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[Flo_Evans]

ahh I am in love with this camera.

The insane high file size and post processing time actually slow you down and make you shoot more like film. Its kind of hokey but it does feel more like an "art" camera than the D4 (battle tank).

The new video shit on the D800 is great. Much needed improvements. I haven't tried the 5Dmk.III personally but this seemson par in video performance from the 5D footage I have seen. Beats the 7D handily. Some quick samples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oil-X0RGBFM

The AF-S 28mm f1.8 is nice. I need this camera & lens combo in my life.

 

[BlueTsunami]

There has been speculation that some digital Medium Format would move to the D800 due to the 'large enough' filesize, manageable body, and higher ISO latitude. But yeah, I can see why one would slow down with 36MP files.

 

[RuGalz]

I ended up returning that Rokinon I bought a few weeks back. Manual focus and exposure without confirmation light just wasn't gonna cut it. This canon 40mm though is getting some really rave reviews.

I've never used a Canon for manual focus before, what's the part with exposure without confirmation light? You can't press a button to ask the camera to do metering or something? Btw, $15 off $150 at J&R with JULY4 coupon.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I've never used a Canon for manual focus before, what's the part with exposure without confirmation light? You can't press a button to ask the camera to do metering or something? Btw, $15 off $150 at J&R with JULY4 coupon.

Most cameras cannot meter if there is no chip and electrical connection in the lens to tell the camera what aperture it is set to.

 

[RuGalz]

Most cameras cannot meter if there is no chip and electrical connection in the lens to tell the camera what aperture it is set to.

I thought the Rokinons at least have electrical connections... guess I was wrong.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I thought the Rokinons at least have electrical connections... guess I was wrong.

I think the Nikon ones are chipped but not the canon for some reason.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I've never used a Canon for manual focus before, what's the part with exposure without confirmation light? You can't press a button to ask the camera to do metering or something? Btw, $15 off $150 at J&R with JULY4 coupon.

Canons meter through the lens, I believe its Nikons that have this issue. This is how I was able to shoot with vintage lenses with my Rebel. Though the issue here is that metering without the camera knowing the exact aperture can cause exposure shift with manual lenses. Meaning, if you shoot wide open the lens might overexpose a bit (so you have to set the Exposure Compensation with this in mind). When stopping down to f8 or beyond the exposure will shift in the opposite direction (give you a darker exposure). It could have been the split prism focus screen on my camera compounding the issue though.

 

[fart]

nikon samyang/rokinons are all chipped.

waiting for dat d600

 

[RuGalz]

Canons meter through the lens, I believe its Nikons that have this issue. This is how I was able to shoot with vintage lenses with my Rebel. Though the issue here is that metering without the camera knowing the exact aperture can cause exposure shift with manual lenses. Meaning, if you shoot wide open the lens might overexpose a bit (so you have to set the Exposure Compensation with this in mind). When stopping down to f8 or beyond the exposure will shift in the opposite direction (give you a darker exposure). It could have been the split prism focus screen on my camera compounding the issue though.

Ah I see... Interesting, never knew since I never had to worry about it. On Pentax, with vintage lens, you just hit a button on the camera and it would perform metering and adjust shutter speed accordingly in manual mode. I haven't seen the exposure shifting issue (yet).

 

[magicstop]

Ah I see... Interesting, never knew since I never had to worry about it. On Pentax, with vintage lens, you just hit a button on the camera and it would perform metering and adjust shutter speed accordingly in manual mode. I haven't seen the exposure shifting issue (yet).

Canons will too . . . You can shoot in either AV mode, which allows you to set the aperture on the lens and the camera adjusts shutter speed, metering, ISO, or you can just go M mode and do it all yourself. I don't run into any metering problems with my 60D and my SMC Tak 50 . . . Just trying to nail the focus through the viewfinder can be a chore. LiveView works well for that, though I'm considering getting one of the chipped adapters that allows focus confirmation.

 

[RuGalz]

Canons will too . . . You can shoot in either AV mode, which allows you to set the aperture on the lens and the camera adjusts shutter speed, metering, ISO, or you can just go M mode and do it all yourself. I don't run into any metering problems with my 60D and my SMC Tak 50 . . . Just trying to nail the focus through the viewfinder can be a chore. LiveView works well for that, though I'm considering getting one of the chipped adapters that allows focus confirmation.

