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[BomberMouse]

IMO there's absolutely nothing wrong with big companies doing a kickstater campaign. It's just another (better/safer) way to fund a project, even for projects that are going to be profitable in the long run. Why not just get the money earlier in exchange of some more incentives?

 

[sneaky77]

Does it really make a difference? I don't think that a smallish to medium company doing a kickstarter is going to prevent a small to tiny company from doing one. In fact, didn't recent numbers show that the big companies (like Double Fine) are just bring more money into the system?

yeah I mean is a way to get a project greenlit, plus also kinda making a pre-order and getting some extra stuff possibly. I understand the point of bigger companies such as Epic or whatever trying to get funding that way, but I don't see it much different than putting the pre-order at a gamestop.
There may be something else I am not aware of, as I truly don't know what game board comapnies may be considered big or whatelse so feel free to ignore it.

 

[BattleMonkey]

yeah I mean is a way to get a project greenlit, plus also kinda making a pre-order and getting some extra stuff possibly. I understand the point of bigger companies such as Epic or whatever trying to get funding that way, but I don't see it much different than putting the pre-order at a gamestop.
There may be something else I am not aware of, as I truly don't know what game board comapnies may be considered big or whatelse so feel free to ignore it.

Most board game companies are small. Very few really would be considered "big".

 

[Neverfade]

It's a slippery slope. They get your money and then can do whatever the fuck they want. Yeah, there's KS rules, but they mean jack shit in the grand scheme of it all. Laws don't stop people from committing crimes every day. The bubble is going to pop when some asshole takes the money and runs.

I'm very selective of my KS dealings. I don't like tying my money up without a product. Same reason I don't preorder at Gamestop. They're not getting an interest free loan from me, fuck them. Amazon system is best system.

 

[AstroLad]

It's a fine line. There are definitely people that take advantage of the community on BGG, and you could say the same of most rabid fanbases.

Speaking of which, surprised Mayday hasn't done a Kickstarter yet. Oh wait nm.

 

[fenners]

Speaking of which, surprised Mayday hasn't done a Kickstarter yet. Oh wait nm.

Zing!

I've done near zero gaming lately thanks to life getting in the way bar a game of Lords of Waterdeep & some random Summoner Wars at work. Love that game.

Looking forward to "Give 2 Game" here in Austin this weekend. 80/100 people gaming for a day for charity. Planning to get a game of Eclipse in at least.

 

[sneaky77]

It's a fine line. There are definitely people that take advantage of the community on BGG, and you could say the same of most rabid fanbases.

Speaking of which, surprised Mayday hasn't done a Kickstarter yet. Oh wait nm.

I did kickstar a mayday product, before I read the big story on bgg about them, I gotta say they delivered it on time and as advertised

anyway, anyone want to beat me at dominion?

 

[besada]

I did kickstar a mayday product, before I read the big story on bgg about them, I gotta say they delivered it on time and as advertised

anyway, anyone want to beat me at dominion?

Isotropic or BGA?

 

[sneaky77]

Isotropic or BGA?

I'm down for either isotropic seems to be a bit cleaner interface but whicver works

edit:maybe tomorrow lol

 

[Flynn]

Speaking of Kickstarter I saw that Steve Jackson just put up a Kickstarter for a really nice reprint of Ogre. I guess most people would consider Jackson one of the more successful board game publishers (with all that Munchkin money) but I imaging a big box Ogre is a pretty risky proposition -- so I'm glad companies have a way to gauge support (and to me pre-orders are a TRUE gauge of support -- all the petitions in the world don't mean anything until people put their money where their mouths are).

 

[Vanillalite]

I mentioned it a page or two ago, actually I watched a video of it recently and realized it was a lot more obnoxious than I remembered it being. I had a lot of fun with it but that voice thing would make it hard to play today.

I totally understand that point. I know if I went back and played it now I'd be like WTF I liked this?

