Tieno said:
Pretty much what I wrote except without the silver lining and with more vitrol.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46914
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46613
The Official Fallout 3 thread of post-apocalyptic proportions!
- Thread starter disappeared
- Start date
Pretty much what I wrote except without the silver lining and with more vitrol.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46914
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46613
Aaron said:
well okay, first off yes I am one of those people who think it's ridiculous to make a non turn-based fallout game.
but besides that:
the SPECIAL system has been gutted to its core. Charisma is useless- I've heard of people going through with 1 CH and still winning Speech checks.
Perception is useless, it only affects when the red bars appear on your compass and at what distance VATS works. Has no effect at spotting or disarming traps.
Skills cap at 100. Traits are gone. Probably a biproduct Bethesda wanting to allow players to change their minds mid-stream, which goes against the entire point of the system. In reality, it just means that most people end up good at a little bit of everything-- especially easy because most of the skills have been cut out or doubled over. Not complaining about that last bit, it's good to trim the fat, but it just adds to the overall imbalance.
Skills don't have much application outside of their specific jobs. Science might as well be called "Computer terminal hacking" because thats all it does besides a few (and I emphasize FEW) dialogue checks.
Here's the biggest one: FLEXIBILITY. Fallout 1 has two goals: find the water chip. stop the mutants. No hand-holding series of "main quest" missions filled with un-killable NPCs. Everyone is expendable and the situation can always change. You can follow a series of directions to find the water chip, or stumble upon it accidentally. You can get captured and taken straight to the mutants' base of operations within the first 20 minutes!
Meanwhile, I'm at the end of Fallout 3 and I can't even
get fawkes to enter the god damn radiation chamber for me. Why? Because that would spoil the nice little ending they've set up for me.
I'd say my biggest gripe is that they obviously put time into making this huge (mostly empty) overworld which could have been better spent on deeper character interaction, THE STORY, etc.
bhlaab said:
I pretty much agree with everything he said but I still love the game. Why?
Probably because I tried not to think of it as a "proper" FO3 sequel.
I do hate the fact that I cannot kill EVERYONE! Also I wanted humor as dark as Fallout 2.
Personally I think as a game it stands out pretty good but flawed.
I hope that somebody attempts to create a story mod similar to the scale of that Fallout 2 restoration project.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Aaron said:
Fallout 1: Defeat the Master!
Fallout 2: Defeat the Enclave!
Fallout 3:
uh, make a water purifier work in one fashion or another
I love Fallout 3, it's my GOTY so far but the main quest is laughably bad
Just finish the game. Went from hating the game to loving it and back to hating it. In beginning with shitty weapons and low skill lvls, shooting stuff was a pain. After lvling up and getting better weapons + skills + perks, the game started to grow on me. Just as I was feeling like a bad ass, the lvl cap hit me and it took fun out of killing / exploring. At that point, I was only around 2/3 through the main quest. Force myself to finish it and the ending only made it worse.
Give it 7.5/10
Give it 7.5/10
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Is there a cap to how much scrap metal you can sell to the guy at the Water Processing Plant in Megaton? He's not showing up there.
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
I've only seen him go as high as 15 but that may be because I only 16 on me at the time.ICallItFutile said:
neoism
Member
bhlaab said:
I know this is only your opinion, but after reading this and the other opinions about this compared to 1 & 2 just makes me really glad I've never played them!
Also a question about fallout 1 if you can kill every NPC in the game, can you basically fuck yourself in to not being able to beat it!
I guess I'm lucky, for me this is fallout 1. I understand you wanted "Fallout 3" but its not (to you maybe). So I'm just glad I have nothing to compare it to! Fallout 3 to me so far is a fucking amazing game, the best Beth's ever made!
Danne-Danger
Member
ElectricBlue187 said:
And, uh, defeat the Enclave again!
It was a bit dissapointing that they re-used a lot of story elements from the previous games, even if they didn't make any sense. The claim by Bethesda (if they actually ever said it, I remember reading something about it... on NMA) that it would be canonical was nothing but bullshit, they basically rebooted the whole thing save for a few references here and there.