So on your 60D it does not provide focus confirmation without the lens being chipped then? Do you know if higher end models do?

 

[BlueTsunami]

So on your 60D it does not provide focus confirmation without the lens being chipped then? Do you know if higher end models do?

This is definitely how all the Canon bodies deal with Manual Focusing lenses. Although I'm a little ignorant on it beyond that since I only really relied on the VF to confirm focus.

 

[magicstop]

So on your 60D it does not provide focus confirmation without the lens being chipped then? Do you know if higher end models do?

I don't believe so . . . Basically, if you are using a vintage lens (like in my case, an SMC Tak), you have to use an adapter that's got the electronics built in to allow for focus confirmation. If you just choose a basic metal one with no electronics, then no beuno on the confirmation. I actually don't know if this is what you mean by "chipped," so I apologize if there's been some misunderstanding on my part.

 

[RuGalz]

This is definitely how all the Canon bodies deal with Manual Focusing lenses. Although I'm a little ignorant on it beyond that since I only really relied on the VF to confirm focus.

I don't believe so . . . Basically, if you are using a vintage lens (like in my case, an SMC Tak), you have to use an adapter that's got the electronics built in to allow for focus confirmation. If you just choose a basic metal one with no electronics, then no beuno on the confirmation. I actually don't know if this is what you mean by "chipped," so I apologize if there's been some misunderstanding on my part.

I see. I haven't dealt with MF that much in the past because my previous camera used pentamirror and it was impossible to see where the lens was focusing in the VF. Once I saw the big difference with my current camera, which uses pentaprism, I started to play with it more and also getting more into vintage lenses.

I've always thought focus confirmation even without the contacts is the standard, so I've taken it for granted. I guess it's going onto the list of features to check whenever I buy a new body. Thanks for the info!

 

[giga]

50 1.8 vs 40 2.8 af noise (contrast detection): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfGhXwgYN_g&feature=related
iso 12233 chart vs the 50 at 2.8: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/...meraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2
Flare test: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/...nsComp=105&CameraComp=453&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2

The 40 does pretty well. The centers are the same for both, and the mid and corners are much sharper on the 40 wide open. Far less flare. It does have more vignetting on full frames, but that's pretty easy to correct.

The only real advantage of the 50 is having about a one stop advantage, but it's pretty soft at 1.8.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

50 1.8 vs 40 2.8 af noise (contrast detection): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfGhXwgYN_g&feature=related
iso 12233 chart vs the 50 at 2.8: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/...meraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2
Flare test: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/...nsComp=105&CameraComp=453&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2

The 40 does pretty well. The centers are the same for both, and the mid and corners are much sharper on the 40 wide open. Far less flare. It does have more vignetting on full frames, but that's pretty easy to correct.

The only real advantage of the 50 is having about a one stop advantage, but it's pretty soft at 1.8.

I was really debating the nifty fifty but now I think it might be worth it to bump to this for the minimal price distance. Either that or go for the 1.4 50mm

 

[mrkgoo]

I was really debating the nifty fifty but now I think it might be worth it to bump to this for the minimal price distance. Either that or go for the 1.4 50mm

Lol, I have all 3.

 

[goodfella]

Random Question:

I have an micro4/3 camera, and after travelling, I must have gotten sand in the lens zoom mechanism. When I zoom, there is clearly a friction. Just wondering if anyone here happens to know a way to clean the sand out. Google has failed me so I don't have too much hope

Luckily, it really seems to only be an aesthetic annoyance.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

Lol, I have all 3.

what do you recommend then?

 

[Divvy]

I was going to get the nex-5n, but then this happened:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054YVA8S/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=heaprcom05-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creativeASIN=B0054YVA8S

This is a pretty good deal. Will have to buy a separate 14-42mm lens though.

Anyone know how it compares to a Canon g12?

 

[magicstop]

I was really debating the nifty fifty but now I think it might be worth it to bump to this for the minimal price distance. Either that or go for the 1.4 50mm

Don't be afraid to go vintage, if you don't mind MF vs AF. I got my SMC Tak 50mm 1.4 for $160, mint condition. It's a far nicer lens than either the 40mm or the 50 1.8, but obviously has some drawbacks (again, MF). The quality is more akin to the L lenses. The SMC Tak's were known for actually costing Pentax on every lens; at the time they were competing with Zeiss, and were producing absolutely top notch lenses. Super high quality IQ, dreamy bokeh, super sharp, performs really well even at 1.4, and build quality that you just can't get these days, at least for under a grand . . . It seemed a no brainer, especially as I like manual setups and taking my time on shots. I guess if you were chasing a moving subject or needing rapid AF, that wouldn't be an option, but otherwise . . .

