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The Official Halo 3 Thread

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ferrex said:
Never admit it? I thought we'd already said as much.

Online coop was supposed to be in Halo 2, but it was cut very late in the process. That's one of the reasons we we're so damn coy about announcing it in Halo 3--we wanted to wait until it was a sure thing.

That's not why the levels were so linear, though. That was more due to narrative requirements and, to no small degree, lack of time.

Can you imagine the shitstorm if Bungie has announced co-op for Halo 2 and then failed to deliver?

Bungie headquarters would have been napalmed with Molotov cocktails, only instead of liquor it would have been little flaming Stridex pads.
 
urk said:
And the ending was

:lol Brilliantly put, urk, brilliantly put.
brilliant.jpg
 
NeXuSDK said:
Ahh, nothing like a cup of truth and honesty in the morning...

You should have provided a Reviewer's Guide with Halo 2. Seems to work for Factor 5...
Yeah, 'cause Halo 2 got such shitty reviews.

urk said:
And the ending was
Can't wait for your continuation of this post in the year 2010.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Fourteen. As far as I'm concerned, Halo 3 comes out late on a Monday night. :D

(And yes I'm counting now.)

I hop this doesn't curse anything, but I'm very surprised that we haven't had a leak from manufacture. Looking back at HBO's archives, Halo 2 went gold on October 11th and it leaked on the [URL="http://halo.bungie.org/news.html?item=10847"]14th. [/URL]Halo 3 hit gold on the 29th of last month, and two weeks out we're still okay. I'm sure it's inevitable, but every day that goes by without the leak is a good day in my book. MS clearly stepped up their security.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they hired security to actually watch the game be manufactured. I bet that's rarely done (if it ever has) but I wouldn't put it past Microsoft in this case.
 
urk said:
I enjoy Halo's campaign more than it's sequel, but I'm fully willing to admit that it's mainly out of nostalgic reasons, though I will say I didn't like a lot of the tuning most of the weapon set underwent. And I'm not talking about the pistol, but stuff like grenades and the AR/SMG swap.

Halo 2's music, aside from the few instances of pop rock, was much improved and the story was far more complex and fleshed out.

Brutes did indeed suck.

And the ending was

I don't mind a cliffhanger ending but IMO a story still needs to follow a three act structure and Halo 2's structure was all over the place.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Fourteen. As far as I'm concerned, Halo 3 comes out late on a Monday night. :D

(And yes I'm counting now.)

I hope this doesn't curse anything, but I'm very surprised that we haven't had a leak from manufacture. Looking back at HBO's archives, Halo 2 went gold on October 11th and it leaked on the [URL="http://halo.bungie.org/news.html?item=10847"]14th. [/URL]Halo 3 hit gold on the 29th of last month, and two weeks out we're still okay. I'm sure it's inevitable, but every day that goes by without the leak is a good day in my book. MS clearly stepped up their security.
14 days 9 hours and 48 minutes for the update :)
 
GhaleonEB said:
MS clearly stepped up their security.

From earlier in the thread a retail box employee noted that the DM's were going to be hitting stores to make sure the allotments had not been tampered with prior to launch. I assume this same mentality would be used at manufacture and assembly. Management and supervision sending word that screwing with the product will not be tolerated.

The Eye of Redmond is all seeing.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Fourteen. As far as I'm concerned, Halo 3 comes out late on a Monday night. :D

(And yes I'm counting now.)

I hope this doesn't curse anything, but I'm very surprised that we haven't had a leak from manufacture. Looking back at HBO's archives, Halo 2 went gold on October 11th and it leaked on the [URL="http://halo.bungie.org/news.html?item=10847"]14th. [/URL]Halo 3 hit gold on the 29th of last month, and two weeks out we're still okay. I'm sure it's inevitable, but every day that goes by without the leak is a good day in my book. MS clearly stepped up their security.

