CrashPrime
Member
For work out and running I'd go with in ear monitors. Sony MDR-ex800st would be my picks for money. Full headphones aren't really for work out purposes, at least in my life.
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The Official Headphone Thread 2.5: We're Making WAVs and Catching FLAC
- Thread starter HiResDes
- Start date
For work out and running I'd go with in ear monitors. Sony MDR-ex800st would be my picks for money. Full headphones aren't really for work out purposes, at least in my life.
Xander51
Member
I completely agree with CrashPrime. Smushroomed, you mentioned you have a big head. I do too. The Beats Studio Wireless will feel like a vice. Beats headphones have legendarily high clamping force. Won't be comfy at all. Also, over ear headphones and sweat are generally a bad combination. The sweat will just pool up near your ears. So IEM's are much much better for working out. In my opinion anyway.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
My Vali 2 came today. Box and layout was simple but nice. Like how they secured the amp in there. I was worried about breaking something when putting the tube in lol.
Unfortunately I can't get my Creative X-FI Titanium HD to work. I bought the RCA cables, set everything up, but no sound. I was pretty sure it supported RCA out (the interchange terms between coaxial and S/Pdif confuse me), but now I'm thinking either the drivers are messed up even after I've tried everything to fix it or it doesn't support this anyways (which is weird and sucky but I guess maybe not surprising?). I've never seen claims that it couldn't do this output until when searching for a fix to my problem I found this mention
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/sound-blaster-x-fi-titanium-hd-review,3.html
I don't know if this is verified true, but it isn't looking good. The sound card has a decent built in DAC and I wanted to be able to use the CMSS-3D. Damn, I didn't want to spend anymore money
I guess if it literally can't work I have three options, either buy a sound card that supports coaxial S/Pdif output, a DAC with USB like the Modi 2 and just forget the sound card and 3D audio or get a DAC with optical like the Modi 2 Uber.
Unfortunately I can't get my Creative X-FI Titanium HD to work. I bought the RCA cables, set everything up, but no sound. I was pretty sure it supported RCA out (the interchange terms between coaxial and S/Pdif confuse me), but now I'm thinking either the drivers are messed up even after I've tried everything to fix it or it doesn't support this anyways (which is weird and sucky but I guess maybe not surprising?). I've never seen claims that it couldn't do this output until when searching for a fix to my problem I found this mention
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/sound-blaster-x-fi-titanium-hd-review,3.html
I don't know if this is verified true, but it isn't looking good. The sound card has a decent built in DAC and I wanted to be able to use the CMSS-3D. Damn, I didn't want to spend anymore money
I guess if it literally can't work I have three options, either buy a sound card that supports coaxial S/Pdif output, a DAC with USB like the Modi 2 and just forget the sound card and 3D audio or get a DAC with optical like the Modi 2 Uber.
SolarMystic
Member
Damn, I couldn't find any info in the Music Bee forums either. Guess I'll have to make an account and ask there.
Yeah, that. Shitty creative drivers won't stop the RCA from working. I've got my vali 2 on my titanium hd.
how did I miss this drop.
You can get it from the manufacturer's website. It's $30 more expensive though (still way, way cheaper than getting an equivalent setup from JDS Labs, though).
I got mine from there and received it this week. Haven't had much listening time with it but I'm pleased so far.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Should get the jds the element though.
Dat big knob. I love it.
Dat big knob. I love it.
By the way, I have a couple of kinda off topic questions, but there's no speaker thread on this forum so I figured this would still be the best place to ask.
I'm currently thinking of getting good studio monitors for my desktop (for everything, movies, music, games, videos, etc). I'm eyeing the Genelec 8010s:
I have tinnitus in my right ear and using headphones for too long really makes it worse (even though I'm very cautious about the volume level), whereas I don't have the issue with speakers. I just finished watching a movie (A Time to Kill) and the voices were barely audible (and there wasn't much loud action either), yet the ringing has gotten pretty intense and will take a couple hours to die down
So anyway, since the ODAC is supposed to be transparent I don't think there's a need for a new DAC for the studio monitors.
The only thing I'm a bit unsure about is the volume control for the monitors. The 8010 only have balanced XLR inputs but the user manual says using unbalanced RCA->XLR cables is fine too. So I'm thinking I could use 2 of those cables to hook them up to the ODAC.
