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The New Board Game Thread (Newcomer Friendly)
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platypotamus
Member
I wanted to try that same variant myself, but my version was just going to keep the two card hand the whole game, rather than just the two rounds. Haven't actually tried it yet though.
I do like the game quite a bit though.
So, I'm mulling the idea of creating an economic engine game with my future brother in law.
Our basic idea is we want to kill these economic engine games that everyone plays that are in no way representative of how the economy works and just create a series of insane games where player interaction drives 90% of the game. We don't want a game to be solvable, but we don't want dice rolls to be the random factor either. This was all basically precipiated by playing Master of Economy and both of us getting mad at how close it comes to working well, and then falling flat on its face in certain respects.
Our idea right now is a game where 3 players are developing countries, and 3 players are corporations who need their natural resources to produce goods. We are kind of working loosely off of some mechanics from a few Wallace games (Automobile, Brass) but ultimitely want to kind of leave it to the players to set prices for goods, with the tension being that the three developing nations are trying to score the best nation at the end of the game, while the three corporations are trying to make the most money, and the conflict is going to be between the nations needing money and jobs and the companies trying to keep costs as low as possible.
We've got some kind of loose notes that we worked through and played through a couple of scenarios.. and I'm going to try and develop into some workable mechanics.
Anyway, nothing will ever probably come of this at all, but I really like the idea of a game wehre the economy functions purely between the players with no hard and fast rules that can't be broken, but certain penalties built in for underhanded dealings.
Our basic idea is we want to kill these economic engine games that everyone plays that are in no way representative of how the economy works and just create a series of insane games where player interaction drives 90% of the game. We don't want a game to be solvable, but we don't want dice rolls to be the random factor either. This was all basically precipiated by playing Master of Economy and both of us getting mad at how close it comes to working well, and then falling flat on its face in certain respects.
Our idea right now is a game where 3 players are developing countries, and 3 players are corporations who need their natural resources to produce goods. We are kind of working loosely off of some mechanics from a few Wallace games (Automobile, Brass) but ultimitely want to kind of leave it to the players to set prices for goods, with the tension being that the three developing nations are trying to score the best nation at the end of the game, while the three corporations are trying to make the most money, and the conflict is going to be between the nations needing money and jobs and the companies trying to keep costs as low as possible.
We've got some kind of loose notes that we worked through and played through a couple of scenarios.. and I'm going to try and develop into some workable mechanics.
Anyway, nothing will ever probably come of this at all, but I really like the idea of a game wehre the economy functions purely between the players with no hard and fast rules that can't be broken, but certain penalties built in for underhanded dealings.
I think this is a perfect solution personally, but the owner of the game thought it would make the game too long and add too many decisions into the process and slow it down. Given the game time, I wasn't overly concerned with that.
I've never played it so I'm not sure. I like the idea of a lot of aggressive interaction and I like the idea of secret mission cards to get victory points.
I do know the new FFG version has a bunch of variants added to the base game.
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
Don't know if anybody else is interested, but BGG just updated their store with new promos. I ended up buying the Catan Island Wonder for 7 Wonders. BGG's store now is more upfront with costs. It used to be they charged a penny for the promo then $5 to ship. Now it's $5 for the promo (some are $7.50) and free shipping. Not much difference but a lot of people where a little upset with the original method of doing things.
Game night tonight:
7 Wonders x2
Airlines Europe (6P variant)
Definitely going to finally bust out Leaders next week since everyone was really into 7 Wonders tonight. Also have the Catan expansion coming in for that to throw in.
Airlines Europe was fun. Still getting a grasp of basic strategy but it scratches that TtR itch while being a good deal meatier from a strategic pov.
Buuuut I also still want to make room for Ghost Stories, RoboRally, and Galaxy Trucker at the next game night. Hmmm think I need to extend it from 6-12 instead of 6-9.
7 Wonders x2
Airlines Europe (6P variant)
Definitely going to finally bust out Leaders next week since everyone was really into 7 Wonders tonight. Also have the Catan expansion coming in for that to throw in.
Airlines Europe was fun. Still getting a grasp of basic strategy but it scratches that TtR itch while being a good deal meatier from a strategic pov.
Buuuut I also still want to make room for Ghost Stories, RoboRally, and Galaxy Trucker at the next game night. Hmmm think I need to extend it from 6-12 instead of 6-9.
UpperCaseN
Member
The new BGG server names are awesome. They had a contest where members could name them and the winners are HAL, Skynet, and GLaDOS
You should check out a game called Ys (published by Rio Grande several years back). It has a really cool player-induced market value metagame in it where each player tries to subversively influence the value of the game's four basic resources to give more victory points to the player who had the most of a given resource.