I'm sure security measures have been doubled this time around. We'll see leaks by the end of this week or early next week when the game starts shipping to stores.
 
PaulRTC said:
Given the embargo, extremely unlikely. It was brought up here, there's nothing concrete.

Yeah, I understand that, but on the last page Stinkles said that it was coming Wednesday. I don't know if he was joking because of the posts a few pages back or if he was being genuine.
 
Eric WK said:
Yeah, I understand that, but on the last page Stinkles said that it was coming Wednesday. I don't know if he was joking because of the posts a few pages back or if he was being genuine.
I can't verify because IGN is blocked at work, but I do remember Hil teasing the same thing on IGN's boards. o_O
 
ferrex said:
Never admit it? I thought we'd already said as much.
Wording was wrong there...

I meant that you guys would never admit that level design was being taken into consideration with the perils of cooperative campaign net code in mind.

In other words, I assumed that the reason some of the levels were so narrow and restrained had to do with you guys wanting cooperative play to work on Xbox Live since players being a great distance from each other is such a strain - particularly on the first console.

But alas, it appears that I was wrong.
 
Mr Vociferous said:
Wording was wrong there...

I meant that you guys would never admit that level design was being taken into consideration with the perils of cooperative campaign net code in mind.

In other words, I assumed that the reason some of the levels were so narrow and restrained had to do with you guys wanting cooperative play to work on Xbox Live since players being a great distance from each other is such a strain - particularly on the first console.

But alas, it appears that I was wrong.

I'm pretty sure the reason for the narrow and restrained levels was that they had to scrap most of their geometry. No time = hallway crawl.
 
Eric WK said:
Yeah, I understand that, but on the last page Stinkles said that it was coming Wednesday. I don't know if he was joking because of the posts a few pages back or if he was being genuine.
I thought you probably did, just making sure. I think Stinkles's post was a jokepost, but you never can tell for sure. :P
 
DrBo42 said:
I'm pretty sure the reason for the narrow and restrained levels was that they had to scrap most of their geometry. No time = hallway crawl.
The architect of The Forge has already spoken. Development time was the chief culprit.
 
Im really looking to play this game in legendary, so I need 3 more people to play coop online just so we can all aww at the amazingness of this game and enjoy it.
My gamertag is: ShadeNFPA
Those who are getting the game the day it comes out and will play coop add me.
 
SixStringPsycho said:
Im really looking to play this game in legendary, so I need 3 more people to play coop online just so we can all aww at the amazingness of this game and enjoy it.
My gamertag is: ShadeNFPA
Those who are getting the game the day it comes out and will play coop add me.

I went through Halo 2 the first time alone on Legendary. Trust me when I say it's something you don't want to do for a first time through. Especially when there's snipers in the game with unforgivable aim. You'll enjoy the game less if you do this, you have been warned.
 
SixStringPsycho said:
Im really looking to play this game in legendary, so I need 3 more people to play coop online just so we can all aww at the amazingness of this game and enjoy it.
My gamertag is: ShadeNFPA
Those who are getting the game the day it comes out and will play coop add me.

There's a link to the gamertag thread in the opening post. ;)
 
urk said:
There's a link to the gamertag thread in the opening post. ;)
I used bold and everything.

Speaking of which, I'll be updating that thread again tonight. The first update was epic, but it's more manageable now in small chunks.
 
DrBo42 said:
I went through Halo 2 the first time alone on Legendary. Trust me when I say it's something you don't want to do for a first time through. Especially when there's snipers in the game with unforgivable aim. You'll enjoy the game less if you do this, you have been warned.

I've been struggling with this. On a difficulty scale of 1-10, I find Legendary on Halo 2 to be about a 9... And I find Heroic to be about a 4. It really sucks, actually. I wish there was something in between, especially for casual run throughs...