Now, I'm just uncertain about the volume control aspect. I'd like to have a dial (it's more practical than software control and it's probably safer too — less risk of leaving the volume on max by accident) so I did a bit of research and didn't find much at a reasonable price point. The two main options I found were:
Schiit Sys (USD50):
TC Electronics Level Pilot:
Both options have channel imbalance at low listening volumes, which sucks but is apparently very hard to avoid on """cheap""" potentiometers ($100 is still a fair bit of money)... But that can probably be solved by a combination of software volume control and changing the input sensitivity of the monitors to avoid having to put the dial too far down.
Any thoughts about the options or any other product that would be worth looking at to control the volume? Or actually, is this even going to work? I hope I didn't misinterpret the information I read haha.
Cheers!
I'm currently thinking of getting good studio monitors for my desktop (for everything, movies, music, games, videos, etc). I'm eyeing the Genelec 8010s:
They are apparently very good from reviews and the form factor would be perfect for my desk... They are also right at the very limit of what I'd consider sane to spend on speakers haha.
I have tinnitus in my right ear and using headphones for too long really makes it worse (even though I'm very cautious about the volume level), whereas I don't have the issue with speakers. I just finished watching a movie (A Time to Kill) and the voices were barely audible (and there wasn't much loud action either), yet the ringing has gotten pretty intense and will take a couple hours to die down
So anyway, since the ODAC is supposed to be transparent I don't think there's a need for a new DAC for the studio monitors.
The only thing I'm a bit unsure about is the volume control for the monitors. The 8010 only have balanced XLR inputs but the user manual says using unbalanced RCA->XLR cables is fine too. So I'm thinking I could use 2 of those cables to hook them up to the ODAC.
Now, I'm just uncertain about the volume control aspect. I'd like to have a dial (it's more practical than software control and it's probably safer too — less risk of leaving the volume on max by accident) so I did a bit of research and didn't find much at a reasonable price point. The two main options I found were:
Schiit Sys (USD50):
Would be great if it weren't for Schiit's insane international shipping fees ($50 for tracked shipping). I'd use RCA cables to connect it to the ODAC and RCA->XLR cables to the monitors.
TC Electronics Level Pilot:
Available locally for NZD139 (which is still more than what I'd like to pay for a potentiometer, but it's less expensive than the Sys because of that damn shipping). There are tons of user reviews out there, and most people seem to love it — that is, only until it goes bad after around 2 years of usage —. I'd use RCA->XLR cables to connect it to the ODAC and XLR cables to the monitors.
Both options have channel imbalance at low listening volumes, which sucks but is apparently very hard to avoid on """cheap""" potentiometers ($100 is still a fair bit of money)... But that can probably be solved by a combination of software volume control and changing the input sensitivity of the monitors to avoid having to put the dial too far down.
Any thoughts about the options or any other product that would be worth looking at to control the volume? Or actually, is this even going to work? I hope I didn't misinterpret the information I read haha.
Cheers!
Chittagong
Gold Member
Using a Schiit Magni is fine for Genelec volume in my opinion. You don't need anything beefier, since Genelec's are active speakers with their own amplification. In fact, another option is to just hook them to a Modi and adjust volume on your computer.
Instead of amp, I'd invest in going up to 8030s, or at the very least, 8020s. I think 8010s are too small for nearly anything.
And yeah you just hook Genelecs up with an RCA cable, and have a RCA-XLR adapter in the end.
Instead of amp, I'd invest in going up to 8030s, or at the very least, 8020s. I think 8010s are too small for nearly anything.
And yeah you just hook Genelecs up with an RCA cable, and have a RCA-XLR adapter in the end.
New STAX [replacement for SRS-2170 - Edit: perhaps not] announced.
http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=23008
SR-L300 and SRS-3100.
Looks a bit more expensive than the SRS-2170 (48,000 yen v 65,000 yen)
It's part of the Advanced-Lambda series (same as SR-L700 and SR-L500) so perhaps there may be a SR-L200 as well that will be cheaper.
http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=23008
SR-L300 and SRS-3100.
