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[Amir0x]

You're an idiot. Plain and simple. You sound like some smarmy little twat who gets a twitch of pleasure in his loins each time he kicks someone who doesn't meet the holy Amir0x microphone code. As infected, if you or your teammates lack the reasoning abilities to decipher what your teammates are up to at any given moment and to create those gangbangs, then lord, you're probably too incompetent to handle the intense multitasking of touching a push-to-talk button anyhow. You do not need a microphone - you need a modicum of intuition, some tactical common sense, and the ability to play off your team. Those things you're trying to communicate by voice, filling the void? In a half-decent team, they're second nature.

Sorry friend, but we may both be happier because at the end of the day, I'd rather play with a bunch of voiceless pubbies than the sort of stuck-up prick who can't settle for anything less than live John Madden play-by-plays on every 5 feet a hunter should decide to move.

Reading for your return: There are plenty of teams who would play in silence, and you're free to do that. There's nothing holier-than-thou about my stance on the issue. I don't read minds, and I often play with people who I don't know. As a result, it is VERY OFTEN the case that these people do not know what I have in mind for strategies, or where we can set things up, or even decent survivor strategies. If they choose not to use the microphone, I'm not holding it against them. I'm just not going to waste time playing with those people, since nine out of ten times they end up dead.

And it's not like it wasn't born out of experience. I've played hundreds of matches now, and every time it's silent and we can't share strategies, we've always had a significantly higher rate of loss. When we have microphones, the rate of win basically skyrockets through the roof. It's a literal night and day difference.

Now, as I said, on PC the options open up more. Communication through keyboard, while factually slower than microphone, is still a decent step up from nothing at all. Binding as well is also a decent step up.

But as I'm all efficiency and specificity, it's always gonna be microphone only for me. And it has nothing to do with skill one way or the other - I am a phenomenal L4D player. I don't know what your fear of microphone has to do with - and if I was in an insulting mood, I'd have a perfect deduction for the reason why right now - but nobody is telling you to play with it. I'm saying, hey...have fun. Do what you like! Just, ya know, I won't be playing with you. Which is totally cool man!

Ever played a real shooter competitively? Q3 TDM or any other old-school skill-dependent FPS require much, much more communication than L4D. It's not the same ballpark at all.

Not that I care whether or not you kick some guys from your game though.

Well, while I agree some of those other FPS are much better with voice-based communication, Left 4 Dead is by far the one I feel most requires it. I've never felt before I simply cannot play without microphone, though I prefer it. L4D is the first I said "no I won't bother if you don't have it."

 

[Baloonatic]

Got the game up and running, have to say it looks amazing compared to my old PC. Steam ID is Baloonatic if people are up for a game.

 

[syllogism]

It's unfortunate Amir0x is playing the scrub version as now we can't find out just how "phenomenal" player he is

 

[Amir0x]

Oh one day I'll get the PC version too, have no doubt. And I'll gladly play with you - provided you have a microphone, of course :lol

(Note: It's not only a one sided thing too. Non-microphone players are typically so bad that we don't even allow them on the other team most of the time, since they offer so little challenge.)

 

[syllogism]

No doubt you will, probably around the time you and your fellow 360 l4ders are experienced enough not to require some other player order you around with a mic.

 

[Teknoman]

Got the game up and running, have to say it looks amazing compared to my old PC. Steam ID is Baloonatic if people are up for a game.

Find the Steam GAF group and GAF L4D group, those are pretty helpful in finding GAF that might not post in the topics, but do play L4D (or any other steam game) alot.

 

[Amir0x]

No doubt you will, probably around the time you and your fellow 360 l4ders are experienced enough not to require some other player order you around with a mic.

It's called cooperation for a reason!

The most funny thing about the acti-microphone activists (and I enjoy this subject, since it is so central to the heart of this game) is that they have as yet offered no reason why microphone shouldn't be the gold standard. It is faster that binds/keyboard, more specific and efficient, and allows you to communicate perfectly even with people you do not know. In short, you seem more angry that microphone users would not play with you than you are that about the fact microphones are a superior form of communication.