But then again, a lot of the frustratingly difficult moments in H2 Legendary comes from snipers, which are apparently less cheap in H3. Maybe that'll tip the balance more towards the fun side of things.
 
professor_t said:
Can you imagine the shitstorm if Bungie has announced co-op for Halo 2 and then failed to deliver?

Bungie headquarters would have been napalmed with Molotov cocktails, only instead of liquor it would have been little flaming Stridex pads.


LOL


H:CE still reins supreme to me. It felt like H2 just need a little more time to cook before it was really ready.

I liked many of the improvements in H2, but the original is the one I play co-op whenever I have a willing participant.

I wonder how Bungie got into the position of being so cramped for H2 dev time. It seems that there was plenty of time between the first and second games to flesh out a complete game, but perhaps there was more going on behind the scenes than we puny consumers were privy to.

Any good articles out there on H2's development time line, and how they ended up in such a crunch in the first place?
 
MoNuckah said:
Any good articles out there on H2's development time line, and how they ended up in such a crunch in the first place?
The "Making Of" DVD, if you have it, does a good job of conveying the feel of that crunch. But if anyone has any articles, I'd love to see them.
 
MoNuckah said:
LOL


H:CE still reins supreme to me. It felt like H2 just need a little more time to cook before it was really ready.

I liked many of the improvements in H2, but the original is the one I play co-op whenever I have a willing participant.

I wonder how Bungie got into the position of being so cramped for H2 dev time. It seems that there was plenty of time between the first and second games to flesh out a complete game, but perhaps there was more going on behind the scenes than we puny consumers were privy to.

Any good articles out there on H2's development time line, and how they ended up in such a crunch in the first place?

Most of the answers are on the Collectors Edition DVD. Basicallly it went like this

Jones and Staten write Story
Tech demo developed for the X02 (I think) unvieling
E3 2003 demo developed

After E3 2003 what was shown basically wasn't fun, bungie goes back to the drawing board on a lot of what is Halo 2. Major gameplay features, like the ability to run and melee combos are scratched (le sad). Pretty much all of the levels were scrapped at this point also.

Basically we saw the growing pains of a small, tigh knit group of developers expanding exponentially in size. There wasn't enough communication or collabaration to make a really great game when it started.

Reading the bungie posts you get the impression that not much has changed about the team, but how the structure themselves and their goals has improved DRAMATICALLY.

EDIT: Coco, check out the edge with the halo cover if you can find it. They talk about the lack of communication and how levels came out totally inconsistent.
 
electricpirate said:
Most of the answers are on the Collectors Edition DVD. Basicallly it went like this


Basically we saw the growing pains of a small, tigh knit group of developers expanding exponentially in size. There wasn't enough communication or collabaration to make a really great game when it started.

Reading the bungie posts you get the impression that not much has changed about the team, but how the structure themselves and their goals has improved DRAMATICALLY.

EDIT: Coco, check out the edge with the halo cover if you can find it. They talk about the lack of communication and how levels came out totally inconsistent.


That makes sense. Thanks for the answer. I haven't watched the bonus disk before.

Many of our vendors where I work have gone through growing pains like that. Its a difficult process to grow suddenly, it takes more planning than 'being successful' to negotiate rapid transformation properly.

The new and improved cohesion at Bungie shows, H3 is shaping up to be covered in hot buttery Victory Sauce.
 
Cocopjojo said:
The "Making Of" DVD, if you have it, does a good job of conveying the feel of that crunch. But if anyone has any articles, I'd love to see them.

The wired article in the OP also touches on it.

Bill Gates and CEO Steve Ballmer began pushing hard for a sequel.

The pressure to deliver nearly destroyed Bungie. When it began making the original Halo, the design team consisted of 10 people. They could all sit in a single room and communicate by yelling over their shoulders or peering at each other's cool creations onscreen. To make Halo 2, the company ballooned to more than 60. Separate teams formed to design each level of the game, but they didn't coordinate their efforts: When project leaders assembled the pieces for the first time, they discovered that the story was incomprehensible and the game whipsawed from too easy to nearly impossible.

