-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Mass Effect Community Thread
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
- Status
Great question, and it has a huge answer that I can't do justice until we show the game off and reveal some of the core pillars. So until then, here's what I'll say. When we started on the game more than two years ago, we went back over the previous games of the Trilogy and talked about what we'd loved from each of them. Maybe surprisingly (maybe not), each game had elements that we were proud of or thought represented the best in the series. It was those "best in the series" elements from all of the games - ME1, ME2, and ME3 - that we're attempting to extend even further by the time we release this new Mass Effect game. So in other words, the moment-to-moment experience isn't just the evolution of where we got to with ME3 gameplay.
I wish I could go into more specifics, and we will eventually. Until then, I hope that helps.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Hype...rising!
Okay, I'd say the best parts from each game are something like:
-ME1: Sense of scale. Exploration. Plot.
-ME2: Character writing. Personal connection.
-ME3: Shooting. RPG mechanics. Customization.
The Artisan
Member
this.
the Me3 wasn't just the ending to Me3... it was the ending to Me1, 2, and 3. a whole trilogy.
Of course the ending matters. It's pretty disingenuous to pretend that we shouldn't care about how a story based game building up a very specific conflict for 3 games ends, and frankly, a bit insulting too.
Judging the games individually there's plenty to argue for or against, plot wise, character wise, mechanically, etc, and plenty of merits to be assigned, but the ending was a universe killing event, which was by far the selling point and most important aspect of the game for me.
Judging the games individually there's plenty to argue for or against, plot wise, character wise, mechanically, etc, and plenty of merits to be assigned, but the ending was a universe killing event, which was by far the selling point and most important aspect of the game for me.
brianmcdoogle
Member
I've been trying to get back into Mass Effect recently in lead up to a hopeful E3 reveal, and I'm finding it really hard to because of how the series ended (partly with the third game, especially with the ending). I thought about starting up the games again, but I don't want to play 1 and 2 without 3, which means having to play 3. I tried reading the first book, but when they're talking about the Reapers, all I can think of is the last third or so of ME3 and how wasted they became as an enemy. The only thing that still gives me unadulterated joy is the soundtracks. The stink of ME3 just taints almost everything for me.
I'm sure it will eventually pass, or at least I hope it will.
SliChillax
Member
Thank you for injecting us all with this sci fi hype drug. Keep up the great work, I have great faith in your team.
prag16
Banned
Kind of embarrassing to have Aaryn drop into the middle of yet another argument about the ending (with myself at fault as much as anyone, especially my most recent Mac-bashing post... which I'll in no way back down from especially if any of the alleged "Patrick Weekes" comments about the fiasco are in fact genuine and accurate).
But this, while revealing little, is reassuring to hear. Hype rising to uncontrollable levels. Full E3 reveal?????
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
My hype core is reaching critical levels, may need to send Jenkins to the Zakera ward to buy some cooling converters (aka, this sounds great AF).
This post hits the nail on the head for me also, these are the things I enjoyed most out of each ME entry, with all being my favourite in a way.
Every trilogy run I look forward to the next game for these exact reasons with maybe the addition of Vanguard charge in ME2 and jumping in ME3 (love me some dodging haha..).
Note: Pretty embarr for Mr Flynn to post up in the middle of another endings foodfight
The Shogun
Banned
I know I haven't been very active at all in this thread, but it may surprise you all that Mass Effect is in my top 5 favorite franchises of all time. I know I suck for not being a bigger part of this hype train.
That being said, man am I ready to return to that Universe. I literally miss it.
The number one thing I ask for Bioware in the chance that you read this, is a return to the mystery of Mass Effect 1. The moment that I discover that Sovereign was a Reaper my head exploded. I want that feeling again.
That being said, man am I ready to return to that Universe. I literally miss it.
The number one thing I ask for Bioware in the chance that you read this, is a return to the mystery of Mass Effect 1. The moment that I discover that Sovereign was a Reaper my head exploded. I want that feeling again.
DOWN
Banned
I'd generally agree with this, but with the major change from ME 1 to the sequels being atmosphere and the style paired with it. ME1 was moody, slick, and bold. ME2 was so grimy and loud, rarely with the emotional and aspirational tones of sci-fi that I think largely were foundations of the universe established in ME1, instead turning the series toward personality clicks and plot crises.
With a return to exploration and the vastness of space, I think we may get some sense of wonderstruck atmosphere back, and I couldn't be more excited. The size of the character profiles and action became bigger than the places themselves in ME2 and 3. I want to feel small out there again.
ME3 has RPG mechanics? Of what kind?
The Artisan
Member
all the best things from each game in the series...sounds like we're going to have one hell of a new ME game!
The Shogun
Banned
There is so much truth in this post.
