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The New Board Game Thread (Newcomer Friendly)
- Thread starter AstroLad
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"I'm not sure how they could have boiled "play a card to a matchup" down any further."
Not sure what this is in reference to specifically -- maybe some thread I missed. From my 20m on the forum there seem to be many open questions as to rules that, as always, people are depending on Brian to answer since, as always, no one from FFG is actually going to take responsibility for the messes that their terrible rules create (bad rules or design so clunky and overwrought that it doesn't lend itself to good rules -- ahem Civ, AH -- take your pick). Too busy getting the expansions and expansion expansions ready I'm sure.
(AH is the worst for this, and I like AH, so I'm not saying it means the game is bad or anything, just that I don't know if it's in the cards for me to try to navigate another FFG Rules Adventure.)
Not sure what this is in reference to specifically -- maybe some thread I missed. From my 20m on the forum there seem to be many open questions as to rules that, as always, people are depending on Brian to answer since, as always, no one from FFG is actually going to take responsibility for the messes that their terrible rules create (bad rules or design so clunky and overwrought that it doesn't lend itself to good rules -- ahem Civ, AH -- take your pick). Too busy getting the expansions and expansion expansions ready I'm sure.
(AH is the worst for this, and I like AH, so I'm not saying it means the game is bad or anything, just that I don't know if it's in the cards for me to try to navigate another FFG Rules Adventure.)
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
Cue popcorn.gif.
So yesterday Stronghold Games announces they are going to be doing a reprint of Merchant of Venus. Everyone rejoices, but what is this? A wild FFG Update appears. Here is theresponse from Stronghold. The could be interesting to watch from the sidelines. The only problem is it also could hold up the release of the reprint.
So yesterday Stronghold Games announces they are going to be doing a reprint of Merchant of Venus. Everyone rejoices, but what is this? A wild FFG Update appears. Here is theresponse from Stronghold. The could be interesting to watch from the sidelines. The only problem is it also could hold up the release of the reprint.
also we don't need 40 different types of chits for every fucking game. ffg must get a killer deal on those or something
buy up some nerd license, throw your shitty convoluted game mechanics all over it, add chits, profit
edit: this is hyperbole btw
edit 2: i think every game has mostly "stupid" questions for people who've read the rules, but i also think it's fair to say that ffg has a pattern of having serious issues in this area. i don't purport to speak definitively on bbtm though.
buy up some nerd license, throw your shitty convoluted game mechanics all over it, add chits, profit
edit: this is hyperbole btw
edit 2: i think every game has mostly "stupid" questions for people who've read the rules, but i also think it's fair to say that ffg has a pattern of having serious issues in this area. i don't purport to speak definitively on bbtm though.
Yeah that's a pretty interesting set of issues for sure. For a nichey boardgame company, FFG sure has a busy legal department. Couple months ago they were threatening suit over Viking Lords. Now this. There was one other wacky thing too, maybe the Dune reskin?Neverfade said:
Sold some games to make room for the new.
Adios:
Resident Evil + RE Alliance (good riddance)
Antiquity (no way I was ever going to have time to regularly play, and with the re-release made the decision that much easier)
Architekton & Terra Prime (I hardly knew ye)
Barely survived:
Merchants & Marauders (all the pretty pieces saved it, as well as my fondness for SM's Pirates!)
Catan Card Game + Expansions (small & cheap & decent if a bit broken, not much to be gained in selling)
New stuff I got my eye on:
Blood Bowl Team Manager (see earlier ITT)
Quebec (I'll pay for my own copy but I might be able to snag it from the designer)
Not too much else, so I hope some surprise hits come out of Essen/BGG.
Adios:
Resident Evil + RE Alliance (good riddance)
Antiquity (no way I was ever going to have time to regularly play, and with the re-release made the decision that much easier)
Architekton & Terra Prime (I hardly knew ye)
Barely survived:
Merchants & Marauders (all the pretty pieces saved it, as well as my fondness for SM's Pirates!)
Catan Card Game + Expansions (small & cheap & decent if a bit broken, not much to be gained in selling)
New stuff I got my eye on:
Blood Bowl Team Manager (see earlier ITT)
Quebec (I'll pay for my own copy but I might be able to snag it from the designer)
Not too much else, so I hope some surprise hits come out of Essen/BGG.
