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The Mass Effect Community Thread

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EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
EatChildren mannnn, I thought you loved this series...

You are crushing my hopes and dreams with an iron fist :(

Love it, and as much as the ending crushed me, and sticks in my heart as a deep, burning failure and waste of potential for something I was (and am) thoroughly invested in, I take a far more optimistic, forward moving stance on the series future that doesn't rely on poorly supported ramblings of desperation. The fucked up the trilogy's end, but I still enjoyed 90% of the ride. Pick a canon, or make one up, and you've good framework to move forward in the new game.

Given the implications are it's a sequel, I hope they're not afraid to do that, and don't fall back on pandering to "but muh choices" from fans clinging to the Shepard trilogy.
 
Oh no, not the Indoctrination Theory again !! I'll be glad when the new game is out so people wont bring up that wacky theory anymore lol . Bioware just messed up big time, nothing more than that.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Love it, and as much as the ending crushed me, and sticks in my heart as a deep, burning failure and waste of potential for something I was (and am) thoroughly invested in, I take a far more optimistic, forward moving stance on the series future that doesn't rely on poorly supported ramblings of desperation. The fucked up the trilogy's end, but I still enjoyed 90% of the ride. Pick a canon, or make one up, and you've good framework to move forward in the new game.

Given the implications are it's a sequel, I hope they're not afraid to do that, and don't fall back on pandering to "but muh choices" from fans clinging to the Shepard trilogy.

Do you think the Extended Cut/Leviathan help the ending at all?

I only finished the game after the Extended Cut came out and I was generally satisfied with what I got.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Is that top one Virmire, Dennis?

Great shots, btw. Loved how desolate ME1's worlds were, strangely it worked in its favour.
 
Do you think the Extended Cut/Leviathan help the ending at all?

I only finished the game after the Extended Cut came out and I was generally satisfied with what I got.

I thought the one step older ending (director's cut? the one before Leviathans) was pretty good. I thought ME3 itself works pretty well as a whole, endings and all, but the problem arises when you try to make everything fit as if the trilogy was one continous story.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Do you think the Extended Cut/Leviathan help the ending at all?

I only finished the game after the Extended Cut came out and I was generally satisfied with what I got.

Yes, I think it did, because it added necessary substance where there wasn't any to begin with. The vanilla cut is really, really bad in terms of providing any sort of reasoning and closure for what's going on. Context aside, vanilla is just outright awful and clearly unfinished (I'm pretty sure Hudson later admitted the Extended Cut content was intended for the main game).

But context matters, and my issue with the ending is just that. I loathe the direction they took the trilogy's themes, the Catalyst's nonsensical reasoning, and the overall feeling of dissatisfaction with the excuses being thrown at you for why things are the way they are, and your options for the future. To me it really feels like the Mass Effect you know, good and bad, stops right when Shepard is uplifted on the magic platform. Then along comes that Catalyst and the entire conversation is junk that could be transplanted from any other series due to how frustratingly little sense it makes.

That's done and over now though. I just want BioWare to basically take the "In a universe of infinite possibilities, here is one..." stance and construct an ending that's basically "destroy" without the synthetic apocalypse and start a new story that's about a post-war semi-flourishing galaxy using the need for resources and lack of a Reaper-sized threat as an excuse to start popping open relays and seeing what the rest of the galaxy is like.
 

Kabouter

Member
No, it is from ME2, I forget the name of the planet. This one




Pretty sure these are from different missions on different planets, yet those moons are pretty much the same. Must be indoctrination, no way Bioware would have done that otherwise.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Is it wrong that I teared up in my ending (destroy) when Liara failed to put the "Commander Shepard" plaque on the memorial wall?

The music overall is fantastic.
 
Pretty sure these are from different missions on different planets, yet those moons are pretty much the same. Must be indoctrination, no way Bioware would have done that otherwise.

Okay, I think we are all dancing around the elephant in the room. Practically everyone who had some contact with the Catalyst must had became indoctrinated. How else would they not notice, that the Catalyst fits the Citadel like a hand fits a glove. The Citadel is only the most well known single structure in the whole Galaxy. And there they are building something called a Catalyst... well, I'm no chemist (unlike the thousands chemists that must have worked with the project), but I know what the word means. Would it maybe be possible that this Catalyst needs some other ancient component in order to work... nope, it's not a mass effect relay, what else its there...
 
