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[reggieandTFE]

Ok guys. I'm now ready to, very sadly, put away my 35mm film cameras (well just finding an nice shelve for them, I won't part with my m2 and FM2). Since I don't have a darkroom anymore, I just don't have the will to find the place, time and money to process film...

I'm looking for something (relatively) small, fast, quick and reliable, with a fast 50mm equivalent lens (maybe also a ~90mm equivalent), the ability to take somewhat good quality videos and basic manual or semi-auto operating (basically, I'd just need aperture priority and I'd wish for manual focus with a nice handling feel to it, none of those loose and infinite turning rings you can find on some AF lenses).

I don't use and won't use zooms. I've never really used a digital camera, nor autofocus...

After doing some research online I've found my two main contestants:

Olympus OM-D-EM5
+ small !
+ configurable
+ (apparently) quite fast
+ good jpgs (I might turn to raw in the long run but not right now)
+ apparently good quality video
+ excellent IS
+ silent ?
+ 2 lenses that seem good for my needs : The Panasonic 25 f/1.4 and the Olympus 45 f/1.8

- small and somewhat awkward handling (I don't feel that comfortable holding it, I've yet to try the grip, but it's fucking expensive and the bottom half would be useless to me)
- EVF (I don't know if I can get used to this shit and the lag is killing me)
- no built-in flash
- expensive, especially if I need the grip


Pentax K5
+ Relatively cheap compared to the Olympus
+ Handling feels good
+ optical viewfinder, yay
+ built-in flash

- Pentax (I'm usually a Nikon guy when it comes to Reflex)
- IS not as good as the olympus
- screen not as good as the olympus
- a bit too big
- no idea what lenses I would put on it

What say you camera GAF ?

The OM-D grip is expensive, but it's weather-sealed and the vertical grip can store an extra battery ( if Olympus ever gets them out in public). The Panny 25mm and Oly 45mm area ghat enough that the grip isn't really necessary. However, I'd suggest you get the 14mm pancake ($160 dekitted on eBay) and 20mm (~$325) along with the 45mm for a tiny, light set of (28mm, 40mm and 90mm equivalent) primes that no other mirrorless system can beat in terms of performance or weight and size. Some tests have shown the 20 to be sharper than the 25 outside of corners at open aperture.

 

[shantyman]

I had all my gear out messing about, so I thought I'd nab a quick shot of my 'kit'.

Typically, though, I go out with 2 lenses. Normally the 17-40L and maybe my 50mm f1.4.

These days though, I'm all about light and just grab the 40mm f2.8.





Sadly missing from the lineup are my stolen EF-S 60mm macro and EF 85 mm f1.8 lenses. Two of the very best. I loved those things!
Also not shown are my 18-55 II (non-IS) kit lens (guess what the photo was taken with!), and my EF1.4x II extender.

How do you like the 70–200mm? I have been eyeing that lens for a while now.

 

[BaronLundi]

Thanks a lot for all the replies guys. My current lenses are not a factor as the good ones were stolen

After trying them again I'm leaning towards the olympus more. The handling is not perfect but I'd like something I can carry around everyday or so.

Reggie, you listed all the lenses I'm eyeing

Will decide after my short vacation.

 

[mrkgoo]

How do you like the 70–200mm? I have been eyeing that lens for a while now.

It was one of my earliest lenses I got after my kit and my first L back on my 350D. I loved it at the time. Sharp as anything, nice pop and great colours.

Since then though, I've used it a lot less. I just don't use tue focal length as much, preferring wide-normal. I also feel that my 7d somewhat shows the flaws as in it nearly feels like my 7d out resolves it. Can't be true though. I dunno. Like I said I just don use it much after discovering what focal lengths I like.

Also it basically can't be used indoors. It's just too slow and too long. If I had a choice though, I'd get the one with is these days. I still think it's a wonderful lens and like to hold oto it for those situations I wan a telephoto.

 

[Ember128]

BaronLundi, I'd go for the Olympus OM-D for you. It's awesome.

I haven't properly described my problem. It's not that I want the DOF preview to change when used at 1.4. It's that what is shown as in focus through the viewfinder is not what is actually in focus. Until about f/4, the camera does not accurately display DoF. That is, if I am on 1.4, and looking through the viewfinder, I am seeing an image that looks like f/4. It's not until I view the captured image on the LCD that the focus issue is apparent.