Looks a bit more expensive than the SRS-2170 (48,000 yen v 65,000 yen)
It's part of the Advanced-Lambda series (same as SR-L700 and SR-L500) so perhaps there may be a SR-L200 as well that will be cheaper.
Kudo
Member
Thanks man, this came in lot cheaper for me than the Massdrop one as I don't have to pay customs for it.
Ordered, how long did it take for yours to arrive?
Nero's Neptune
Member
Anyone else use the Schiit Modi 2 out of PS4 through USB? For whatever reason, the channels are reversed, and I'm wondering if anyone else had had that problem, and if it can be fixed.
I've put it into "advanced" mode, but it doesn't get picked up by the PS4.
I guess I could always just reverse the RCA cables, but I'd rather not have to switch back and forth every time I hook it back up to my computer.
I've put it into "advanced" mode, but it doesn't get picked up by the PS4.
I guess I could always just reverse the RCA cables, but I'd rather not have to switch back and forth every time I hook it back up to my computer.
SolarMystic
Member
I run mine through optical and no issues like that. Email Schiit, they are usually very helpful and respond fast.
Smushroomed
Banned
thanks guys, you saved me a bunch of cash.
Thanks for the reply! Sadly I have an O2+ODAC, the Magni Uber's preamp would have been good for volume control though.
When you say the 8010s are too small, do you mean they won't be able to produce a decent volume (they'd be placed in a small 2.6m x 2.9m / 8'6" x 9'6" room) or that the bass won't be deep enough (I checked and the -3dB point for the 8020 and M030 are 8 and 16Hz lower respectively, but I'm not sure what that'd sound like in real life)? Or is it just that the sound quality suffer with small monitors?
I am asking because the price step up is quite significant (the 8030 are way, way out of my price range so I didn't include them):
I'm open to the idea if the product is significantly better, but I'd have to wait another month to get one of those and it'd delay some of the other purchases I want to make. And sadly importing won't be any cheaper because the import fees are very large above $400.
You're welcome! It took 2 and a half weeks but I live in NZ so it'll probably be a lot faster if you live in the EU.
Xander51
Member
Happy to help! As far as IEM's for working out go, I actually tend to prefer the non-sealing ones, like the Bose Soundsport series or whatever it's called, so that you can still hear the outside. Many companies make sweatproof models, too!
The Genelec 8010 are for people who need the small size. They didn't really sound like they were worth the money, without the matching Genelec 5040 subwoofer, when I trialed them at Stereophile, a local Hi-Fi store in Melbourne. I can't find any specs or measurements but I feel they have a -3dB point of like 80hz as they integrated pretty well with any decent subwoofer without any serious bass management adjustments.
So they can definitely fill a small room with sound but it will sound especially thin without a dedicated subwoofer. And subwoofers are often more trouble than benefit in small rooms as placement is essential if you don't want them to sound like a waste of money and space. If you're set with the Genelecs (and they are very well designed speakers), Chittagong is 100% right that you should not accept anything less than the 8020s though I still think they're a pricey for only a 4" woofer.
What are your store options in New Zealand? Might be worth it to just go into a store, try everything they have, and leave with something you like. Just keep in mind that most active speakers have tone controls so make sure you zero them before auditioning and some may have audible tweeter hiss when idle that may or may not be annoying to you.
I'm not too fond of the Genelecs, at least the 80xx. Yes, they are everywhere but they are mostly bright sounding. Good for finding errors but nothing I'd ever want to do a real mix on or simply listen to music with. Can't say anything about the 030s.Thanks for the reply! Sadly I have an O2+ODAC, the Magni Uber's preamp would have been good for volume control though.
When you say the 8010s are too small, do you mean they won't be able to produce a decent volume (they'd be placed in a small 2.6m x 2.9m / 8'6" x 9'6" room) or that the bass won't be deep enough (I checked and the -3dB point for the 8020 and M030 are 8 and 16Hz lower respectively, but I'm not sure what that'd sound like in real life)? Or is it just that the sound quality suffer with small monitors?
I am asking because the price step up is quite significant (the 8030 are way, way out of my price range so I didn't include them):
I'm open to the idea if the product is significantly better, but I'd have to wait another month to get one of those and it'd delay some of the other purchases I want to make. And sadly importing won't be any cheaper because the import fees are very large above $400.