Love it.......the ending crushed me, and sticks in my heart as a deep, burning failure and waste of potential for something I was (and am) thoroughly invested in.

Fuck......I'm not good with words and I've never been able to describe my feelings towards Mass Effect but that just described it to a T. I can't listen to the Mass Effect 3 Soundtrack without nearly feeling physically hurt in my heart for what could have been.

JyTy0UA.jpg

Don't leave me behind..... :(

I don't care if people laugh but the Shepard/Kaidan romance is the only time I've ever truly cared about two characters in a videogame
and I bawled like a baby when Kaidan hesitates putting Shepards name up on the memorial

I don't care how but they HAVE to give me closure.....
 

Kikujiro

Member
I'm halfway through Mass Effect 1 and despite the jankiness, the bad controls, and a lot of other smaller issues, I'm enjoying the world building. Bioware is really good at making a detailed and believable world.

I think the Mako exploration is a good idea, I'm disappointed that they dropped it in ME2, with more work it could've been something really great.

Should I play the rest of the trilogy back to back or take a pause between them?
 

royox

Member
Daily reminder: There are people that will play ME3 before ME1 and ME2 and there are people that says that you can do that because the game explains everything you need to understand the story.
 

Vashetti

Banned
Daily reminder: There are people that will play ME3 before ME1 and ME2 and there are people that says that you can do that because the game explains everything you need to understand the story.

It's just wrong. The strength of this series is in the characters, their interactions and relationships.

A catch-up comic at the start of the game to make some key choices just isn't the same.
 

televator

Member
I'm actually playing the firts game again. It's only making me angry if I think about where this ends up in the third game... I can't even imagine getting around to the third game again without wanting to destroy something beautiful
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Love it, and as much as the ending crushed me, and sticks in my heart as a deep, burning failure and waste of potential for something I was (and am) thoroughly invested in, I take a far more optimistic, forward moving stance on the series future that doesn't rely on poorly supported ramblings of desperation. The fucked up the trilogy's end, but I still enjoyed 90% of the ride. Pick a canon, or make one up, and you've good framework to move forward in the new game.

Given the implications are it's a sequel, I hope they're not afraid to do that, and don't fall back on pandering to "but muh choices" from fans clinging to the Shepard trilogy.

For me I choose to think of the Citadel as the real ending. I had long finished the game when that DLC came out. I kind of wish someone would make a MOD for the PC such that the Citadel can be the real ending.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Is it wrong that I teared up in my ending (destroy) when Liara failed to put the "Commander Shepard" plaque on the memorial wall?

The music overall is fantastic.

Fuck......I'm not good with words and I've never been able to describe my feelings towards Mass Effect but that just described it to a T. I can't listen to the Mass Effect 3 Soundtrack without nearly feeling physically hurt in my heart for what could have been.

JyTy0UA.jpg

Don't leave me behind..... :(

I don't care if people laugh but the Shepard/Kaidan romance is the only time I've ever truly cared about two characters in a videogame
and I bawled like a baby when Kaidan hesitates putting Shepards name up on the memorial

I don't care how but they HAVE to give me closure.....
Funny thing about the memorial hesitation thing : it only happen if you choose the destroy ending because there is a chance Shepard might still be alive. But choose control or synthesis and they will actually put his/her name on it.
 
And it's become Mac Walters' only source of creativity. Seriously he's almost connected them to EVERY plotline from ME1 and ME2 by now and they were also everywhere in ME3. it's ruining my immersion.
To be fair, Drew Karpyshn had a huge Cerberus boner and was the one that took them from "black ops cell gone rogue" to "giant terrorist organization with tons of resources."
 

doemaaan

Member
Not to bring a dead discussion back from the grave, but I have to reply. TLDR - The IT can go either way.