My memory of playing that game is great though! I use to always bug the shit out of my neighbor to play it. LOL

 

[BattleMonkey]

Speaking of Kickstarter I saw that Steve Jackson just put up a Kickstarter for a really nice reprint of Ogre. I guess most people would consider Jackson one of the more successful board game publishers (with all that Munchkin money) but I imaging a big box Ogre is a pretty risky proposition -- so I'm glad companies have a way to gauge support (and to me pre-orders are a TRUE gauge of support -- all the petitions in the world don't mean anything until people put their money where their mouths are).

Yea Ogre is a niche product.

 

[Flynn]

Yea Ogre is a niche product.

Well it certainly isn't The Hunger Games.

 

[AstroLad]

i don't even know what ogre is

i think what stooge was getting at though was more shady kickstarter promotions where you think you're buying from company X but really company Y is behind the whole thing, etc. i'm sure there are scumbags all over kickstarter right now or planning their kickstarter ripoffs. lessons will be learned and we'll move on. kickstarter to me is actually way more exciting for video games because of DFA and WL2, which would have never happened (especially the latter) but for kickstarter. dsfdf but i've never had that same experience for board games since almost all the publishers and games are niche so there's nothing i'm really pining for quite like the quality of board games currently whereas for video games there is tons that i'm pining for

 

[cozo]

anyone got any experience with earth reborn? not even sure I can get it in the UK to be honest

 

[Flynn]

i don't even know what ogre is

i think what stooge was getting at though was more shady kickstarter promotions where you think you're buying from company X but really company Y is behind the whole thing, etc. i'm sure there are scumbags all over kickstarter right now or planning their kickstarter ripoffs. lessons will be learned and we'll move on. kickstarter to me is actually way more exciting for video games because of DFA and WL2, which would have never happened (especially the latter) but for kickstarter. dsfdf but i've never had that same experience for board games since almost all the publishers and games are niche so there's nothing i'm really pining for quite like the quality of board games currently whereas for video games there is tons that i'm pining for

I hadn't heard about shell games like the one you mentioned. That does seem a little shady. For me there are two determiners for a Kickstarter. Is it something I want? Is it from somebody I trust?

One of the factors can outweigh the second. An unproven indie can get my money if they're making something I really believe in. And somebody who I trust implicitly (like Double Fine) will get my money just because I know they'll make something cool.

I think you're right around board games. There's plenty of games that I like already getting made so I only Kickstart stuff I really want (like Glory to Rome with better art).

I wonder if some people on BGG are feeling burnt because they're getting caught up in the fever and buying everything.

 

[cozo]

... (like Glory to Rome with better art).

speaking of which, what's the latest on that? and is it going on general release once they manage to get it printed? and is the game any good anyway?

 

[Flynn]

speaking of which, what's the latest on that? and is it going on general release once they manage to get it printed? and is the game any good anyway?

There was a huge period of quiet, which was disconcerting. But there have been updates about travel to China for the printing process, etc. So it looks like things are going alright -- and a lesson too about keeping customer expectations in check from the beginning and the importance of communication.

The game itself is quite good -- co-designed by Carl Chudyk of Innovation fame, so if you like that game's hidden, crazy depth you will dig Glory to Rome too. If there was ever a game where I thought "I dig this game, but fuck it is ugly," during the first play it would have to be this one.

I am assuming that all the backer rewards mean that they intend a retail shipment of the game, but I can't say for sure.

 

[StoOgE]

I wonder if some people on BGG are feeling burnt because they're getting caught up in the fever and buying everything.

I don't want to say too much publicly. but there are a lot of games that seem more about "Oh man, if I give them 150 dollars I get a customized board with my name on it!!!"

These are usually limited reward levels, but as soon as they fill up the "limited" level another one opens up for 1 dollar more.

Expansions are thrown together without any playtesting or even mockups as stretch goals. "Oh man, we just crossed 50K, if we make 100K I'll give everyone a new co-op variant expansion that I just made up".

