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[DOWN]

imo the idea of ME is better than the execution

Well I think everyone can agree on that. Reviews at the time were often noting creative brilliance plagued by tech that wasn't up to the challenge. But when they couldn't figure out and technologically manage the execution, they dumped a lot for the sequel.

 

[Big Nikus]

I'm at the beginning of a new playthrough of ME1 and I still enjoy it very much (Mako and all).
I love the beginning so much, with the first footage of Sovereign (at first he looks like a giant hand coming out of the void, kinda like BioWare's old logo ).

 

[diaspora]

Well I think everyone can agree on that. Reviews at the time were often noting creative brilliance plagued by tech that wasn't up to the challenge. But when they couldn't figure out and technologically manage the execution, they dumped a lot for the sequel.

Mass Effect was never going to be this big open adventure on UE, never. It evolved for the best.

 

[Ralemont]

Let's compromise and say ME1's characterization was thinner than usual for a BioWare game. It's still got better characters than 90% of games out there.

 

[Blue Ninja]

True enough.

 

[Big_Al]

So finally got some time to play the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer last night, still very active and had no problems getting into matches. Really enjoying it and overall very pleasantly surprised at how well done it is, with the various objectives to mix things up and stay fresh each round. I also like the fact that there's different characters with their own powers like the Vorcha etc. Saw some player running about as a Collector and it looked like a ton of fun to play as. I can definitely see me getting some playtime out of this as long as the community remains. I'm honestly surprised it's still going after 4 years but I guess there's nothing else like it in the Mass Effect series and it is the only game with multi so keeps everyone in one place. Plus no splitting of the community due to all the DLC being free.

 

[diaspora]

Starbuck (ME wiki contributer) has been streaming ME3 MP recently too iirc and has been for a while.

 

[Bisnic]

It's funny to think that ME3 MP is still active considering it's 4 years old now. Remember when, before the game launched, people thought the MP would be abandoned and closed after a year? lol

 

[Big Nikus]

Starbuck (ME wiki contributer) has been streaming ME3 MP recently too iirc and has been for a while.

Yeah, I discovered her streams a few weeks ago.
Her channel, for those interested.
She's also doing a run of Dragon Age Origins these days.

I've played some ME3 multiplayer too yesterday, it's one of the only multiplayer modes I can play without feeling that I totally suck. I've got to adjust to the keyboard/mouse controls on PC but I like it.

I'm really glad that they've not abandonned the idea for Andromeda and that they'll expand on it. I'm sure it will be even better (I'm betting they'll had vehicles).

 

[Poodlestrike]

Well of course, one would hope so in a sequel, that's to be expected. I thought each character had unique characteristics, ideals, history, motivations, and a ton of other details surrounding each in my opinion. It's all subjective but "paper thin" is the farthest from how I would describe them.

Well, I mean, the goal with sequels is to grow the characters, but that's genrally by building on their existing base, rather than dramatically altering their characterization. Garrus and Tali in particular are fairly rote types (good guy cop, socially awkward engineer) that basically vanished in ME2, being replaced by significantly more interesting characters. Liara is the only one I'd point to as following a conventional arc, rather than just being wholly rewritten, and even then it's tough to imagine ME1 Liara becoming an information broker. They've all got characterization, but compared to their later incarnations, they're pretty shallow.

imo the idea of ME is better than the execution

Very very very much so.

Let's compromise and say ME1's characterization was thinner than usual for a BioWare game. It's still got better characters than 90% of games out there.

This is true.

 

[diaspora]

ME1 companions with the exception of Wrex are broad but shallow strokes. But being expanded on in later titles isn't really much of an excuse most of the companions in Inquisition showed up there first and still are far better written.

 

[DOWN]

The character concepts were better in 1 (which I'm sure played a part in making them prime candidates for return in ME3 instead of a larger new cast), but even I would admit that the characterizations were light in favor of sharing more commentary on the current events of the game. Garrus, Tali, and Liara became shockingly interesting to me in ME2, when in ME1 I found Garrus' style intriguing despite low substance, and had actually disliked Tali and Liara originally.

