I really don't understand the significant praise from some. Well... I do, but..
 
snaildog said:
How long is the Four Swords single-player game anyway? Is it worth buying just for that?

It's kind of cool that different people like completely different aspects of Zelda games the most - dungeons, combat, bosses, story etc. I am myself partial to the parts between dungeons. It's a damn tight series alright.
get 4S immediately. truly one of the best games this year. the single player is superb, very well done. it makes you want 2D games more than anything.

about minish cap, awesome game, capcom did an amazing job. some of the best tracks in the zelda series. i want the minish woods and village songs to be in the upcoming gc zelda. the boss fights were nothing short of amazing. the new items are super as well. this was one of the freshest zelda game. lots of new stuff here. the game just pulls you in and really creates a nice world. *back to fire emblem, this sonia bitch is going down!
 
My Zelda rankings:

1) Ocarina of Time
2 tie) Wind Waker/Majoras Mask
4 tie) Oracles games (played them one after the other, seemed like a whole game to me)
6) Link to the Past
7) Original LoZ
8) Zelda 2

Never played: 4 Swords, Links Awakening
 
AniHawk said:
DAMNIT.

Oh well. Hopefully it takes the best of Seasons and the best of Ages to create one supergame.

I really loved Seasons and Ages, but minish cap isn't better. The graphics surely are nice, but I really do miss the Subrosians.
I do like the way the game goes. The most puzzles are located in the main map. the dungeons aren't difficult, but they are a very nice variation. So if you hate the normal zelda dungeons you are gonna love this game! More action less stupid puzzles. the included puzzles are very nice.

I think the game looks like "a link to the past +++++"

I rate zelda in the following order:
1. Zelda: oracle of seasons
2. Zelda: minish cap
3. Zelda: oracle of ages
4. zelda: wind waker
5. zelda: oot
6. zelda: a link to the past
7. zelda: Link's Awakening
8. zelda: majora's mask
9. zelda: II
10. zelda
11. zelda: four swords
 
My Zelda rankings:

1) Ocarina of Time: A+
The best game I had played up until that point in time. I'd give it a B+ if I played it now, but no game has been able to capture the feeling I got when playing this since then, so the score stays.

2) Link's Awakening: A
Also mainly nostalgia. Haven't played it in a while, so I can't remember how it truly compares to the rest of the series, but this is what got me into the series in the first place, and I loved every bit of it.

3) Majora's Mask: A
A bit on the short side, but very fun and twisted for a Zelda game. A great follow up to Ocarina of Time.

4) The Wind Waker: B
The sailing didn't really bother me the first time around, but I really noticed the flaws when I played it the second time (it takes a game a lot to get me to play it more than once the entire way through too). Some really good and fun dungeons, beautiful graphics, and killer ending save it though.

5) Oracle of Ages: B
I can't remember why, but I did have a lot of fun with this game. Plus, time travel is always a plus with me.

6) Four Swords Adventures: B-
Some really clever puzzles, and great fun on multiplayer. Poor single player experience and a serious step back for the storytelling.

7) A Link to the Past: C+
I played it first in 2000, so I didn't get the whole "classic" sense of the game. Not bad though. Just a bit above average.

8) Legend of Zelda: C
Don't know what needs to be said. Just found it average.

9) Oracle of Seasons: D+
Like Ages, I don't remember what happened in the game too much, but I remember that Seasons was a game I just did not mix well with.

10) Adventures of Link: D-
Bleh.
 
Man, I played and finished both Oracles games just earlier this past summer and can barely at all follow this introspective argument being waged. I'm pretty amazed that some of you have such lasting fondness for one over the other, because I have a hell of a time drawing specifics to a particular namebrand when it comes to these two games. I'd give the most puzzled look to the person that would ask me to pick favorites.

Still, I was always sorta annoyed by the overt use of minecart switch-puzzles in each, got pretty tiring seeing them in most every dungeon, I mean it's pretty much the only nitpick that kind of stuck with me. That and the lack of GBC buttons, pulling down that subscreen for various item combos got pretty obscene in the lategame.

I have to contest Doug's critique of Zelda 2 tho, played most of it again over Thanksgiving break, and the game chugs along at a perfectly smooth clip. Despite the rudimentary dungeon layouts, dumb bosses, and occasional inane puzzle clue; the game is still pretty phuckin phun for such an ancient sidescroller.
 
Whoever said this game looks like ALttP is DEAD WRONG. The game brings a quasi-WW art style, take its subtleties and expounds on them in a 2D world. The result: a new, fresh, fun, and beautiful looking 2D game unlike many that you've seen before.

The score is perhaps the best than in any of the prior Zelda games... which can be deciving... they take a lot of the OLD Zelda themes and remix them in certain parts of the game. Truly enjoyable and you will get a feel of nostalgia as you march around Hyrule listening to some of your old favorites.

I was pleasantly surprised by how deep the battles were in this game. For one, the boss battles are quasi-puzzle/epics rolled into one (including the final boss). Although it didn't happen to me... actually DYING in a Zelda game is a breath of fresh air.. especially when it is happening with a boss. At least a couple of times I found myself looking through my inventory in order to find out just exactly how to beat the boss by trying what works. I liked that. As for sword play... the way that you learn the techniques during the game is great.... and not even necessary. I will say this... the final dungeon/boss becomes A LOT EASIER when you have all of the sword techniques to be found in the game. Do yourself a favor... find those techniques and... actually... get everything this game has to offer while you can.