Shepard is suffering PTSD. The shadows are not exclusive to indoctrination.
Oho, but they probably are for ME. There is a conversation you have with the Rachni Queen in ME 1 through the body of an Asari and during it, she explains that whilst she and her young were under the attacks of indoctrination by the Reapers during their last visit, she claimed to see "oily black shadows" while sleeping. The very same entities that appear in Shepard's dreams in ME3.
Seeing as how something that specific is explained and visual seen, I'll go with them being attempts of indoctrination on Shepard. PTSD works too if you want it to.

Ashley/Kaiden armour visual style is used to represent common generic human troops. They're repeated because the corpses are a simple repeated asset.
Except that common generic group hasn't been used since ME1. Why are they showing up now at the end of ME3? And why are they all scalped?? (irrelevant, but why?) And how in the hell did all of those bodies magically appear there? After Shepard wakes up after Harbinger's beam, he can clearly see Harbinger flying away. So Shepard hadn't been knocked out for too long. A couple of minutes max. He get's up and there are hundreds of soldiers that coincidentally all happen to be wearing outdated gear piled-up-dead on the sides? How can Bioware have screwed "this" up? They deliberately modeled them to look like ME1 soldiers and deliberately placed an absurd amount of them there in a short period of time. (they are supposed to be a visual representation of either a dead Kaiden or Ashley. your choice on Virmire in ME1)

Both continuity error. Not the first in the saga.
Ok, fair enough, but man oh man, I still have trouble accepting how that kid got from one building to the next that fast.

Because BioWare. Because they wanted to give a hint that Shepard lives, and to get people talking. Lots of speculation from everyone.
Ok, fair enough, but pretty devious of them to include only one 20 second secret movie at the end of the ending that just so happens to line up with the indoctrination theory.

It's nice to want things. Again, almost all of these arguments have the prerequisite that BioWare's narrative structure is perfect and they made no errors during the telling of this narrative and development of the game. This is a confirmation bias.
You maybe right and I'm glad there are people like you out there who constantly fight for their side. I really try not to be bias, but I still can't shake the feeling that the IT is a real thing or at least something that someone from Bioware will finally acknowledge was deliberate. From the pieces of evidences that seem undeniable to me, all the way to the tweeted answers from people who work at Bioware, winking and saying "Maybe" or "You never know" at questions to the IT. Yup, I still can't shake the feeling.

Because Bioware is incompetent. Why would you make up this elaborate theory when the obvious and only logical explanation is that Bioware just didn't think of that but wanted to have Shepard interact with the kid once then see him get killed as he's leaving earth, with the kid being intended to symbolize the suffering on earth and so on. Do you really think every part of the Mass Effect trilogy is so deliberate that they took everything into account? If you start thinking like that, you could poke a million holes into the whole thing.
Well, "I" didn't make up the theory. I found out about it in the second doc. And you know what? You could be right. Maybe the "only" logical explanation is that Bioware IS incompetent and the whole story with the kid in the beginning was lazily done. Or maybe, as I stated with EatCheese earlier, that something happened near the end of their development and things needed to be changed, so they added in all of these trails that ultimately lead to the IT. No one knows for a fact, right? So it could go either way.

Do you know what kind of ending BioWare planned before ME3? Dark Energy/Element Zero, the sun "Dholen", the human Reaper/human DNA... everything was scrapped before they started developing ME3, so there was never the intention to create an ending like the one described in those IT videos.
Yes, Shepard was supposed to be indoctrinated, but that was another mechanic. Much simpler than you might think -> "you're regaining control"; "you're losing control" which would lead to a boss fight with TIM (which didn't happen because BioWare couldn't implement the right gameplay mechanics). So where are design docs for the indoctrination theory? It's simply a messed up and often reworked ending.
Yes, I'd read a bit about the several ideas, but just because for whatever reason those were tossed out, how do you know the IT wasn't fully intended at some point? I'd love to get these design docs on the IT, but Bioware won't say as much as a peep about them. And I'm sure there are many other things they refuse to comment on regarding the other ending(s) as well.
 

Dawg

Member
I just realised I never actually completed Mass Effect 3. I don't know why it took me this long to remember. I really thought I already completed it but it seems I was wrong. I was confusing Mass Effect 2 memories and watching my brother play Mass Effect 3. I've only played the intro to ME3 myself.