 

[mrkgoo]

what do you recommend then?

Um.... Maybe the Canon 50mm f1.4.

I like the 40mm Focal range, but I haven't used it much yet.

Something about this pancake lens is that it's a bit TOO small. I've found I like cradling my camera when not in use by gripping under the camera and fingers wrapped around the lens. Can't do that with the 40mm. I think I might drop my camera with that lens one of these days....

Also, there appears to be a minor either production issue or quirk with the 40mm. There are some times when the lens doesn't awaken, meaning there is not ability to focus, manual or auto, and power cycling the camera does nothing - the lens needs to be mounted and unmounted.

If on a budget, there's nothing wrong with the 50mm f1.8. Dirt cheap, and you get 80% of the 50mm f1.4. And most of that remaining 20% is related to build and AF rather than image quality.

I bought the 40mm because it is by ratio, cheaper than the 50mm f1.8 here, so I had to try it.

 

[tomjr]

I was really debating the nifty fifty but now I think it might be worth it to bump to this for the minimal price distance. Either that or go for the 1.4 50mm

I had the 50 1.4 for my crop sensor Canon, but ended up not using it much because it felt a bit long for me. Aside from that, I have doubts about the 50 1.4 reliability. Prior to selling the lens, I had to send it to Canon for repair because the lens would only focus in one direction.

The service ticket remarks read:

"Replaced cam barrel, focusing assy USM, focusing rack gear. Checked and cleaned all functions to factory specifications."

The repair cost me about $90USD. It might have been a problem with just my lens, but I would recommend researching it before you decide to buy. Good luck!

 

[giga]

I don't like the 50mm focal length on crops. Not wide enough for me and kind of short for portraits. If I was to get one, I'd look at the sigma 50 or the smc takumar mentioned earlier. The sigmas bokeh and build is much better than the canon 50 1.4 too.

 

[Gabyskra]

what do you recommend then?

Sigma 30mm

 

[Damaged]

Anybody have much experience with the nikon D7000? I'm thinking it may be getting to the time where I should upgrade from my 3100 and i really can't afford to go full frame just yet, plus I don't want to lose my dx 35mm 1.8.

 

[Menelaus]

I had the 50 1.4 for my crop sensor Canon, but ended up not using it much because it felt a bit long for me. Aside from that, I have doubts about the 50 1.4 reliability. Prior to selling the lens, I had to send it to Canon for repair because the lens would only focus in one direction.

The service ticket remarks read:

"Replaced cam barrel, focusing assy USM, focusing rack gear. Checked and cleaned all functions to factory specifications."

The repair cost me about $90USD. It might have been a problem with just my lens, but I would recommend researching it before you decide to buy. Good luck!

The 50 1.4 also is a notoriously bad autofocuser, and many people recommend you only use on a body that has the micro adjustment feature.

 

[mclaren777]

This made me laugh...

 

[Menelaus]

The camera equivalent of looking at Haley Joel Osment grown up.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

The camera equivalent of looking at Haley Joel Osment grown up.

That's really weird to say, but goddamn if it doesn't make sense

 

[GamePnoy74]

This made me laugh...

Not so odd...a buddy of mine was using this same 40mm pancake on his 5DMk3 last weekend.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

The camera equivalent of looking at Haley Joel Osment grown up.

... that's ... that's quite apt.

 

[fat pat]

The camera equivalent of looking at Haley Joel Osment grown up.

this is perfect.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

I was going to get the nex-5n, but then this happened:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054YVA8S/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=heaprcom05-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creativeASIN=B0054YVA8S

This is a pretty good deal. Will have to buy a separate 14-42mm lens though.

Anyone know how it compares to a Canon g12?

I never use the 14-42 for it's size it just seems like a waste of space. I stick with the 14mm on my GF2 all the time until I get the 20mm 1.7 or the Leica 25mm 1.4.

