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The Mass Effect Community Thread
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
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I love the trilogy. I enjoy Mass Effect 3 despite it's faults aswell. The original is beautiful and felt like vintage sci-fi, and the 2nd is one of the best action games of the generation.
I hope it's more like a combination of the first two and is more of a personal story. It needs more hub worlds or at least hub worlds with a lot more depth and quests. Gimped dialogue has to go and has to be as in depth as the original. More to come later.
I hope it's more like a combination of the first two and is more of a personal story. It needs more hub worlds or at least hub worlds with a lot more depth and quests. Gimped dialogue has to go and has to be as in depth as the original. More to come later.
I think that it is a fact that ME3 was very, very rushed.
The ending, not even regarding the story itself, has to be one of the most rushed sections of any game ever. The drop in quality in regards to everything is so big that it's mind-boggling.
I hope they make ME4 a good mix between ME1 and 2 but with even more meaningful exploration. That would be awesome
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
ME2 has more and better characters and character writing. The recruitment and loyalty quests are some of the best missions in the whole series. You'd also be wrong to say there aren't some problems unique to ME3, but the one I'll point to is the loltacular Joker-EDI romance which is so bad it almost ruins ME2's fantastic Joker/EDI relationship retroactively.
This !
And also, ME3 is a much more rushed game. The side-missions in ME2 were not perfect, but at least you did get to go on the planets and actually do something in there.
In ME3 you have the shittiest mini-game ever on the galaxy map and that's it. Biggest disappointment ever.
The sidequests sucked. Half of them where "send a probe to a planet". Eavesdropping to earn sidequests felt like a lazy idea way to avoid going into dialogue mode and giving us choices on how to reply. Journal didn't update properly either. Too much action, not enough "lets talk/investigate", like ME2's Samara/Thane loyalty missions.
They did the right thing in the ME3 Citadel/Leviathan DLC by making it half combat/half "Let's walk around and stuff", but its DLCs. Not everyone played them.
But maybe the fact the DLCs were like this is hope that the next ME game wont be all about combat.
Atraveller
Banned
Agreed, not to mention the journal system is broken.
While I think it's too late for the series as it has laid down certain ground rules (around which levels are designed), I'd like to see some more variety and less nonsense from the series.
For example:
Why do all planets have the same gravitational force?
Why do all other species fight almost exactly like humans do (one would think that Salarians who are imbued with the capability of parallel processing would make the best soldier)?
Moving on...
The series has become more shooter and less of a RPG and in doing so has relegated its level design to conform to dogmas of the genre. Mass Effect 2, for me, attained a great balance between the two and given its alliance with great cast of characters, side quests and art design remains my favourite of them all.
Now as to what I would like to see from ME4 and beyond:
For example:
Why do all planets have the same gravitational force?
Why do all other species fight almost exactly like humans do (one would think that Salarians who are imbued with the capability of parallel processing would make the best soldier)?
Moving on...
The series has become more shooter and less of a RPG and in doing so has relegated its level design to conform to dogmas of the genre. Mass Effect 2, for me, attained a great balance between the two and given its alliance with great cast of characters, side quests and art design remains my favourite of them all.
Now as to what I would like to see from ME4 and beyond:
- More imaginative alien designs
- Abilities innate and unique to other species being realized in the game world and not the codex
- Music that hearkens back to ME1
- Less or more meaningful combat
- No more creepy eavesdropping for unmarked side/fetch quests
- Satisfying plot akin to ME2
- Ability to holster weapon at will
- Better animations
Nostremitus
Member
I'm one of the few people who loved ME:3... Granted, I played it on the Wii U and therefore had extra hotkeys for powers... (I played 2 on PS3)I really enjoyed the gameplay. That said, I'm really looking forward to the next installment. I'll just have to learn to play it on PC... Since I highly doubt it'll come to Wii U.
So far, Mass Effect has been my console Bioware franchise with Dragon Age on PC.
I'm hoping for a prequel or parallel story. I really hope they don't force an ending from 3 going forward. If they do, I hope its set at least a century later so that all of the racial tensions following 3 have had time to produce socioeconomic change in the galaxy... Or you know... The Salarians have learned to repair the damaged relays and are attempting to subjugate the galaxy... Depending on the ending.
So far, Mass Effect has been my console Bioware franchise with Dragon Age on PC.
I'm hoping for a prequel or parallel story. I really hope they don't force an ending from 3 going forward. If they do, I hope its set at least a century later so that all of the racial tensions following 3 have had time to produce socioeconomic change in the galaxy... Or you know... The Salarians have learned to repair the damaged relays and are attempting to subjugate the galaxy... Depending on the ending.
Coffee Dog
Banned
I guess where we disagree is with the strength of ME2's cast. Aside from Mordin, Legion, and Garrus I thought ME2's cast was mostly bland as fuck, which is a problem that carries into the sequel.
partyphone
Banned
where's my procedural cop drama set on the citadel
set it right as the humans are joining galactic civilization
set it right as the humans are joining galactic civilization
Phat Michael
Banned
before this turns into a neogaf usual anti bioware shit storm, my only concern is will I play the new ME multiplayer first or the SP campaign. the multi was the biggest surprise of the generation for me, I can't wait to see what they do with the new hardware.
Nostremitus
Member
Blasto
Mass Effect 3 was great. From beginning to end. My only complaint was that Bioware painted themselves into a corner with the finale of ME2 and making it possible for everyone to die so they couldn't have your crew be anything more than a cameo in 3.
Oh yeah, I had Ashley kill Wrex and I don't regret that decision at all.
Oh yeah, I had Ashley kill Wrex and I don't regret that decision at all.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
The mass effect series is my fall back series. Love 'em all.
prag16
Banned
Mass Effect is my favorite game series of all time (edging out KOTOR which could have competed if a proper KOTOR3 was ever made instead of that mehtastic MMO).
I loved all three games for different reasons. Yes, the ending to 3 was embarrassingly awful; a travesty that it was concocted by people who considered themselves professional writers.