"It was a disaster in the game-story campaign," admits Harold Ryan, the studio manager. "We looked around the room going, 'I don't want to play this. I don't want to make this.'" They threw out 80 percent of the work they'd done and started over. But they now had barely a year and a half to reconstruct the entire game.

Luckily, Bungie had a secret weapon. Because games were becoming a new focus for Microsoft, the company had built a dedicated usability lab for stress-testing its titles. Bungie tapped Pagulayan, a recent PhD graduate in experimental psychology from the University of Cincinnati, to refine Halo 2 in the facility. Pagulayan's team quickly went to work building tools for extracting gameplay data, including the location of each player and when and where they fired weapons, rode vehicles, killed aliens, and died. They ran weekly tests, analyzing 2,300 hours of play by 400 gamers in under two months. Over and over again, they found snags — a mutant alien that was far too powerful, a lava pit that too many players fell into.

But the time constraints were daunting, and the lab wasn't able to catch everything. In the end, Halo 2 was a less complex, less satisfying game than the first Halo. In the original, players had three equally powerful ways to attack: gun, grenade, or punch attack — the "golden tripod," as Jamie Griesemer, Bungie's head of gameplay design, dubbed it. Like a game of rock-paper-scissors, part of the fun was frantically deciding which method would work best. But in Halo 2, the designers decided to let players wield two guns, an option so overpowering that players rarely used any other form of attack. Perhaps worst of all, Bungie's team didn't have time to finish their story. Halo 2 ended with Master Chief announcing that he's returning to Earth and "finishing this fight" against the alien force. Then... nothing. The credits roll. It was as if the coders had simply turned off their computers and walked away. In public, Bungie employees put on a brave face, but privately they were chagrined. "Just as the game was going out the door, everybody was kind of like, Holy shit — this is not what we like here," recalls Brian Jarrard, Bungie's head of community relations.
 
electricpirate said:
EDIT: Coco, check out the edge with the halo cover if you can find it. They talk about the lack of communication and how levels came out totally inconsistent.

Are you sure that wasn't in the Wired cover article? It had the exact same info. (Awesome article, btw. Just read it about a week ago.)

Edit: Beaten, with text and all!
 
electricpirate said:
EDIT: Coco, check out the edge with the halo cover if you can find it. They talk about the lack of communication and how levels came out totally inconsistent.

They also site the near complete lack of polish time at the end of the development cycle due to time constraints.

It seems Halo 3's cycle was managed as near flawlessly as could be, and from interviews it appears that Bungie has enjoyed the opposite effect this time around: plenty of time to go in with a jeweler's eye and make all the tiny tweaks and adjustments they need to in order to get their gem to sparkle like a thousand little pink shards.

But we caught the Brutezone Bug. Remember that, kids. We played our role in the development cycle too.
 
I tell ya, putting your mind elsewhere is the way to go. Lately, I haven't been around the internet too often. I return and it's like, "omgHalo3in15days!"

Seriously, it seems like only yesterday everyone was groaning at the thought of having to wait a month or so.

urk said:
But we caught the Brutezone Bug. Remember that, kids. We played our role in the development cycle too.

Time will be spent attempting to recreate.
 
Justin said:
What was the brutezone bug again? I missed that whole saga.

me too. =[ I did a quick google search, and the only thing that came up were GAF threads. :lol
 
I know this sounds conspicuous, but my manager at work heard from his friend from Gamestop, that there isn't going to be enough Legendary editions to go around to those that pre-ordered them (kinda like what happened at the beginning with the PS3). Any truth to these rumors?
 
omg.kittens said:
me too. =[ I did a quick google search, and the only thing that came up were GAF threads. :lol

Do not allow your eyes to be violated in the way those whose eyes unfortunate enough to meet the Brutezone were.

Edit: Why in God's name did I feel compelled to click that link!! Why...
 
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