Image wise it is easily superior to a G12 due to sensor size alone. In broad daylight I've been able to capture some pretty good photos.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

So, what's everyone's thoughts on the pricing of the OMD E-M5 in regards to the next 6-12 months?

Obviously, equipment gets cheaper as it gets older; and I'm entirely okay with that. But I've noticed how quickly Micro Four Thirds bodies drop in price. Right now, the body is pretty hard to find, and is sometimes selling used for even a little more than the $999 MSRP. Is this a camera I can expect to hover in the $800-thousand dollar range for the next year or so... or am I going to buy one this fall and then see it for <$500 on the second-hand market next summer? I know, I know... it doesn't matter... but what you can afford... yada yada; but thing is, I don't *need* to change, I just want to change.

I'm traveling quite a bit for work (new location/state at least two or three times a month, sometimes 5+ clients in ten days). And I want to be able to just snag pics of my escapades during my travels. I'm drawn to the OMD EM-5 for a few key reasons:

1) Small - easier than my D90 for travel, and it's SOOOO MUCH easier to snag candid shots with a smaller camera. Also easier for bringing with me when also trying to enjoy "going out" or hitting the town in different cities.

2) Weather sealed/great build quality - I don't have to worry about tossing it in a bag, or storing it when it's raining but I'm away from my car/house/hotel.

3) Some of the best AF and low-light performance in the segment. I like night shooting, so this is key.

4) It'll force me down to just getting three of four key lenses; less debating and indecision

5) Who doesn't want something new?

*****

I almost exclusively rent lenses. I have some cheapies that I use for my day-to-day stuff. I'm very much an (extremely) amateur photographer, and so I can get away with just picking up a rental when I actually *need* good pictures (friend's wedding, sister's graduation, July 4th family reunion, etc). So, with all that said, it's pretty easy for me to switch systems.

I'm thinking I'll start with:

OM-D -EM5 (Black) Body - $1000
HLD-6 Battery Grip - $300
Olympus 45mm f1.8 - $400

... and then I debate on two crucial decisions. The first, should I save up and go for the Olympus 12mm f2 for $800? Or do I save FIVE HUNDRED dollars and go with the Panny 14mm 2.5? I'd sooooo much rather have that faster lens, considering a good majority of my shots will be nightime, relatively wide action shots. But the $500 could give me a whole other lens.

Second decision... I'd really like one zoom lens. Something like a 55-135 (crop) equivalent. But they all look like crap for the 4/3rds system. Is there a gem in the selection that I'm missing? Luckily, this would be a purchase WAY down the road, anyway. I can't even think of affording that, now, if I go with the 12mm f2.

So, yeah, all-in-all, I'd be looking at $2K-$2.5K. I know for you professionals and semi-pro hobbyists, that's chump change. But that's a huge chunk of cash for me. If I end up going for it, I'll probably be looking at diving in come September(ish).

***

Sorry, I really don't mean to waste anybody's time. I don't even know what the point of my post is. I'm just kind of thinking out loud. But if anyone has some thoughts to share, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

Sorry, I really don't mean to waste anybody's time. I don't even know what the point of my post is. I'm just kind of thinking out loud. But if anyone has some thoughts to share, I'd love to hear them.

Same boat as you, I sold my D90 some time back, got a Panasonic GF2 for fun since it was only $200 for the body. Got the Panny 14mm 2.5 and am not satisfied with the low light capability since the ISO limit on this GF2 only gets to 800-1600 and I see noticeable noise.

Waiting for the OM-D to drop in price.

My suggestions: forget the battery grip, although it looks cool I don't know how your battery situation is generally but I would wait to get the grip or just get a second battery. With the grip the size of the camera is going to go from small to medium and then your issue with size doesn't make sense then. Instead of the 12mm f/2 why not get the 20mm f1/.7 for speed? Unless you need that wide angle but then again the Panny 14mm 2.5 with the OM-D's high ISO capabilities should be fine for semi-dark situations when you must go wide and can't use your 20mm 1.7. For the price of the 12mm f2 you can get both the 14mm 2.5 and the 20mm 1.7 and still save some cash.

Also you do know the crop factor is 2x right? So that Olympus 45mm 1.8 is going to feel like ~60mm or so on your D90.

 

[Instigator]

So, what's everyone's thoughts on the pricing of the OMD E-M5 in regards to the next 6-12 months?