Anyway, the only bitter ones seem to be those who would not use microphones... I personally hope you have a lot of fun playing L4D however you choose, but you shouldn't expect me to want to lower my experience for these individuals. Experience has taught me what is undeniably the best way to play.

Anyhoo, that's my word. The real truth is Left 4 Dead is amazing, and on that we seem all to be united.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Well, I got it going finally, but whenever I compress the audio, the sound becomes really lagged (although a slow motion Tourettes Tank is pretty funny), so that added about 100mb to the file, and the video looks about like what a demo does for me, so I guess I need a beefier computer to make it smooth like it is in-game. I'll post it when it's uploaded though, we did alright. (Map is NM5, I'm on Infected side, vid is about 12:30 long). Someone said it's probably my video card (Nvidia 7600 or something like that) is what causes the skippiness in demo mode.

It's called cooperation for a reason!

The most funny thing about the acti-microphone activists (and I enjoy this subject, since it is so central to the heart of this game) is that they have as yet offered no reason why microphone shouldn't be the gold standard.

The reason is more that it isn't necessary to win, where a lot of pro-mic people seem to believe it is impossible to not only win, but to even play the game halfway decent if you don't have and use a mic throughout the game.

 

[syllogism]

It's called cooperation for a reason!

The most funny thing about the acti-microphone activists (and I enjoy this subject, since it is so central to the heart of this game) is that they have as yet offered no reason why microphone shouldn't be the gold standard. It is faster that binds/keyboard, more specific and efficient, and allows you to communicate perfectly even with people you do not know. In short, you seem more angry that microphone users would not play with you than you are that about the fact microphones are a superior form of communication.

Anyway, the only bitter ones seem to be those who would not use microphones... I personally hope you have a lot of fun playing L4D however you choose, but you shouldn't expect me to want to lower my experience for these individuals. Experience has taught me what is undeniably the best way to play.

Anyhoo, that's my word. The real truth is Left 4 Dead is amazing, and on that we seem all to be united.

Hey, I agree it's more fun to play with people who have mics, but it barely makes any difference in high level play. On PC that is.

 

[Amir0x]

Right, except it has literally made all the difference in high level play on more times than I can even care to count. I mean we're just going around in circles since my experiences are 100% true, as are yours, so until ours cross over in any definable way we're always going to believe differently.

so that's all I have to say on the microphone debate. It's more fun, true, but it's also better. And so I choose not to play with non-microphone users. That's why we can kick people from lobbies, for just such purposes as "choosing who you want to play with". I don't understand why anyone was offended by such a simple concept

The reason is more that it isn't necessary to win, where a lot of pro-mic people seem to believe it is impossible to not only win, but to even play the game halfway decent if you don't have and use a mic throughout the game.

Oh I am sure people that are GREAT with binds and fast typers can play well, no doubt at all. I would wonder how they'd fare against the top microphone teams, but I definitely think they can play at a high level - after all, you can be specific with keyboards. It's just somewhat slower.

On the other level, syllogism mentioned microphones are more "fun". And this is also one other part of the equation. Hearing the sounds of ellation or frustration from fellow teammates is part of the experience, I think. Although for you Red Scarlet, I can understand not using the microphone. From my experience whenever a female joins the game, the other players act like douchenozzles.

 

[syllogism]

Right, except it has literally made all the difference in high level play on more times than I can even care to count. I mean we're just going around in circles since my experiences are 100% true, as are yours, so until ours cross over in any definable way we're always going to believe differently.

Well certainly on 360 it might be a bit more useful as the limited controls make it harder to be aware of everything around you without relying on your teammates. Also I never play with random people.

 

[Amir0x]

Well certainly on 360 it might be a bit more useful as the limited controls make it harder to be aware of everything around you without relying on your teammates. Also I never play with random people.