I haven't actually read the rules to BB:TM yet, been playing a friends copy but the way he explained it was pretty simple and straightforward. Biggest source of issues is usually what powers a downed player retains. Not too bad on the chits other than their ridiculous double wheel fan counter (they definitely got a bulk order on them as they are the same style as the LOTR:LCG ones, so YAY, I can play 6 player LOTR now 
The football token is necessary and the randomized cheating tokens add a nice bit of craziness. It is just a shame you couldn't use a bag for them. It does have a lot of card stacks but is still manageable.
The Merchants of Venus thing is just insane. I have a near mint copy from my brother-in-law who is such a MoV fanatic he has a shrink wrapped one as well as his play copy! The game could definitely use a revamping, especially those crazy alien 4a, 4b, etc numbering systems. FFG had to go chit-tastic on it though, it was already a counter heavy game and I can see their production department having a collective orgasm.
I tell yah though, all the holy grails are coming back out. Dibs on the new Fortress:America! (which I would LOVE to see done by FFG, imagine that plasticky goodness!!!).
The football token is necessary and the randomized cheating tokens add a nice bit of craziness. It is just a shame you couldn't use a bag for them. It does have a lot of card stacks but is still manageable.The Merchants of Venus thing is just insane. I have a near mint copy from my brother-in-law who is such a MoV fanatic he has a shrink wrapped one as well as his play copy! The game could definitely use a revamping, especially those crazy alien 4a, 4b, etc numbering systems. FFG had to go chit-tastic on it though, it was already a counter heavy game and I can see their production department having a collective orgasm.
I tell yah though, all the holy grails are coming back out. Dibs on the new Fortress:America! (which I would LOVE to see done by FFG, imagine that plasticky goodness!!!).
BattleMonkey
Member
Does MB still have rights to Fortress America?
I never have much trouble with FFG games, and to me the ones that cause trouble for people are often when FFG puts out a "simple" game. Their big games usually have big rulebooks with lot of examples. With their smaller games like their card ones, you get much more vague rules like with Rune Age, Space Hulk, etc. Though often it really is just poor formatting of the books that causes issues.
Will be interesting to see how the MoV situation plays out, though I have a feeling FFG will end up with it. Stronghold made their agreement with the game creator who thinks he had the right to do so. I wouldn't be surprised that Hasbro has claim to the game
I never have much trouble with FFG games, and to me the ones that cause trouble for people are often when FFG puts out a "simple" game. Their big games usually have big rulebooks with lot of examples. With their smaller games like their card ones, you get much more vague rules like with Rune Age, Space Hulk, etc. Though often it really is just poor formatting of the books that causes issues.
Will be interesting to see how the MoV situation plays out, though I have a feeling FFG will end up with it. Stronghold made their agreement with the game creator who thinks he had the right to do so. I wouldn't be surprised that Hasbro has claim to the game
UpperCaseN
Member
So who are we rooting for in the Merchant of Venus publishing mishap?
FFG is the juggernaut of the industry so with them, we're guaranteed a high production reprint with great components. And Astro, just like you mentioned above, it'll probably also have a convoluted rulebook
Stronghold is an up and coming publisher who only dealt with reprints up until recently. Perhaps we should cheer for the underdog but if they did win, would they produce a better version of the game? I guess from our point of view, the player, it should come down to who will do a better job with it. The only Stronghold game I own, or have played or even seen irl to be honest, is Survive Escape from Atlantis. It's very good but that game is much more simple than MoV looks to be, so could Stronghold do it justice the way FFG would?
FFG is the juggernaut of the industry so with them, we're guaranteed a high production reprint with great components. And Astro, just like you mentioned above, it'll probably also have a convoluted rulebook
Stronghold is an up and coming publisher who only dealt with reprints up until recently. Perhaps we should cheer for the underdog but if they did win, would they produce a better version of the game? I guess from our point of view, the player, it should come down to who will do a better job with it. The only Stronghold game I own, or have played or even seen irl to be honest, is Survive Escape from Atlantis. It's very good but that game is much more simple than MoV looks to be, so could Stronghold do it justice the way FFG would?
BattleMonkey
Member
AstroLad said:
The case is likely between the games creator and Hasbro over who has right to sell the games use. I wouldn't be surprised that Hasbro is in the right since they usually acquire full ownership of the license for games they publish.
Except Hasbro never published MoV, and they seem to have been confused internally about the rights in those old licenses in the past.
The best part about this will be watching everyone on BGG suddenly turn into IP lawyers. This makes the GAF game-IP and Apple threads hilarious too.
The best part about this will be watching everyone on BGG suddenly turn into IP lawyers. This makes the GAF game-IP and Apple threads hilarious too.