Paper thin is dramatic, but they did indeed lack a lot of the details and pedigree you'd expect of the alleged best crew to chase down the biggest threat in the galaxy. Mass Effect 2 and 3 made it clear why exactly each crew member could hold their own on the field and on their record.

But also I guess it's time for me to replay the trilogy on 360. RIP backwards compatibility and remaster.

 

[diaspora]

Character concepts aren't that useful when the execution is butt. ME2 was a huge improvement at least albeit with daddy issues being too often a crutch.

 

[Poodlestrike]

ME1 companions with the exception of Wrex are broad but shallow strokes. But being expanded on in later titles isn't really much of an excuse most of the companions in Inquisition showed up there first and still are far better written.

I'd also point to the ME2 original companions. Jacob is a bore, true, but Miranda is interesting and Jack is outright fascinating. Grunt pales before Wrex, but he's also fun in his own right. And oh man, Thane!

 

[Bisnic]

imo the idea of ME is better than the execution

I don't think anyone going to argue against that.

ME:A seems like the perfect opportunity to execute that idea (almost) perfectly, depending on how much love & polish Bioware put on it. Seems to be heading in the right direction so far.

 

[DOWN]

Thane was probably my favorite of the squad members introduced after the original game.

Character concepts aren't that useful when the execution is butt. ME2 was a huge improvement at least albeit with daddy issues being too often a crutch.

They clearly are useful when you have sequels.

 

[diaspora]

I'd also point to the ME2 original companions. Jacob is a bore, true, but Miranda is interesting and Jack is outright fascinating. Grunt pales before Wrex, but he's also fun in his own right. And oh man, Thane!

Mordin

They clearly are useful when you have sequels.

Saying they were conceptually best in the first game when they were all better written in subsequent games is nonsensical.

 

[DOWN]

I will pull my hair out if there isn't a moody, understated Garrus type of companion. A new species or female Turian or female whatever-species-Thane-was or something.

 

[Bisnic]

All this talk about squadmates... I sure hope that MEA will do as good as ME2 on that part. Since this isn't the same team as before, I have some doubts, but who knows...

 

[diaspora]

Thane was a Drell. Maybe they could add a Batarian, but idk if anyone would let a slave owning race join Pathfinder after they broke diplomatic ties.

 

[DOWN]

Saying they were conceptually best in the first game when they were all better written in subsequent games is nonsensical.

You don't create a character from random conversation scripts. The essential information, background, and personalities were created for ME1, and I consider those foundations better than the likes of Miranda or Jacob or Grunt. The expansion of the characters through dialogue was better in the sequels to me, but I can see why you are confused since you've conflated script with conceptualization.

Thane was a Drell. Maybe they could add a Batarian, but idk if anyone would let a slave owning race join Pathfinder after they broke diplomatic ties.

I hope we run into a few other crews like Batarians maybe who are on unsanctioned and poorly supported ventures of their own with the same goals of gaining new territory and giving their species a secondary threshold. I'd love to have to save a crew of Batarians that got in over their heads with a new species' planet.

 

[diaspora]

That doesn't really matter though- what we got wasn't great until 2/3, and even conceptually Thane, Mordin, and Jack are outstanding.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Mordin

Saying they were conceptually best in the first game when they were all better written in subsequent games is nonsensical.

How on earth did I forget Mordin? Nothing in ME1 measures up to Mordin.

Thane was a Drell. Maybe they could add a Batarian, but idk if anyone would let a slave owning race join Pathfinder after they broke diplomatic ties.

There was some potentially interesting material with Batarian refugees in 3, like the terrorist leader. I could see them hitching a ride; desperation makes strange bedfellows.