This right here seems to be the big defining difference than. I play with some GAFers, but we're always going outside the community for players at some point - at the very least for our opposing team. So by nature I have begun to attempt to find competitive matches, which comes best from microphone players.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Right, except it has literally made all the difference in high level play on more times than I can even care to count. I mean we're just going around in circles since my experiences are 100% true, as are yours, so until ours cross over in any definable way we're always going to believe differently.

so that's all I have to say on the microphone debate. It's more fun, true, but it's also better. And so I choose not to play with non-microphone users. That's why we can kick people from lobbies, for just such purposes as "choosing who you want to play with". I don't understand why anyone was offended by such a simple concept



Oh I am sure people that are GREAT with binds and fast typers can play well, no doubt at all. I would wonder how they'd fare against the top microphone teams, but I definitely think they can play at a high level - after all, you can be specific with keyboards. It's just somewhat slower.

On the other level, syllogism mentioned microphones are more "fun". And this is also one other part of the equation. Hearing the sounds of ellation or frustration from fellow teammates is part of the experience, I think. Although for you Red Scarlet, I can understand not using the microphone. From my experience whenever a female joins the game, the other players act like douchenozzles.

Well, not only that, but I'd be constantly bitching at people to help me up or if I'm pounced/smokered, or go "why the hell are you over there?, pick this up stupid!" in a mousey-voice.

 

[Amir0x]

Well, not only that, but I'd be constantly bitching at people to help me up or if I'm pounced/smokered, or go "why the hell are you over there?, pick this up stupid!" in a mousey-voice.

:lol

I will say the only time microphones creep me out is when I'm playing with some nine year old or something. I don't know but I think it feels a little weird, a 24 year old playing with a random nine year old!

That's like the time I joined a match with someone who was five years old, and he was talking to the computer players thinking they were real people. So I felt bad and played with him since he said it was his Christmas Gift! :lol

 

[Keylime]

:lol

I will say the only time microphones creep me out is when I'm playing with some nine year old or something. I don't know but I think it feels a little weird, a 24 year old playing with a random nine year old!

That's like the time I joined a match with someone who was five years old, and he was talking to the computer players thinking they were real people. So I felt bad and played with him since he said it was his Christmas Gift! :lol

Weirdest game I've ever played...ever.

The kid was easily the talkiest person I've ever encountered in an online game or off. Imagine the protagonist from the movie Crank turned into a video game playing 5 year old who's only means of maintaining high levels of adrenaline was to talk.

That was this kid.

 

[Red Scarlet]

:lol

I will say the only time microphones creep me out is when I'm playing with some nine year old or something. I don't know but I think it feels a little weird, a 24 year old playing with a random nine year old!

That's like the time I joined a match with someone who was five years old, and he was talking to the computer players thinking they were real people. So I felt bad and played with him since he said it was his Christmas Gift! :lol

Some boy probably around 10 going by how he sounded played a map with some of us a couple days ago, he was pretty hilarious.:lol

 

[1-D_FTW]

This right here seems to be the big defining difference than. I play with some GAFers, but we're always going outside the community for players at some point - at the very least for our opposing team. So by nature I have begun to attempt to find competitive matches, which comes best from microphone players.

I'm the same way as syllogism. I play friend's only almost exclusively. The competition seems to be much better this way and most people know how to play shooters. The one hole in that argument, on PC, is that there's usually at least one moron in any public game I ever try (Which is why I don't think I've ever played a public match to completion.) The stupidity of their orders/strategy is enough to make one quit (And Valve for some reason removed TF2's mute feature.)

 

[Twig]

The most funny thing about the acti-microphone activists (and I enjoy this subject, since it is so central to the heart of this game) is that they have as yet offered no reason why microphone shouldn't be the gold standard.

But no one (aside from the "people talking annoy me!" crowd) has said anything even implying that not having a mic is better.

Obviously having a mic is better. But it's entirely unnecessary for a cohesive and entertaining experience. (On PC.) I've done well without anyone using a mic and I've done shitty when everyone had a mic. Sometimes with the same people.