Even though it still sucks, EC, Leviathan, and Citadel DLC helped ease the butthurt (that along with the passage of time).
For the next Mass Effect, I want:
-Same genre; action RPG driven by characters/story. Bring back more RPG elements perhaps, but no need for the incredibly clunky inventory management from ME1.
-NOT a prequel. I generally don't like prequels in most cases since there's the sense of already knowing what ultimately happens. Wouldn't be a dealbreaker, but I'd like to see something set after the original trilogy.
-A bit more open in terms of locations that can be visited, and areas that can be explored in each location. 2 and 3 were a little lean on exploration.
-Yahg.
-More stuff like ME2's suicide mission, in which more than two squadmates can be put to use at a time in creative ways.
-No more Carth Onasi. He's like the thing that wouldn't leave.
I loved all three games for different reasons. Yes, the ending to 3 was embarrassingly awful; a travesty that it was concocted by people who considered themselves professional writers.
Even though it still sucks, EC, Leviathan, and Citadel DLC helped ease the butthurt (that along with the passage of time).
For the next Mass Effect, I want:
-Same genre; action RPG driven by characters/story. Bring back more RPG elements perhaps, but no need for the incredibly clunky inventory management from ME1.
-NOT a prequel. I generally don't like prequels in most cases since there's the sense of already knowing what ultimately happens. Wouldn't be a dealbreaker, but I'd like to see something set after the original trilogy.
-A bit more open in terms of locations that can be visited, and areas that can be explored in each location. 2 and 3 were a little lean on exploration.
-Yahg.
-More stuff like ME2's suicide mission, in which more than two squadmates can be put to use at a time in creative ways.
-No more Carth Onasi. He's like the thing that wouldn't leave.
Nostremitus
Member
But... But... We need a huge Krogan population for canon fodder when the Salarians make their move for galactic domination with their army of brainwashed Yahg...
Still replay the first one often, mainly to catch up with achievements, but will do a complete re-run of the saga in one go with both my Sheps.
Even though I doubt it would be possible, I think it would be really cool if Kinect could scan your face onto the game when creating a Shep. It would save me forever if it worked like that. I think Rainbow SIx 2 had something like that for the vision or something...
Even though I doubt it would be possible, I think it would be really cool if Kinect could scan your face onto the game when creating a Shep. It would save me forever if it worked like that. I think Rainbow SIx 2 had something like that for the vision or something...
partyphone
Banned
That's one of the things that didn't bother me very much. It doesn't make much sense for a ragtag group of mercenaries and weirdos to stay together for very long. Especially after their primary mission has been completed. Also ME3 is a new game so I wanted a new crew.
The problem with ME3 is that the plot was poorly thought out and the writing is awful.
holy shit.
What the hell is wrong with you?
Mustainium
Banned
As someone who thinks ME3 is the best in the series, I do hope they continue along that path gameplay-wise. I know everyone as-of-late has a hard-on for the whole open-world/exploration thing, but I don't think Bioware should even be considering that. I'd prefer something a bit more focused.
Anyway, my hopes for ME4
Anyway, my hopes for ME4
FACIAL/MOTION CAPTURE. I still can't get over how awful most of the animations in the series have been.
Expand on the gameplay how it is now. I thought ME3 struck a fine balance between action and just enough RPG elements to keep it interesting. I hope Bioware does not regress and force in stat-driven combat to silence the complaining, but I don't EA would let them do such a thing. Hopefully now that the GoW: Judgement guy is on board, I think the gameplay will be considerably less clunky.
Static first and last name. No more referring to the protagonist as "Rank Last Name", it's just awkward.
Human Protagonist. Not that I don't think an Alien Protagonist would be interesting, but I don't think it'd be possible to have multiple races along with voice-acting for the main character.
Multiplayer stays.
Either develop more interesting side-quests, or ditch them altogether. The side-quests were always the most boring content of the series, I'm not sure why people here pretend that started with ME3.
Please make it clear that the player is not actually the protagonist. There was a lot of complaining regarding Shepard's auto-dialogue, which I had absolutely no problem with. I am not Shepard. I did not create the character, I do not write for the character, and I did not voice the character. Therefore, I shouldn't think of the character as "mine". I don't know why everyone else can't do the same.
Thanks for making this, Shino!
I just love Mass Effect. Started with ME2 on PS3 and it was everything I hoped for. Same for ME3. They're two of my top games this gen and the ME franchise is without question my favorite new IP this gen. I truly do feel like it's the Star Wars of my time.
I just love Mass Effect. Started with ME2 on PS3 and it was everything I hoped for. Same for ME3. They're two of my top games this gen and the ME franchise is without question my favorite new IP this gen. I truly do feel like it's the Star Wars of my time.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
I think you misunderstand Role playing game. You are intended to believe you're the character to some degree. I have no problem with auto replies in mass effect they serve only to push along the plot but one of the more important aspects of the genre is feeling attachment on some level to the character. It's escapism pure and simple.
You disgust me.
Yeah, if they got completely rid of player choices for the next game, i would really hate that. It's one of the main reasons i like replaying the games, to see the different possibilities thanks to our choices, as minor as they can be sometimes.
devious.one
Member
Those Loyalty missions from ME2 were so good, SO GOOD. If they can mirror something as great as that in the next trilogy or whatever they end up doing, I'll be there in a heart beat.
I am still excited for the future of ME. I wish they would go with my TPS/Space Sim hybrid, set in a post ME3 galaxy where you are tasked with exploring new areas and reconnecting regions lost in the Destruction Ending which destroyed much of the MRS, but hey the best ideas aren't always the chosen ones.
cool_dude_2049
Banned
Greatest trilogy of this generation. I loved, Loved, LOVED the series, except for the ending to the third game. I vastly enjoyed developing relationships and Garus is fucking awesome.
I wouldn't mind if Mass Efffect 4 had Shepard in some form, and I suppose I would settle for a remake.
I could see a new trilogy that starts you off as some sort of officer working to keep the peace when the Krogan decide to take over or something.
