I say Xbox versions of games may look better via component and in 480p - 720p. Theres also the matter of less audio compression and 5.1 DD.
When the Xbox is taken advantage of, there's no contest in AV quality.
The Nintendo GameCube Appreciation and Collecting Thread.
- Thread starter Seik
- Start date
I say Xbox versions of games may look better via component and in 480p - 720p. Theres also the matter of less audio compression and 5.1 DD.
When the Xbox is taken advantage of, there's no contest in AV quality.
D.Lo
Member
Well I meant between PS2 and GC. Xbox versions were often better because they were a port of the PC version, or the lead platform, whereas GC usually got a cheapo PS2 port.
Image quality isn't no contest though, can't argue with higher resolutions, or sometimes Xbox has higher colour depth, But if both are PS2 ports with most stuff otherwise basically equal, Gamecube has superior component output, especially over non-launch Xbox revisions which have terrible component IQ. Also the Xbox bios smears 480i so on a SD CRT always looks worse.
Yeah 480i is a big weakness of the xbox and the DAC itself isn't as clear as the GC. However, the dithering and contouring seems much more apparent in GC versions of games. PS2 is the worst offender in this regard.
BTW, does the GC have an 8bit alpha channel on top of its 24bit color mode? Xbox is 32bit. 24bit RGB - 8bit alpha. The interesting thing about this output is that it has a second uncompresed color channel for tranparencies as it's actually 4:2:2:4 color space.
Even some PS2 games can have the edge.
Hmm, I wonder which ones.
Spy Hunter (2001) is one of the few game from that period whose ps2 version is the most stable and best-looking one.
D.Lo
Member
Yeah it all depends on lead platform, and after that who did the porting and with what budget. Multi-platform development wasn't as straightforward as it is now with identikit Intel/AMD western focused consoles (or even last gen's PPC pipeline).
Splinter Cell was a typical example for western games, it was made with PC and Xbox as the lead platforms by the game's actual developer Ubisoft Montreal. This was cut down significantly in a port to PS2 by a B team in China, and that version was then ported to Gamecube with a few enhancements. Gamecube basically got a higher performance version of the PS2 version, when it could have actually handled something much closer to the original.
Most Japanese devs had PS2 as lead platform, so both GCN (and Xbox if it for a port) were higher performing versions of those. In the rare cases GCN was the lead platform (Sonic Heroes, or games originally planned as exclusive like Viewtiful Joe, Killer 7 and RE4) it varied from clear best version (Sonic) to dominating (RE4).
All three had some things the others couldn't do, and some PS2 games would have had real trouble being ported, which may be one reason (separate from exclusivity deals) why most of the PS2's highest graphical quality/performance games (eg MGS3, Jak games) didn't get ported, so points of comparison are hazy.
Splinter Cell was a typical example for western games, it was made with PC and Xbox as the lead platforms by the game's actual developer Ubisoft Montreal. This was cut down significantly in a port to PS2 by a B team in China, and that version was then ported to Gamecube with a few enhancements. Gamecube basically got a higher performance version of the PS2 version, when it could have actually handled something much closer to the original.
Most Japanese devs had PS2 as lead platform, so both GCN (and Xbox if it for a port) were higher performing versions of those. In the rare cases GCN was the lead platform (Sonic Heroes, or games originally planned as exclusive like Viewtiful Joe, Killer 7 and RE4) it varied from clear best version (Sonic) to dominating (RE4).
All three had some things the others couldn't do, and some PS2 games would have had real trouble being ported, which may be one reason (separate from exclusivity deals) why most of the PS2's highest graphical quality/performance games (eg MGS3, Jak games) didn't get ported, so points of comparison are hazy.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Really been feeling nostalgic about GC.
Man it'd be amazing if NX has a handle.
Man it'd be amazing if NX has a handle.
D.Lo
Member
Depends on the software, I believe? Some games used true 24 (Metroid Prime, F-Zero, Rogue Squadron) but Nintendo Kyoto games were 18-bit.
The internal Nintendo engine had a lot going on so it seemed they sacrificed colour depth. Here's a cool piece of Wind Waker: http://polycount.com/discussion/104415/zelda-wind-waker-tech-and-texture-analysis-picture-heavy
Third party games mostly just used whatever the PS2 could handle in my experience, except by being rendered in higher resolution (512x448 vs 640x528 framebuffer or something like that?) and cleaner made the same flaws more apparent. PS2 could only do 16 bit colour at full resolution I believe?
