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The New Board Game Thread (Newcomer Friendly)

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Shoulda kickstarted it! Get in on that hot preorder action where you could help ensure the game gets made (even though it was already on its way to stores) & feel good about yourself.
Game Salute is such a slimy company. Is there a reason why companies like Game Salute and Queen use kickstarter? Besides the obvious, it's the hotness, I don't know why they don't just have a preorder system on their own site. Are the kickstarter fees cheaper than say paypal or the fees charged for credit card purchases? Hell Game Salute already has a store front on their own website.
Neverfade said:
I can't get behind that one solely because he has the Don listed as a Capo, which is decidedly not the top of the food chain.
Technically you can say the game only focuses on one gang within a family as opposed to the family as a whole.
 

mercviper

Member
I really want to play Paint the Line. I REALLY don't want to pay 40 bucks for a goddamn card game.

I'm summary, Game Salute can smoke a turd in hell.

Regarding Paint the Line, I paid ~$27 to some company to get it via Amazon, but I think it was barely worth that. The card material feels flimsy like thin plastic playing cards, but instead made of embossed paper, if that description makes any sense. Part of the inset asks that you cut it out to create a Serve/dealer button instead of providing their own token/disc. There is no scorekeeping card. I would've like there to be a card+wheel like M:tG life counters or well, something. The rulebook is pretty sparse and doesn't mention things like shot tokens and is ambiguous about other things. e.g. There is a card that forces an additional tap to any shot that returns it. Normally committing a shot requires a double tap, so does this mean you tap the return shot a 3rd time? Yet the rulebook has no mention of a triple tapped state. Another example is that the rulebook states that during your turn you may do "Any of the following actions once in any order:" one being untap a shot once, and another being commit to hitting a shot. This bring into question gameplay timing and makes you wonder if you can try to ready a shot after you've committed it to bring it back up a turn earlier or not.

Overall I still like the game a lot, but I think it's flawed and I feel the price point could've been better seeing how it looks like they cut a lot of materials to cut costs but passed on what seems like none of the savings to the consumer. $15, or even $20 if you want to factor in the PA trademark, would've been a much more decent price for what I got, especially when you compare it to Citadels or Red November.

That said, I'm still pretty excited about the Thornwatch game Krahulik is making and will probably shell out whatever they ask for to play that :x
 

Ri'Orius

Member
Has anyone played Seasons? I saw it in the store and liked the art, and after reading the rules on BGG it sounds legit... I might need to round up some comrades and go try it out (the store has it available to borrow)...
 

Lhadatt

Member
Game Salute is such a slimy company. Is there a reason why companies like Game Salute and Queen use kickstarter? Besides the obvious, it's the hotness, I don't know why they don't just have a preorder system on their own site. Are the kickstarter fees cheaper than say paypal or the fees charged for credit card purchases? Hell Game Salute already has a store front on their own website.

Kickstarter isn't a preorder system. It's used to allow projects to get off the ground when they would otherwise have more trouble obtaining funding. Game Salute probably does not have the resources to design a game from the ground up without investor help. Their primary business is manufacturing and fulfillment (shipping). I don't know the exact business model, but I suspect they take a cut for manufacturing, shipping, and profit, then give the designers the rest. If they're having to shell out for initial design costs as well, it could currently be prohibitive to get into that business.

mercviper said:
Regarding Paint the Line, I paid ~$27 to some company to get it via Amazon, but I think it was barely worth that. The card material feels flimsy like thin plastic playing cards, but instead made of embossed paper, if that description makes any sense. Part of the inset asks that you cut it out to create a Serve/dealer button instead of providing their own token/disc. There is no scorekeeping card. I would've like there to be a card+wheel like M:tG life counters or well, something.
...
Overall I still like the game a lot, but I think it's flawed and I feel the price point could've been better seeing how it looks like they cut a lot of materials to cut costs but passed on what seems like none of the savings to the consumer. $15, or even $20 if you want to factor in the PA trademark, would've been a much more decent price for what I got, especially when you compare it to Citadels or Red November.

Game Salute seems to manufacture according to the cost each designer wants to pay per unit. Paint the Line uses cheaper materials, probably because that's what the Penny Arcade guys decided to use. Everything in the set was designed by PA and the game company they worked with (can't remember offhand). The difference can be seen when looking at other Game Salute/Springboard titles. I just received Exile Sun, which has a completely different design aesthetic, higher quality materials, plastic components, and a well-made control card with sliding pieces of paper. It's put together better than PtL; then again, it costs more.
 