Well, IMO, you really should play them if you enjoyed 3. Basically, 1 and 2 is like... sequels to 3 if you compare the size of the world and gamemechanics (excluding the jump to 3D of course) since 3 is so scaled back comparatively, it makes for a nice stepping stone to the real thing.neoism said:
There is no cap, but he is bugged. He disappears all of the sudden. He either falls off the balcony and dies, or falls through the world and you can not talk to him anymore. Ive had it happen a few times now. It doesnt matter if you have given him 5 pieces or 50 when it happens. They know about the issues, but no idea of when a fix is coming for the 360/PS3ICallItFutile said:
disappeared
Banned
More pictures...
ElectricBlue187
Member
Danne-Danger said:
You can't defeat the Enclave OR join them. You can't go against and destory the AI or work with the Enclave commander. The ending is a cop-out for a sequel.
Pudding Tame
Member
Tieno said:
Any valid point against the game quickly gets lost in the incessant whiny-ness of the forum.
I just came from a recent thread where people are still bitching that it's not isometric.
While I agree FO3 falls a little short of capturing the feel of the first two Fallout games. The people at NMA come off as too similar to those die-hard "classic" Battlestar Galactica fans that call the new series GINO.
Okay, these are the points I agree with. I think Charisma is still useful, but Perception has become a pointless stat, the lack of traits feels like lame mass market type move, and the whole 'jack of all trades' you end up as, now that I'm near level 20, does feel very out of place in Fallout. Science is also strangely gimped, especially when it could have had other practical applications.bhlaab said:
Only the main quest really suffers in being too linear, and that's only for the second half. You can skip a chunk by hitting vault 112. The fact you can't enter the citadel early for instance, is a poor design choice. HOWEVER the majority of the other quest have multiple sides and multiple solutions that fit what reminds me of Fallout. I do wish they added more depth to the towns and characters, but Fallout 1+2 didn't really go beyond what's here, so I don't think that fits the context of not being Fallout-ish.
I think the game is closest to Fallout when you stumble on a place with no clear quest, and discover notes and logs about what happened there as you fend of the results of experiments or whatever, putting the pieces together on your own.
disappeared
Banned
Aaron said:
Yep. For me the Fallout games are always about the journey, and in that respect FO3 nails it perfectly.
Lostconfused
Member
ElectricBlue187 said:
Well you can tell the AI to self destruct along with the base and then watch everything blow up.
Danne-Danger
Member
End-game spoilers:ElectricBlue187 said:
What? I got the Eden AI to destroy itself and the Enclave base with two lines of dialogue, after that the Brotherhood said that they wouldn't pose any real threat anymore. THEN I killed their commander with 1 shot to the head, surely now the Brotherhood will utterly destroy the remnants of the Enclave? No?
Also, why doesn't the Brotherhood have access to Vertibirds? I remember giving them the plans for 'em 30 years ago.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Lostconfused said:
I had like 96% speech and I failed the check to
blow up the AI
Lostconfused
Member
You can either use speech or intelligence.ElectricBlue187 said:
Because in the future, nobody cares about the DC area, or maybe its because the brotherhood in that area went a bit of the deep end and is sticking their noses in places that don't belong.Danne-Danger said:
Danne-Danger
Member
That would've probably been the better solution story wise,ElectricBlue187 said:
Eden deciding to off himself for no real reason really was the most nonsensical thing I encountered in F3. The thing must've just been waiting for a reason to die or was planning on doing it anyway, literally like "Oh you think I should kill myself? Well, all right then. Run along now and I'll take care of it.".
You were terribly unlucky.ElectricBlue187 said:
I know it is possible to
to get the AI to blow itself up
it committed digital suicide after some persuasion
There is logic in it. The player usedDanne-Danger said:
circular logic to trap the AI in a loop, which demonstrates the danger of how easy it is to manipulate non-sentient beings into serving one's interests. It isn't the best scene to highlight the perils of relying on AI, nor is it the best scene to showcase the consequences of allowing AI to live with humans, but there is a certain logic to it.
On the subject of Scrap Metal, I find it more useful to give 5 of them to Winthrop@ the Underworld than to give 1 for 10 caps to Walter. Although Walter has never bugged in both my games (he didn't have much chance to be bugged in my evil character's file), I find Rad-X and RadAway to be more valuable than other forms of rewards due to its mild scarcity. Exp is easy to obtain and Karma is easy to manipulate.
buhmachine
Banned
the graphics look pretty yucky in this game
sennin said:
What? I just
told him that it's no good if the enclave's leaders can't get along. He went "Oh yeah, I hadn't thought about that" and blew up.