So fucking hyped!!
I wouldn't mind if Mass Efffect 4 had Shepard in some form, and I suppose I would settle for a remake.
I could see a new trilogy that starts you off as some sort of officer working to keep the peace when the Krogan decide to take over or something.
So fucking hyped!!
Mustainium
Banned
You're right, but with each iteration of the franchise, ME has been shifting more towards the action genre while abandoning some of the RPG elements found in the first one, and I don't think Bioware can really sit on the fence for much longer. Perhaps the fact that the Gears guy was hired in the first place was because they really are going for a straight-up action game this time around. And if that's the best, I personally feel a pre-determined protagonist would work best.
Well I'm not saying they should get rid of the conversation wheel or anything (though I wouldn't mind that at all), I just think that Bioware needs to address the fact that even though players may have the ability put their own spin on things, it is not the player that is in control of what happens. That's the job of the developers.
patjburns89
Member
Loved all three games, though I was still slightly disappointed they strayed away from the RPG path after ME1. ME3 had its problems, but the Leviathan and Citadel DLC packs were some of the best stuff Bioware has ever done story wise. I think the talk of Bioware being dead is a little unfair.
I have no clue how they're going to do ME4, but I'm pumped regardless.
I have no clue how they're going to do ME4, but I'm pumped regardless.
Lionheart1827
Member
I keep speaking to my friend about how I'm hoping some kind of teaser is revealed for ME4 soon. I dont think there's any franchise I'm more excited for next gen than Mass Effect.
I'm hoping they bring back exploration in a huge way.
I also thought it would be cool if there was a starship customization thing as well as space battles. Have no idea how it would work though.
I'm hoping they bring back exploration in a huge way.
I also thought it would be cool if there was a starship customization thing as well as space battles. Have no idea how it would work though.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
This image makes me sad. 2 of the 3 best characters aren't there.
yeehamuffins
Member
WARNING: A huge ME fan's extremely long and pointless rant follows
I'm a total sucker, I'm sure, but Mass Effect is still one of my favorite game series, and ME4 is still one of my most anticipated upcoming games. I'm crossing my fingers that the whole ME3 ending fiasco was an object lesson to the ME4 writers, and they don't feel like they have to make a darker, more "ambiguous" plot in order to be taken seriously. To me, the best ending of all of the games was still ME1: Shepard emerging from the wreckage after the last boss fight, limping and wounded but still standing tall. It was cliche as all-get-out, but it just worked. Give me more moments like that in ME4, and I'll be happy as a pig in shit.
Like some other folks have said, for ME4 I hope they go with something a little smaller scale. Just about the last thing I want to see for the beginning of ME4 is, "Oh, hey, new PC. So, remember the legend of the Shepard and how they defeated the Reapers? Well, turns out there's an even BIGGER race that created them, and now we're going to have to fight them!"
No, no more entire galaxy threatening menaces. The ME galaxy is such a rich universe, with so many potential stories just waiting to be told. To just do "Reapers 2.0," and do the whole trilogy all over again with a bunch of new characters and nothing much else changed, would probably be just about enough to turn me off the series altogether.
At the same time, though, I don't want ME4 to be the "C-Sec Detective that never leaves the Citadel" story that some have proposed. That could be fun as a sort of side-game to make in-between main entries in the series, but not as ME4. Part of the fun for me of the ME series is the chance to explore around the galaxy and see lots of different planets and locales. But you can still have a story that does that and doesn't have to have such humongously high stakes right from the get-go.
If there's one failing the ME series has in my eyes (and there's definitely not just one, for sure) , it's that the trilogy as a whole is horribly paced. While ME2 is probably my favorite game of the series, I can see one of the reasons why it turned people off: after finding out in ME1 about the Reapers, a threat that would potentially destroy the entire galaxy, it's a bit jarring to go from that to, "Oh, there's these creepy alien guys who have abducted a few human colonies, and we think they might kinda have something to do with the Reapers, maybe, so you might check that out."
So yeah, rather than make the mistake of starting out ME4 with the huge, galaxy-threatening menace and then trying to figure out ways to raise the stakes from that, they should start ME4 small. Just as an example: you play as a Spectre agent, on the trail of some notorious criminal. But the target is actually part of a much larger conspiracy, one that in the end could lead to conflict and potential war between the different races of the galaxy.
Probably a crappy example, but something similar to that would, I think, be a good way for the next series of ME games to go: starting with low stakes, and gradually escalating them. But not introducing a new set of alien squids for the next PC to deal with.
Something I've been probably thinking about too much, but just my thoughts. Crossing my fingers that BioWare doesn't botch this one up. At the very least, there's no possible way it could be worse than the original ME3 ending.
I'm a total sucker, I'm sure, but Mass Effect is still one of my favorite game series, and ME4 is still one of my most anticipated upcoming games. I'm crossing my fingers that the whole ME3 ending fiasco was an object lesson to the ME4 writers, and they don't feel like they have to make a darker, more "ambiguous" plot in order to be taken seriously. To me, the best ending of all of the games was still ME1: Shepard emerging from the wreckage after the last boss fight, limping and wounded but still standing tall. It was cliche as all-get-out, but it just worked. Give me more moments like that in ME4, and I'll be happy as a pig in shit.
Like some other folks have said, for ME4 I hope they go with something a little smaller scale. Just about the last thing I want to see for the beginning of ME4 is, "Oh, hey, new PC. So, remember the legend of the Shepard and how they defeated the Reapers? Well, turns out there's an even BIGGER race that created them, and now we're going to have to fight them!"
No, no more entire galaxy threatening menaces. The ME galaxy is such a rich universe, with so many potential stories just waiting to be told. To just do "Reapers 2.0," and do the whole trilogy all over again with a bunch of new characters and nothing much else changed, would probably be just about enough to turn me off the series altogether.