Most of these are all being done by the same company, who is paying the same reviewers to put out paid previews. Except no one knows it's the same company taking payment because they are a silent partner and they let it look like a small indie studio is doing the publishing.

 

[mannerbot]

speaking of which, what's the latest on that? and is it going on general release once they manage to get it printed? and is the game any good anyway?

Expected in May according to CSI.

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

The game itself is quite good -- co-designed by Carl Chudyk of Innovation fame, so if you like that game's hidden, crazy depth you will dig Glory to Rome too. If there was ever a game where I thought "I dig this game, but fuck it is ugly," during the first play it would have to be this one.

I personally like it better than Innovation.

I don't want to say too much publicly. but there are a lot of games that seem more about "Oh man, if I give them 150 dollars I get a customized board with my name on it!!!"

These are usually limited reward levels, but as soon as they fill up the "limited" level another one opens up for 1 dollar more.

Expansions are thrown together without any playtesting or even mockups as stretch goals. "Oh man, we just crossed 50K, if we make 100K I'll give everyone a new co-op variant expansion that I just made up".

Most of these are all being done by the same company, who is paying the same reviewers to put out paid previews. Except no one knows it's the same company taking payment because they are a silent partner and they let it look like a small indie studio is doing the publishing.

I want to say Mayday because that guy is the Snidely Whiplash of the boardgaming world, but it can't be that obvious.

 

[Flynn]

Most of these are all being done by the same company, who is paying the same reviewers to put out paid previews. Except no one knows it's the same company taking payment because they are a silent partner and they let it look like a small indie studio is doing the publishing.

That is pretty egregious if true.

The stuff about expansions, playtesting, etc. I would chalk up to caveat emptor, but paid reviews and masquerading as an indie is uncool. This seems like it could be a big-ish story when it finally breaks.

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

The stuff about expansions, playtesting, etc. I would chalk up to caveat emptor, but paid reviews and masquerading as an indie is uncool. This seems like it could be a big-ish story when it finally breaks.

It's a good one. I know the Dice Tower have been doing a lot of paid "previews" recently, but at least those are stated as such. Are there others that are doing paid reviews without saying they are?

 

[BattleMonkey]

I don't want to say too much publicly. but there are a lot of games that seem more about "Oh man, if I give them 150 dollars I get a customized board with my name on it!!!"

These are usually limited reward levels, but as soon as they fill up the "limited" level another one opens up for 1 dollar more.

Expansions are thrown together without any playtesting or even mockups as stretch goals. "Oh man, we just crossed 50K, if we make 100K I'll give everyone a new co-op variant expansion that I just made up".

Most of these are all being done by the same company, who is paying the same reviewers to put out paid previews. Except no one knows it's the same company taking payment because they are a silent partner and they let it look like a small indie studio is doing the publishing.

If you know who it is, just spit it out.

 

[fenners]

If you know who it is, just spit it out.

C'mon, don't put pressure on Stooge to burn bridges.

 

[timetokill]

So yeah, Blood Bowl with 5 players is too many, if you ask me. It works just fine, but damn if it doesn't take way too long.

 

[sneaky77]

let's try this again, anyone up for dominion on isotropic?

 

[narcosis219]

speaking of which, what's the latest on that? and is it going on general release once they manage to get it printed? and is the game any good anyway?

I backed this about 8 months ago and it was supposed to be shipped by Christmas 2011.

CGF is a really unprofessional part time game company and it's really showing here. Their ETA after admitting they messed up on the Christmas date was April and there hasn't been any news other than "we're trying our best". Apparently they needed something to do with getting the copies from China to their warehouses here or something. Really unclear.

Anyway, after the game got funded they contacted a lot of FLGS and took orders from them, so your FLGS could possibly be getting them at retail at the same time as the kickstarter backers do (if there was a kickstarter backer who wanted it shipped to that store). I'm not sure if they are going to do another print run after this though.

