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The OFFICIAL Spider-Man® 2 THREAD. REVIEWS. ALL SPIDEY-RELATED EVENTS. EVERYTHING.
- Thread starter Willco
- Start date
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Exactly. Man it would be so cool to see symbiote Spider-Man. Getting to see Spider-Man go on a brief crime spree would be sick. Why did they have to tie everything up so nicely with Mary Jane, John Jameson, and Peter Parker. They had everything setup perfectly for Venom. Now that Parker got the girl of his dreams and revealed his identity to pretty much the whole city for movie going audiences I think the main storyline has pretty much completed itself. Harry is the only thread left hanging at all. Mary Jane was pretty much the main unobtainable goal for Peter Parker. Everything else is just consequential now. They could have kept the saga going for one more movie. Have her with Jameson's son, it wouldn't have mattered since he's cannon fodder in the shuttle accident. Have that conflict where JJ truly hates Spider-man and thinks he killed his kid. Have MJ conflicted not knowing what to think about Peter.
I think people like Venom because he's basically a more powerful advanced version of Spider-man without any of Peter Parker's weaknesses. Oh yeah and he's evil. I don't agree about no motivations though. He has all the motivations of Eddie Brock. By Peter Parker using his ability to get basically free money from Jameson by constantly shooting himself as Spider-Man he's hurt other hard working reporters/photographers like Eddie Brock. It's basically the most unethical aspect of Peter Parker's life. I don't think it would be very hard to build up motivations for Venom. Maybe it's just because of the way the excellent animated series handled it, but if you're going to bring John Jameson the astroanut so prominently into this picture then you've got to introduce the alien symbiote. Peter Parker being evil would make for some great movie sequences as well. Spider-Man facing off against a more advanced form of himself would be a great match-up and result in what could easily be the best fight sequences in the movie series. And when Spider-Man triumphs over Venom using his intellect it shows that it is Peter Parker who makes Spider-Man so special, not just the powers he has. Plus the fans want to see Venom more than any other character in the Spider-Man universe.Willco said:
DJ Demon J
Banned
---- said:
Extremely well said. Raimi let me down with Spidey 2. GG Harry in Spidey 3 will be a horrible way to end the franchise. The seeds to Venom should have been sowed in this film.
aparisi2274
Member
COCKLES said:
I think if they even go with Harry as the new GG in 3, it will be as a 2nd tier villan. I think they would have him be more conflicted, because of his hate for Spiderman, but his love for his best friend, Peter, and he wont be able to kill Spiderman when it comes down to it. I think if they went with a villan like Venom or Lizard, it would take away from the movie. So far both movies have been very story driven with deep characters, and both villans were just normal people who had something very unexpected happen to them, and both went Schizo. They both had voices in their head, and that conflict made them very relateable to movie goers. How would it look if all of a sudden the villan in Spidey 3 is an ALien??? Most people would dismiss that as cheese, and might pass on seeing the movie.
The Faceless Master
Member
i'm sure they can come up with something for the boobs...Willco said:
Littleberu
Banned
aparisi2274 said:
Nah. Lizard is much more complicated than that. As Peter says in Blue, The Lizard is something that went from good to bad. Connors had his family, was successful in what he was doing, and all went wrong. Then, suddenly, he can't see his family, he loses his job, and when he gets too nervous he goes on a rampage.
so seriously though, what will spiderman 3 be about plotwise ? will it conclude with harry osbourne being thrown in the slammer ? I think it'd be a good idea to have another villain this time around. Peter having the girl means that they don't have any sort of personal conflict for him to deal with so they need more spiderman stuff to make up for it... They'll have to try something really fresh with a spiderman 3 I think.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Pachinko said:
i wonder if there is any chance they introduce Gwen Stacy and her accompanying storyline, or is that off limits?
The series is already half full of cheese. Hell, I'd say the biggest problem is that Raimi refuses to pick between placing the series in reality or a comic book world. He seems to switch his preference every other scene, creating an incredibly inconsistent series when it comes to tone. I don't even have a preference as to which they should have went with. All I know is that a decision should have been made at some point, rather than straddling the line and doing both, alternating between situations whenever it makes Raimi and the writers' jobs easiest.aparisi2274 said:
I saw SM2 for the 2nd time tonight, just got back a while ago.
Where will Spidey 3 go? I thought about it on the drive home.
For those who think that Peter's angst will go away now that he has MJ, that didn't happen in the comics. He married MJ yet still had plenty of issues with finances, her popularity and fame, as well as the odd villain or two that she got involved with. I'm glad the story moved along swiftly, with MJ finding out (and Harry too? Egads what will Raimi do with THAT?)
I think Venom could work great in SM3. But not like the comics. No alien symbiote. I think the two SM films are too grounded in the real world to introduce something so fantastic as that. Ult SM's concept that Venom is a symbiote creature genetically grown seems the best explanation.
I'd see a workable Venom storyline as Peter, due to his college and science connections, gets introduced to the symbiote in a lab. This turns into the black suit Spidey, plenty of storylines there suitable for a 3rd film. The most logical seems to be it starts to corrupt Peter mentally. Kind of like Richard Pryor's homemade Kryptonite turned Superman into an angry, womanizing boozer.
Spidey could beat the symbiote mid-film only for it to link to Jameson (just forget Eddie Brock altogether, there's no room for him at this pont in the films). But get this little idea twist -- Venom is hired by Harry Osborn to do his dirty work. Venom is defeated so Harry finally takes the goblin juice, improving his strength and reaction time and driving him further over the edge.
Hoo boy, we gotta fit Gwen into this too, don't we... There better be Spidey 3 and 4 filmed simultaneously.
Where will Spidey 3 go? I thought about it on the drive home.