Probably won't change much. I doubt the new batch of Pens (rumored to be shown in September) will steal much of the thunder. Olympus is supposed to make different kinds of OM-D cameras, but nothing on the horizon.

In terms of competititon, Fuji aims too high. Still no Canon mirrorless annoucement. No sign Samsung wants to compete in that market. No rumbling about a possible NEX7 replacement. The only possible rival is the Panasonic GH3.

I suspect Olympus might bundle stuff (like the battery grip) instead of dropping prices at a later point.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

sup gaise

Quick question that I hope someone in here might help me out with. About a year ago I bought this, mostly for shits and giggles, for my A33. It came with a 55mm adapter for using with my standard lens. Now, since then I've bought this lens, which has a filter size of 62mm, and I want to use the macro/fish eye filter with my new lens. Can I just get one of 55mm to 62mm step up adapters to make my filter+55mm adapter fit on my new lens? Thanks in advance.

Edit: After reading some more, I guess I'll need a step down-ring rather than a step up-ring?

 

[Prez]

Could someone tell me why it would be a bad idea to just buy a random second hand DSLR for $100? I'm just about to start with photography and I feel like the best way to learn is by having limitations. Working around limitations to get the best out of something that's not so good. Wouldn't that teach you to get the best out of a better camera once you upgrade?

I'm not sure if I see the point in getting a camera that takes good looking pictures right out of the box. Wouldn't it be better if you're forced to make quite some effort to make photos look good? It would force me to learn to look which is my main goal right now.

This is not really an excuse to cheap out. I've just learned from experience that limitations can be a very good thing. When I learned to work with synthesizers, I started out with a synth that was very limited and hard to get decent sounds from, but after learning to make that synth sound good, I was able to work with any other synth. I'm not sure if I would have learned as much if I started with a synthesizer that sounded great out of the box.

So...any downsides to getting a cheap second hand DSLR if you want to work with limitations? The only thing I do not want is very obvious digital artifacts, so it might not be such a good idea to randomly pick a camera. Slight digital artifacts are not such a big deal though.

Don't need any camera recommendations, I've already been given great recommendations in this thread a few weeks ago.

 

[Jugendstil]

Does anyone have a recommendation for places to have prints made online? I have a huge backlog of photos I'd like to have printed.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Could someone tell me why it would be a bad idea to just buy a random second hand DSLR for $100? I'm just about to start with photography and I feel like the best way to learn is by having limitations. Working around limitations to get the best out of something that's not so good. Wouldn't that teach you to get the best out of a better camera once you upgrade?

I'm not sure if I see the point in getting a camera that takes good looking pictures right out of the box. Wouldn't it be better if you're forced to make quite some effort to make photos look good? It would force me to learn to look which is my main goal right now.

This is not really an excuse to cheap out. I've just learned from experience that limitations can be a very good thing. When I learned to work with synthesizers, I started out with a synth that was very limited and hard to get decent sounds from, but after learning to make that synth sound good, I was able to work with any other synth. I'm not sure if I would have learned as much if I started with a synthesizer that sounded great out of the box.

So...any downsides to getting a cheap second hand DSLR if you want to work with limitations? The only thing I do not want is very obvious digital artifacts, so it might not be such a good idea to randomly pick a camera. Slight digital artifacts are not such a big deal though.

Don't need any camera recommendations, I've already been given great recommendations in this thread a few weeks ago.

Well, if you can ensure that it's in proper working condition, sure, why not?

Thing is, even if you have a DSLR that is very good i.e great dynamic range, impressive ISO performance, fast FPS, fast autofocus, great colour reproduction, etc. etc., it's not really going to mean anything unless you know how to frame things properly and learn how to take interesting subjects.

If you want to really use limitations as a way to explore photography though you might as well just get a holga.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Same boat as you, I sold my D90 some time back, got a Panasonic GF2 for fun since it was only $200 for the body. Got the Panny 14mm 2.5 and am not satisfied with the low light capability since the ISO limit on this GF2 only gets to 800-1600 and I see noticeable noise.

Waiting for the OM-D to drop in price.