What is it with you "pro-microphone acitivists" and your inability to recognize that we aren't saying having a mic doesn't make for a better experience?

I have no issue with anyone preferring that I have a mic or whatever. But if I'm getting kicked for not having a mic (note: I do have one, and use it whenever I can), I'm going to be fucking pissed off, because I can be a team player without one. It's not. That. Hard.

...

or we can all agre 360 version sux cuz no kb lol

Also, pubbies suck regardless of if they have a mic or not. It just comes with the nature of being a random dude. You are an idiot. It's inherent. Nothing can fix it, not even a mic.

God I hate pubbies.

 

[Keylime]

I have no issue with anyone preferring that I have a mic or whatever. But if I'm getting kicked for not having a mic (note: I do have one, and use it whenever I can), I'm going to be fucking pissed off, because I can be a team player without one. It's not. That. Hard.

...

or we can all agre 360 version sux cuz no kb lol

You'd just be collateral damage. The policy is intended to reduce our involvement with dumb pubbies, and sadly that means we are likely kicking some smart pubbies in the process.

It's nothing to get upset about.

...and stop with the 360 version sucks nonsense. No reason to turn this into a PC vs. 360 debate.

 

[xKilltheMx]

So like - I like Left 4 Dead, and uh the game is fun.
I actually have a mic, 2 actually, but don't use them (even with my considerably slower typing) because I worry about how much useful info I would blather out instead of having to choose things that would be deemed important by my teammates when I have to type.
Plus my voice annoys the sin out of me.

 

[M.J. Doja]

just poking back into the thread to say i havent forgotten about you.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Well, here's the demo I recorded from last night. Teams were Pop On Arrival, myself, PillowKnight, and Juice (Medic on GAF) vs Goreomedy, dmczaf,

Spoiler

fuckin

Nabs, and killermxr419 (I think he was a random, not sure). It's No Mercy 5, I'm on Infected, and had the Tourettes Tank thing going. We did pretty well I guess. The skippiness in the video is what the demo looks like for me when I view that, so I think I need a better computer if I am to make more videos, so this will likely be the only one for a long time that I'll do. Plus, it took a whole lot of hard drive space to make just this one video, like 20gb for the movie demo where it made 22000 1.4mb pictures, then the raw avi was 30 or 40gb, too. And then the sound issue, where if I compressed it, it'd slow down, so the audio is uncompressed and added 100mb to the file size (377mb total). Give it a watch if you'd like.

http://redscarlet.paragonsigma.com/No Mercy 5 test.avi

Oh yeah, I was trying to protect Juice with the Tank while he was beating on dmczaf, then I just went and attacked the others that were advancing, but I didn't incap them like I had planned. I should've incapped dmczaf then went after Goreomedy and Nabs, but oh well. I made up for it as Boomer.

 

[Hunter D]

This is charsace posting from the mothership. Anyone playing tonight?

Bulleta I don't see your demo link.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Yeah, I forgot to post the link initially, it's been awhile since I've put up a video.

 

[Brannon]

Still hard for me to join any Gaffers, if anyone is on, put me in!

Steam ID - Brannon

 

[Twig]

You'd just be collateral damage. The policy is intended to reduce our involvement with dumb pubbies, and sadly that means we are likely kicking some smart pubbies in the process.

Ding ding ding! You get it! It's not black and white. Shame you won't carry that off this post.

...and stop with the 360 version sucks nonsense. No reason to turn this into a PC vs. 360 debate.

I'm glad you recognize it for the nonsense it is. Congratulations, you can interpret text! Cookie?

 

[Keylime]

Ding ding ding! You get it! It's not black and white. Shame you won't carry that off this post.

I'm glad you recognize it for the nonsense it is. Congratulations, you can interpret text! Cookie?

...only I've been saying the same thing for this entire argument. I'm sorry you've failed to understand that.

 

[xKilltheMx]

Still hard for me to join any Gaffers, if anyone is on, put me in!

Steam ID - Brannon

Im about to get on, you added me already.