At the same time, though, I don't want ME4 to be the "C-Sec Detective that never leaves the Citadel" story that some have proposed. That could be fun as a sort of side-game to make in-between main entries in the series, but not as ME4. Part of the fun for me of the ME series is the chance to explore around the galaxy and see lots of different planets and locales. But you can still have a story that does that and doesn't have to have such humongously high stakes right from the get-go.
If there's one failing the ME series has in my eyes (and there's definitely not just one, for sure) , it's that the trilogy as a whole is horribly paced. While ME2 is probably my favorite game of the series, I can see one of the reasons why it turned people off: after finding out in ME1 about the Reapers, a threat that would potentially destroy the entire galaxy, it's a bit jarring to go from that to, "Oh, there's these creepy alien guys who have abducted a few human colonies, and we think they might kinda have something to do with the Reapers, maybe, so you might check that out."
So yeah, rather than make the mistake of starting out ME4 with the huge, galaxy-threatening menace and then trying to figure out ways to raise the stakes from that, they should start ME4 small. Just as an example: you play as a Spectre agent, on the trail of some notorious criminal. But the target is actually part of a much larger conspiracy, one that in the end could lead to conflict and potential war between the different races of the galaxy.
Probably a crappy example, but something similar to that would, I think, be a good way for the next series of ME games to go: starting with low stakes, and gradually escalating them. But not introducing a new set of alien squids for the next PC to deal with.
Something I've been probably thinking about too much, but just my thoughts. Crossing my fingers that BioWare doesn't botch this one up. At the very least, there's no possible way it could be worse than the original ME3 ending.
legacyzero
Banned
If they bring THIS back:
Then you'll have me interested again.
Planet exploration >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scanning
Then you'll have me interested again.
Planet exploration >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scanning
I honestly don't know what they could do to redeem the series for me beyond retconning. The sheer stupidity of what was revealed in ME3 retroactively shat on the universe. This is what I wrote before:
It still amazes me that the world offered Bioware the chance for a do-over on the ending and they didn't take it. If your ending is so fucked that a portion of your fan base thinks it must be a hallucination, you have probably messed up.
Still bitter.
It still amazes me that the world offered Bioware the chance for a do-over on the ending and they didn't take it. If your ending is so fucked that a portion of your fan base thinks it must be a hallucination, you have probably messed up.
Still bitter.
If they bring THIS back:
Then you'll have me interested again.
Planet exploration >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scanning
Aw yiss. I miss the big ass suns and planets in my skyboxes. ME2 and ME3 needed more of that.
Wrex was an asshole.
NightAntilli
Banned
As always... ME3 is receiving too much hatred, and ME2 is receiving too much praise. For tl;dr, look at the end of this post.
Let's start with ME1 vs ME2.
ME1 had something ME2 didn't have.. Fights could happen anywhere. For example, take the Citadel, particularly Chora's Den. Just a club right? Well, fights happened there.. You were ambushed on your way there.. Take Feros.. Just a colony right? Well, fights happened there as well. Point is, the levels supported both combat and exploration at the same time. In ME2, these things were pretty much always completely separate, and the combat levels were sealed off from exploring once you completed a mission, which imo sucked. The missions themselves in ME2 might've been more interesting, but the setup of missions in ME1 felt like a part of the world, and that also made them arguably more interesting than ME2 missions because of the additional immersion and engagement. You could visit a peaceful place once and have that same place be a bullet fest moments later. That stuff just doesn't happen in ME2.
Yeah the stable framerate and improved combat was most welcome in ME2. It was necessary actually. Releasing the second game just as buggy and clunky would've been a huge failure. I just felt a little disappointed that it came at the expense of other things, especially because they were so small and added so much to the immersion.
I remember the first time I played ME2, and being completely annoyed by the plague zone on Omega after recruiting Mordin, and finding out I couldn't go back in there again to explore how the place changed after clearing the plague.. I mean, there's a plague where no one is allowed, and you can go in. The plague is cleared and it's safe, suddenly the place is off-limits to you? Wtf is that? And that's where I started feeling the restraints of the game compared to ME1, and having all places feel small. Not only the Citadel, but also Omega, Illium and Tuchanka. Sure, they were big if you take the combat levels into account, but very small on the exploration side, especially since a lot of the levels in ME1 that you couldn't visit again, had you driving around in the Mako. Think about finding Liara, or the Virmire mission etc. It still had an exploration taste to it, even if it was a linear combat mission in essence. It felt big and immersive. That's one of the reasons I liked the Overlord DLC in ME2, because it was slightly closer to ME1 in that regard.. But ME2 felt like a really linear and restraining game in general. And that's where I agree with a lot of people when they say that it feels like a TPS rather than an RPG. It still remains an RPG though despite what people say.. TPS don't put emphasis on dialogue while all the ME games still do.
The first time I played, and I recruited Mordin, and had to land again to go get Archangel, that simply annoyed me. It didn't feel like a continuity, but as a bunch of pieces thrown together that just happen to work as a whole. That's how I felt the whole time playing game actually, while ME1 felt like a continuous game.. Let's just say that ME1 felt like a very delicious food, while ME2 felt like tasting each ingredient of that food separately.
I also had no problem with the elevators in ME1.. Your characters would interact with each other in there and you'd hear galaxy news on the radio and stuff. You only had to actually use each elevator once (except the one to the Normandy if I remember correctly) because if you didn't like them you could quick travel using those car/cab things and you'd get a short loading screen instead. Don't remember their name right now. So I think the elevator hate was blown out of proportion. I also loved the feeling that you could get lost on the Citadel when you started out in ME1. It made it feel big. ME2 nor ME3 have that.
Yes, fighting Cerberus in ME1 was repetitive, and that was less repetitive in ME2. The sidemissions in ME2 are arguably better than ME1, but in ME1 there's a clear distinction between side missions and the core story. In ME2 those lines are pretty blurry. I don't know which approach is better, although the core story of ME1 is better.