I wonder if I should give it a go now. I've heard some good things about the DLC as well, I'm just not sure what I'll think about the ending. I've been hearing about the colors forever but don't actually know what'll happen. The ride to the ending should be fun though... I guess.
 

Vashetti

Banned
I just realised I never actually completed Mass Effect 3. I don't know why it took me this long to remember. I really thought I already completed it but it seems I was wrong. I was confusing Mass Effect 2 memories and watching my brother play Mass Effect 3. I've only played the intro to ME3 myself.

I wonder if I should give it a go now. I've heard some good things about the DLC as well, I'm just not sure what I'll think about the ending. I've been hearing about the colors forever but don't actually know what'll happen. The ride to the ending should be fun though... I guess.

Make sure you have the Extended Cut (free DLC), and the From Ashes, Leviathan and Citadel DLC packs installed prior.

If you want it, Omega is a great DLC but not as essential as those above.
 

Zen

Banned
IT is a far better ending then what we got. I'm totally fine with believing it in my head, even if not intended by Bioware (arguable considering all the oddities and how well IT lines up); "The Author is Dead/ Roland Barthes" comes to mind.

I'm sure they won't go with it, but who knows if ME'4' will even disprove it overtly.
 

prag16

Banned
I agree with the first point, and firmly believe if BioWare was given more time, or had better managed the time they had, we'd have got a better ending. Maybe.

I've seen bits and pieces of all three. I've heard the arguments ad nauseum, and was around when they first came to be. They're made up, make believe, wishful thinking of desperate fans who cannot come to terms with BioWare's failure. An absurd volume of their arguments rely on the extreme bias that the issues exist not because of development failure, but instead careful, deliberate tricks, continuity areas, hints, and so on, right up to a gross misunderstanding of how video games are made, trying to argue that reused textures are indicative of a grand narrative structure instead of just reused textures.

People can believe what they want to believe, but that won't change the fact the ending was ballsed up by incompetent leadership, poor time management, or bad writers, or a combination of all. Shepard conversed with space brat, convoluted contradictory nonsense ensured, then space magic happened, and it was if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror.

Yeah. The indoctrination theory was a really cool idea. I loved it as a concept. But from the start I knew there was 1% chance at most that it was real and intended by Bioware.

After the Extended Cut that 1% went down to 0%. But to be honest the ending didn't ruin the series for me. I still played through ME3 four times in full (including a full 1-2-3 run after I'd completed 3 twice), with a fifth run halfway done that I'll pick back up eventually.
 

LastNac

Member
I kind of want that barren, unexplored world to return from Mass Effect 1. Sure, make them more versatile but bring back that sense of stranger in a strange land.
 

Dawg

Member
Make sure you have the Extended Cut (free DLC), and the From Ashes, Leviathan and Citadel DLC packs installed prior.

If you want it, Omega is a great DLC but not as essential as those above.

Citadel was the highest rated DLC, right? I remember reading very good things about it.

I'm kinda surprised BioWare/EA never released a GOTY edition like they did with ME2. I want to buy everying together easily :(
 

kurahador

Member
Citadel was the highest rated DLC, right? I remember reading very good things about it.

I'm kinda surprised BioWare/EA never released a GOTY edition like they did with ME2. I want to buy everying together easily :(

Citadel DLC is an ending that we deserve. Love it so much.

ME2 has GOTY edition???
 

Vashetti

Banned
Citadel was the highest rated DLC, right? I remember reading very good things about it.

I'm kinda surprised BioWare/EA never released a GOTY edition like they did with ME2. I want to buy everying together easily :(

Citadel is a fantastic DLC and gives great closure, but From Ashes and Leviathan are absolutely essential and should have been in the game by default.

From Ashes obviously was, and was then chopped out to be sold as Day 1 DLC.
 

Tellaerin

Member
I just realised I never actually completed Mass Effect 3. I don't know why it took me this long to remember. I really thought I already completed it but it seems I was wrong. I was confusing Mass Effect 2 memories and watching my brother play Mass Effect 3. I've only played the intro to ME3 myself.