 

[Twig]

...only I've been saying the same thing for this entire argument. I'm sorry you've failed to understand that.

If you really believed it, you wouldn't kick people for not having a mic. I'm sorry you fail to see the hypocrisy in your own actions.

 

[Nabs]

.

ah the choppiness gets really bad towards the end. ah well, that match wasn't any good anyway... :lol our team wasn't really working out from the beginning of NM5.

 

[Keylime]

If you really believed it, you wouldn't kick people for not having a mic. I'm sorry you fail to see the hypocrisy in your own actions.

I'm sorry you fail to understand the simplest of things described to you at length throughout this thread. It's astounding really.

The policy is used to increase the odds of having a team that works well with each other. That's all. It's very simple. So simple that you apparently can't understand it.

It's very very very very very very simple.

Edit: I've gone through the trouble of explaining why microphone use is an added benefit to playing (which you've agreed with), and yet you can't understand why I choose to only play with people who use a microphone.

I enjoy talking to them. I enjoy knowing that I can explain things to people that don't understand them. I enjoy being able to laugh about great things together. I enjoy being able to plan an attack with people I've never met before or learn their strategies.

All of these things are important to me, and thus I choose to play with people who use microphones. It's not a hard concept. At all.

Double Edit: You've made me explain this to the point where I'm coming across as some asshole and it's bothering me, when clearly you are the one who needs to get off your high horse and understand that TO ME, microphone use is an important thing, and I CHOOSE not to play with people who don't use them.

I agree with everyone's reasoning as to why microphones aren't NECESSARY, but I have repeatedly demonstrated why I make them my PERSONAL PREFERENCE, as they ADD BENEFIT over not using them.

 

[Llyranor]

What's all this microphone talk? Aren't mics pretty standard when it comes to team games in this day and age? Can't you just mute people you dislike, anyway? Besides, there's an all-purpose button for pointing out any sort of context-sensitive (ammo, guns, pills, etc) if you don't want to talk. What's the issue?

 

[DarkKyo]

I'm sorry you fail to understand the simplest of things described to you at length throughout this thread. It's astounding really.

The policy is used to increase the odds of having a team that works well with each other. That's all. It's very simple. So simple that you apparently can't understand it.

It's very very very very very very simple.

I've gone through the trouble of explaining why microphone use is an added benefit to playing (which you've agreed with), and yet you can't understand why I choose to only play with people who use a microphone.

I enjoy talking to them. I enjoy knowing that I can explain things to people that don't understand them. I enjoy being able to laugh about great things together. I enjoy being able to plan an attack with people I've never met before or learn their strategies.

All of these things are important to me, and thus I choose to play with people who use microphones. It's not a hard concept. At all.

It's still super-douchey. But hey if you really gotta have it your way..

 

[Keylime]

It's still super-douchey. But hey if you really gotta have it your way..

That's the beauty of online gaming, isn't it? You can find or run servers that run to your personal preferences?

 

[DarkKyo]

That's the beauty of online gaming, isn't it? You can find or run servers that run to your personal preferences?

Indeed..
...

Spoiler

Buddeh!

 

[Red Scarlet]

What's all this microphone talk? Aren't mics pretty standard when it comes to team games in this day and age? Can't you just mute people you dislike, anyway? Besides, there's an all-purpose button for pointing out any sort of context-sensitive (ammo, guns, pills, etc) if you don't want to talk. What's the issue?

You can't mute people/character sayings.

 

[Teknoman]

I'll be on the PC version in a little bit. Burning a disc for someone atm.

 

[Keylime]

You can't mute people/character sayings.

This is a unique issue to the PC version sadly.

It seems like the added benefit of being able to bind sayings comes with this issue. Hopefully it's abuse isn't rampant, but I've read otherwise in this thread, sadly.

Perhaps this is an option that should be offered in upcoming patches for the PC version.

 

[Twig]

It's still super-douchey. But hey if you really gotta have it your way..

Yep. Preference is one thing. Being a dick is another.

 

[Llyranor]

Heh, I see.