Kickstarter isn't a preorder system. It's used to allow projects to get off the ground when they would otherwise have more trouble obtaining funding. Game Salute probably does not have the resources to design a game from the ground up without investor help. Their primary business is manufacturing and fulfillment (shipping). I don't know the exact business model, but I suspect they take a cut for manufacturing, shipping, and profit, then give the designers the rest. If they're having to shell out for initial design costs as well, it could currently be prohibitive to get into that business.
In regards to the Paint the Line kickstarter campaign Game Salute was using it just for preorders. The game was already designed, printed, and was available for preorder at Penny Arcade when the kickstarter began. Queen Games does the same thing. I guess maybe that's where most of the eyes are right now but you'd think the fees associated with kickstarter would be much more than running preorders from your own website.
 
In regards to the Paint the Line kickstarter campaign Game Salute was using it just for preorders. The game was already designed, printed, and was available for preorder at Penny Arcade when the kickstarter began. Queen Games does the same thing. I guess maybe that's where most of the eyes are right now but you'd think the fees associated with kickstarter would be much more than running preorders from your own website.

Kickstarter fees and such probably are more, but the publicity and hype behind anything kickstarter now is likely far more in sales and such than any simple website preorder.
 

mercviper

Member
Kickstarter isn't a preorder system. It's used to allow projects to get off the ground when they would otherwise have more trouble obtaining funding. Game Salute probably does not have the resources to design a game from the ground up without investor help. Their primary business is manufacturing and fulfillment (shipping). I don't know the exact business model, but I suspect they take a cut for manufacturing, shipping, and profit, then give the designers the rest. If they're having to shell out for initial design costs as well, it could currently be prohibitive to get into that business.



Game Salute seems to manufacture according to the cost each designer wants to pay per unit. Paint the Line uses cheaper materials, probably because that's what the Penny Arcade guys decided to use. Everything in the set was designed by PA and the game company they worked with (can't remember offhand). The difference can be seen when looking at other Game Salute/Springboard titles. I just received Exile Sun, which has a completely different design aesthetic, higher quality materials, plastic components, and a well-made control card with sliding pieces of paper. It's put together better than PtL; then again, it costs more.

As far as Game Salute goes for Paint the Line, I think it felt really shady the way they were marketing it on Kickstarter. The game was already funded and off the ground and on the way to retail* when GS launched its Kickstarter. It wasn't any cheaper than what you would get off the PA website itself for pre-orders and it included the same bonus materials. So what GS really did in that instance was use Kickstarter as a pre-order system and presented it as a "backer special" type of deal via Kickstarter. PA didn't even mention the GS kickstarter so it feels even more like something GS decided to do on their own to try and draw sales into their own system.

Regarding my complaint about materials, it's more that I can see that they decided to use the cheaper materials (and I'm not faulting them for this), but compared to other games with similar materials (like Citadels), it is 25% more expensive with no real gain. Then again, looking on Amazon, the MSRP for each of the games I mentioned are the same as PtL ($30), it's just that they have better discounts offered for them, so maybe I'm just salty that I couldn't get PtL at a better discount.

I still stand by my point that the game feels even cheaper because they want you to cut out your own Serve button with the inset's cardboard, ruining the look of my inset that nobody will ever see. Things like this are really, really minor, but they still affect a person's impression of the game.
 

fenners

Member
As far as Game Salute goes for Paint the Line, I think it felt really shady the way they were marketing it on Kickstarter. The game was already funded and off the ground and just waiting for a release date when GS launched its Kickstarter.

Let's be clear here - it was *on the way to retail* when they ran the Kickstarter.
 

Fjord

Member
My girlfriend and I binge on the game every now and then, making new decks and trying out some scenarios that we haven't beaten. It's a lot of fun, but it can definitely be cruel.

LOTR co-op eh? Anything else like this or that someone would recommend for playing with girlfriends? Agricola, Dominion, RFTG can be alright with two people but girls seem to take conflict a bit personally and she doesn't like losing. I usually turn down her play with just the two of us, which is a shame because we both enjoy them.
 

Lhadatt

Member
In regards to the Paint the Line kickstarter campaign Game Salute was using it just for preorders. The game was already designed, printed, and was available for preorder at Penny Arcade when the kickstarter began. Queen Games does the same thing. I guess maybe that's where most of the eyes are right now but you'd think the fees associated with kickstarter would be much more than running preorders from your own website.
I wasn't aware of that. My bad!