(I say 'issue' but am certain it is by design, which is why I ask about swapping viewfinders)

Live view works much better, but it is tough to use in sunlight. Manual focus via live view gives a tack sharp image 100% of the time.

As for focus confirmation, I am talking non-moving subject while on a tripod. It locks focus, or focus confirms in the case of MF, yet the image is not properly in focus. It is usually way off. This happens with all my lenses. I get proper focus with my AF lenses perhaps 1/3 of the time.


The 7D's servo AF should be able to track moving targets, but I have never once had luck with it working. That may be a case of me somehow using it wrong. I've only tried it a few times. But for single shot AF, on a tripod, taking a picture of an orange or something - - that's a function I expect to work without much fuss.

Do you have any examples I can see? What settings were you using, especially for the autofocus points, how were you shooting? I'd be glad to help. I have some bird shots I can show you when I'm not going to bed and explain how I used the AF there. When someone walks into the store asking why their camera isn't working right, it's usually a couple odd settings.

The big thing is ALL the AF settings. So one shot vs servo/ai focus, one shot vs continuous, and especially how many/what autofocus points. The last being one of the most important.

The viewfinder will not display what you really see for DOF because DOF is influenced by sensor size, focal length, and aperture, and the Viewfinder isn't the same as you're sensor size for how that works.

For still life on a tripod I imagine you'd be using manual focus anyways. I rarely use AF in the situation as I'm setting up everything. I'll take test shots and blow them up on the camera and check them that way. At that point narrow depth of field can be a big problem because it can get really really narrow.

The 7D is a great Camera, taking full advantage of what the focus system has to offer is the hardest part. I've seen the same supposed horror stories too, but I'd take those with a grain of salt, mainly because anyone can say anything on the internet and be inaccurate about something, or misinformed. Case in point, Ken Rockwell. For a time there was a cult following on dpreview of people who insisted that if you used a specific production batch of 3M Scotch tape to clean your sensor, it was the best. So people ended up phoning around looking for a specific production batch of 3m Scotch tape because... That's the internet as it relates to cameras.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Is the Rebel XT designed with a user changeable focus screen? The 7D is not. I think it is the only camera in the EOS lineup without one. I see that aftermarket screens are still available but I'm wondering how well they work.

I don't have much of a budget but I'd like to have an easier time with my equipment. I guess the question is, what's the fastest easiest way to make a 7D a capable manual focus camera? A new focus screen or a loupe for the LCD?

The XXD, 5D/5DMKII and 1D series cameras are all made to allow consumer access to the focus screens (Canon actually makes different focus screens for these cameras). Its not a standard feature for the Rebel series but it can be done, just carefully. The new VF overlay by Canon makes this a much harder procedure, something Nikon users have had to relinquish for a while now.

Looking up the quirks of the 7D viewfinder it seems like it can be replaced but a site that sells focus screens recommends letting a professional do it. I'm not sure how much it costs all together but you could send the whole body to Katz Eye and allow them to change out the screen for you. I believe their screens alone cost around $100. Its the company I used to buy the screen for my Rebel and I recommend them.

http://www.katzeyeoptics.com/item--Canon-7D-Focusing-Screen--prod_7D.html

I believe the 7D's VF overlay will still work with the new screen which is pretty cool. When I switched out the screen for my Rebel I had to give up the AF point etchings.

On the flip, it'll probably be much cheaper to get an LCD loupe plus you'll be able to actually magnify image which is great for manual focusing. I still prefer focusing via a traditional viewfinder though.

 

[subversus]

I decided against buying Zeiss. I looked through some test pictures on Flickr and came to conclusion that if you suck then you suck, Zeiss or not.

So I'm looking for a wide angle lense with Canon mount - 28-35 mm in 500-700$ range. Any good lenses in that range?

 

[mrkgoo]

I updated my 7D to 2.0.

Something I didn't think would be kinda neat is RAW-processing. YOu can snap a picture in RAW, then save out to JPEG, applying whatever in-camera settings you want. YOu can change white balance, picture styles, resize, etc.