My suggestions: forget the battery grip, although it looks cool I don't know how your battery situation is generally but I would wait to get the grip or just get a second battery. With the grip the size of the camera is going to go from small to medium and then your issue with size doesn't make sense then. Instead of the 12mm f/2 why not get the 20mm f1/.7 for speed? Unless you need that wide angle but then again the Panny 14mm 2.5 with the OM-D's high ISO capabilities should be fine for semi-dark situations when you must go wide and can't use your 20mm 1.7. For the price of the 12mm f2 you can get both the 14mm 2.5 and the 20mm 1.7 and still save some cash.

Also you do know the crop factor is 2x right? So that Olympus 45mm 1.8 is going to feel like ~60mm or so on your D90.

Good points all around, and I appreciate your input I have a couple questions/comments...

Can you comment at all on the build quality of those lenses? A big thing about the OM-D that's drawing me in, is the universal praise it seems to be getting over its magnesium/metal construction and just overall "tough" feel. This is a camera that will likely take quite a beating over the years; I just can't baby it too much with it will be getting crammed into baggage, tossed around in the plane, and won't get dedicated attention when I'm grabbing it to hit the town. I like the 12mm f2, as it sounds like, from all I've gathered, another really well-built piece of kit.

I am aware it's a 2x crop, and that also kind of scares me about the 20mm. The 12mm working as a 24mm seems much better for "up close and personal" photography; a 40mm equivalent kind of scares me when I'm trying to grab pictures with my friends at a concert or indoor music festival or bar or trying to grab pictures of street graffiti, etc.

All that said, I'll definitely be taking your suggestions to heart. I need to trek out 400 miles to the nice camera store in St. Louis and get some hands on time with all of this stuff.

I may just rent a bunch of lenses when I buy my body, and see what I like best.

Probably won't change much. I doubt the new batch of Pens (rumored to be shown in September) will steal much of the thunder. Olympus is supposed to make different kinds of OM-D cameras, but nothing on the horizon.

In terms of competititon, Fuji aims too high. Still no Canon mirrorless annoucement. No sign Samsung wants to compete in that market. No rumbling about a possible NEX7 replacement. The only possible rival is the Panasonic GH3.

I suspect Olympus might bundle stuff (like the battery grip) instead of dropping prices at a later point.

Thanks! That makes me feel better. Again, I don't care if the value proposition gets better in the next 12 months; but I don't want my camera to barely be worth half of what I spent in a year.

And just fyi, the reason I want the grip is two fold - one, I have large hands. I'm 6'2" and 250lbs; I'm going to absolutely dwarf the OM-D. That said, a big DSLR is just getting unwieldy with what I'm doing. And two, I would like to have dual batteries, as I don't want to have to bother with a charger when I leave. Nevertheless, I get your point, and might play around with one before buying.

***

In any case, just ordered this off Amazon:

My old Canon used CompactFlash, and so I stole a 2GB SD card from my DSiXL for the last week for my new D90. Figured this would do well for the D90; and if I get seriously going in a certain direction, I'll snag a 16GB or 32GB model, and I'll use this 8GB as a backup.

 

[Prez]

Well, if you can ensure that it's in proper working condition, sure, why not?

Thing is, even if you have a DSLR that is very good i.e great dynamic range, impressive ISO performance, fast FPS, fast autofocus, great colour reproduction, etc. etc., it's not really going to mean anything unless you know how to frame things properly and learn how to take interesting subjects.

That's what I want to learn. A cheap DSLR will do then.

If you want to really use limitations as a way to explore photography though you might as well just get a holga.

That's a bit too much. Can't experiment as much with film and I get the extra cost of film rolls and developing.

 

[Jugendstil]

And just fyi, the reason I want the grip is two fold - one, I have large hands. I'm 6'2" and 250lbs; I'm going to absolutely dwarf the OM-D. That said, a big DSLR is just getting unwieldy with what I'm doing. And two, I would like to have dual batteries, as I don't want to have to bother with a charger when I leave. Nevertheless, I get your point, and might play around with one before buying.

I have big hands and was worried about the size of the OM-D too, buts it hasn't been an issue so far. I still want to buy the grip eventually because its so well-reviewed but I wouldn't let it stop you from getting the camera first. I really love mine.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

I have big hands and was worried about the size of the OM-D too, buts it hasn't been an issue so far. I still want to buy the grip eventually because its so well-reviewed but I wouldn't let it stop you from getting the camera first. I really love mine.