Was this considered to be contrary to Kickstarter's guidelines? They approve projects that make use of Kickstarter, so wouldn't they have known about the preorders and the game's manufacturing state?
 
I wasn't aware of that. My bad!

Was this considered to be contrary to Kickstarter's guidelines? They approve projects that make use of Kickstarter, so wouldn't they have known about the preorders and the game's manufacturing state?

It pretty much was but I suppost Kickstarter never found out about it being an already out there product. Their new guidelines kinda seem to try to prevent such things from happening as it's not the only case where Kickstarter was being used as a preorder avenue.

And Games Salute has bad rep also for their whole seal of quality shtick which means nothing at all and they just created as if it meant something. Member here who worked with them dished some dirt about them though no public on the board here. Yea I have no interest in supporting anything done by those guys.
 

Biff

Member
Hi GAF.

What is an actually good 2 player board game? Not a "well, it's okay with 2 players, but it's way better with 4" game, but a "this game is made for 2 players" game.

Thanks :)
 
Geez, I am definitely behind the times in this scene. I only really got into boardgames about 3 years ago when a friend introduced me to Catan and then Powergrid the year after. A bunch of us go up the a cottage for a week in the summer and just binge on Halo, COD and board games (an out of country friend always brings a few new treats for us). I only just discovered Acquire, Imperial and Twilight Struggle this past summer.

Though my wife typically doesn't like video games, she absolutely loves boardgames. Unfortunately, I despise luck (though I can generally make due with Catan) and can get pretty competitive (read: whiny little bitch when losing) so two player competitive games can be hazardous to our relationship. However, I am very interested in learning more about co-op games. I don't think I want to go too overboard with something like Arkham, and BSG is min. 3 player. Any help on finding a good, deep, challenging 2 player minimum co-op game would be appreciated. We have a lot of space, so if a game requires a large time investment, we should be o.k. to just leave it and come back later.

Hi GAF.

What is an actually good 2 player board game? Not a "well, it's okay with 2 players, but it's way better with 4" game, but a "this game is made for 2 players" game.

Thanks :)

Twilight Struggle is very interesting and 2 player only.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
There are so many fun two-player games of all kinds of complexity and theme.

Some of my favorites:

Light
Battle Line
Lost Cities
Carcassonne
Jaipur

Medium
Race for the Galaxy
Innovation
Mystery Rummy

Heavy
Twilight Struggle (really a Medium, but feels Heavy at first to new gamers)
Claustrophobia (same)
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Not "made" for 2 players, but Pandemic and Flash Point are fantastic with 2 players even if they support more too.
 

fenners

Member
There are so many fun two-player games of all kinds of complexity and theme.

Some of my favorites:

Light
Battle Line
Lost Cities
Carcassonne
Jaipur

Medium
Race for the Galaxy
Innovation
Mystery Rummy

Heavy
Twilight Struggle (really a Medium, but feels Heavy at first to new gamers)
Claustrophobia (same)

That's a fantastic list of gaming there. Seriously. All of them are easy to find & reasonably priced IMO, and all of them offer a great gaming experience. I'd add the Ticket To Ride Nordic as the best TtR experience for two players and emphasis Race as the best of the 'medium' bunch, but they're minor quibbles.
 

Neverfade

Member
I'm really glad I printed my own copy of CAH. It was about 7 bucks and I easily got 7 dollars of entertainment out of it, but that's about the limit. That gimmick got old quick. It's still apples to apples.
 

Evlar

Banned
Hi GAF.

What is an actually good 2 player board game? Not a "well, it's okay with 2 players, but it's way better with 4" game, but a "this game is made for 2 players" game.

Thanks :)
Mr. Jack. Detectives search for Jack the Ripper before he can escape to kill again.
 

Daigoro

Member
well, power is out and looks like its going to out for at least another day or two. time for a new board game!

im going to check some local stores today (B&N, TRU, and maybe Target). thinking about maybe checking out Forbidden Island or Pandemic. or maybe some horror themed game for Halloween.

hopefully i can find some decent stuff in stock in my area.
 
It appears that my LGS (that's right, no F) has both the new and old versions of Vegas Showdown. Old version is only $10, brand new.

Should I bite?
 

Daigoro

Member
i went with Pandemic. other options were Lord of the Rings, Zombies!!!, and Forbidden Island.

Pandemic being highly rated and a co-op game seemed like the right choice. hopefully will get a game in tonight.
 
It appears that my LGS (that's right, no F) has both the new and old versions of Vegas Showdown. Old version is only $10, brand new.