BTW, did we get any more details on the Ark? I know that it's launching from Earth, or near Earth, but is it human-only? Are there other Arks for other species? Or is it a collaborative effort?

 

[diaspora]

I don't think Bioware has expanded on ARKCON.

 

[Bisnic]

How on earth did I forget Mordin? Nothing in ME1 measures up to Mordin.



There was some potentially interesting material with Batarian refugees in 3, like the terrorist leader. I could see them hitching a ride; desperation makes strange bedfellows.

BTW, did we get any more details on the Ark? I know that it's launching from Earth, or near Earth, but is it human-only? Are there other Arks for other species? Or is it a collaborative effort?

Well... it can't be human only, or else we wouldn't have seen Asari, Krogan & Salarian in the latest trailer, and theses races sure aren't native from Andromeda unless there is some plot twist somewhere.

 

[DOWN]

I assumed A stood for Alliance but now have no clue since we see other species from the Milky Way in the trailer

 

[Poodlestrike]

Well... it can't be human only, or else we wouldn't have seen Asari, Krogan & Salarian in the latest trailer, and theses races sure aren't native from Andromeda unless there is some plot twist somewhere.

Yeah, but they could conceivably have their own Arks. Launching from Earth implies human-only.

Though I've got no clue how the Krogans would build an Ark. Maybe it is multi-species? There was that shot of what looked like a fleet of ships, maybe they visited various home planets picking people up.

Launching from Earth also implies that we might be setting out way earlier than we thought. Like, before ME3 kicks off.

 

[Patryn]

Yeah, but they could conceivably have their own Arks. Launching from Earth implies human-only.

Though I've got no clue how the Krogans would build an Ark. Maybe it is multi-species? There was that shot of what looked like a fleet of ships, maybe they visited various home planets picking people up.

Launching from Earth also implies that we might be setting out way earlier than we thought. Like, before ME3 kicks off.

Launching from Earth more sounds like Mac Walters to me. People wouldn't understand if they launched from, say, Thessia.

Because we're not from Thessia, so it's impossible for us to have a connection to it.

People only understand and empathize with things if it involves Earth or humans.

Spoiler

/s. Somewhat.

 

[diaspora]

For all we know their departure could literally just be motivated by exploration and colonization rather than the Reapers.

 

[DOWN]

The current assumption based on BioWare's tricky answers about when the game takes place has been that the game starts in Citdel space during the trilogy as a mission to colonize a different safer Galaxy, but the journey takes potentially hundreds of years in space time once they decide to go to Andromeda with whatever crazy tech and mass relay stuff makes it possible. So technically the game is mostly long after Shepard and the Reaper war is over, right?

 

[diaspora]

Yes.

 

[Patryn]

The current assumption based on BioWare's tricky answers about when the game takes place has been that the game starts in Citdel space during the trilogy as a mission to colonize a different safer Galaxy, but the journey takes potentially hundreds of years in space time once they decide to go to Andromeda with whatever crazy tech and mass relay stuff makes it possible. So technically the game is mostly long after Shepard and the Reaper war is over, right?

Correct. That scenario also fits the wishy-washy answers where Bioware indicated that it both took place during and after the trilogy.

I'll give them this: It's a fairly effective way to sidestep the whole ME3 ending fiasco while avoiding a total reboot.

 

[DOWN]

For all we know their departure could literally just be motivated by exploration and colonization rather than the Reapers.

Yes, though I would think they were trying to tie it better to the characters/events we cared about without having to consider decisions made by the player, so vaguely launching a parallel team to escape impending reaper attacks before any major trilogy related outcomes and endings in the timeline makes some sense, no?

 

[diaspora]

It could, but considering it's hundreds of years later they could do either anyway. AFAIK they're just using the OT as a base for the racial and racial historical lore.

 

[Bisnic]

It could, but considering it's hundreds of years later they could do either anyway. AFAIK they're just using the OT as a base for the racial and racial historical lore.