Still though, it's GtR with some cool art, though I loved the original and was bewildered to see everyone hating on the cartoon art. I thought it was fine, but even if I wasn't, it has nothing to do with the game itself and I don't understand why someone would write off a game just because it has cartoony art. Hopefully, when this edition finally finds its way to shelves, people will enjoy this otherwise amazing game.

 

[besada]

i don't even know what ogre is

Asymmetrical, hex-based, skirmish game involving a big damn tank. I played until the colors wore off the chits, back in the day. Armored hovercraft, suicidal infantry runs, and still the Ogre keeps coming toward your base. In a world of Civil War and WWII war games, it was incredibly fresh and fun. I'll be supporting it just to have a new copy to play.

 

[Flynn]

Asymmetrical, hex-based, skirmish game involving a big damn tank. I played until the colors wore off the chits, back in the day. Armored hovercraft, suicidal infantry runs, and still the Ogre keeps coming toward your base. In a world of Civil War and WWII war games, it was incredibly fresh and fun. I'll be supporting it just to have a new copy to play.

Those cut out and assemble tank models are pretty sweet looking too. I am very tempted to get that $100 box.

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

I backed this about 8 months ago and it was supposed to be shipped by Christmas 2011.

CGF is a really unprofessional part time game company and it's really showing here. Their ETA after admitting they messed up on the Christmas date was April and there hasn't been any news other than "we're trying our best". Apparently they needed something to do with getting the copies from China to their warehouses here or something. Really unclear.

Anyway, after the game got funded they contacted a lot of FLGS and took orders from them, so your FLGS could possibly be getting them at retail at the same time as the kickstarter backers do (if there was a kickstarter backer who wanted it shipped to that store). I'm not sure if they are going to do another print run after this though.

Still though, it's GtR with some cool art, though I loved the original and was bewildered to see everyone hating on the cartoon art. I thought it was fine, but even if I wasn't, it has nothing to do with the game itself and I don't understand why someone would write off a game just because it has cartoony art. Hopefully, when this edition finally finds its way to shelves, people will enjoy this otherwise amazing game.

To say GtR's was shitty is an understatement. The art is not only shitty but fucking lazy. They literally purchased a pack of clip art and slapped it on the card. They didn't even try and that's why I backed the Black Box. It's a great game and deserved to look better.

What I'm most looking forward to is the cock up that's going to happen with the "ship to your flgs" option. These guys can't even figure out how to get the game out of China at a reasonable date, how are they planning on co-ordinating sending which games to the correct store. Not to mention that so much time has passed how are the store owners going to remember they even agreed to such a cockamamie scheme in the first place. I predict the shit is going to hit the fan. Thankfully, I chose the ship to your home option so I dodged that bullet.

 

[StoOgE]

To say GtR's was shitty is an understatement. The art is not only shitty but fucking lazy. They literally purchased a pack of clip art and slapped it on the card. They didn't even try and that's why I backed the Black Box. It's a great game and deserved to look better.

What I'm most looking forward to is the cock up that's going to happen with the "ship to your flgs" option. These guys can't even figure out how to get the game out of China at a reasonable date, how are they planning on co-ordinating sending which games to the correct store. Not to mention that so much time has passed how are the store owners going to remember they even agreed to such a cockamamie scheme in the first place. I predict the shit is going to hit the fan. Thankfully, I chose the ship to your home option so I dodged that bullet.

I think they went with a printer in India. Or at least that was part of their original plan. They were charging so little for the game they are probably having a hell of a time figuring out how to print it, get it on a boat and ship it out for the amount they raised. It's really expensive. People see the total amount raised and assume the kickstarter got rich. I think Tammany Halls breakeven point is going to be aroung 60-65K for a relatively small print run. Then you have European backers who get mad at insanely high shipping, but I don't think people realize how expensive it can be to ship to Europe. I think my best quote is going to be around 35 bucks a copy, and I'm pretty sure that doesn't include about 4 dollars worth of handling.

As someone who has looked into all of this, it's really easy to fall into the trap of an unreliable Chinese printer. There are at least 4 of them that I've come across that have resulted in outright terrible experiences for the publisher. Tasty Minstrel ran into a huge boondoggle with their first two games (Homesteaders and that space game).