Mass Effect 1's sense of atmosphere is hands down the best. When I played that game I felt like I was a player in a vast mysterious universe. I didn't know what was going to happen next and I also felt like while I was important, there were other forces out there much larger than myself.
In Mass Effect 2 and 3 it felt like the ENTIRE universe all revolved around Shepard. Like nothing was important other than what was going on right next to me. It made Shepard himself bigger than the Universe around him, and killed the sense of mystery to me.
I want in the next Mass Effect to feel important, but to also feel like I'm surrounded by a vast unknown around me.
The Artisan
Member
hm. I only got to play Me1 once since it came super late to Ps3, and I've played through Me2 like 10 times. I wonder if I had more exposure to Me1, if I would've loved it more than I love Me2.
Ah, all the more reason that we gotta have that ME trilogy remastered.
Ah, all the more reason that we gotta have that ME trilogy remastered.
The Shogun
Banned
I actually do still think that ME2 is the overall better game. Combat is much better, character dialogue and interactions are much better. The game just overall feels smoother. As a whole I think its the better experience.
The one thing that really hurt it though is I think they focused everything far too much around Shepard and the team in the game. When I first played through Mass Effect 1 I felt like a very small fish in a huge pond. The universe was mysterious and unknown. Danger or something totally new and alien could be around any corner. Even the plot itself was much larger than that of ME2 in terms of stuff happening without Shepard directly being present.
The biggest thing I hope they take from Mass Effect 1 is a sense of mystery and exploring the unknown. Really embrace that feeling.
It's wird, but it age exactly the opposite opinion to most about ME1. It didnt feel like a large, unknown Galaxy at *all* because within the arc of that game the world presented you with all these giant mysteries - and then proceeded to have you tackle each one. Presumably because they didn't know if they would get to make a sequel or not, ME1 is a much more self contained game than ME2.
Consider the state of the universe in ME1. The giant big stories, lost to time, are:
- the Rachni wars
- what happened to the Protheans?
- the Krogan genophage
- the Geth
And you encounter and resolve all of these in the course of one game, whereas actually any one could have been the focus of a sole game. ME1 didn't need all the above in it - and had they known they were guaranteed to get three games I'm sure it wouldn't have all three. As it is, I honestly felt a bit fatigued when I came across the Rachni on the third world - they didn't need to be there, they didn't add anything to the plot, they were just there because Bioware felt they had to use them because they had talked about them a lot.
Consider the state of the universe in ME1. The giant big stories, lost to time, are:
- the Rachni wars
- what happened to the Protheans?
- the Krogan genophage
- the Geth
And you encounter and resolve all of these in the course of one game, whereas actually any one could have been the focus of a sole game. ME1 didn't need all the above in it - and had they known they were guaranteed to get three games I'm sure it wouldn't have all three. As it is, I honestly felt a bit fatigued when I came across the Rachni on the third world - they didn't need to be there, they didn't add anything to the plot, they were just there because Bioware felt they had to use them because they had talked about them a lot.
dr_rus
Member
If you mean that these were present somewhat then sure. But as highlights of ME3 these are completely wrong. I'd say: Soundtrack. That's all for the 3rd part.
Poodlestrike
Banned
You might recall, every so often the "character" menu would glow for some reason? Well, when that happens, you're supposed to open it up and go to the character page and allocate skill points, in a system that is a significant step up from both 1 and 2. The decoupling of Paragon/Renegade from Persuade is another good one.
Eh, I dunno. The combat was finally fun and fluid, the level up system allowed you a decent degree of freedom, they finally decoupled Paragon/Renegade from persuade to allow for more freeform Paragade stuff to be more viable, and the armor and weapon customization was top notch.
Thanks for the reply. This is what I was kind of hoping. That "ME4" would be "take the best of each past games and combine that together". Can't wait to see the results! Hopefully at E3...but I guess you can't confirm or deny that yet.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Did you have it set to auto level?
shinobi602
Member
ME3 easily had the best combat in the series to me. Guns felt real good, like, proper third person shooter good. Easy to take cover, dodge, roll, powers felt extremely punchy, enemies were tougher, etc. Bring back heavy customization elements (retooled of course), ammo types, etc of the first game, combine them with ME3's combat and baby we got a stew going.
BrassDragon
Member
I'd really like heavy weapons and physical (not skill-based) grenades back. Let me equip companions with them so I have more options in a fight and don't always feel compelled to bring the members with the optimal skills.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't care, I said it didn't bother me all that much. I can definitely understand where people are coming from and a great ending would have obviously been the icing on the cake but even so it didn't really taint my experience.
I just disagree on that point. The ending didn't invalidate the journey or the choices I made because they mattered in the moment and context I made them in. I didn't just make them so that they pay off in the end, because the thing with choices is that you never know if they will and in what way. Again, the ending was bad and poorly executed, I'm not disputing that, it's just that my enjoyment of the series didn't hinge on it.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I think you hit the nail on the head on the difference between Drew K and Mac.