I can see it becoming handy if you want previsualise what it might look like taken under different settings.

 

[VNZ]

I decided against buying Zeiss. I looked through some test pictures on Flickr and came to conclusion that if you suck then you suck, Zeiss or not.

So I'm looking for a wide angle lense with Canon mount - 28-35 mm in 500-700$ range. Any good lenses in that range?

Since I upgraded to a 5DmkII and got rid of my EF-S 10-22mm I've been on the lookout for new wide glass, too, and haven't really been able to decide on anything good enough. Canon have a lot of cheap primes (24, 28, 35) but they're rather soft and, well, cheap. The new 2.8 IS ones (24, 28) seem too expensive for their performance. The L zooms (16-35, 17-40) are not spectacular, but decent enough (and the 17-40 is good value, so I've been very close to buying that one several times). The L primes are spectacular, but so expensive. An updated 28mm f/1.8 USM would be awesome, but I'm not sure if that's gonna happen now that the new IS primes are out.

 

[Red]

BaronLundi, I'd go for the Olympus OM-D for you. It's awesome.


Do you have any examples I can see? What settings were you using, especially for the autofocus points, how were you shooting? I'd be glad to help. I have some bird shots I can show you when I'm not going to bed and explain how I used the AF there. When someone walks into the store asking why their camera isn't working right, it's usually a couple odd settings.

The big thing is ALL the AF settings. So one shot vs servo/ai focus, one shot vs continuous, and especially how many/what autofocus points. The last being one of the most important.

The viewfinder will not display what you really see for DOF because DOF is influenced by sensor size, focal length, and aperture, and the Viewfinder isn't the same as you're sensor size for how that works.

For still life on a tripod I imagine you'd be using manual focus anyways. I rarely use AF in the situation as I'm setting up everything. I'll take test shots and blow them up on the camera and check them that way. At that point narrow depth of field can be a big problem because it can get really really narrow.

The 7D is a great Camera, taking full advantage of what the focus system has to offer is the hardest part. I've seen the same supposed horror stories too, but I'd take those with a grain of salt, mainly because anyone can say anything on the internet and be inaccurate about something, or misinformed. Case in point, Ken Rockwell. For a time there was a cult following on dpreview of people who insisted that if you used a specific production batch of 3M Scotch tape to clean your sensor, it was the best. So people ended up phoning around looking for a specific production batch of 3m Scotch tape because... That's the internet as it relates to cameras.

I am having issues with everything AF. Servo has never been able to keep up (I have tested with bike riders, running animals, and cars, and it never seems to hold focus long enough to take a picture - - but it is a setting I can't tell if I am using correctly, because I've never used that kind of AF system before). I typically use single point, one shot AF (or try to). What usually happens is the lens searches for focus, and in between each shot (of a stationary object, on a tripod), it resets focus, as if something has moved. I have two AF lenses, a Sigma 30 mm and a Tokina 11-16. But even when my focus confirm light flashes when manually focusing, it is so far off from what is actually in focus. Leaving it on full auto also leads to blurry pictures. I see focus lights blinking all over the place, but after checking the shot, it's all out of focus.

@BlueTsunami: I prefer using the viewfinder for photography, too. I need to save as much $$ as I can though, so a loupe might be the way to go.

 

[subversus]

Since I upgraded to a 5DmkII and got rid of my EF-S 10-22mm I've been on the lookout for new wide glass, too, and haven't really been able to decide on anything good enough. Canon have a lot of cheap primes (24, 28, 35) but they're rather soft and, well, cheap. The new 2.8 IS ones (24, 28) seem too expensive for their performance. The L zooms (16-35, 17-40) are not spectacular, but decent enough (and the 17-40 is good value, so I've been very close to buying that one several times). The L primes are spectacular, but so expensive. An updated 28mm f/1.8 USM would be awesome, but I'm not sure if that's gonna happen now that the new IS primes are out.

meh

Might buy 35 mm Distagon then. Everything else is not good enough or costs like Zeiss.

 

[Red]

I'll add that I have been testing focus with high shutter speeds to avoid even tiny camera vibrations. It's set at 1/320 or faster. I've tested with a shutter release in the past, but not recently. Battery is dead in my release and I haven't replaced it for a few weeks.