Should I bite?
Vegas Showdown is awesome. It's a fairly light auction game with a tile laying portion for building a casino. The new edition fixes a tile that was missprinted and the playmats are (supposedly) redone in slightly thicker paper stock. If you can get the old version for $10 go for it. You aren't missing out by going with the older version and for $10 you more than get your money's worth.
 

yamo

Member
So guys... Shadows over Camelot. Do you think I will enjoy it even though I didn't enjoy Defenders of the Realm? The whole traitor mechanic seem interesting.

I really want a fun co-operative game. I have already judged out Pandemic due to not liking Defenders of the Realm, as they seem to be pretty much the same game with different themes. But maybe they are more different than they seem?
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
So guys... Shadows over Camelot. Do you think I will enjoy it even though I didn't enjoy Defenders of the Realm? The whole traitor mechanic seem interesting.

I really want a fun co-operative game. I have already judged out Pandemic due to not liking Defenders of the Realm, as they seem to be pretty much the same game with different themes. But maybe they are more different than they seem?

It depends on your numbers really. Shadows shouldn't be played with less than 5 in my experience. It can also be brutally tough on the good guys depending on your setup (as in, hard to win even without a traitor). But I've had a ton of fun with it given the right crowd. If you have a truly hardcore crowd (and, again, the right numbers), you might be better off going with BSG, but the theme and relative simplicity of Shadows can be appealing (it's still a mediumweight game though, not a gateway).

Never played Defenders, but my personal favorite co-op is Ghost Stories. Tough with unique mechanics and fun gameplay and theme. Though to get the most out of that you really need four.

Another standout in co-ops is Flash Point Fire Rescue. Similar to Pandemic and probably the simplest of the bunch but has a really nice theme.
 

Neverfade

Member
So guys... Shadows over Camelot. Do you think I will enjoy it even though I didn't enjoy Defenders of the Realm? The whole traitor mechanic seem interesting.

I really want a fun co-operative game. I have already judged out Pandemic due to not liking Defenders of the Realm, as they seem to be pretty much the same game with different themes. But maybe they are more different than they seem?

Go with BSG. You won't regret it.
 
So guys... Shadows over Camelot. Do you think I will enjoy it even though I didn't enjoy Defenders of the Realm? The whole traitor mechanic seem interesting.

I really want a fun co-operative game. I have already judged out Pandemic due to not liking Defenders of the Realm, as they seem to be pretty much the same game with different themes. But maybe they are more different than they seem?

Pandemic and Battlestar Galactica are both musts imo.
 
Played another 4 player game of Spartacus, on "Epic" mode this time. Great fun. We're all learning a lot and the meta-game is changing every time, meaning we're all eager to get back to the table and play another game of it.

I will say that the Arena is fundamentally broken in a couple ways (at least with our players) and we're looking at a couple house rules to fix it, though apparently they are going to be updating the combat rules with the expansion.
 

yamo

Member
Go with BSG. You won't regret it.

It depends on your numbers really. Shadows shouldn't be played with less than 5 in my experience. It can also be brutally tough on the good guys depending on your setup (as in, hard to win even without a traitor). But I've had a ton of fun with it given the right crowd. If you have a truly hardcore crowd (and, again, the right numbers), you might be better off going with BSG, but the theme and relative simplicity of Shadows can be appealing (it's still a mediumweight game though, not a gateway).

Never played Defenders, but my personal favorite co-op is Ghost Stories. Tough with unique mechanics and fun gameplay and theme. Though to get the most out of that you really need four.

Another standout in co-ops is Flash Point Fire Rescue. Similar to Pandemic and probably the simplest of the bunch but has a really nice theme.

I think i'm leaning towards SoC over BSG. Not really feeling the theme as I have never seen the series, nor has any of my friends afaik.
Not in a hurry to order anything though so I suppose i'll just watch a bunch of reviews of the games and then decide.
 

Neverfade

Member
I think i'm leaning towards SoC over BSG. Not really feeling the theme as I have never seen the series, nor has any of my friends afaik.
Not in a hurry to order anything though so I suppose i'll just watch a bunch of reviews of the games and then decide.

None of us had seen it at the time we started playing. Knowing the premise is enough. I can only recommend Shadows over BSG if your group is reserved and won't meta game. Shadows might edge it there, but the mental fuck-withery of BSG just can't be touched.

*looks at Merchants of Venus component list and set up info in rulebook* Yea not really feeling this one.

I'm feeling it real hard. Shame it shows up tomorrow and game night is tonight.
 
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