TwiztidElf
Member
Shadow Hunters got a reprint. Huzzah!
My copy arrived yesterday. I can't wait to play it. Someone else in my gaming group has Resistance (I do plan to get it eventually though), so I thought I'd get a different deduction game first.
Also, was at my parents house and found my old copy of 'Lose Your Shirt'. Was stoked to find it. Pulled it out at the last 'get together' and it was a huge hit.
My copy arrived yesterday. I can't wait to play it. Someone else in my gaming group has Resistance (I do plan to get it eventually though), so I thought I'd get a different deduction game first.
Also, was at my parents house and found my old copy of 'Lose Your Shirt'. Was stoked to find it. Pulled it out at the last 'get together' and it was a huge hit.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
My game collection continues to spiral out of control. What started in November with A Game of Thrones quickly moved on to Pandemic (+ expansion), AGOT LCG, Arkham Horror (+2 expansions), Blood Bowl TM, Campaign Manager 2008, and now for my birthday Dominion and War of The Ring.
I've managed to resist, because I'm broke. Didn't stop me from picking up two Small Wonder expansions this weekend, though. Because, see, they aren't NEW games, so they don't count. Right?
platypotamus
Member
I love that rule. It totally works on my wife
Hot deal on thunderstone! (credit goes to BGG)
http://shop.sci-fi-city.com/product_info.php?cPath=18_340&products_id=6244
This bundle includes:
Thunderstone
Thunderstone Doomgate Legion
Thunderstone Thornwood Siege
Thunderstone Heart of Doom
$59.99
http://shop.sci-fi-city.com/product_info.php?cPath=18_340&products_id=6244
This bundle includes:
Thunderstone
Thunderstone Doomgate Legion
Thunderstone Thornwood Siege
Thunderstone Heart of Doom
$59.99
TheFightingFish
Member
I've played just a bit of it. It's a rather solid game, but the overall price is hard to get around. I'm mad cheap so I actually just picked up the print and play version and stuck the cards into sleeves with old poker sets that I had sitting around. Probably cost me like $45 total, but for way less quality versus the official cards.
If you like fighting games the aesthetics are pretty enjoyable, translating fighting game concepts like priority, knockdowns, throws and combos to card form is pretty interesting. I think much of the enjoyment (again, I've only played a few games, so take with a bit of salt) would be from using the full set to try out different characters versus one another or playing in a tournament setting with multiple player switching opponents around. So I can see it getting stale if you just bought one of the two character sets and played the game with just that.
I like that it plays pretty fast so that it really lends itself to 3/5 and other longer sets of games. It's guess heavy, so a smart player can always lose a round, but in a long set making good reads and nailing the card evaluations will pay off.
One of the only big name board games I don't have on the iPad is on sale at the moment (only a dollar off, but still). Any yays or nays for Tigris & Euphrates? I've loved pretty much every board game I've picked up so far, but the screens on this one aren't really grabbing me.
UpperCaseN
Member
How do you guys handle learning rules? I'm the type who reads the rulebook and tries to get a solo or 2 player game in with my fiance before trying to teach the group, just to help it go smoother. I know some people will play it for the 1st time with the group and some people will even read the rulebook for the 1st time when sitting down for the 1st game. Just curious
BattleMonkey
Member
So whose played Wizwar? Outside of it being a reprint of an old game, don't really know much and don't like to auto buy these games (Dungeonquest reprint... yea it's still a shit game). The art is hideous for Wizwar.
flashburn2012
Member
Pretty much any new game I buy I'll read through the book a bit (mostly skimming), and then play a 2 player game solo a few rounds/turns, just to get the hang of it, trying to hit as many different actions/situations as possible. That's usually good enough for me to remember, when it comes time to play it with others.
I can't fathom bring a game to the table without playing it at least once by myself. I usually play new games four or five times on my own before teaching them to my group.
-Read rules
-Set up game just to get a feel
-Go to BGG to see if there's a FAQ and to browse the popular topics in the rules forum for the game
-Play first game
-Ask questions on BGG about open issues
I really like to be 90% of the way there before subjecting anyone to a new game. I actually quite enjoy working through rules issues and I absolutely hate a game getting bogged down by rules confusion. I tend to take a bit longer to teach because I like to do it semi-comprehensively and also give pointers so that the people I'm teaching can hopefully skip past the beginner level.
I rarely actually solo a full game though. Only done this for Arkham I think. I do believe it's helpful but it's just so time-consuming.
BattleMonkey
Member
Hate reading and trying to learn the rules while playing, and thankfully my regular group is against it too. We had one girl who played with us and got on our nerves as "she can't grasp rules when you tell me, let's just play".