Despite my whining I would prefer the problem lie with me and not the camera. That's easier to fix.

 

[radios shipping overview]

meh

Might buy 35 mm Distagon then. Everything else is not good enough or costs like Zeiss.

Have you looked at the Samyang 35/1.4? I've heard it called the "poor man's Zeiss" and it gets great reviews.

http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/657-samyang35f14eosff
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Ne...m-f-1.4-AS-UMC-Canon-Affordable-everyday-lens

 

[subversus]

Have you looked at the Samyang 35/1.4? I've heard it called the "poor man's Zeiss" and it gets great reviews.

http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/657-samyang35f14eosff
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Ne...m-f-1.4-AS-UMC-Canon-Affordable-everyday-lens

wow, thanks

might buy this one

 

[sneaky77]

I have a Canon 50D but lately I been thinking about upgrading to a 7D is that a sizable upgrade worth taking, or just wait until I can afford an MKII or III?

 

[SaitoH]

I have a Canon 50D but lately I been thinking about upgrading to a 7D is that a sizable upgrade worth taking, or just wait until I can afford an MKII or III?

There's rumours of a 7D replacement, so I'd wait until Photokina in September.

 

[golem]

I have a Canon 50D but lately I been thinking about upgrading to a 7D is that a sizable upgrade worth taking, or just wait until I can afford an MKII or III?

Hmm yeah wait till Photokina (rumors of a cheap FF), but consider a refurb'ed Mark II through Canon's loyalty program (~$1600?). Unless you need the fps. Then go for the 7d

 

[BlueTsunami]

meh

Might buy 35 mm Distagon then. Everything else is not good enough or costs like Zeiss.

The 35mm Distagon is considered a reference lens for 35mm and good enough for the new Sony 36MP sensor. If you get it you're getting the best you can get. Its also a very balanced lens (optically). No field curvature, no strong Chromatic Aberrations, strong contrast, great colors and extremely sharp when stopped down a bit.

 

[RuGalz]

As for focus confirmation, I am talking non-moving subject while on a tripod. It locks focus, or focus confirms in the case of MF, yet the image is not properly in focus. It is usually way off. This happens with all my lenses. I get proper focus with my AF lenses perhaps 1/3 of the time.

Have you considered sending your camera in for check up/repair? Since it happens with all your lenses and micro adjustment doesn't help it could be that the sensor has shifted far enough that micro adjustment is not enough to correct it.

 

[subversus]

The 35mm Distagon is considered a reference lens for 35mm and good enough for the new Sony 36MP sensor. If you get it you're getting the best you can get. Its also a very balanced lens (optically). No field curvature, no strong Chromatic Aberrations, strong contrast, great colors and extremely sharp when stopped down a bit.

*weeps*

 

[xValentine]

Or you can check samples in flickr and decide for yourself.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Or you can check samples in flickr and decide for yourself.

Blizzow! http://zeissimages.com/index.php

Such a great site to stroke my inner fanboy

 

[BJK]

It was one of my earliest lenses I got after my kit and my first L back on my 350D. I loved it at the time. Sharp as anything, nice pop and great colours.

Since then though, I've used it a lot less. I just don't use tue focal length as much, preferring wide-normal. I also feel that my 7d somewhat shows the flaws as in it nearly feels like my 7d out resolves it. Can't be true though. I dunno. Like I said I just don use it much after discovering what focal lengths I like.

Also it basically can't be used indoors. It's just too slow and too long. If I had a choice though, I'd get the one with is these days. I still think it's a wonderful lens and like to hold oto it for those situations I wan a telephoto.

For those of us who don't pay enough attention, is this a critique of the f/4 or the f/2.8 (non is)? As someone who likes sports photography, I'm looking for a quick-focusing lens to lust after and be completely unable to rationalize. My 70-300 (non L) takes quality photos, but I need to pick my spots before the play starts; otherwise the AF won't allow me to take the picture fast enough.

(Also still a rank amateur in DSLR, and open to the notion I might be doing something wrong.)