You know, I wonder why they didn't just let us pilot one of those drop shuttles in ME2. It seems like a perfect vehicle for exploration. Yeah. It wouldn't be too hard to simply mount some simple guns on the thing.. Would make more sense than finding this full working Hammerhead vehicle on a deserted planet in the middle of a freaking volcanic eruption... I mean, the drop shuttles are known to be durable.. So.. Instead of having place for 14 people, let it have 4 people, mount some guns and a scanner on it if you wish, and boom, you have a full working exploration vehicle. It could've even been another side-mission or whatever.. Upgrading it just like you were upgrading the Normandy. No need for this weird Hammerhead thing. But meh.. The Hammerhead worked too, except in ME3 we get to learn that it was lost.
I loved the Mako. For some reason, when people think of the Mako they only think of the barren planets, but they forget that it also played a key role in the exploration of the level design on core planets and main story of the first game. The main missions on Feros, Virmire, Ilos, Therum all used the Mako and did a brilliant job too. The missions would be a lot more dull without it.
On another note... The storyline in ME2 sucks.. Let's see, in the first game:
- Humans are newbies and the council and races do not trust them
- You were trying to join the council to help the alliance and humans get a higher status within the other races
- You discovered that a spectre has gone rogue
- You tried to convince the council, but they didn't listen
- You needed to get proof to show them
- You got it, and they told you to go after him
- You needed to find where he was
- You needed to find out why he was working with the Geth
- You needed to find out where he got that huge space ship
- Then you found out the Geth nor Saren were the real issue, but a reaper was
- You found out not all the beliefs about Protheans building everything were true
- You tried to warn the council about the reapers, but again they didn't listen
- You needed to break the rules to stop the reaper
- You get ready to keep fighting the reapers that are still to come
That was the ME1 story in a nutshell. Note that I left a lot of the stuff out, like Noveria mission etc.. The story goes a lot deeper than that, but, that's the main story. What's the main ME2 story?
- You died by an attack from some unknown vessel
- Cerberus brought you back because human colonies are disappearing
- You need to find out why
- You find out the collectors are taking them with the same vessel that killed you
- You need to find out why
- You find out the collectors are actually genetically re-engineered protheans by the reapers
- You find out they are creating a human reaper
- Kill the human reaper
- You get ready to keep fighting the reapers that are still to come
We didn't learn anything significant about the reapers in the whole second game, nor did we gain anything significant (maybe the new Normandy
), while that's where the first one left off. We were supposed to be preparing for the next coming invasion, gathering resources and information about the reapers to protect ourselves.
Instead, the council is turning you away again, you barely have contact with the alliance, and you're out there working for an organization with a bad reputation for no apparent reason. And even worse, the illusive man simply tells you no one does anything about it. You should've at least been able to go and talk to them multiple times, finding evidence etc, and then go back to the illusive man when they still don't listen... That would have drastically improved the story.
At the end of the game, you apparently got some info on Harbinger, but, it was never addressed HOW you got that information, nor what information it is. That really ruins the story and immersion compared to the first game.. They should've had some kind of better way to tell how you got it..
How people are arguing that this is somehow the best plot is beyond me. It's definitely the worst of the three. I left the sidestories out. The main story is still collectors vs humans through the whole game, and there was never a plot twist. The first game had many more important stuff going on. When you thought you knew your enemy, it turned out to be someone else. At the beginning you think, oh it's the geth, then you think, oh, it's saren and the geth, and then you think, wait, it's actually Sovereign. The geth and saren are just pawns.
In the 2nd game, the collectors are your enemies the whole time, and yet, they fail to be scary. In the end, you find out it's the reapers again (no surprise there), but, aside from the last boss battle and final dark space scene, there was no other real threat than the collectors. Some issues of your team mates.. But, you gotta admit, if they couldn't die, you probably wouldn't go through all the trouble of making all of them loyal... Well, maybe you would, but, you gotta understand, that they are not really a part of the main story, but side-stories. If they die, they don't impact ME2 itself, but, ME3 instead.. So it makes the story of ME2 itself weaker..
Don't get me wrong. Mass Effect 2 added a lot of details and expanded the knowledge about the whole universe further, but, the main plot itself is the one that simply lacks. The game has so many set-ups for the 3rd game, but at the same time they kind of forgot the core story a little bit. Basically, you spend most of your time with your team mates, solving their problems. Basically "side-issues" compared to the real threat.. And then we have the ignored dark energy stuff of ME3, but whatever.
In ME1 a lot of things had more importance. The story was unpredictable and everything happened for a reason. As an example, your accident with the prothean beacon at the beginning of the game is what gave you the visions, which is triggered your interest to find out what they mean, is what made the council doubtful of you because they saw them as delusional dreams, it was the reason to get cypher to understand the vision better, which allowed you to understand the messages on Ilos left by the protheans etc. The beginning is connected to the end in all ways.
In ME2, you never really use the cypher, and lots of things seem backwards. It's like they didn't really know how to continue the story.. So they thought of improvements to the mechanics instead, and then tacked the story on there later. ME2 story can be completely ignored if you look at it. At the end of ME2, the collectors are destroyed (not to mention ME2 didn't use the cypher at all), so no more relevance to them in the next installment, and whether or not you keep the base, cerberus will come after you in ME3, the reapers are still coming. You could literally skip ME2 and start with ME3, and the only thing you'd actually miss is the new characters, and a few details that could be easily implemented in the codex or in a single mission in ME3. It's the same reason people were saying that the Arrival DLC undermines the whole ME2 game story-wise.. Arrival could've also been used at the end of ME1 and would've worked perfectly.
Case and point, ME2 should have gone beyond "the reapers are coming" since ME1 already did that. Don't get me wrong.. ME2 is still one of my fav games this gen, but, ME1 is higher on my list because of the story.. I'm not trying to hate on ME2, it's just my opinion. I do think it's the worst of the three. ME3 has a superior banter system for example, plus deeper combat and so on.. I'll just list everything below instead of making this a bigger wall of text on how ME2 is inferior to ME3.
Overall...