Oh really? That's really good to hear. That $300 price tag is just straight-up absurd. For $150, it'd be a no-brainer. $200, I wouldn't complain. But $300? That's an iPad 2, or a new phone, or another lens, or a nice suit jacket, etc etc... for a piece of plastic with a couple buttons on it ;p

 

[reggieandTFE]

I have big hands and was worried about the size of the OM-D too, buts it hasn't been an issue so far. I still want to buy the grip eventually because its so well-reviewed but I wouldn't let it stop you from getting the camera first. I really love mine.

I have the grip and love it. I also had the 12mm for a awhile and had a ton of fun shooting with that lens. However, I sold it to help finance the OM-D and replaced it with the 14mm pancake. The color and contrast are higher on the 12mm but the vented resolution is slightly better on the pancake. Its also absurdly tiny and only half a stop slower. Right now, I only have the 14mm and the 45mm and I highly recommend both. I'm thinking about getting the new Panasonic 12-35 f2.8 as its the first "pro" micro 4/3 lens and seems to match well on the OM-D.

 

[Jugendstil]

Oh really? That's really good to hear. That $300 price tag is just straight-up absurd. For $150, it'd be a no-brainer. $200, I wouldn't complain. But $300? That's an iPad 2, or a new phone, or another lens, or a nice suit jacket, etc etc... for a piece of plastic with a couple buttons on it ;p

Yeah, it seems excessive, especially since the camera ain't cheap to begin with. Of course if the grip is half as well-made as the camera itself, I'm sure it's worth owning. I've heard only good things about it. I'm just holding out to see if I can get it as a gift for my birthday next month.

 

[tino]

Could someone tell me why it would be a bad idea to just buy a random second hand DSLR for $100? I'm just about to start with photography and I feel like the best way to learn is by having limitations. Working around limitations to get the best out of something that's not so good. Wouldn't that teach you to get the best out of a better camera once you upgrade?

I'm not sure if I see the point in getting a camera that takes good looking pictures right out of the box. Wouldn't it be better if you're forced to make quite some effort to make photos look good? It would force me to learn to look which is my main goal right now.

This is not really an excuse to cheap out. I've just learned from experience that limitations can be a very good thing. When I learned to work with synthesizers, I started out with a synth that was very limited and hard to get decent sounds from, but after learning to make that synth sound good, I was able to work with any other synth. I'm not sure if I would have learned as much if I started with a synthesizer that sounded great out of the box.

So...any downsides to getting a cheap second hand DSLR if you want to work with limitations? The only thing I do not want is very obvious digital artifacts, so it might not be such a good idea to randomly pick a camera. Slight digital artifacts are not such a big deal though.

Don't need any camera recommendations, I've already been given great recommendations in this thread a few weeks ago.

Its like buying a 2000 dollar car. Its a gamble. I think first time car buyer should stick to newish used cars.

In the case of used DSLR, if it goes fubar you can not fix it. Plus for a veteran, its really easy to test the shutter speed and meter accuracy. If you dont have spear camera, you cant test the equiptment. There is also the matter of cleaning the sensor, if you dont have a cleaning kit how do you deal with dirty sensor?

If you want to find the best deal for your money I recommend look for kits that include kit lens and cheap flash and the bag. That means the owner barely used theDSLR and now want to move on with a smaller camera.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

Can you comment at all on the build quality of those lenses? A big thing about the OM-D that's drawing me in, is the universal praise it seems to be getting over its magnesium/metal construction and just overall "tough" feel. This is a camera that will likely take quite a beating over the years; I just can't baby it too much with it will be getting crammed into baggage, tossed around in the plane, and won't get dedicated attention when I'm grabbing it to hit the town. I like the 12mm f2, as it sounds like, from all I've gathered, another really well-built piece of kit.

20mm on a M4/3 will be wider than 35mm on Nikon. I use to keep a 35mm 1.8 on my Nikon almost all the time and never had problems with getting up close shots. So I assume 20mm would be fine as well since it will be wider than what you get on a APS-C camera. As for build these are non zoom lens so they are fairly compact and I wouldn't worry too much.

I never baby my gear and nothing bad has every happened to my cameras, just don't drop them.

 

[shantyman]

Does anyone own the Canon 70–200mm F/4 L Lens? I am thinking about getting this for my crop body for the times where I need telephoto reach.