Support NeoGAF

[jason10mm]

It was 100 years of 99% white characters or ethnic characters being played by white actors. It’s not even been 10 years of this inclusion casting. Some for the better and some of it forced. You’ll survive

What are you babbling about? The US was like 90+% white till fairly recently. Same for England (actually, that may still be the case). India, Japan, Hong Kong, all have had thriving movie cultures with nary a white person in sight.

Get out of your bubble. Movies reflect the cultures that make them. Hollywood isn't, and has never been, 99% white. The question is, are they making movies NOW that actually reflect society? I'd argue that no, they are not. They are amplifying fringe groups at the expense of the actual majority population and often this disconnect is reflected at the box office.

 

[taizuke]

There’s a difference though no? Hollywood would make you think all of America was white until recently. They are correcting. The problem is they are over correcting. We’ve never been short on white characters.

Like for a example, take the new Spider-Man’s for example. They’ve added a lot of diversity in the cast to make Queens a lot more realistic. People find an issue with that when really the originals were the ones way off. What high school in queens is 99% white people?

The over correcting is just a phase and the free market will balance it out eventually

Having a more represented population in a school or a city is fine because those are mainly background characters. I think crowds of people should be fairly represented depending on the setting and if any media fails to do so then it should be criticised.

What i'm talking about is race swapping important or legacy white characters because of representation but not being okay when the race swapping is done to a black, latino, or asian character, even when their race is not integral to who they are. It's one-sided. Listen, i'm not about to advocate for the race swapping of Black Panther. Hell no. T'Challa is a character rooted in Africa. That's who he is. That's why i gave the examples of Sam and Henry. Two black brothers just trying to survive who you meet over course of The Last of Us. Them being black has nothing to do with who they are, So, hypothetically speaking they could be race swapped if an adaptation called for it given the criteria of people who are okay with race swapping as long as race is not important.

I'm all for representation, but i rather see new minority characters represented instead of taking established characters, changing their skin color and calling it a day. It's lazy. All it says to me is these supposed "representation" characters are not important to have their own identity and instead must borrow it.

I do agree all this hoopla is an over correction but equity (equality of outcome) should not be the answer.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I can't say that I agree with this. Personally, I think it would make more sense to have a black Bruce Wayne with his traditional personality, rather than the white reclusive emo bitch we got in the latest movie.

There's no reason Bruce Wayne needs to be white, other than to keep an established character the same. And that's not a reason why keeping the character the same needs to happen, but it's probably a reason why keeping the character the same should happen. Bruce Wayne could be black, and Luke Cage could be white, but what is the point? Why change an established character, when you can just make a new character?

And just to expand on this a bit, why did they bother making Commissioner Gorden or Catwoman black? They couldn't have written a new policeman character or a new whatever the heck "catwoman" was in the latest batman? Was she even a thief in the new movie? Wouldn't it have been better to make her a new character? She was barely catwoman, or anything like that character, so what was the point?

 

[DeafTourette]

I can't say that I agree with this. Personally, I think it would make more sense to have a black Bruce Wayne with his traditional personality, rather than the white reclusive emo bitch we got in the latest movie.

There's no reason Bruce Wayne needs to be white, other than to keep an established character the same. And that's not a reason why keeping the character the same needs to happen, but it's probably a reason why keeping the character the same should happen. Bruce Wayne could be black, and Luke Cage could be white, but what is the point? Why change an established character, when you can just make a new character?

Bruce comes from old money. I'm not talking about Batman, just Bruce Wayne. A wealthy white man moves through society differently and MORE EASILY than a wealthy black or other POC. Look at how people even treat wealthy black and white celebs differently when they commit crimes, whether they saw them do it or not. Michael Vick served his time and changed his ways and people were STILL calling for him to be homeless and penniless. A lot of people are STILL mad at Will Smith for slapping Chris Rock and think he should never get to act again! Some on this board as well!

Robert Downey Jr got chance after chance and he's one of the most celebrated celebrities of the modern age (mostly because of Iron Man and Sherlock Holmes). Even Mel Gibson is somewhat back in Hollywood's good graces.

It just makes more sense for Bruce to be white than a POC.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

There’s a difference though no? Hollywood would make you think all of America was white until recently. They are correcting. The problem is they are over correcting. We’ve never been short on white characters.

Like for a example, take the new Spider-Man’s for example. They’ve added a lot of diversity in the cast to make Queens a lot more realistic. People find an issue with that when really the originals were the ones way off. What high school in queens is 99% white people?

The over correcting is just a phase and the free market will balance it out eventually

Problem is overcorrecting and illogical splits.