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
I will read the rules and go over them in my mind. I will even go over how I would teach the game, usually in the shower. I won't being a game to the table unless I'm comfortable enough with the rules to be able to teach. I will rarely run a solo game. I usually will only do a solo run if there is a proper solo variant or it's a co-op game. Otherwise it's rules, then play.
I find it really tough to play with people like this -- I think teaching rules throughout a long game really hurts the experience (unless there's a really good reason to do so) -- thankfully it rarely comes up. I just think OK yeah the rules might not be the most fun part but if we can get them all out of the way properly before playing the game will be.
Haven't heard anyone else mention it, but I'll have a play under my best Thursday. And the art fits the silly theme very well. It's pretty much Bomberman with wizard spells.
superrobot
Member
Sleeve those cards now!
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
Dammit, I knew I was forgetting something.
BattleMonkey
Member
I dunno, art seems like some bad deviant art reject. But Bomberman comparison makes me interested now.
UpperCaseN
Member
sounds like we're all similar when it comes to learning/teaching games. I played 1 game where the person read the rulebook out to us and everything went in 1 ear and out the other. Makes me wonder if people space out when I'm going over the rules myself; I'm not reading from the book but depending on the game it can still be a wall of text
My girlfriend is the fucking worst. Getting her to play something new (which is often considering my buying habits) is like pulling teeth. She doesn't want to listen to ANY rules. I'm like...how the fuck are you going to PLAY if you don't know any rules? So explaining a game is me and several other people checking looking at various player boards and aids while she stares a hole in my head.
I've had issues where nobody else seems to be willing to read the rules, so I end up having to kind of do it by myself (read the rules, play the game by myself, etc.). The common response is: "Oh, well, I learn best by observing." Well, of course, that's the easiest way to learn rules!
Somebody has to a) either know the game and be willing to explain it in their own words or b) everybody has to be willing to sit through at least a cursory reading of the rules.
"Let's just play" almost always leads to disaster.
narcosis219
Member
Yeah, usually when I teach a game I do it assuming everyone has ADHD. Attention spans of a lot of people are non-existant especially when they have to pay attention to things that are remotely complex. See college lecture hall.
Knowing the rules before hand for a new game is definitely a must.
I find a quick 1 minute overview (Get X to build Y so you can get victory points) followed by an example 3-4 turns then play a practice game and explain rules as they come up. This way, people don't have to pretend they're attending a lecture (we all know how lectures turn out) and you have people interacting, which is the best way to learn. Make sure you make it clear that it is a practice game before someone gets salty about losing because they didn't know the special rules.
Knowing the rules before hand for a new game is definitely a must.
I find a quick 1 minute overview (Get X to build Y so you can get victory points) followed by an example 3-4 turns then play a practice game and explain rules as they come up. This way, people don't have to pretend they're attending a lecture (we all know how lectures turn out) and you have people interacting, which is the best way to learn. Make sure you make it clear that it is a practice game before someone gets salty about losing because they didn't know the special rules.
platypotamus
Member
I kinda messed up that bit teaching London last night. I didn't remind people that cards in hand at end of game give you extra poverty tokens, and one of the players ended the game with 8 in hand. He wouldn't have won, but it put him dead last.
I really freaking like that game, btw.
My fiance has been barred from game nights at the bar. She will get up in the middle of rules explenation to go to the salad bar or to get a beer, and will often tell me she was never paying attention.
She then proceeds to play the game horribly and breaking rules constantly, but gets really upset when she is called out for breaking rules and exclaiming "Well, I didn't know that!".. to which I reply "I explained it, you weren't here".. that usually gets an "I know, I don't really care about this game anyway".
This is still preferable to my two worst situations.
1) The guy who has never played a game before, brings it to the table and then tries to figure out how to play it in front of you.
2) The guy who either is unwilling or unable to explain rules and leaves half of them out.
FWIW, I always do rule reminders as games go on, especially if I see someone potentially missing the strategy completely or going down a path that will lead to ruin. I never say "YOU ARE AN IDIOT" but I'll do things like remind the table, especially of game end and special scoring conditions.
I can't remember if I mentioned this rules nightmare but a buddy of mine brought a fella over one night about a month ago when we were playing some games. My girlfriend loves Ticket to Ride, so TtR it was. This asshole had to be explained what his options were EVERY. SINGLE. TURN. For the whole game. Really. Take two cards. Lay some trains with matching color cards. Draw some routes. That's fucking it. I was livid on the inside. Fuck that guy.
Edit: And before anyone defends him, he's played D&D before. No fucking excuses. I hope his balls rot off. Someone that stupid shouldn't procreate.