Yeah... i suspect Krogans will still hate Turians & Salarians and vice versa, and they'll have to yet again tell to us(players) about the Genophage because of new players to the franchise.

 

[DOWN]

It could, but considering it's hundreds of years later they could do either anyway. AFAIK they're just using the OT as a base for the racial and racial historical lore.

Yeah, I don't think they'll talk about the trilogy outside the intro hour or so of the game. For the most part it seems to be a way to carry some aesthetics and species to a new setting and story. Which is what I wanted, as I don't want a prequel or sequel to the events of the trilogy honestly.

 

[Poodlestrike]

The current assumption based on BioWare's tricky answers about when the game takes place has been that the game starts in Citdel space during the trilogy as a mission to colonize a different safer Galaxy, but the journey takes potentially hundreds of years in space time once they decide to go to Andromeda with whatever crazy tech and mass relay stuff makes it possible. So technically the game is mostly long after Shepard and the Reaper war is over, right?

Pretty much, yeah.

It could, but considering it's hundreds of years later they could do either anyway. AFAIK they're just using the OT as a base for the racial and racial historical lore.

And the tech and aesthetic, let's not forget.

 

[diaspora]

And the tech and aesthetic, let's not forget.

Yeah I mean I had that funneled under lore. Hopefully Asari and women have actual helmets this time.

 

[The 18th Letter]

So finally got some time to play the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer last night, still very active and had no problems getting into matches. Really enjoying it and overall very pleasantly surprised at how well done it is, with the various objectives to mix things up and stay fresh each round. I also like the fact that there's different characters with their own powers like the Vorcha etc. Saw some player running about as a Collector and it looked like a ton of fun to play as. I can definitely see me getting some playtime out of this as long as the community remains. I'm honestly surprised it's still going after 4 years but I guess there's nothing else like it in the Mass Effect series and it is the only game with multi so keeps everyone in one place. Plus no splitting of the community due to all the DLC being free.

I put way too many hours into the multiplayer, and one of the reason was because of the amount of characters and different playstyles that were possible.

Using Infiltrators as an example, the Geth was more of a cloak and snipe powerhouse. On the other hand the N7 Shadow was a more up close, CQC character. Or you could play a ranged N7 Shadow.

The game made soloing interesting, fun and possible. I solo'd platinum with majority of the characters, using multiple builds so the amount of freedom it gave you to effectively play each class added to replayablilty. Then there were characters that shined in a team environment. Setting up tech/fire/biotic explosions working in tandem with another player to just clean up wave after wave in seconds..

Mass Effect 3 is simultaneously my favorite game of all time and also my most hated. MP was fantastic and I could still play it today if I wanted but the single player was so bad I almost didn't even play the MP. I think what made me give it a chance was seeing my brother play it when the first DLC dropped

and like Bisnic said, it's crazy because when they announced MP almost everyone hated the idea.

 

[Big Nikus]

Yeah... i suspect Krogans will still hate Turians & Salarians and vice versa, and they'll have to yet again tell to us(players) about the Genophage because of new players to the franchise.

I cured the genophage and I'll have to do it again

My GF is bummed because there likely won't be Geths on the Arks (because depending on player's choices, they were still deadly enemies in ME3). She loved the Geths.

 

[Heckler456]

I cured the genophage and I'll have to do it again

My GF is bummed because there likely won't be Geths on the Arks (because depending on player's choices, they were still deadly enemies in ME3). She loved the Geths.

There probably won't be geth, but I'd be disappointed if they didn't broach the topic of AI and all that at all in the game. And in the end, that's really what that entire thing is about anyway.

 

[Ralemont]

There probably won't be geth, but I'd be disappointed if they didn't broach the topic of AI and all that at all in the game. And in the end, that's really what that entire thing is about anyway.

According to one of the unverified leaks, there's a synthetic squad member, so...