You're welcome! It took 2 and a half weeks but I live in NZ so it'll probably be a lot faster if you live in the EU.
I'd personally go with Neumann KH 120 A, in nearfield they are simply incredible. Read any review on them.
I am asking because the price step up is quite significant (the 8030 are way, way out of my price range so I didn't include them):
I'm open to the idea if the product is significantly better, but I'd have to wait another month to get one of those and it'd delay some of the other purchases I want to make. And sadly importing won't be any cheaper because the import fees are very large above $400.
Could grab something from Focal's alpha range locally (Rockshop or the local distributor). But I know how much of a pain they can be to fit on a small desk. Especially with an audio interface or DAC lol.
Only issue is that the Neumann KH120A is like $1,200 per speaker in New Zealand, a whole $800 more per pair then the Genelecs. Though, yes, they are some of the best near-fields that actually do alright in a larger room with proper placement.
Though for Australians, I think it was actually cheaper to import them from Thomann and bite the import fees than buy locally in Australia for a while. Could be worth looking into.
Ah, Australia. Was already wondering why the Genelecs were so expensive :-\
HiResDes, I absolutely love Swan's ribbon tweeters, some of the best. Not too pricey, too.
Looks interesting, but at this point I'm all Lambda'd out. After I got my 407, my next move will be up to either the Omega series or HiFiMAN's new electrostatic. But that won't be for a while, as I need to save up money.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Why hifiman's new electrostatic?
CrashPrime
Member
So what does the audio community think of remarks like "Anything above $2 buys more features not better sound" in regard to DACs?
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html
I feel like the piece of mind a Modi 2 or SMSL Sanskrit or even SMSL SD793-II would be a good buy to know you aren't dealing with EMI inside your PC, but if EMI is shielded on your mobo, whats the deal?
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html
I feel like the piece of mind a Modi 2 or SMSL Sanskrit or even SMSL SD793-II would be a good buy to know you aren't dealing with EMI inside your PC, but if EMI is shielded on your mobo, whats the deal?
SolarMystic
Member
Try tube depot. They have a pretty good selection and varying price points.
I don't agree but it is true that DACs have gotten a little ridiculous. Anything more than a Bimby is superfluous, unless you just want to spend more money because you can IMO. At least when it comes to headphones, I don't know anything about speakers.
I've heard a lot of people say DACs make a bigger difference when you're using speakers. Even the guy who served my at A2A mentioned it when I picked up my Bifrost. To be honest I would have thought it to be the other WY around, but I've never connected a proper DAC to my speakers before.
I still think its ridiculous for speakers. Basically, I use blind tests to provide myself an idea of how much benefit it actually provides. I can say that the difference between DACs in a blind test are less than:
- Toe in
- Room treatment
- Positioning in room
- Choice in room correction method (i.e. simple minimum phase adjustments vs. something like DEQX or Dirac Live)
- Choice of transducer type
- Cabinet quality
- Amplifier
I've tried a lot of DACs but I find it very hard to seriously differentiate them when not sighted, provided they're not one of those ones with obvious roll-off. Those I'll be able to pick out after like a week because something sound strange. I guess I'm just one of those DAC deaf people, which is probably a good thing as it saves me mad money seeing how goddamn expensive even basic DACs with relatively little functionality are now.
- Toe in
- Room treatment
- Positioning in room
- Choice in room correction method (i.e. simple minimum phase adjustments vs. something like DEQX or Dirac Live)
- Choice of transducer type
- Cabinet quality
- Amplifier
I've tried a lot of DACs but I find it very hard to seriously differentiate them when not sighted, provided they're not one of those ones with obvious roll-off. Those I'll be able to pick out after like a week because something sound strange. I guess I'm just one of those DAC deaf people, which is probably a good thing as it saves me mad money seeing how goddamn expensive even basic DACs with relatively little functionality are now.
what's this JDS The Element?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
From what I know it's basically an O2/ODAC configured by JDS labs. A bit pricier but if I was in a market for an amp/dac I would have paid the extra just to have something that is more nicely designed.
SolarMystic
Member
It is very slick looking. Also like the m9xx for that reason too, though I find it a little pricey for what's there.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The grace m9xx isn't really the same though. Cheap looking font, rough finishing, obvious edges and the knob proportionally isn't as well balanced as the element.