Tons of media has that diversity split of a white, black, latino and asian. And most of the time the lead character(s) will ne the white or black person. It's so obvious. Splits like that arent realistic in any way in western countries because no country is split 25% like that even in metro cities. And very few people in real life will have hang out friends or fam that resemble that diversity split either. Most people will skew to certain races because of their fam and where they live (the neighbourhood demographic). I'd bet there isn't one person on ths message board who has friends, fam, workplaces and schools which are about 25% each background.

In Canada, there's tons of black people on TV ads, yet Canada's black population is about 4.5%. There's more Indian people, and way more East Asian people (5-10% each). Yet there's hardly any Indian/mid East/East Asian people in media or TV ads here.

What also doesnt make sense is that a lot of media has diversified splits, but most places are White (especially the smaller the town and rural you go). So why would news anchors or local tv ads in Alberta or Saskatchewan or the maritimes need to be super diversified when most of the people living in those provinces are white?

 

[DeafTourette]

What are you babbling about? The US was like 90+% white till fairly recently. Same for England (actually, that may still be the case). India, Japan, Hong Kong, all have had thriving movie cultures with nary a white person in sight.

Get out of your bubble. Movies reflect the cultures that make them. Hollywood isn't, and has never been, 99% white. The question is, are they making movies NOW that actually reflect society? I'd argue that no, they are not. They are amplifying fringe groups at the expense of the actual majority population and often this disconnect is reflected at the box office.

Hollywood has never been 99% white? I'm sorry but yes it has! The 1% were the movies like Porgie and Bess.

ANd I'm sorry but the US is like 66% white... It's much more diverse than what you're insinuating.

Also, until relatively recently, any non-white starring movie was based in stereotypes... Or history.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Michael Vick served his time and changed his ways and people were STILL calling for him to be homeless and penniless.

A lot of people are STILL mad at Will Smith for slapping Chris Rock and think he should never get to act again!

I just want him to get divorced, and stop being mentally abused.

Robert Downey Jr got chance after chance and he's one of the most celebrated celebrities of the modern age

But unlike your other two examples, he hurt himself not others.

Even Mel Gibson is somewhat back in Hollywood's good graces.

You got me with that one, although Nick Cannon seems to be doing fine these days. At least Mel's career suffered for a while, and still does to an extent.

Bruce comes from old money. I'm not talking about Batman, just Bruce Wayne.

But there's no reason why Bruce has to come from old money, or be white, or have a butler, or have a secret hideout in a cave, or live in a mansion, or have dark hair, or drive a bat-themed car, etc. But these things are all already part of his established character, so why change them?

 

[CGNoire]

I don't remember seeing anyone other than POC complaining about Gods of Egypt or Aladdin and the very white passing Princess Jasmine...

"Seeing"?

Last time I checked the race of forum members isnt listed.

Dont you think assuming that those complaining about the 3 films must be POC and definitly arent white people is just projection?

Like how would you know that?

I hate the damm internet. Its such dogshit for communication and makes it far too easy to fill its communication shortfalls with our own fears.

 

[jason10mm]

Hollywood has never been 99% white? I'm sorry but yes it has! The 1% were the movies like Porgie and Bess.

ANd I'm sorry but the US is like 66% white... It's much more diverse than what you're insinuating.

Also, until relatively recently, any non-white starring movie was based in stereotypes... Or history.

It's never been 99% white. And you gotta play with how you call hispanics to drop the "white" percentage to 66% Do Cubans, Puerto Ricans, and lots of central/South Americans count as white or not? Cause they have always been in Hollywood (perhaps with an anglicized name, just like the irish, polish, and Italians, oh yeah were they always considered white?).

Even if you just consider black involvement in Hollywood, just use the Oscar's as a guage, way more than 1% went to black people.

By any measure, other than agenda driven delusion, Hollywood has NEVER been 99% white.

 

[jason10mm]

But there's no reason why Bruce has to come from old money, or be white, or have a butler, or have a secret hideout in a cave, or live in a mansion, or have dark hair, or drive a bat-themed car, etc. But these things are all already part of his established character, so why change them?

I'd argue that a big part of what makes Batman work is that Bruce is a part of the elites that enables the very system of corruption and crime that he then fights. His myopic view if "justice" focused on punching people instead of addressing systemic flaws that enables crime is both a statement about his character as well as a judgement against populations as a whole that always seem to allow this stuff to exist (well, outside of Singapore anyway).

In the US he really needs to be white, as that is what allows the Bruce Wayne/Batman dichotomy to exist. If the only young, fit, Uber wealthy guty in town running around at night beating up people was also Asian or black, I dunno, seems like it would be hard to miss that secret identity.

This is in opposition to someone like Daredevil or Spiderman, their race is secondary to their life circumstances. Wonder Woman, for example, draws from Greek Amazon myth so she is kinda rwce locked as well, despite being a constructed Golem or whatthefuck.