 

[mrkgoo]

For those of us who don't pay enough attention, is this a critique of the f/4 or the f/2.8 (non is)? As someone who likes sports photography, I'm looking for a quick-focusing lens to lust after and be completely unable to rationalize. My 70-300 (non L) takes quality photos, but I need to pick my spots before the play starts; otherwise the AF won't allow me to take the picture fast enough.

(Also still a rank amateur in DSLR, and open to the notion I might be doing something wrong.)

It,s the f4 non is. The common dilemma is that lens vs your 70-300 is. On the one hand, you have is and extra 100mm. On the other hand you have L and f4. I chose the latter had never regretted it.

Can't say what would be good for sports though. I assume you want speed of focus and wide aperture.

 

[radios shipping overview]

NEX-6 with a new 16MP sensor and an EVF? For under $1k? yes plox

 

[xValentine]

NEX-6 with a new 16MP sensor and an EVF? For under $1k? yes plox

If they dropped the Tri-navi control on the NEX-6, then it's probably a huge downgrade from the NEX7

 

[radios shipping overview]

If they dropped the Tri-navi control on the NEX-6, then it's probably a huge downgrade from the NEX7

I'd prefer discrete controls for aperture, shutter speed, ISO, but I'm fine with the standard customizable NEX controls, too.

Maybe they'll put a Duo-Navi on this one?

 

[tino]

NEX-6 with a new 16MP sensor and an EVF? For under $1k? yes plox

If Sony make a Nex-6 with a 5n sensor (plus) with the N7 EVF, instead of a Nex7 with a lower resolution EVF, it might just win me back to the E mount. Right now I am holding money wait for Fuji and Canon's next announcement before I commit to my new system.

Just give me front and back dials, I don't want to learn N7's control.

 

[xValentine]

^
What's to learn on the tri-navi? aside from the photo viewer, it's the easiest control dials on a camera. It made DLSRs dials look mediocre.

 

[mrklaw]

It,s the f4 non is. The common dilemma is that lens vs your 70-300 is. On the one hand, you have is and extra 100mm. On the other hand you have L and f4. I chose the latter had never regretted it.

Can't say what would be good for sports though. I assume you want speed of focus and wide aperture.

I had the f4 L IS which replaced a 70-300IS. For motorsports I really missed the extra 100mm, and ended up buying a 100-400 L IS which was fantastic. The 70-200 f4 L IS didn't last that long. I found it too short for motorsports, and too long (and slow) for indoors. IS doesn't help with people moving. I tried out a 70-200 f2.8 L but it was *much* heavier and I don't think I could have lived with it. I found the 70-300 focusing was ok - you do have to do a bit of pre-focusing if you have something fast moving, but its not too bad.

Lots of people swear by the 70-200 2.8, but I bet a lot of them use that indoors with flash, or outdoors for portraits. I much prefered the 85 1.8 for indoor use.

 

[tino]

Nikon p&s S800 will run Android 2.3.

Wow, I thought Samsung would be the first to do it. This is very interesting. No more fooling around with CHDK.

 

[xValentine]

So Nikon just released the J2.

Still meh..

 

[giga]

So Nikon just released the J2.

Still meh..

Same sensor size lol.

 

[xValentine]

Same sensor size lol.

I doubt they will abandon the 1" though. They'll probably make another lens mount if they change the sensor size.

And that's how they even got the name lol.

 

[Dead Man]

So. Hi all. I am in the market for an entry level DSLR. Mainly so I can relearn the controls manually, been using p+s for the last 10 years, want to back into good habbits.

But... I know nothing about current DSLRs. Not even if good entry level camera exists, or how much it would cost. So any help is appreciated. I also have some nerve damage which can make my hands tremble at times, so any suggestions for travel tripods are welcome too, and just links to good resources, whatever.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

So. Hi all. I am in the market for an entry level DSLR. Mainly so I can relearn the controls manually, been using p+s for the last 10 years, want to back into good habbits.

But... I know nothing about current DSLRs. Not even if good entry level camera exists, or how much it would cost. So any help is appreciated. I also have some nerve damage which can make my hands tremble at times, so any suggestions for travel tripods are welcome too, and just links to good resources, whatever.

you should hit up this thread maybe, seems to be more active for beginners:



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=486125

 

[Dead Man]

you should hit up this thread maybe, seems to be more active for beginners:



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=486125

Thanks!