I found another spec list. GC does have a 32bit RGBA mode like the Xbox. Still, I dont suspect it got much use from 3rd party devs making multiplat ports and as you pointed out Nintendo was forgoing that mode themselves to some degree. There seems to be more technical limitations to consider when chosing bit depth on PS2 and GC which makes sense.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I didn't realize Sonic Heroes was superior on GCN until now... but googling around, it seems you're right.
Anyway I don't regret getting my Sonic games on Xbox. It seems competent enough. And it's mid-2000s Sonic... I don't care that much anyway. It's just to collect.
sixteen-bit
Member
so Dolphin is compatible with the entire GCN library now
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1274415
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1274415
TheMoon
Member
There was a thread about this a few months back. Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2. Lead SKU outdid the PC, GCN, Xbox versions.
I need that PS2 version!!!
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Surprised to see this is the only post referencing that it's on sale now.
I'm waiting for a plug and play version.
Already saw people flipping their GCN component cables today on FB for $200 Canadian ($150 US) which is waaaay cheaper than before.
Is it expected to be cheaper? Or do you just want the convenience?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I doubt it would be cheaper? If anything it could be more? And you will be unable to control the on-screen menu with the controller, as you can with the internal version. There will be a button on the unit. So, there are downsides.
I just want the convenience. I don't really want to physically mod my console, and being able to plug it into any GCN would be nice.
Gotcha. Makes sense.
I didn't know if the first internal version would be subsidizing the plug n play somehow.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The creator seems to view the internal version as the main product with more features, so you can buy it with confidence.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
$113.45, whew. That's why I'm thinking of going with the external solution, probably more expensive than the board but cheaper than getting it installed.
I ordered it.. Was a bit surprised at the final $123 price, but I've been waiting years for 480p straight from the cube so I pulled the trigger. This guy is a huge fan and I expect nothing but awesome results from this, a lot of work went into it.
SO friggen excited to play GCN all the time again. I just couldn't do composite anymore and my TV doesn't have S-video.
SO friggen excited to play GCN all the time again. I just couldn't do composite anymore and my TV doesn't have S-video.
zephervack
Member
Oh wow, we finally have an alternative to Component cables!!!!!!
My head is spinning though, do the easy packs come with everything? HDMI female connector, wires etc??
How do I know what pack to pick???
My head is spinning though, do the easy packs come with everything? HDMI female connector, wires etc??
How do I know what pack to pick???
it's a perfectly reasonable price imo if you take into account the fact most people would simply not be able to install it themselves and that BAC seem to offer really top notch work
Rather than making a half-baked LTTP (which I can't anyway since I'm forever Junior'd) maybe I'll just post my brief impressions here:
Wave Race: Blue Storm
I picked up a copy of Waverace at a local record shop. Figured since I got the GCN at launch but never got around to trying this launch title, why not give it a whirl.
Boy, have I grown impatient. Either that or it didn't age so great; the complete lack of any art direction or style does not do the game any favors. Playing multiplayer with some friends was not fun whatsoever. I somewhat enjoyed the arcade feel of the game but by the time you get used to the controls and course layout, you're forced to sit out for the rest of the race since you (as a new player) have invariably missed some of the cones. Very friendly game mechanic.
Overall it seems like a title that was used to pad out the launch library. Compared to other launch titles (Luigi's Mansion, THPS3, Super Monkey Ball) I'm glad I skipped over this one as a child.
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
This brings me to my (revisited) impression of an aforementioned launch game, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, which I picked up from the same record shop. This is one game I did purchase around the GCN launch in NA, and I played the ever-loving shit out of it back in the early 00s. Another title that benefits greatly from the pick-up-and-play arcade feel of it all, the overall designs of the everything from the levels, controls and especially the goal objectives, are all incredibly succinct. Upon revisiting it some 15 years later, I quickly grew bored of it in spite of all the games competences. I quit somewhere around Suburbia (I always haaaated that level.) Maybe my tastes have changed, I'm not sure. I did play it quite a bit longer this time around than I did Waverace. It was a nice little jaunt down nostalgia lane, but ultimately I realized this was not a street I found myself missing.
I think I'll sell them back to the record shop.
Wave Race: Blue Storm
I picked up a copy of Waverace at a local record shop. Figured since I got the GCN at launch but never got around to trying this launch title, why not give it a whirl.