You've been indoctrinated! You thought you completed the game, but all this time it was just a hallucination implanted in your mind by the Reapers! :eek:

IT is a far better ending then what we got. I'm totally fine with believing it in my head, even if not intended by Bioware (arguale considering all the odities and how well IT lines up); "The Author is Dead/ Roland Barthes" comes to mind.

I'm sure they won't go with it, but who knows if ME'4' will even disprove it overtly.

I don't know, man. I feel like IT's pretty much the epitome of fanwank - a lot of desperate reaching and seizing upon anything that remotely resembles evidence to try to prove a theory that would "fix" the ending by making it all a dream. That doesn't feel like an improvement on anything we got in the EC, IMO.
 

Dawg

Member
Citadel DLC is an ending that we deserve. Love it so much.

ME2 has GOTY edition???

I got it mixed up with the PS3 version. That was basically a complete edition.

mass-effect-2-ps3.jpg


I love it when publishers make an edition like this, especially for games I haven't played yet.

'dat content mon.
 

Taker34

Banned
Yes, I'd read a bit about the several ideas, but just because for whatever reason those were tossed out, how do you know the IT wasn't fully intended at some point? I'd love to get these design docs on the IT, but Bioware won't say as much as a peep about them. And I'm sure there are many other things they refuse to comment on regarding the other ending(s) as well.

Alright now you're being ridiculous. Tinfoil hat and stuff... dream on doemaaan. Dream on.
 

prag16

Banned
Shepard is suffering PTSD. The shadows are not exclusive to indoctrination.



Ashley/Kaiden armour visual style is used to represent common generic human troops. They're repeated because the corpses are a simple repeated asset.




Both continuity error. Not the first in the saga.



Because BioWare. Because they wanted to give a hint that Shepard lives, and to get people talking. Lots of speculation from everyone.



It's nice to want things. Again, almost all of these arguments have the prerequisite that BioWare's narrative structure is perfect and they made no errors during the telling of this narrative and development of the game. This is a confirmation bias.

Indeed. Indoctrination theory doesn't pass the Hanlon's Razor test. Never did. :(
 
Citadel was the highest rated DLC, right? I remember reading very good things about it.

I'm kinda surprised BioWare/EA never released a GOTY edition like they did with ME2. I want to buy everying together easily :(

Citadel was really fun, but it was so adequately released that i don't think the experience of playing it during, or right after the main game would yield the same results.

I suggest you wait half a year after playing ME3 before playing Citadel.
 

Zen

Banned
You've been indoctrinated! You thought you completed the game, but all this time it was just a hallucination implanted in your mind by the Reapers! :eek:



I don't know, man. I feel like IT's pretty much the epitome of fanwank - a lot of desperate reaching and seizing upon anything that remotely resembles evidence to try to prove a theory that would "fix" the ending by making it all a dream. That doesn't feel like an improvement on anything we got in the EC, IMO.

The only thing that seems like reaching to me is pointing out the shrubs and trees from your dream being present in the environment when you wake up from being hit by Sovereign, since that can very easily simply be a result of them having more room in the engine to make the area look detailed.

On the other hand it's not a leap to say that they intentionally placed those assets either. Do we really think that Bioware is so incompetent as to create so many oddities at the start of the invasion with earth regarding the child that can't be heard, and disappears in a second with no noise? Or how Shepards own symptoms line up with the codex statement on indoctrination and things that the Rachni Queen said? Is all of that simply a coincidence that no one at Bioware intended or noticed?

I dunno, to me it seems like a very detailed, cohesive, and internally consistent theory with few examples of over reach. IEven if it is highly possible that IT isn't intended (Likely!) I think it's still a very valid reading of the ending, there's too much evidence to support it.
 

Bombless

Member
All I want from the next Mass Effect is an even better multiplayer mode. Hopefully doing away with the awful match system they had and moving onto hosted servers, more persistancy, more game modes, more maps, more characters/classes, more of everything (just no actual pvp stuff, that would just create too many balancing issues). And reworking the controls (no more one button for all actions please, PLEASE Bioware).

I am neutral on the new world they will come up with (unless they scrapped that idea and are just keeping quiet about it).
 

Dany

Banned
I still have not played through the citadel dlc.

I did the first half and got al lthe party supplies...just never managed to throw the party. lol
 
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