The printer put the cardboard into the boxes still wet from printing that led to mold issues. Throw in some coalation problems that f'ed up the contents of most copies of the games and die cutting problems that made the components not punching out correctly.

There is an old blog post from Tasty Minstrel where the two owners had to fly to their wharehouse and open every single copy of the games, throw in those little packets to keep stuff dry and fix the coalation problems in the game.

That said, the games still molded like crazy so they just dumped the stock on unsuspecting BGG Con attendees who all got moldy copies of games that had to be thrown away. Brilliant marketing strategy boys.

 

[fenners]

That said, the games still molded like crazy so they just dumped the stock on unsuspecting BGG Con attendees who all got moldy copies of games that had to be thrown away. Brilliant marketing strategy boys.

Yeah, the shitty attitude I got from one of the TMG representatives at that Con about it soured me against them *big time*.

 

[StoOgE]

Yeah, the shitty attitude I got from one of the TMG representatives at that Con about it soured me against them *big time*.

I think they lost a lot of money on that deal. I feel bad for them, but they knew there was a mold issue. I think you just eat the loss and move on at that point.

Giving away moody copies to the most vocal Bgg fans is just a stupid stupid move.

 

[StoOgE]

Speaking of Shady, Mayday stepped in it, again.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/789753/sticky-mayday-card-sleeves

They claimed their sleeves were identical and made in the same factory as FFG sleeves. FFG called him a liar, they are made in different countries.

 

[sneaky77]

is sleeving cards recommended?

 

[StoOgE]

is sleeving cards recommended?

I sleeve. Most people don't.

It's really a question of how OCD you are and how much you are willing to get made fun of every time you have to explain to a casual gamer that the cards didn't come sleeved but you took the time to sleeve all 500+ cards.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

If you've got the time and a little extra money, sleeving is probably a good call. I'm far too lazy to mess with it, but I can tell you that for stuff that's gotten a lot of play -- like the Dominion base set -- I regret not doing it.

I guess I could do it now, but... meh.

 

[StoOgE]

If you've got the time and a little extra money, sleeving is probably a good call. I'm far too lazy to mess with it, but I can tell you that for stuff that's gotten a lot of play -- like the Dominion base set -- I regret not doing it.

I guess I could do it now, but... meh.

This is actually my really broken logic. I like all of these games enough that I want to be able to play them in 10-20 years. Sleeves will help with that a good bit.

Obviously for some games it's less important, but you never know what might go out of print.

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

Speaking of Shady, Mayday stepped in it, again.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/789753/sticky-mayday-card-sleeves

They claimed their sleeves were identical and made in the same factory as FFG sleeves. FFG called him a liar, they are made in different countries.

This guy.... the balls on him.

 

[UpperCaseN]

This is actually my really broken logic. I like all of these games enough that I want to be able to play them in 10-20 years. Sleeves will help with that a good bit.

Obviously for some games it's less important, but you never know what might go out of print.

for me it's a combination of this, plus damaged aka marked cards. people get fidgety with their cards in hand and I have a few Catan cards where I can tell what resource it is from the back, because someone bent the fuck out of it or creased it. obviously this advantage only serves me or anyone who has noticed but I don't want to play that way. the sleeves I hope are protecting from this.

Some cards don't have proper sized sleeves and that's when I saw screw it; sleeves that are too loose or the incorrect size are a PITA and it's not worth it to deal with, IMO. Also games that are more expensive to sleeve than it would be to buy a new copy, Lost Cities comes to mind, I don't sleeve. if it ever gets ruined, I'll just buy a new one

 

[sneaky77]

so if I was to buy my first dominion expansion which you guys recommend, Intrigue, Prosperity or Hinterlands? Those are the 3 I found more appealing to begin with.

 

[StoOgE]

so if I was to buy my first dominion expansion which you guys recommend, Intrigue, Prosperity or Hinterlands? Those are the 3 I found more appealing to begin with.