 

[DeafTourette]

I just watched Peter Pan + Wendy on Disney+ ... Other than some dodgy CGI with Tinkerbell, it was a really well done movie and the story was solid! Milla Jovovich's daughter did a great job as Wendy.

 

[DeafTourette]

I'd argue that a big part of what makes Batman work is that Bruce is a part of the elites that enables the very system of corruption and crime that he then fights. His myopic view if "justice" focused on punching people instead of addressing systemic flaws that enables crime is both a statement about his character as well as a judgement against populations as a whole that always seem to allow this stuff to exist (well, outside of Singapore anyway).

In the US he really needs to be white, as that is what allows the Bruce Wayne/Batman dichotomy to exist. If the only young, fit, Uber wealthy guty in town running around at night beating up people was also Asian or black, I dunno, seems like it would be hard to miss that secret identity.

This is in opposition to someone like Daredevil or Spiderman, their race is secondary to their life circumstances. Wonder Woman, for example, draws from Greek Amazon myth so she is kinda rwce locked as well, despite being a constructed Golem or whatthefuck.

I agree with your take on Bruce as it goes well with my own...

But ancient Greece was kinda diverse skin-color-wise. There were Africans and moors and indians living in Greece or were part of Greek society outside its borders. Like Egypt. Besides, Diana Prince has a black sister named Nubia who is just as strong as Diana.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

In Mexico

In a TV show.





Sinegrita???






I dont say nothing

 

[Batiman]

Problem is overcorrecting and illogical splits.

Tons of media has that diversity split of a white, black, latino and asian. And most of the time the lead character(s) will ne the white or black person. It's so obvious. Splits like that arent realistic in any way in western countries because no country is split 25% like that even in metro cities. And very few people in real life will have hang out friends or fam that resemble that diversity split either. Most people will skew to certain races because of their fam and where they live (the neighbourhood demographic). I'd bet there isn't one person on ths message board who has friends, fam, workplaces and schools which are about 25% each background.

In Canada, there's tons of black people on TV ads, yet Canada's black population is about 4.5%. There's more Indian people, and way more East Asian people (5-10% each). Yet there's hardly any Indian/mid East/East Asian people in media or TV ads here.

What also doesnt make sense is that a lot of media has diversified splits, but most places are White (especially the smaller the town and rural you go). So why would news anchors or local tv ads in Alberta or Saskatchewan or the maritimes need to be super diversified when most of the people living in those provinces are white?

Well I’m pretty sure you’re from Ontario? I’m from Toronto we’re it’s diversity is almost the same as New York. My circles are pretty much 25%. My workplace especially. I’m Portuguese/ German with an Hispanic son. I have multiple black family members. My brothers children are half Indian. Pretty normal for most big western cities.

 

[Batiman]

What are you babbling about? The US was like 90+% white till fairly recently. Same for England (actually, that may still be the case). India, Japan, Hong Kong, all have had thriving movie cultures with nary a white person in sight.

Get out of your bubble. Movies reflect the cultures that make them. Hollywood isn't, and has never been, 99% white. The question is, are they making movies NOW that actually reflect society? I'd argue that no, they are not. They are amplifying fringe groups at the expense of the actual majority population and often this disconnect is reflected at the box office.

And only fairly recently is where movies started to be diverse. Do you want modern movies to not represent modern society?

 

[DeafTourette]

In Mexico

In a TV show.





Sinegrita???






I dont say nothing

I tried looking up what that means... Enlighten us?

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I tried looking up what that means... Enlighten us?

Is a game of word...

If I say it here... I could be banned

I need protection.

 

[DeafTourette]

Is a game of word...

If I say it here... I could be banned

Inbox me

 

[Goalus]

And only fairly recently is where movies started to be diverse. Do you want modern movies to not represent modern society?

If it makes sense to represent modern society, a movie should represent modern society. If doesn't make sense, it should not.

 

[Toons]

The complaints about race swapping always end up being arbitrary.

I saw a ton of people complaining about tinker bell yet this guardians of the galaxy movie race swaps its main villain from the comics; and also gender swapped one of the new characters (cosmo) who is a male in the comics and almost no one cared.

It seems like groups of people just selectively pick which tmmovied to make big deals out of whilst ignoring the presence of the thing in other movies.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Well I’m pretty sure you’re from Ontario? I’m from Toronto we’re it’s diversity is almost the same as New York. My circles are pretty much 25%. My workplace especially. I’m Portuguese/ German with an Hispanic son. I have multiple black family members. My brothers children are half Indian. Pretty normal for most big western cities.

I'm from Toronto area too.

Having a very split 25% kind of thing is basically impossible even in our metro area of around 6M people because the number of Black and Latino people are hardly any compared to the US. Black is ~10% and Latino ~3%.

Demographics of Toronto - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org