Speaking of good looking amp/dacs, the new wa8 is looking very sleek, though I don't see the point of it being portable with all the caveats it has.
Speaking of good looking amp/dacs, the new wa8 is looking very sleek, though I don't see the point of it being portable with all the caveats it has.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Yeah I find woo audio stuff gorgeous, but from what I've heard you're paying mostly the looks.
We compared a Sansa Clip+ to ODAc at a recent audit, basically the difference is the soundstaging and the rendering of fine details which is finer. And that's it.
Everybody was seriously impressed about the ODAC and expected a serious step down from the HighEnd SACD player.
SolarMystic
Member
I like a more industrial look personally.
Curiosity, really. Kinda want to see how they compare to the STAX Omega series.
From what I know it's basically an O2/ODAC configured by JDS labs. A bit pricier but if I was in a market for an amp/dac I would have paid the extra just to have something that is more nicely designed.
man that looks really good.
seems like it would be a good upgrade over my Audinst HUD MX-1
Oveja Negra
Member
By large speakers do you mean a pair of towers around 1 meter tall in your living room, for example?
If so, I'm in the process of acquiring a Hi-Fi system for my living room and to me, it will be an integrated amp (or preamp + amp) and a separate DAC.
I think out of the three variants you mention, all of them are capable of delivering great sound, but the key is to have an amplifier with enough power (tons of current) in order to be able to drive properly a pair of demanding speakers.
By demanding I'm talking about speakers rated at 8 Ohm in the datasheet, but that in the real world can go as low as 3 Ohm, and for that cases you need an amplifier with plenty of power "in the bank". Otherwise, your speakers will sound anemic, not to mention you'll be stressing your amp, which will try to deliver all the current the speakers demand during that 3 Ohm moments and fail miserably at it
For desktop configurations, for me self powered monitors are the way to go. As as I said in a previous post, my current setup is:
PC-->Schiit Wyrd-->Schiit Bifrost Uber-->Schiit Asgard 2-->Genelec M030.
Chittagong
Gold Member
A Wyrd? That's pretty hardcore haha
Oveja Negra
Member
Chittagong
Gold Member
CrashPrime
Member
If you want fun for cheap you guys gotta try the JVC SZ2000/1000. I have just started to get to know mine but with some EQ and power, it's pretty much a new experience for me. Beyer DT-770 gets smoked in bass performance. I am not in an ideal setup as I am playing with mine. Right now I am double amping because my DAP doesn't EQ line out, but "Flux Pavilion - Tesla" is sounding better than on any set of phones I've tried. Granted I don't have them in front of me to A/B, but I've listened to it on HD600's and the previously mentioned 770s.
The performance on electronic and hip-hop is unmatched for me. I am still trying to see if I can make Tool sound great. Probably will need to go with something else for more dynamic rock stuff but these are fun for a lot of bass heavy genres. I have pretty pathetic choices other than the JVC right now, so I am probably in the honeymoon period. But yea, pretty much no reason to have my Koss PortaPros (easily take the "best sounding while worst looking" title), JVC M55x, or Beats Pro Detox. Beats Pro are def. replaced and will be sold off as these JVC kill it in all but maybe build.
And I know Beats get their flack but the Pro was an exception to the rule. Pretty decent for closed back, just overpriced at MSRP.
Speaking of DAP's, do any EQ a line out signal? What is the expected method for EQ when using a portable amp?
The performance on electronic and hip-hop is unmatched for me. I am still trying to see if I can make Tool sound great. Probably will need to go with something else for more dynamic rock stuff but these are fun for a lot of bass heavy genres. I have pretty pathetic choices other than the JVC right now, so I am probably in the honeymoon period. But yea, pretty much no reason to have my Koss PortaPros (easily take the "best sounding while worst looking" title), JVC M55x, or Beats Pro Detox. Beats Pro are def. replaced and will be sold off as these JVC kill it in all but maybe build.
And I know Beats get their flack but the Pro was an exception to the rule. Pretty decent for closed back, just overpriced at MSRP.
Speaking of DAP's, do any EQ a line out signal? What is the expected method for EQ when using a portable amp?