Boy, have I grown impatient. Either that or it didn't age so great; the complete lack of any art direction or style does not do the game any favors. Playing multiplayer with some friends was not fun whatsoever. I somewhat enjoyed the arcade feel of the game but by the time you get used to the controls and course layout, you're forced to sit out for the rest of the race since you (as a new player) have invariably missed some of the cones. Very friendly game mechanic.
Overall it seems like a title that was used to pad out the launch library. Compared to other launch titles (Luigi's Mansion, THPS3, Super Monkey Ball) I'm glad I skipped over this one as a child.
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
This brings me to my (revisited) impression of an aforementioned launch game, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, which I picked up from the same record shop. This is one game I did purchase around the GCN launch in NA, and I played the ever-loving shit out of it back in the early 00s. Another title that benefits greatly from the pick-up-and-play arcade feel of it all, the overall designs of the everything from the levels, controls and especially the goal objectives, are all incredibly succinct. Upon revisiting it some 15 years later, I quickly grew bored of it in spite of all the games competences. I quit somewhere around Suburbia (I always haaaated that level.) Maybe my tastes have changed, I'm not sure. I did play it quite a bit longer this time around than I did Waverace. It was a nice little jaunt down nostalgia lane, but ultimately I realized this was not a street I found myself missing.
I think I'll sell them back to the record shop.
sixteen-bit
Member
Happy 15th anniversary to NA cube
I'm taking a wait and see approach until the external version is relased. Think I'll weigh all the pros and cons before making up my mind.
Plus, I want to know exactly what internal processes are going on. Is it going to down sample to bluray standard 4:2:0 or maintain the original 4:2:2?
Plus, I want to know exactly what internal processes are going on. Is it going to down sample to bluray standard 4:2:0 or maintain the original 4:2:2?
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
zephervack
Member
What is expected out of the external version? just a plug and play cable to connect to the Digital Out on the Gamecubes that have it?
An external box that transcodes Nintendo's morse code digital to HDMI at the very least.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
I wanna collect gamecube games but gamecube's are super expensive for some reason and Wii's are dirt cheap. If I were to buy one of those Wii's that plays gamecube games, would there be any disadvantages to that?
Not really. Video output via component isn't as clean. That's it really.
You also have the option with a Wii to dump all of your GameCube games to a USB stick for playback on the Wii or Wii U via Nintendont. Also, region free and force 480p on all games for all regions.
You can also use a Wii u pro controller or dualshock 3/4 if you're playing your GameCube games on a Wii or Wii U via Nintendont which is cool.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Gamecube has slightly better video output. Apart from that, some/many are nostalgic for the look of the GC.
Wii arguably has more advantages. Component cables are dirt cheap and there are some decent HDMI dongles (but be wary of the cheap ones). Homebrew is also easier to mess with and has a lot more options, and ripping tools are easier to use for Dolphin or a loader. And of course the biggest advantage is that you get access to the Wii library and not just the GC one.
Also, the flowchart:
D101 would be the choice for me, I'd like to be able to use either my component cable or an HDMI cable. I wonder how clean the installation is.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Awesome, thanks guys. You can get Wii's for nothing these days, gonna start with Mario Sunshine.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Right, I have no idea how I forgot that since it's one of the reasons I stick with mine.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
I didn't think of that either. Not terribly interested in a gamecube player right now though I don't think, maybe down the line.
sixteen-bit
Member
i'm not a fan of needing a synced wii remote with battery power to navigate the menu on Wii either, tho I'm sure you can boot directly to GCN mode with homebrew
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Using Bootmii and maybe Priiloader (don't know anything about that one) you can boot to the Homebrew Channel, which supports a GC controller. So going that route you could never need to use a Wii remote.
How did you clean them before and where do you store them?
DonMigs85
Member
Just wipe them with a cotton lens cloth. They're in a sealed plastic bin in their cases with a silica gel packet, but it is pretty humid over here (Manila).
Being from the Jungles of Mexico myself, I know the havoc humidity can cause on valuable items. If the humidity where you are is as bas as I'm thinking, you shoul consider having a dehumidifier near your games.
dancrane212
Member
Might end up desoldering the Pluto Xii board, selling it on eBay and putting in BA Console's board in my system instead. I wasn't able to find a good solution to secure the Pluto board without cutting or gluing anything so it's just been sitting in the console with some electric tape.
Having a more "official" looking HDMI port would also be a big win.
Having a more "official" looking HDMI port would also be a big win.
IrishNinja
Member
TheMoon
Member
theSlacker
Member
I bet that they know what they got too so no chance at low balling.
davidwhangchoi
Member
hahaha