Edit: And before anyone defends him, he's played D&D before. No fucking excuses. I hope his balls rot off. Someone that stupid shouldn't procreate.
I'm lucky because most of my guys are RPG gamers who cut their teeth on one of the most complex systems around, so they're pretty good with complex rules. Usually one of us has either played or at least read the rules before we played. We cover the primary stuff and leave exceptions until we run into one of them. We're very used to having to dig up rules in the middle of play (thank you, Hero System) so no one minds when it happens. Also, we have no idiots playing.
I regular play TtR with ten year olds, none of which have any problem grasping the rules. That guy's an idiot.
platypotamus
Member
I do sometimes hate teaching rules though. I get flashbacks to when I was working as a teacher, which is the worst job ever.
UpperCaseN
Member
I lol'ed at the balls part. Also wow, Ticket to Ride is the epitome of easy to teach, easy to play. Playing with this guy must have been a nightmare. At least it wasn't co-op like Pandemic or something.
BattleMonkey
Member
Ticket to Ride is one of the only games in my collection I can get non gamers to play.
Sorry, I was on an 18 day vacation and just got back...but usually I'm pretty good at taking my turns, right?
So, how does GAF feel about this:
I usually explain the basic principles of the game up front and elaborate as we go and things come up. I thought it was accepted fact that you can't learn to play a game without actually going through a few rounds.
I'm open to suggestions if there is a better way.
I had a similar experience teaching someone dominion. It was weird because I've even had non-gamers "get it" by the 4th round at the latest. Meanwhile, this dude who like Arkham Fucking Horror can't grasp that he has to discard all of his cards at the end of every turn.
superrobot
Member
TTR pocket on IOS is async multiplayer on game centre as of today.
It largely depends who I am playing with. My general strategy is as such:
1) Explain overall point/theme of the game. What are you trying to do at the end of the day.. and not "get the most VP". Like for Power Grid I explain the logic flow
You want to power the most cities at the end of the game.
To power the most cities you need to build a network to as many cities as possible, you need to have power plants with sufficient output to power those cities, and you need to have fuel to fire up those power plants.
You get paid out at the end of every round based on the number of cities that you power that turn. I then typically explain the limiting factor (plants you actually have fuel for vs number of cities).
Once I've gone over the high level stuff so people have a conceptual idea of how to grasp the game, I go into a rules overview "this is how you connect cities, here is how fuel is bought, power plants are bid on" Once I've done a quick rules overview I go into turn order and when different things happen, player order and give little hints here and there on different strategies that typically do well.
If there are any fiddly exceptions, I get to that after going through the general rules of the game. So something like the coal connection rule vs the iron no connection rule in Brass gets left till the end.
I'll use examples on the board of how to do certain things that are hard to grasp without being explained.
I'll also usually tell people about how critical fiddly stuff is. So in Power Grid I'll say "the highest numbered plant goes on the bottom of the plant draw pile.. this means that the best plants will come out during phase 3, and it means phase 3 will happen quicker. You don't need to worry about doing this, I'll handle it.. just know it's a thing that happens".
I probably over explain games.. I can take 15-20 minutes to do so at times, but most people I play with are hyper competitive and want to know everything.
All that said, if I'm playing with non-gamer friends, high level and skip the nitty gritty until it matters because they don't really care if they lose that much.. but then again, I'm normally playing Carc, Catan, Stone Age or TTR in that situation.
Teaching a game can make or break it. Some people I know can read an instruction manual and know the technicalities of all the rules and interactions but absolutely fail to explain it to the rest of the group. Pretty much if your first sentence doesn't explain what the goal or object of the game is then you're already doing pretty poorly.
You think that's bad? I had a friend take a 20 minute turn in Settlers of Catan.
You think that's bad? I had a friend take a 20 minute turn in Settlers of Catan.
UpperCaseN
Member
I like to start off with a short version of the story of the game to set the mood; I'll often embellish it as well. I feel like I can wrangle in all the individual minds and once I have everyone's full attention, I finish and move onto the objective and rules.
Just like when I teach The Resistance, I always start off with my spiel about it's a dystopian future and we're overthrowing the oppressive govt, we're real close but there's spies among us, etc.
Just picked up Fluxx and Lost Cities today. Can't wait to open them up after the kids go to bed. Have Seven Dragons, Zombie Dice and Forbidden Island in the mail as we speak.
Surely this will liven up game night a bit for the next few months. Been playing Harry Potter TCG, BaKong and and Fireball Island way too much lately.
I am Excite!
Surely this will liven up game night a bit for the next few months. Been playing Harry Potter TCG, BaKong and and Fireball Island way too much lately.
I am Excite!
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