I felt Drew K had a much better grasp of the big picture, while Mac was better at the little details. As Drew K's involvement in the writing decreased and Mac's increased these differences became obvious. THis is obvious when ME3's plot was all over the place, but many of the character moments prior to the final act of the game were still pretty damn top notch.
SliChillax
Member
Best part of ME3 was the sound. Did anyone try playing with a proper home theater setup? The biotic power sounds will destroy the living room.
dat Abomination's explosion in the MP DLC too.
prag16
Banned
I know some of the 'side" arcs like the genophage and Geth/Quarian conflict, some of the ones a lot of people liked, were attributed to other writers (not Mac). I'm biased, but I just can't stand to give that many any credit for anything.
Turdburger
Member
It hasn't passed for me. I finished ME3 the day after it came out and have not breathed on it since except to view the Extended Cut ending once when it came out. Good thing I played the shit out of the MP during the demo/beta for it prior to the game's launch because it made me not want to play that either.
It has been so long now that I'm at a point of apathy and could probably play the series again, but I agree with you on how ME3 took a big dump on the experience of the first two.
As a kid growing up loving science fiction, Mass Effect easily became my favorite gaming IP after playing the first game. Bioware obviously did something right in the first 2 games for people to be so passionately pissed off about how ME3 was handled. I can't wait to have a fresh beginning in the ME universe that has absolutely nothing to do with the original trilogy or anything that happened within.
BrassDragon
Member
I know some of the 'side" arcs like the genophage and Geth/Quarian conflict, some of the ones a lot of people liked, were attributed to other writers (not Mac). I'm biased, but I just can't stand to give that many any credit for anything.
I'm not on-board with the scapegoating of de lead writer for Mass Effect 3's shortcomings either. Presumably, all the writers sat together in the writer's pit and could see the hole in their narrative coming from a mile away. From what I understand from David Gaider's interviews and Tumblr, BioWare has several peer review sessions before major story assets are developed.
Yes, it's probably true that the leads locked themselves away at the last minute to fill the hole without peer review. But the whole team was there while the problem simmered until it boiled over in the last few months of production. And since no one ever came forward to do a mea culpa (on the contrary, they appeared to be very proud of their storytelling until the backlash caused them to go quiet) I'm going assume the dev team is collectively responsible for ending the story that way, including the fan favourites people favour over Mac Walters.
prag16
Banned
Well as mentioned there's the diatribe attributed to Patrick Weekes that puts the vast majority of the blame on Mac/Casey. And I disagree regarding the "hole coming from a mile away". As I argued a couple pages ago, I don't really have much of an issue regarding the concept of the ending (a lot of people do, xzibit meme, etc). I'm of the opinion that the same/similar concept could have been executed much better in the endgame phase. Therefore I put the vast majority of the blame on the Casey/Mac duo.
But stepping back, no, I'm not one of the people who claim the ending retroactively ruined all three games for me. Shit, the 3rd is STILL probably my favorite of the three.
I like a lot of what ME3 did for combat, but I disliked how barriers just became a different colored shield, as opposed to something strong to tech, weak to biotics.
I do think ME3 had the best weapon customization and skill systems.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Well, in all fairness that is what they're supposed to be, lorewise.
Mass Effect 1 is probably my runner up for GOTG. I agree with the comments that each entry while adding more corners of the universe, made the experience feel smaller by the laser sight focus on you, space Jesus.
I don't think the ending of ME makes ME1 a bad game. I think the final game (through a few more things than the ending alone) shows lack of care and attention to what made it good, and that bothers me a lot. I think it shows a bit of contempt, that they were willing to throw their universe away to satisfy certain artistic inclinations, and if they don't care then why should I?
I feel conceptually the franchise was in decline since before 3 (not gameplay-wise). It's not like Altairre says, that our enjoyment hinged on the ending and that's why the rest of the game is "ruined" now. It's that, conceptually, by adding a ticking clock element and end of universe scenario early on, the game itself made it so other things like discovery and exploration and character conflicts were tangential to the focus of the Reaper resolution. I begrudgingly made those concessions, and the game didn't fulfill the promise with them. The game itself retroactively diminished their value. That doesn't make the Suicide Mission mechanically bad or unexciting, just pointless.
The enjoyment I got out of 8-10 playthroughs of ME1 is still there, and I remember it so fondly I could talk about it for pages. I just have a similar issue to what brianmcdoogle and Turdburger stated before. I can't replay or revisit the universe ignoring the context I know now. I can't go through set ups when I know the payoffs. The ending casts a long shadow but I think ME3 (and the franchise in general) fumbles in many more ways than the ending alone that make me dislike the people responsible. Edit: well, not dislike them personally. I don't "hate" Mac Walters or Casey, I don't know them. I just don't have any respect for their vision anymore.