- ME1 had barren planets which were tedious to explore, shooting mechanics were crap, cover mechanics were crap, all classes played almost the same, had a bunch of time-wasting elevator rides, terrible performance and pop-in issues, tedious inventory and skill tree system, weapons overheating bug, getting stuck in environments, annoying mini-games..
- ME2 had almost no RPG mechanics whatsoever, main story sucked compared to ME1, was mainly a bunch of side quests, planet scanning was a drag (imo worse than mako), barely any exploration because of way too small locations (Citadel, Omega and so on), awful loading times, repetitive mini games, predictable fighting environments, being stuck in environments, apathetic characters (barely interacted with each other), lack of weapons and armor.
- ME3 has inferior journal, less exploration than ME1, confusing ending, glitches like teleporting characters, lip-sync issues, ME1 import issues, too much disc swapping (X360 only), too many shallow side quests, slightly less choice during conversations.
On the flipside..
- ME1 had the best overall story, the most exploration, the deepest RPG elements and conversations, the most immersion.
- ME2 had improved shooting mechanics, better sidequests, better DLC support, better performance, better animations in conversations, better graphics, better action, better and more character support, each class was really unique.
- ME3 had improved cover-based mechanics over ME2, more verticality in gameplay, more cinematic moments, more variety in enemies, more emotional peaks and valleys, slightly deeper RPG elements than ME2 (weapon mods, skill trees etc), bigger Citadel, best interaction between characters, more variety in weapons..
I apologize if I forgot anything on any of the games. But point is....
Reading what you people are saying and comparing it to the pros and cons of all three, it doesn't seem that people hate ME3 because it's actually worse. It's because they disliked the ending that they're nitpicking about everything in ME3, even if it's superior than in the prior ones in many (if not most) ways. The issues of the other two listed above are not somehow irrelevant. You can easily love ME3 for what it is and simply forget about the ending for a second, but most people have chosen otherwise. I don't really get the hate for ME3 specifically while the other ones also had huge flaws, if not bigger flaws... But whatever.
TL;DR
All three games have problems. ME2 is overrated, ME3 is underrated.
What I want from the next ME is the combination of the best things from all three... That would be;
From ME1:
- Sense of scale
- Exploration
- Immersion
- Story
- Dialogue options
From ME2:
- Ending
- Characters
- Side quests
From ME3:
- Emotional impact
- Character class gameplay variety (the multiplayer characters play quite differently, so they should add that to the single player experience)
- Weapon weight system, Power system & Combat mechanics (It's the deepest of the three)
- Banter system
Let's start with ME1 vs ME2.
ME1 had something ME2 didn't have.. Fights could happen anywhere. For example, take the Citadel, particularly Chora's Den. Just a club right? Well, fights happened there.. You were ambushed on your way there.. Take Feros.. Just a colony right? Well, fights happened there as well. Point is, the levels supported both combat and exploration at the same time. In ME2, these things were pretty much always completely separate, and the combat levels were sealed off from exploring once you completed a mission, which imo sucked. The missions themselves in ME2 might've been more interesting, but the setup of missions in ME1 felt like a part of the world, and that also made them arguably more interesting than ME2 missions because of the additional immersion and engagement. You could visit a peaceful place once and have that same place be a bullet fest moments later. That stuff just doesn't happen in ME2.
Yeah the stable framerate and improved combat was most welcome in ME2. It was necessary actually. Releasing the second game just as buggy and clunky would've been a huge failure. I just felt a little disappointed that it came at the expense of other things, especially because they were so small and added so much to the immersion.
I remember the first time I played ME2, and being completely annoyed by the plague zone on Omega after recruiting Mordin, and finding out I couldn't go back in there again to explore how the place changed after clearing the plague.. I mean, there's a plague where no one is allowed, and you can go in. The plague is cleared and it's safe, suddenly the place is off-limits to you? Wtf is that? And that's where I started feeling the restraints of the game compared to ME1, and having all places feel small. Not only the Citadel, but also Omega, Illium and Tuchanka. Sure, they were big if you take the combat levels into account, but very small on the exploration side, especially since a lot of the levels in ME1 that you couldn't visit again, had you driving around in the Mako. Think about finding Liara, or the Virmire mission etc. It still had an exploration taste to it, even if it was a linear combat mission in essence. It felt big and immersive. That's one of the reasons I liked the Overlord DLC in ME2, because it was slightly closer to ME1 in that regard.. But ME2 felt like a really linear and restraining game in general. And that's where I agree with a lot of people when they say that it feels like a TPS rather than an RPG. It still remains an RPG though despite what people say.. TPS don't put emphasis on dialogue while all the ME games still do.
The first time I played, and I recruited Mordin, and had to land again to go get Archangel, that simply annoyed me. It didn't feel like a continuity, but as a bunch of pieces thrown together that just happen to work as a whole. That's how I felt the whole time playing game actually, while ME1 felt like a continuous game.. Let's just say that ME1 felt like a very delicious food, while ME2 felt like tasting each ingredient of that food separately.
I also had no problem with the elevators in ME1.. Your characters would interact with each other in there and you'd hear galaxy news on the radio and stuff. You only had to actually use each elevator once (except the one to the Normandy if I remember correctly) because if you didn't like them you could quick travel using those car/cab things and you'd get a short loading screen instead. Don't remember their name right now. So I think the elevator hate was blown out of proportion. I also loved the feeling that you could get lost on the Citadel when you started out in ME1. It made it feel big. ME2 nor ME3 have that.
Yes, fighting Cerberus in ME1 was repetitive, and that was less repetitive in ME2. The sidemissions in ME2 are arguably better than ME1, but in ME1 there's a clear distinction between side missions and the core story. In ME2 those lines are pretty blurry. I don't know which approach is better, although the core story of ME1 is better.