I only play campaign with buddies, so I've never really had an issue with mics. Besides, we vote kick people who are annoying anyhow, since we're usually in the majority.

(360 version lol, laugh all you want)

 

[Keylime]

Yep. Preference is one thing. Being a dick is another.

I don't understand how it's douchey to tailor a server to my own personal preferences using built in functionality that ships with the game.

But if that makes me a douche in your eyes, so be it.

 

[xKilltheMx]

Heh, I see.

I only play campaign with buddies, so I've never really had an issue with mics. Besides, we vote kick people who are annoying anyhow, since we're usually in the majority.

(360 version lol, laugh all you want)

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA 360? MWHAHAHAHAHA.

Spoiler

On another note, I hate loading up after the group when I play, this never happened before but now all the time =[

 

[Twig]

I don't understand how it's douchey to tailor a server to my own personal preferences using built in functionality that ships with the game.

But if that makes me a douche in your eyes, so be it.

Yeah, empathy must be pretty hard for you.

 

[Gart]

Mic is certainly not necessary at high level play with 4 players that know the game inside out. Everything that RubxQub mentioned as occasions where a mic would be needed, the competent player would've already instinctively known or been ready for before hand. Everything from when, where, how, who, to hit as infected at any given moment is already intuitively understood. It's like your team has a hive mind or is like the borg! Same thing on survivor.

Mics can interfere with how efficient a team can be, I find. Putting redundant in-the-moment fleeting strategical calls, mic delays, bad info aside, when you broadcast using the in-game voice chat, the game sounds are lowered and it drowns out the crucial audio cues.

At high level play I'm not so sure a team with mics would always beat a team without mics. I think the lower the skill level you go down the more necessary mics become.

But it can be more fun with mics though. Depends if you have more fun winning or have more fun with the social aspect. I enjoy both myself. Sometimes I like playing to win, sometimes I just have fun and fool around with friends or pubbers with the mic. Not implying mic-less = win. Sometimes I use mic, sometimes I don't.

 

[DarkKyo]

In my experience, many people who don't have mics still put a team effort in. They will usually listen to the rest of the team, and reacting to him being stopped by an infected boss isn't that hard because they stay with you.

You booting people for not having a mic is simply a really shoddy way to feel like an all-important dick.

You boot people because they are not cooperative or if they are disruptive. They may not have mics but damnit, they are still human!

 

[Keylime]

Yeah, empathy must be pretty hard for you.

Give it a rest, OK? Just be done with it.

I've stated my case clearly and you clearly don't agree with it. I get it. But you are no longer adding anything to the discussion.

 

[RocketDarkness]

The microphone argument is giving me a headache. >.o

Anyways, I haven't forgotten about L4D, just been absorbed with P4 and real life. I am going to get a real headset soon, though. Hopefully before the update rolls out. Looking forward to jumping back in once things settle down on my side, though!

 

[Gart]

Join in Progress should be renamed to Join in Progress and Possibly Dead.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah, empathy must be pretty hard for you.

It is not, uh, empathetic to allow non-microphone users to play games and lessen our online experience. This isn't charity, it's a game. You want to tailor the features and players to provide the experience that is MOST fun to you.

It is LESS fun to play with non-microphone users, and often those teams are less talented, so we kick 'em to better our chances of getting good, competitive players. I know RubxQub wants to drop this, and I do too, but this level of silliness over someone choosing the options that are best suited to the game they purchased with their own money is ridiculous.

So I will choose whatever options makes the game most fun for me. And you will choose what options is best for you. Our deciding that we don't want to play with non-microphone users is not going to make their online experience less fun, since they will just go on and join another game that will be accommodating.

Now this is seriously my last word. HAPPY NEW YEARS! LEFT 4 DEAD, ORIGINAL GOTY 2008

 

[The Librarian]

Give it a rest, OK? Just be done with it.

I've stated my case clearly and you clearly don't agree with it. I get it. But you are no longer adding anything to the discussion.

Neither are you and you don't here me complaining!