Out of those prosperity. The correct answer is seaside.

 

[mercviper]

Out of those prosperity. The correct answer is seaside.

Quoted for truth.

 

[sneaky77]

Out of those prosperity. The correct answer is seaside.

really? I saw a dice tower review about it and it didn't seem as interesting. what's cool about it if you don't mind me asking.

Also what you guys think of dice tower? I just found the site video reviews browsing bgg and I like the way they do them are they somewhat reliable?

 

[StoOgE]

really? I saw a dice tower review about it and it didn't seem as interesting. what's cool about it if you don't mind me asking.

Also what you guys think of dice tower? I just found the site video reviews browsing bgg and I like the way they do them are they somewhat reliable?

Tom is a super nice guy who loves games. I've spoken with him online an have a very high opinion of him.

He is just overly enthusiastic about most games. He loves playing games and the experience to the point that he rarely has a bad review. So grain of salt.

 

[sneaky77]

Tom is a super nice guy who loves games. I've spoken with him online an have a very high opinion of him.

He is just overly enthusiastic about most games. He loves playing games and the experience to the point that he rarely has a bad review. So grain of salt.

yeah I noticed that, which is cool in a way but also makes you want to buy everything lol. I tend to look at the mechanics when he explains and if its something that I would like to try.

thanks.

 

[cozo]

LOVE tom vasel, such a dude

 

[mercviper]

really? I saw a dice tower review about it and it didn't seem as interesting. what's cool about it if you don't mind me asking.

Also what you guys think of dice tower? I just found the site video reviews browsing bgg and I like the way they do them are they somewhat reliable?

Intrigue is a pretty solid set that I feel is an improved base set with more attacks and introduces dual-type cards like nobles and harem. Some of my favorite cards in here are Shanty Town, Masquerade, Wishing Well, and Courtyard. I don't really hate any cards in this set... Except maybe tribute. There is NO way to defend against it since it isn't considered an attack card.

Prosperity puts in a new way to win via VP tokens, and has one of the best defense cards imo. I love the feel of everything being expensive and premium but I feel that the additions of Platinum and Colonies give a huge advantage to a big money strat that goes for those as opposed to a combo+card draw run out the provinces early that I like to do when playing dominion. My favorite cards in this set are Watchtower, Bishop, Goons, and Grand Market.

As an aside: I cannot find any use whatsoever for Loan. It seems like you use it to rid your coppers, but it's good for 2-3 plays at best, and then it's practically a dead card because when you use it and it pops out a silver or better, you really hurt yourself by killing that card for that deck cycle. I think it'd be a little different if say it was worth 2 and cost 4 to get, but did the same thing. As is, it's my last choice as a deck thinner, and unless I'm planning on playing a deck without money, I probably just wouldn't thin my deck.

Seaside introduces duration cards, and allows you to stow away cards for use in later turns. I think I like it best because it offers a lot of opportunities to thin down a deck for more consistency. Personal favorites here are Native Village, Haven, and Tactician.

Hinterlands I have bought, but I haven't played so I can't give any input on that.

 

[bloodydrake]

really? I saw a dice tower review about it and it didn't seem as interesting. what's cool about it if you don't mind me asking.

Also what you guys think of dice tower? I just found the site video reviews browsing bgg and I like the way they do them are they somewhat reliable?

I love the dice tower..especially the Miami Dice reviews.

I think Toms very honest with his reviews but he grades on the same scale as the game industry its 7 to 10..and as long as you know that he's very reliable if you agree with his tastes.
That said he rarely blatantly trashes a game he doesn't like, he tries to be polite, but if you watch enough of his reviews you can get a real sense for what he likes..and the other guy on the Miami Dice reviews is more openly critical of what he doesn't like vs Tom.

In Tom speak "I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE this game" is a 10(everyone should have it)
"hmm this is a good game but not a great game" is a 7(if your a fan of the genre get it, if not pass)