BattleMonkey
Member
True Avalon hill's entire catalog just fell into their lap, this will probably go way back into Avalon Hills original claim to the game and whether it was theirs to sell in the first place.
BattleMonkey
Member
StoOgE said:
New name, different hair cut yea.
Course have to wonder in which way would the creator have made more money. He was going to get royalties for the FFG release which I would imagine selling much more than Stronghold's release.
BattleMonkey
Member
So Sunday game day was Thunderstone and Talisman. It's a classic, but damn Talisman can take forever to play.
UpperCaseN
Member
yeah, I don't even try to get that game on the table. I like it, but it is not good enough for the time investment. I'm sure there's a way to speed it up though, like enemy trophies only need 5 instead of 7 for a lvl up or somethingBattleMonkey said:
BattleMonkey
Member
Gryphter said:
Large part of the length comes from alot of the randomness in the game, and the dicking around that happens with players screwing one another through so many means. There is sudden death variant but still takes forever to play as it's basically 1 hour per player generally.
UpperCaseN
Member
so 4 players, 4 hours? dayummm, yeah not worth it. Plenty of other games that are much better that can be played in that amount of time or less. I try to limit my games of Talisman to 3 players, and I don't own and am not interested in any of the expansions.BattleMonkey said:
BattleMonkey
Member
How long does a game of Mansions of Madness take? Had it for some time and yet to try it out, might try this Wed game night.
Yea we played 5 and it ended up being exactly 5 hours so it is fairly true what they say about it. I'm glad I never bought into the game, I like it but it's something that I wouldn't take out much.
Gryphter said:
Yea we played 5 and it ended up being exactly 5 hours so it is fairly true what they say about it. I'm glad I never bought into the game, I like it but it's something that I wouldn't take out much.
About.... 2 hours, I guess? Though a lot of that depends on how willing your players are to debate, and how well prepared the GM is. (Hint: Be very well prepared. Don't randomize your picks, know what scenario and which choices you'll make beforehand, and read the clue cards and scenario cards. And for God's sake don't do the Green Eyed Boy scenario unless you've absorbed all of the errata. It's a buggy mess.)BattleMonkey said:
The two hours doesn't include setup time, which will probably take a good half-hour unless, again, you're very well prepared ahead of time.
Game night tonight played:
6P For Sale: I never knew that the German rule is that the losers of auctions take back half their chips, rounded up, not half their money. Made the game quite interesting.
6P King of Tokyo: Finally got to break this out again. Game is awesome -- it really is just a pure dicefest but it's so much fun for what it is. Those dice are heavy and loud though....
5P Glen More: Pretty cerebral brain-burner/AP-inducer that was quite the change of pace. Still rather enjoyable. Not in my T10 euros or anything but I'd definitely play it a few times a year.
6P For Sale: I never knew that the German rule is that the losers of auctions take back half their chips, rounded up, not half their money. Made the game quite interesting.
6P King of Tokyo: Finally got to break this out again. Game is awesome -- it really is just a pure dicefest but it's so much fun for what it is. Those dice are heavy and loud though....
5P Glen More: Pretty cerebral brain-burner/AP-inducer that was quite the change of pace. Still rather enjoyable. Not in my T10 euros or anything but I'd definitely play it a few times a year.
My understanding is that Stronghold is essentially re-printing MoV as is from the 80's, but has contracted one of the more popular PnP artists to use his art assets. Therefore if the game has a new rule book, new art assets, then all they gotta do is change the title and they should be in the clear.
But I suspect the FFG version is pretty different from the AH version. The AH game has some pretty clunky mechanics by modern standards and the art assets don't do much to help sell the theme. I can easily see where they would tweak it to appeal to their audience a bit more. You just know the movement mechanic and route selection methods are crying out for colored dice or cards instead of just boring old d6's
My wife HATES this game with a passion but that is just because she can't stand to look at it long enough to realize it is a SHOPPING GAME about scoring good deals on merchandise! If they changed the races to department stores and the goods from oddities like "Finest Dust" to "Louis Vitton Purses" it would be her favorite game.
But I suspect the FFG version is pretty different from the AH version. The AH game has some pretty clunky mechanics by modern standards and the art assets don't do much to help sell the theme. I can easily see where they would tweak it to appeal to their audience a bit more. You just know the movement mechanic and route selection methods are crying out for colored dice or cards instead of just boring old d6's
My wife HATES this game with a passion but that is just because she can't stand to look at it long enough to realize it is a SHOPPING GAME about scoring good deals on merchandise! If they changed the races to department stores and the goods from oddities like "Finest Dust" to "Louis Vitton Purses" it would be her favorite game.