 

[kr2t0s]

Been thinking about pulling the trigger on an M8 - what do you guys think of this one:

I am selling Leica M8 black body with the lens Elmarit 28mm f/2.8 (not asph) including a lens hood and a B+W filter. There is little signs of use but hardly visible and overall in very good condition.

The lens needs 2 small screws on outside barrel but is working perfectly. (I just used the lens without fixing it. It works perfect.)

I am not quite sure but the actuation is around 10k - 15k and the both camera and lens perfectly work.

Asking $2400 but might be able to talk him down a bit.

 

[Instigator]

Same sensor size lol.

It wouldn't be very serious of them to introduce one camera system and then drop it in favor of a new one the year after that. This is the path they've chosen, expect them to continue for the next few years.

 

[BlueTsunami]

It wouldn't be very serious of them to introduce one camera system and then drop it in favor of a new one the year after that. This is the path they've chosen, expect them to continue for the next few years.

Its me being hopeful but it would be interesting if they released the J series with such a small sensor so they can introduce a FF mirrorless body down the line. Doing it like Sony or Canon they seem to want to maintain the APS-C status quo where, with Nikon, they could create a bigger differentiation between the entry level soccer mom mirrorless and the true professional ones. As it stands Nikon seems to be the odd one out even though the J series seems to be selling well in Japan?

 

[tino]

I think Canon tricked Nikon into releasing the 1" system. If both C/N release smaller sensor mirrorless systems, they can use their brand dominance to make 1" format the mainstream mirrorless format.

But now that Canon make a APSC sensor sized mirrorless, there is absolutely no advantage of the Nikon 1. I predict Nikon will make thier version of APSC mirrorless system within 2 years and phrase out the 1" system quietly.

 

[Chris R]

Finally bought my camera! Yes it is cheap, but I only plan on using it for a year or two before upgrading to a real camera. Just wanted something simple that will take pictures for me better than my phone can while I'm on vacation this year. Got to try it out when it comes from Amazon next week!

ZS20 for what it is worth, reviews looked decent and the price wasn't too bad either.

 

[xValentine]

Its me being hopeful but it would be interesting if they released the J series with such a small sensor so they can introduce a FF mirrorless body down the line. Doing it like Sony or Canon they seem to want to maintain the APS-C status quo where, with Nikon, they could create a bigger differentiation between the entry level soccer mom mirrorless and the true professional ones. As it stands Nikon seems to be the odd one out even though the J series seems to be selling well in Japan?

I think Nikon Pros are the ones most interested in the Nikon 1 seeing they can make their 500mm into a 1350mm beast. Then add a 2.0x teleconverter to that and you'll got like 2700mm with AF, VR monster.

 

[Pachterballs]

I bought a SONY RX100 due to this thread. Its is amazeballs.

 

[demon]

What a nice little thread I have.


Question- in the "Which are better cameras, cellphones or cameras?" thread, somebody posted this as a good deal on a beginner's DLSR. I've wanted a real camera all these years (have only had P&S cams) and am seriously considering getting this. Is there a better deal on a sub-$400 DSLR out there? Any issues with getting refurbed DSLRs?

http://www.adorama.com/ICAT3KR.html - Canon EOS Rebel T3 Digital SLR Camera with EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens - Refurbished

 

[Fireye]

What a nice little thread I have.


Question- in the "Which are better cameras, cellphones or cameras?" thread, somebody posted this as a good deal on a beginner's DLSR. I've wanted a real camera all these years (have only had P&S cams) and am seriously considering getting this. Is there a better deal on a sub-$400 DSLR out there? Any issues with getting refurbed DSLRs?

http://www.adorama.com/ICAT3KR.html - Canon EOS Rebel T3 Digital SLR Camera with EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens - Refurbished

The T3 is a very nice beginners camera. What you miss out on are metering modes (you won't have a Spot metering), video, MicroFocus Adjustment (per-lens focus tuning), and higher ISO.