That sequence was just lame pandering.
Don't try to recreate the whole "Master" thing if you can't do it right.
I agree! But they are still comparatively shallow.
Plus, most of the bonus areas, including the extra vaults, are pointless areas filled with loot for loots sake, something that especially doesn't work in an endgame scenario. these areas need a lot more story-- with quests. The scattered computer logs in these areas only go so far, you know it's not building to any sort of climax or resolution, it's just this sort of vapor of backstory floating about. Superfluous areas work in Elder Scrolls, not in Fallout.
Danne-Danger
Member
Wait,sennin said:
then what was the reason for it going rogue and turning against the cornel in the first place? Because the cornel was acting on his own accord? I can't remember. Anyway, I assumed that the AI had become self-aware, and as we all know an AI with a conscience is an AI afraid of death. HAL for example would essentially lie (or reprogram) to himself that he wasn't doing anything wrong and was going by the mission parameters because he didn't want to be unplugged, you're telling me that Eden wasn't a sentient AI? That would explain it, I guess, though you'd think they'd add a failsafe to prevent him from destroying the base.
Still think it was a bit hasty though, they've could've done a lot more interesting things with that.
cann3dheat
Member
Is there anyway to get into
after you leave it?
Raven Rock
Danne-Danger said:Wait,then what was the reason for it going rogue and turning against the cornel in the first place? Because the cornel was acting on his own accord? I can't remember. Anyway, I assumed that the AI had become self-aware, and as we all know an AI with a conscience is an AI afraid of death. HAL for example would essentially lie (or reprogram) to himself that he wasn't doing anything wrong and was going by the mission parameters because he didn't want to be unplugged, you're telling me that Eden wasn't a sentient AI? That would explain it, I guess, though you'd think they'd add a failsafe to prevent him from destroying the base.
Still think it was a bit hasty though, they've could've done a lot more interesting things with that.
Really, I don't think they put anywhere near as much thought into it as you just did.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
bhlaab said:
The game would be a bit shit if it wasn't for the license to be honest, there's still enough fallouty goodness poking through to make it a pretty decent game.
At the end of the day, they're only games after all and not worth getting too upset or pissed off over. Unless your Tim Cain or Leonard boyarsky that is.
Yeah, i think it's about on par with Tactics, and like tactics it's based far enough away from where fallout 1 and 2 were based so as not to completely rape the setting. :lol
?
Why would you not want to play fantastic games?
Danne-Danger said:Wait,then what was the reason for it going rogue and turning against the cornel in the first place? Because the cornel was acting on his own accord? I can't remember. Anyway, I assumed that the AI had become self-aware, and as we all know an AI with a conscience is an AI afraid of death. HAL for example would essentially lie (or reprogram) to himself that he wasn't doing anything wrong and was going by the mission parameters because he didn't want to be unplugged, you're telling me that Eden wasn't a sentient AI? That would explain it, I guess, though you'd think they'd add a failsafe to prevent him from destroying the base.
Still think it was a bit hasty though, they've could've done a lot more interesting things with that.
I, completely, agree.
They really should have drawn-out the whole Raven Rock incarceration. It was just too quickly paced. I was hoping for more narrative and less action. All I know is that when I reached Eden... I didn't have a 'shock' moment. It was like, "oh, a computer." They should of done it differently.
Still, even with its flaws... FO3 is my GOTY. I loved it just as much as FO 1 and 2.
'Meh' ending aside... the journey was amazing.
Danne-Danger
Member
I think that gives Fallout 1+2 a little too much credit. They really weren't that much more developed, and the characters tended to be quirky to make up for being relatively shallow. I also think if the originals were remade in the F3 engine, they would seem more shallow because you're that much closer to the game, and the love for the originals is partly the way they work in someone's imagination than what's strictly in the game.bhlaab said:
Overall, I say F3 is a worthy sequel, even if the linear nature of the main plot is complete shit, with a weak ending that goes against the spirit of the majority of the other quests in the game.
Aaron said:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to compare Fallout to a great work of literature. I'm just saying that there are more dialogue threads, more ways to complete tasks, more open-ended, and the dialogue trees varied wildly depending on your character.
In Fo3 I never got the feeling that I was getting more out of a conversation by having better stats. Speech was used ONLY as a utility and Intelligence never caused a massive diversion, just "Wow, I'm surprised you get it!" responses. Hell, insulting everyone you come across doesn't have repurcussions! They just sort of go "Grrrrr!! Youu!! Anyway, that job I was talking about..."