It's possible a clean slate brings that sense of wonder back. Or maybe it won't for me. Hard to say, but I'm not really excited for a new game like some people are.
Turdburger
Member
You're right, the writing team as a whole needed to never let that happen. But is it really their fault? Higher ups in a studio or dev company get their positions because they're both good at what they do and are trustworthy enough to be the one responsible for leading and directing an entire team. You don't become a lead without leadership skills and the ability to concisely direct your vision.
Mac is/was the lead writer. He's ultimately the one responsible for everything as he is the one who has the final say. His vision for the ending sucked, and his ability to direct the writing staff at the end of production when the ending was being made sucked.
If they didn't perform the correct due process at the end, whether it be peer editing or whatever was needed to make sure that what happened didn't happen, that's the lead's fault.
prag16
Banned
I understand the mindset of those who think ME1 stands far above the others, and I agree in some ways, but the way I've spent my time with the series sort of speaks for itself. I've played through ME1 twice, ME2 about 4 times, and ME3 also 4 times.
One of the reasons I'm excited for 4 though is exactly what you said. Meshing some of that sense of wonder from ME1 with the gameplay advances made in the sequels would be incredible.
A step up? As in removing actual attributes and stats, loot, inventory, exploration, quest log, etc?
Poodlestrike
Banned
Exploration has nothing to do with anything, so I don't know where that came from.
You have attributes and stats, and many significantly more meaningful decisions while leveling compared to ME1's barfilling and ME2's barebones. Loot in ME1 sucked; ME3's system means that each piece of new gear is unique and (depending on your build) valuable.
And considering that I called the decoupling of Paragon/Renegade from Persuade a step up, I find it confusing that you didn't address it. What's up with that, man?
TC McQueen
Member
ME3 had a better inventory, loot, and use of stats than ME1, where practically everything just added some insignificant amount of something for each iteration of the same item/stat, almost everything was visually identical save for color, there was tons of skill overlap in every class, and visual customization was non-existent.
I get why they put grenades and ammo on the skill wheel (it's one less menu to dive through in combat), but if they keep that system, it would be nice if they could have some slots you can swap out for different ammo/grenade types.
Mass Effect has never had stats. I think ME3 had the best skill point system in the series.
The loot in ME1 was terrible (and I'm saying this as a person who holds ME1 as their favorite game of all time!). ME3 also had weapons, weapon mods and armor pieces to find, which is a form of loot. You just didn't get it off fallen enemies, but I'd question if an RPG absolutely needs enemies dropping stuff.
Exploration I want back, but it was missing from ME2 as well, for the most part. The quest log stuff is undeniable.
disastermouse
Banned
The shooting and movement were vastly better in ME3. Moving around in ME2 felt like piloting a tank in comparison. ME3 also added weapon customization and a surprisingly awesome MP.
Arent skills solely dedicated to combat in 3?
Yes. But only ME1 had skills dedicated to speech, and most people dislike how they were done, due to the railroading of a player along a certain path.
Ammo types as skills was the dumbest thing and reeked of skill padding to me. These are future guns; either make it on a per weapon basis, or just a slider selection a la Dredd pistol.
I'd prefer contextual loot to just enemies dropping random stuff. I think it fits the kind of game more, but I disagree that loot in ME1 was terrible. Managing it, maybe. The loot and weapon mod/ammo customization was perfectly fine. It actually had a major effect on the weapon in terms of precision, damage and overheat reduction-- when overheating was actually a thing. Preparing beforehand with tungsten, polonium, radioactive, etc rounds and switching mods before certain fights was very fun for me. It even brought some challenge to being a weapon specialist as opposed to every other TPS. Not that you would pick soldier anyway. Yuck.
I'd prefer contextual loot to just enemies dropping random stuff. I think it fits the kind of game more, but I disagree that loot in ME1 was terrible. Managing it, maybe. The loot and weapon mod/ammo customization was perfectly fine. It actually had a major effect on the weapon in terms of precision, damage and overheat reduction-- when overheating was actually a thing. Preparing beforehand with tungsten, polonium, radioactive, etc rounds and switching mods before certain fights was very fun for me. It even brought some challenge to being a weapon specialist as opposed to every other TPS. Not that you would pick soldier anyway. Yuck.
Well that tends to happen when you make binary systems. Also werent the tech skills used for things in the game world?
Right. Forgot that electronics and decryption were used for lock picking, but only in ME1.
ME3 is still a vast improvement on complexity over ME2. Also, I still think the ME3 skill system is the best in the series.
Best reason to bring Tali on away missions to crack open those data pads and fallen satellites, etc.
- Status