You know, I wonder why they didn't just let us pilot one of those drop shuttles in ME2. It seems like a perfect vehicle for exploration. Yeah. It wouldn't be too hard to simply mount some simple guns on the thing.. Would make more sense than finding this full working Hammerhead vehicle on a deserted planet in the middle of a freaking volcanic eruption... I mean, the drop shuttles are known to be durable.. So.. Instead of having place for 14 people, let it have 4 people, mount some guns and a scanner on it if you wish, and boom, you have a full working exploration vehicle. It could've even been another side-mission or whatever.. Upgrading it just like you were upgrading the Normandy. No need for this weird Hammerhead thing. But meh.. The Hammerhead worked too, except in ME3 we get to learn that it was lost.
I loved the Mako. For some reason, when people think of the Mako they only think of the barren planets, but they forget that it also played a key role in the exploration of the level design on core planets and main story of the first game. The main missions on Feros, Virmire, Ilos, Therum all used the Mako and did a brilliant job too. The missions would be a lot more dull without it.
On another note... The storyline in ME2 sucks.. Let's see, in the first game:
- Humans are newbies and the council and races do not trust them
- You were trying to join the council to help the alliance and humans get a higher status within the other races
- You discovered that a spectre has gone rogue
- You tried to convince the council, but they didn't listen
- You needed to get proof to show them
- You got it, and they told you to go after him
- You needed to find where he was
- You needed to find out why he was working with the Geth
- You needed to find out where he got that huge space ship
- Then you found out the Geth nor Saren were the real issue, but a reaper was
- You found out not all the beliefs about Protheans building everything were true
- You tried to warn the council about the reapers, but again they didn't listen
- You needed to break the rules to stop the reaper
- You get ready to keep fighting the reapers that are still to come
That was the ME1 story in a nutshell. Note that I left a lot of the stuff out, like Noveria mission etc.. The story goes a lot deeper than that, but, that's the main story. What's the main ME2 story?
- You died by an attack from some unknown vessel
- Cerberus brought you back because human colonies are disappearing
- You need to find out why
- You find out the collectors are taking them with the same vessel that killed you
- You need to find out why
- You find out the collectors are actually genetically re-engineered protheans by the reapers
- You find out they are creating a human reaper
- Kill the human reaper
- You get ready to keep fighting the reapers that are still to come
We didn't learn anything significant about the reapers in the whole second game, nor did we gain anything significant (maybe the new Normandy
), while that's where the first one left off. We were supposed to be preparing for the next coming invasion, gathering resources and information about the reapers to protect ourselves.Instead, the council is turning you away again, you barely have contact with the alliance, and you're out there working for an organization with a bad reputation for no apparent reason. And even worse, the illusive man simply tells you no one does anything about it. You should've at least been able to go and talk to them multiple times, finding evidence etc, and then go back to the illusive man when they still don't listen... That would have drastically improved the story.
At the end of the game, you apparently got some info on Harbinger, but, it was never addressed HOW you got that information, nor what information it is. That really ruins the story and immersion compared to the first game.. They should've had some kind of better way to tell how you got it..
How people are arguing that this is somehow the best plot is beyond me. It's definitely the worst of the three. I left the sidestories out. The main story is still collectors vs humans through the whole game, and there was never a plot twist. The first game had many more important stuff going on. When you thought you knew your enemy, it turned out to be someone else. At the beginning you think, oh it's the geth, then you think, oh, it's saren and the geth, and then you think, wait, it's actually Sovereign. The geth and saren are just pawns.
In the 2nd game, the collectors are your enemies the whole time, and yet, they fail to be scary. In the end, you find out it's the reapers again (no surprise there), but, aside from the last boss battle and final dark space scene, there was no other real threat than the collectors. Some issues of your team mates.. But, you gotta admit, if they couldn't die, you probably wouldn't go through all the trouble of making all of them loyal... Well, maybe you would, but, you gotta understand, that they are not really a part of the main story, but side-stories. If they die, they don't impact ME2 itself, but, ME3 instead.. So it makes the story of ME2 itself weaker..
Don't get me wrong. Mass Effect 2 added a lot of details and expanded the knowledge about the whole universe further, but, the main plot itself is the one that simply lacks. The game has so many set-ups for the 3rd game, but at the same time they kind of forgot the core story a little bit. Basically, you spend most of your time with your team mates, solving their problems. Basically "side-issues" compared to the real threat.. And then we have the ignored dark energy stuff of ME3, but whatever.
In ME1 a lot of things had more importance. The story was unpredictable and everything happened for a reason. As an example, your accident with the prothean beacon at the beginning of the game is what gave you the visions, which is triggered your interest to find out what they mean, is what made the council doubtful of you because they saw them as delusional dreams, it was the reason to get cypher to understand the vision better, which allowed you to understand the messages on Ilos left by the protheans etc. The beginning is connected to the end in all ways.
In ME2, you never really use the cypher, and lots of things seem backwards. It's like they didn't really know how to continue the story.. So they thought of improvements to the mechanics instead, and then tacked the story on there later. ME2 story can be completely ignored if you look at it. At the end of ME2, the collectors are destroyed (not to mention ME2 didn't use the cypher at all), so no more relevance to them in the next installment, and whether or not you keep the base, cerberus will come after you in ME3, the reapers are still coming. You could literally skip ME2 and start with ME3, and the only thing you'd actually miss is the new characters, and a few details that could be easily implemented in the codex or in a single mission in ME3. It's the same reason people were saying that the Arrival DLC undermines the whole ME2 game story-wise.. Arrival could've also been used at the end of ME1 and would've worked perfectly.
Case and point, ME2 should have gone beyond "the reapers are coming" since ME1 already did that. Don't get me wrong.. ME2 is still one of my fav games this gen, but, ME1 is higher on my list because of the story.. I'm not trying to hate on ME2, it's just my opinion. I do think it's the worst of the three. ME3 has a superior banter system for example, plus deeper combat and so on.. I'll just list everything below instead of making this a bigger wall of text on how ME2 is inferior to ME3.
Overall...
- ME1 had barren planets which were tedious to explore, shooting mechanics were crap, cover mechanics were crap, all classes played almost the same, had a bunch of time-wasting elevator rides, terrible performance and pop-in issues, tedious inventory and skill tree system, weapons overheating bug, getting stuck in environments, annoying mini-games..