Danne-Danger
Member
Jswanko said:
It's called Oasis or something, it's in the mid-northern area, it's hidden away in the mountains though, so you might need to look around a bit.
There are these sort of responses in the game, such as insulting the sheriff leading to a fight, or having a high strength letting you intimidate people with a dialogue choice, but maybe there just wasn't enough of them. I think it's more an issue of scale and just the sheer time it would take to make all these choices, rather than missing the spirit. I don't remember it varying that much in Fallout, aside from the low IQ barely able to speak stuff, which was funny, but I don't really miss it.bhlaab said:
Quagm1r3 said:
Yes, but you need to have additional copies of the same item. So if you want to repair a Combat Shotgun for example, you need to find other Shotguns before you can do it. And you don't need a work bench for that, you do it in the Pip-Boy menu.
The work bench is only used to build stuff from schematics.
Tieno
Member
I've taken it upon myself to wander around the wasteland a bit and get in contact with nature and mah bears. I stumble on some supermutants and see a pair of beautiful bears in the distance, run towards them and as they see me they come running towards me for affection, they see that those supermutants are attacking me and start sandwiching them one by one. Few hauls and they're dead. Then comes a behemoth who kills mah beautiful bears after they scratched him a bit. Managed to kill him in the end though, but my bears are dead 
Those behemoths do have a lot of loot on them.
Those behemoths do have a lot of loot on them.and the condition you can repair a weapon to is determined by your repair skill.BeeDog said:
Danne-Danger
Member
I disagree with that, think of the Megaton mission, after you've been contacted by Burke, if you approach the Sheriff and tell him about it you'll go to bust him up and if you didn't intervene the Sheriff would get shot in the back (mainly for turning his back and walking away, without even searching Burke for a weapon, some sheriff.Aaron said:
). That really felt like an isolated incident in F3 to me where a lot of the time I'd think of an alternative way to solve a situation but the game wouldn't give me the option. Fallout 1 and 2 did that to a greater extent IMO, offering multiple ways to deal with quests, even Deus Ex (and Invisible War, though mostly through extensive use of ventilation systems) had a lot more freedom in how you handled any given situation.I may just be rosetinting, I haven't played 1 in a long time, but I am currently replaying 2 back-to-back with 3, and the quests just seem like theyre more thought-out.
AgentOtaku
Member
Add me to the list of people who are glad they never really played Fallout1 and 2 (I played 1 for about 30 minutes) and are allowed to enjoy Fallout 3 for what it is...
My gripes, as I've said before, is how it feels like Oblivion creeping through too often
Still love the game though!
My gripes, as I've said before, is how it feels like Oblivion creeping through too often
Still love the game though!
I'm finding it very rare in quests in F3 that there aren't multiple alternatives. For example, shoot 'em in the head:Danne-Danger said:I disagree with that, think of the Megaton mission, after you've been contacted by Burke, if you approach the Sheriff and tell him about it you'll go to bust him up and if you didn't intervene the Sheriff would get shot in the back (mainly for turning his back and walking away, without even searching Burke for a weapon, some sheriff.
crowley tells you to kill four people and get keys from three. There's always an option to avoid killing, plus pickpocketing works. They also hint at what these keys are for, so you can use them without involving crowley, or hand them over and later follow him. Or take up Tenpenny's offer to kill Crowley. How isn't this offering alternatives?
AgentOtaku said:
Fallout 1 and 2 weren't even that great. Fallout 2 was fucking stupid at how hard it was, the tutorial was harder than any part of FO3.
Fallout fanboys want what they can't have. Even if the same developers made Fallout 3 now, do you really think it would be turn based and like the other 2? Not even close. It would be dumbed down as well.
Danne-Danger
Member
Yeah now that you mention it that is another good one,Aaron said:
though when I confronted Crowley about it he attacked me, along with the rest of the Underworld... But yeah that is a good one, you'd also get more information about Crowley from talking to the townsfolk. I didn't get the Tenpenny part since the Ghouls had whiped him out already. It is one of the grander quests though (leading to the best loot in the game), up there with the Survival Guide, which is another one, even though it tells you all the solutions from the get-go (apart from the lying bit).
I'll have to ponder this one for a while.