 

[Heckler456]

According to one of the unverified leaks, there's a synthetic squad member, so...

Oh well, there we go. Probably another unshackled AI like EDI.

 

[diaspora]

Oh well, there we go. Probably another unshackled AI like EDI.

Could be a stowaway Geth program or... really anything to be honest.

 

[Bisnic]

Oh well, there we go. Probably another unshackled AI like EDI.

As long as it doesn't have boobs this time I'm ok with this. Once was enough, maybe too much even.

 

[DOWN]

I can't believe I bought all the ME3 DLC and never played it. I also elected to not install From Ashes even though it came with my copy on day one because i couldn't wrap my head around it creatively. Like it dramatically affects the lore, but yet it wasn't even part of the base game really. It's optional DLC that perhaps most players didn't even see, which makes it seem probable that it didn't actual make the final draft of ME3 as they envisioned it, but was sort of put in after. It seems it wasn't fundamental enough for them to want everyone to see it, not to mention it is bizarre in premise based on the setup of the universe and how the game plays without that DLC.

Did BioWare ever directly comment on that DLC? I just can't help but feel like it is not really part of the central vision they had for the game and hence got either added late to be day one optional DLC or cut because of how it doesn't fit and isn't essential in their eyes. I would love to hear that it wasn't an afterthought to encourage pre-orders and the like, but it also clearly is nonessential if it didn't get put in the base game.

That said, I'll play it next time through.

 

[Kabouter]

I can't believe I bought all the ME3 DLC and never played it. I also elected to not install From Ashes even though it came with my copy on day one because i couldn't wrap my head around it creatively. Like it dramatically affects the lore, but yet it wasn't even part of the base game really. It's optional DLC that perhaps most players didn't even see, which makes it seem probable that it didn't actual make the final draft of ME3 as they envisioned it, but was sort of put in after. It seems it wasn't fundamental enough for them to want everyone to see it, not to mention it is bizarre in premise based on the setup of the universe and how the game plays without that DLC.

Did BioWare ever directly comment on that DLC? I just can't help but feel like it is not really part of the central vision they had for the game and hence got either added late to be day one optional DLC or cut because of how it doesn't fit and isn't essential in their eyes. I would love to hear that it wasn't an afterthought to encourage pre-orders and the like, but it also clearly is nonessential if it didn't get put in the base game.

That said, I'll play it next time through.

I got the impression after playing it that From Ashes wasn't added late, I get the feeling it was a core component of the game that was cut last minute to make more money on DLC. It feels like a core part of the game to be honest.

 

[The Lamonster]

As long as it doesn't have boobs this time I'm ok with this. Once was enough, maybe too much even.

There's actually some dialogue indicating that she also has a vagina. I forget who talks about it but you have to choose the path where she and Joker have a relationship.

 

[Heckler456]

I think it was to entice people to pre-order and buy day-one. ME3 released in that weird period where people were still figuring out how to do that type of stuff well. At least, that's how I remember it.

There's actually some dialogue indicating that she also has a vagina. I forget who talks about it but you have to choose the path where she and Joker have a relationship.

I don't remember that specific implication being made. I do remember them roundabout discussing how sex would work, but even that I can't remember clearly.

 

[Ralemont]

I got the impression after playing it that From Ashes wasn't added late, I get the feeling it was a core component of the game that was cut last minute to make more money on DLC. It feels like a core part of the game to be honest.

In the Nov 2011 leaked script, Javik was originally the Catalyst. It's safe to say ME3's main plot went through several rewrites, and writing Javik out of that slot was one of the rewrites. My bet is that once they decided to change the nature of the Catalyst and cut Javik from that role, they either had the choice to simply cut him or reshape his character into Day one DLC. With the way BW's studio worked at the time, without Day One DLC a bunch of the dev team just kinda sits on their hands doing nothing. From Ashes got them extra budget and allowed them to keep on their staff.

This dev post goes into some details a bit more.