- ME2 had almost no RPG mechanics whatsoever, main story sucked compared to ME1, was mainly a bunch of side quests, planet scanning was a drag (imo worse than mako), barely any exploration because of way too small locations (Citadel, Omega and so on), awful loading times, repetitive mini games, predictable fighting environments, being stuck in environments, apathetic characters (barely interacted with each other), lack of weapons and armor.
- ME3 has inferior journal, less exploration than ME1, confusing ending, glitches like teleporting characters, lip-sync issues, ME1 import issues, too much disc swapping (X360 only), too many shallow side quests, slightly less choice during conversations.
On the flipside..
- ME1 had the best overall story, the most exploration, the deepest RPG elements and conversations, the most immersion.
- ME2 had improved shooting mechanics, better sidequests, better DLC support, better performance, better animations in conversations, better graphics, better action, better and more character support, each class was really unique.
- ME3 had improved cover-based mechanics over ME2, more verticality in gameplay, more cinematic moments, more variety in enemies, more emotional peaks and valleys, slightly deeper RPG elements than ME2 (weapon mods, skill trees etc), bigger Citadel, best interaction between characters, more variety in weapons..
I apologize if I forgot anything on any of the games. But point is....
Reading what you people are saying and comparing it to the pros and cons of all three, it doesn't seem that people hate ME3 because it's actually worse. It's because they disliked the ending that they're nitpicking about everything in ME3, even if it's superior than in the prior ones in many (if not most) ways. The issues of the other two listed above are not somehow irrelevant. You can easily love ME3 for what it is and simply forget about the ending for a second, but most people have chosen otherwise. I don't really get the hate for ME3 specifically while the other ones also had huge flaws, if not bigger flaws... But whatever.
TL;DR
All three games have problems. ME2 is overrated, ME3 is underrated.
What I want from the next ME is the combination of the best things from all three... That would be;
From ME1:
- Sense of scale
- Exploration
- Immersion
- Story
- Dialogue options
From ME2:
- Ending
- Characters
- Side quests
From ME3:
- Emotional impact
- Character class gameplay variety (the multiplayer characters play quite differently, so they should add that to the single player experience)
- Weapon weight system, Power system & Combat mechanics (It's the deepest of the three)
- Banter system
I really didn't care for him either. He was just a jar head and I felt like the alliance was past that. I also didn't care for Grunt either, as he was just a watered down clueless Wrex.
Matt Attack
Member
Even if 3 had a number of missteps, it was still an incredible game in a brilliant trilogy. Probably my favorite franchise of the generation, so I have really high hopes for the next ME. One thing that's important to me is that I really, really don't want it to be a prequel. I'd still get it and probably love it, but I want to see the future of the galaxy. Hell, they can set it thousands of years in the future for all I care, I'd just like to push the story of the galaxy forward.
Another thing is that I want the tone to be much, much more close to ME1 than ME2 and 3 were. 2 is my favorite of the trilogy, but the atmosphere of 1 is almost unmatched. The slightly campy, bright sci-fi world was tremendously entertaining. Bring back the sense of adventure, don't just throw us into a war straight off the bat. I want strong, varied, often colorful planet design, crazy looking ships and aliens, etc. A part of this would mean making the soundtrack more like the first game as well. I mean, 2 and 3 both had incredible music, but 1's set the mood so perfectly.
Also, give us more difficult choices with far-reaching consequences. As the series went on, I felt like many of the moral dilemmas were far too black/white. I want to see more decisions like Virmire. The choices need to matter also- I'm pretty sure the resolution to the Rachni decision in 3 was disappointing to almost everybody.
Finally, bring the multiplayer back, please. Against all odds it turned out to be brilliant, so I'd love to see it return.
Another thing is that I want the tone to be much, much more close to ME1 than ME2 and 3 were. 2 is my favorite of the trilogy, but the atmosphere of 1 is almost unmatched. The slightly campy, bright sci-fi world was tremendously entertaining. Bring back the sense of adventure, don't just throw us into a war straight off the bat. I want strong, varied, often colorful planet design, crazy looking ships and aliens, etc. A part of this would mean making the soundtrack more like the first game as well. I mean, 2 and 3 both had incredible music, but 1's set the mood so perfectly.
Also, give us more difficult choices with far-reaching consequences. As the series went on, I felt like many of the moral dilemmas were far too black/white. I want to see more decisions like Virmire. The choices need to matter also- I'm pretty sure the resolution to the Rachni decision in 3 was disappointing to almost everybody.
Finally, bring the multiplayer back, please. Against all odds it turned out to be brilliant, so I'd love to see it return.
shinobi602
Member
Honestly I don't think I can go back to this franchise unless they 100% ret con magic space kid out of existence.
Mass Effect 4 could be the greatest game of all time, and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it at all because I would be expecting that little shit to pop in out of nowhere at any moment and ruin the franchise again.
Mass Effect 4 could be the greatest game of all time, and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it at all because I would be expecting that little shit to pop in out of nowhere at any moment and ruin the franchise again.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I didn't mind him that much. Well he wasn't as bad as I had anticipated at least. He did feel like a waste of a character spot that could have gone to alien or someone more interesting though.
My least favorite is EDI. At least once she got a body. Her "romance" with Joker is the low point of the series for me. So painful.
I have to agree that ME2 did have things story wise that pissed me off. First being that I did not care for the involvement with Cerberus. Is there no reason he could have returned to the Alliance for stronger support on the war? Perhaps not only having some old allies ( Ashley and Kaiden) but, still being able to procure new ones?
I'm still lost on the human reaper. Fighting the elusive man at the end of ME2 would have save space for a proper ending in ME3.
I'm still lost on the human reaper. Fighting the elusive man at the end of ME2 would have save space for a proper ending in ME3.
Mustainium
Banned
I can't be the only one here who'd be happy if both these "features" were done away with.
No he wasn't. You just didn't give him a chance to be your bro.
Atraveller
Banned
No he's not, and you let a racist kill him.
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