BattleMonkey
Member
It's what keeps me from buying any of the Command & Colors series of games. Even with the upcoming Japanese Samurai based version in the works.... nuh uh, fuck stickers.
Got a copy of Panic Station. Can't wait till it arrives in a few days.
All the other new Essen releases really don't have me excited yet but who knows.
And I actually wouldn't mind having only a few must-buys since there's also a few great reprints coming soon (Friedrich, Wallenstein, Innovation IELLO edition).
I did notice as well that I'm totally not grabbing towards the multitude of deck building games. I've played and certainly enjoyed Dominion but none of the other releases have really spoken to me yet from what I've seen of them. Though wouldn't mind trying a few out to get better bearings in the genre. A Few Acres of Snow seemed really interesting till it turned out to suffer from design problems and I feel I already made a mistake on last years London that (imo) also suffers heavily from design faults. Maybe I'm just not a Martin Wallace gamer.
All the other new Essen releases really don't have me excited yet but who knows.
And I actually wouldn't mind having only a few must-buys since there's also a few great reprints coming soon (Friedrich, Wallenstein, Innovation IELLO edition).
I did notice as well that I'm totally not grabbing towards the multitude of deck building games. I've played and certainly enjoyed Dominion but none of the other releases have really spoken to me yet from what I've seen of them. Though wouldn't mind trying a few out to get better bearings in the genre. A Few Acres of Snow seemed really interesting till it turned out to suffer from design problems and I feel I already made a mistake on last years London that (imo) also suffers heavily from design faults. Maybe I'm just not a Martin Wallace gamer.
super depends on the players in my experience. The first I played it I was mildly prepared and we had a full group that did the first scenario in about 2 hours.BattleMonkey said:
The second time I played it (with an entirely different group) I knew exactly what I was doing as the villain and knew how to set up quickly, but after playing for 3 hours everyone was tired and we never even finished.
The difference wasn't any kind of misunderstanding of the rules or debates (which actually happened more in the first, faster game) but was entirely because the players in game 2 thought for a long time about their actions.
BattleMonkey
Member
Ok Mansions of Madness plays quick, it just has a really long set up time, at least for a first timer where it was a bit vague at first what cards did what, but it clicks and would be much faster to set up for future games. It is a game though that probably should be set up before players show up to make it all quick and easy.
BattleMonkey said:
Huh say whaaaa? Is this an official version with Richard at the helm or some fan variant? I like the C&C system because in the ancients version at least it does capture a lot of the flavor of battle without being overwhelming in choices (though plenty would say the cards are too limiting). I think a samurai version could be pretty cool and there are a lot of battles to model.
BattleMonkey
Member
jason10mm said:
Borg and his buddy mentioned work on a Samurai themed c&c when I was hanging with them at hurricon a few weeks ago and that it was being tested. Assume we might be seeing it in the future.
News about the next 7 Wonders expansion have been announced!
Sounds awesome. In this particular card when you play it during the end of that particular AGE and only that AGE, instead of you fighting your neighbors during Military Conflict, your neighbors attack each other. (I.e. your left and your right neighbors fight each other for that round)
Sounds awesome. In this particular card when you play it during the end of that particular AGE and only that AGE, instead of you fighting your neighbors during Military Conflict, your neighbors attack each other. (I.e. your left and your right neighbors fight each other for that round)
UpperCaseN
Member
Hero said:
I know what 7 Wonders expansion I'm interested in:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/110308/7-wonders-catan-island
says it'll hit the BGG store in November
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
I got to play Urban Sprawl last night and it was awesome. Really nice mix of Euro style mechanics with enough player interaction to keep you invested in the game the entire time. We played with three and the reaction from my friend who played with four last Saturday was that's the way to play. He said with four the down time is just too much, sometimes upwards of 25 minutes before he got to take another turn. My biggest complaint is the after turn bookkeeping. After every turn you have to reseed the empty spaces with cards and most of the cards have some sort of player payout or "election". We tried to speed it up as fast as possible but there is only so much you can do, it's just a time consuming process. The entire game with two new players, and one of us hadn't read the rules, took about three hours which is not bad for a game this big.
Gary Whitta
Member
For Halloween we are playing Last Night on Earth LIVE on Justin.tv
http://www.justin.tv/gwhitta#/w/1990978096
http://www.justin.tv/gwhitta#/w/1990978096
Gary Whitta
Member
Last Night on Earth is pretty fun, as survivors we are getting wiped out by the zombies though.
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