Someone mentioned the Magnetic gloves... wish I could share your love for them but I never played Oracles/Seasons. However, there is one EARLY item drop that could rival your gloves. And.. there is a later drop that was nicely utilized for puzzle portions of the game in the overworld. And then there are two that really made me think: wow 2D has come a long way
In order: Pot, Dig Gloves, Jump Cape and Climb Gloves

After being removed from this game now for about a month I can safely say that, yes, all ALttP has over this game is the nostaligic feel. This game, quite simply, is better, and ANYONE that owns a DS/GBA/SP needs to buy this game. That simple.

I'm interested in someone lending some small impressions on how the game feels on the DS. You can't use those extra buttons huh? That would have been MIGHTY sweet for gameplay (US ADDITION!??!?!!! Doubtful)
 
Here's how I rate them:

1) A Link to the Past

the only reason this is above Minish Cap for me is nostalgia, length and the design of the overworld in both the light world/dark world. It's very close. It's lost some of it's immersiveness since Zelda has now gone 3d, but it has charm and scope that the 3d games have yet to capture IMO. This game is the archetype Zelda for me. It has the right style, the right balance of difficulty, the right length, the right amount of fun.

2) The Minish Cap

I am making this my tentative number 2. In time, it could easily become my number 1!! It's by far and away the most impressive 2d Zelda all things considered... it could be longer though. That really is the only complaint I can forsee

3) Ocarina of Time

I don't think this has aged well visually, and I prefer both older and newer styles.. but that's not really of much importance. Again, the reason this is above other games including Wind Waker is because it strikes a good balance. It has a nice amount of dungeons, good difficulty, and brought the franchise into 3d perfectly at the time.

4) The Wind Waker

This game recaptured what I really liked about the 2d games to an extent, but it alienated people with it's relatively linear path, constantly using the baton, and sailing on the high seas for a large part of the game. Objectively, you can say it improves almost everything else: Graphics (even if you only agree that it has a better frame rate, animation and draw distance), sound (interactive soundtrack), combat (explicit attacks - vertical/horizontal, slashing, parry/reactionary)... if enemies had been upgraded in intelligence to adequetly defend against Link's new abilities, and there were two more dungeons as reportedly planned, this would have had the challenge to make people really love it. As is, it's just a markedly improved Zelda showing promising direction. Not perfect, it has to settle for just great.

5) Majora's Mask

So much about this game is done right. The masks/transformations are enjoyable unlike the the repetative possessions you can do in the Wind Waker.. the three day dilemma gives you an opportunity to learn and experiment with the routines of the NPCs you encounter, and it's an original, much more bleak take on the franchise than usual. It has one of the best dungeons ever in a Zelda game, and there's lots of enjoyment to be had... but for whatever reason, I didn't quite enjoy it as much as the above games.

6) Four Swords Adventures

This game is solid, enjoyable fun. The reliance on Gameboy hardware and link cables makes it a total pain in the ass to play with people regularly though. This could blossom into a series as good as or better than the main Zelda franchise on a system like Nintendo DS, and I really hope that's the case. It proved that you can have beautiful 2d, marry it with beautiful 3d effects, and continue to evolve gameplay on the 2d plain. Lots of taxing puzzles, a fun conflict of co-operation and competition in multiplayer, and some great mini games - Zelda fans could pick up and play this anytime.

7) Link's Awakening

Prior to Minish Cap, this was my favourite portable Zelda. The story of Koholint Island is a bittersweet one, and the gameplay captures a lot of what made Lttp great and builds on it.

8) The Legend of Zelda

Where it all began.

9) Adventure of Link

Damn you invisible town!



I haven't played Oracle of Ages or Seasons yet. I may pick them up soon, but I find Gameboy sounds quite horrific now. Remakes/ports please?
 
Brandon F said:
Still, I was always sorta annoyed by the overt use of minecart switch-puzzles in each, got pretty tiring seeing them in most every dungeon, I mean it's pretty much the only nitpick that kind of stuck with me. That and the lack of GBC buttons, pulling down that subscreen for various item combos got pretty obscene in the lategame.

Minish Cap has at least one minecart switch puzzle (I liked it), and I can confirm that the item switching is annoying in Minish Cap too.
 
Ranking Zelda? How did I miss this thread?

01 Majora's Mask
02 Link's Awakening
03 Oracle of Ages
04 Oracle of Seasons
05 Ocarina of Time
06 The Legend of Zelda
07 Four Swords Adventures
08 A Link to the Past
09 The Wind Waker
10 The Adventure of Link

...can't wait to see how The Minish Cap stacks up.
 
US prelaunch site is open.

http://www.zelda.com/minishcap/prelaunch/index.html

zmc_wp1_800.jpg
 
MrPing1000 said:
I really need to finish it off, got
the castle to go all evil

Same here. The boss in the clouds was awesome.
using the 'three' sword in battle was great, and using the four sword atop Dark Hyrule Castle is gonna rock

I've gone back to Metroid Prime 2 and other games for a while. I'm waiting to get my newly modded Xbox back.
 
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