None of those things are nescessary in a beginners camera. The one thing you might notice is that it's low-light performance isn't so hot. I'd say go for it, refurbs are usually good enough quality.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

I've been pretty set on getting an OM-D for my work trips. I've discussed this here. But this past week I had my first week-long trip after handling an OM-D in person. And so I really tried to visualize having the camera and how often it'd be small enough to take with me, and small enough to not be a nuisance.

And, honestly, I just don't think it's small enough. It's my own fault for not really thinking things through; but when hitting the streets and grabbing a beer, going to restaruants, hitting the lake, or going to a free outdoor concert, an OM-D would still likely be too big/goofy to look and feel "casual".

So, I think I want to go even smaller. So now I have my eyes on a NEX. But because of the strange ergonomics and small lens selection, I think I'd get a NEX as a compliment to my DSLR, rather than as a substitute. Which means no need to splurge for the 7; I think I'd just get a 5n and a 16mm 2.8. That would likely work just fine; though I wish it was faster.

But then I debate with myself... would it be smart to go with the EOS-M? Then I could share lenses between my "travel camera" and my "big boy camera". I just hate the looks of that thing. I know that's a stupid reason to not buy a camera; but it just looks so plain and "Joe Consumer" to me.

Plus, used (but great condition) NEX 5 + 16 2.9 = ~$600, versus new (only choice) EOS M and 22 f2 = $800. That's a $200 difference for a camera I'll probably only have a couple lenses for.

 

[demon]

The T3 is a very nice beginners camera. What you miss out on are metering modes (you won't have a Spot metering), video, MicroFocus Adjustment (per-lens focus tuning), and higher ISO.

None of those things are nescessary in a beginners camera. The one thing you might notice is that it's low-light performance isn't so hot. I'd say go for it, refurbs are usually good enough quality.

You say it doesn't do video but it looks like this one does HD video. Anything I'm missing here?

Also, I'd like a camera that does low-light photos well, so that definitely makes me re-think getting this camera if true. What low-end DSLR camera does low-light photos better?

 

[RuGalz]

...

Why not just grab the Sony RX100 and call it a day? It seems like a perfect DSLR companion than a m43.

You say it doesn't do video but it looks like this one does HD video. Anything I'm missing here?

Also, I'd like a camera that does low-light photos well, so that definitely makes me re-think getting this camera if true. What low-end DSLR camera does low-light photos better?

Maybe he meant lack of manual controls in video mode. Lower end DSLRs *usually* have very little options when it comes to video.
If you need something that performs well in low light and if ~$400 is your target price range, I'd have to recommend you to look at Pentax K-x or K-r (used) because of their low noise at higher ISO for entry level bodies. Low light performance is typically what higher end cameras offer. Beware that focusing in low light is a whole separate issue -- it can be hard even for high end bodies.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

I've been pretty set on getting an OM-D for my work trips. I've discussed this here. But this past week I had my first week-long trip after handling an OM-D in person. And so I really tried to visualize having the camera and how often it'd be small enough to take with me, and small enough to not be a nuisance.

And, honestly, I just don't think it's small enough. It's my own fault for not really thinking things through; but when hitting the streets and grabbing a beer, going to restaruants, hitting the lake, or going to a free outdoor concert, an OM-D would still likely be too big/goofy to look and feel "casual".

So, I think I want to go even smaller. So now I have my eyes on a NEX. But because of the strange ergonomics and small lens selection, I think I'd get a NEX as a compliment to my DSLR, rather than as a substitute. Which means no need to splurge for the 7; I think I'd just get a 5n and a 16mm 2.8. That would likely work just fine; though I wish it was faster.

But then I debate with myself... would it be smart to go with the EOS-M? Then I could share lenses between my "travel camera" and my "big boy camera". I just hate the looks of that thing. I know that's a stupid reason to not buy a camera; but it just looks so plain and "Joe Consumer" to me.

Plus, used (but great condition) NEX 5 + 16 2.9 = ~$600, versus new (only choice) EOS M and 22 f2 = $800. That's a $200 difference for a camera I'll probably only have a couple lenses for.

If you really want it that small I'd say go with Sony RX100 or cheaper options being a Canon S100 and LX5/7 or the Olympus XZ-1. Then you can keep your full size DSLR for when you want to take truly great shots but those P&S aren't no slouches either.