For those who think that Peter's angst will go away now that he has MJ, that didn't happen in the comics. He married MJ yet still had plenty of issues with finances, her popularity and fame, as well as the odd villain or two that she got involved with. I'm glad the story moved along swiftly, with MJ finding out (and Harry too? Egads what will Raimi do with THAT?)
I think Venom could work great in SM3. But not like the comics. No alien symbiote. I think the two SM films are too grounded in the real world to introduce something so fantastic as that. Ult SM's concept that Venom is a symbiote creature genetically grown seems the best explanation.
I'd see a workable Venom storyline as Peter, due to his college and science connections, gets introduced to the symbiote in a lab. This turns into the black suit Spidey, plenty of storylines there suitable for a 3rd film. The most logical seems to be it starts to corrupt Peter mentally. Kind of like Richard Pryor's homemade Kryptonite turned Superman into an angry, womanizing boozer.
Spidey could beat the symbiote mid-film only for it to link to Jameson (just forget Eddie Brock altogether, there's no room for him at this pont in the films). But get this little idea twist -- Venom is hired by Harry Osborn to do his dirty work. Venom is defeated so Harry finally takes the goblin juice, improving his strength and reaction time and driving him further over the edge.
Hoo boy, we gotta fit Gwen into this too, don't we... There better be Spidey 3 and 4 filmed simultaneously.
aparisi2274
Member
Cafeman said:I saw SM2 for the 2nd time tonight, just got back a while ago.
Where will Spidey 3 go? I thought about it on the drive home.
For those who think that Peter's angst will go away now that he has MJ, that didn't happen in the comics. He married MJ yet still had plenty of issues with finances, her popularity and fame, as well as the odd villain or two that she got involved with. I'm glad the story moved along swiftly, with MJ finding out (and Harry too? Egads what will Raimi do with THAT?)
I think Venom could work great in SM3. But not like the comics. No alien symbiote. I think the two SM films are too grounded in the real world to introduce something so fantastic as that. Ult SM's concept that Venom is a symbiote creature genetically grown seems the best explanation.
I'd see a workable Venom storyline as Peter, due to his college and science connections, gets introduced to the symbiote in a lab. This turns into the black suit Spidey, plenty of storylines there suitable for a 3rd film. The most logical seems to be it starts to corrupt Peter mentally. Kind of like Richard Pryor's homemade Kryptonite turned Superman into an angry, womanizing boozer.
Spidey could beat the symbiote mid-film only for it to link to Jameson (just forget Eddie Brock altogether, there's no room for him at this pont in the films). But get this little idea twist -- Venom is hired by Harry Osborn to do his dirty work. Venom is defeated so Harry finally takes the goblin juice, improving his strength and reaction time and driving him further over the edge.
Hoo boy, we gotta fit Gwen into this too, don't we... There better be Spidey 3 and 4 filmed simultaneously.
Thats a cool idea for storylines. I was never into the comics, so these 2 movies have been a good thing for someone like me. That is why I never thought Venom would work. That was one of the comic storyline that I followed somewhat. So, I knew it was an Alien, but see I never knew about the other story arc, where the symbiote was grown in a lab. I think that would work. Also, I think you need Eddie Brock. JJJ wouldnt fit as Venom, unless you mean his son, then I can see that happening, but it might piss off the Spidey fans. I mean JJJ did mention Eddie Brock in the first movie, so I can see him in Spidey 3, you know taking pics, because JJJ fired parker again or something. Then incorporate Eddie and the Symbiote, and Viola, Venom is Born. Also, I think no matter what, Harry will be the GG in Spidey 3, but as a 2nd tier villan, just as a nuisance for Spidey while he tries to fight the main villan. Also, I think Harry will fail as the GG because as much as he hates Spiderman, I think he cares to much for Pete, and that conflict will make him fail as a villan, because he cant kill the bug when the time comes. I can also see a nice twist where the GG and Venom are working together to get Spidey and when GG has the chance to kill him and he doesnt, I would love to see Venom kill Harry/GG, and that would make Spidey go nuts, and that would be a cool end battle.
Ok, I just saw the flick last night, and have a couple questions for the comic book fans..
1.) First I'd like to say "Wow.". I was really surprised they allowed Spiderman to be de-masked so soon. They were somewhat ambiguous at the end.. if Harry was going to become the next Green Goblin.
2.) I didn't like how Peter was able to "turn off" his spiderman abilities during the middle of the movie. From what we saw in the first, he was bitten by a mutated spider, and the bite caused himself to mutate also. That shouldn't be a light switch you can flick on and off. It didn't seem to make sense in the context of what we've been shown. Did I miss something?
Outside of that, I really enjoyed the movie.
1.) First I'd like to say "Wow.". I was really surprised they allowed Spiderman to be de-masked so soon. They were somewhat ambiguous at the end.. if Harry was going to become the next Green Goblin.
2.) I didn't like how Peter was able to "turn off" his spiderman abilities during the middle of the movie. From what we saw in the first, he was bitten by a mutated spider, and the bite caused himself to mutate also. That shouldn't be a light switch you can flick on and off. It didn't seem to make sense in the context of what we've been shown. Did I miss something?
Outside of that, I really enjoyed the movie.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
Nice, Cafeman. That storyline sounds very interesting.
However, I'd probably go with a Lizardman/Hobgoblin villian combo in part 3, instead. On the one end you've got Dr. Connors trying to control his animal side (like the Hulk) with Spider-man trying to protect the city while trying to save his friend/professor. Then you've got Harry Osborne's inner struggle to become the next Goblin and exact revenge on his best friend and former girlfriend. Parker has to protect the city, Mary Jane, Harry Osborne AND Aunt May from harms way this time.
Save that Venom/black spideysuit stuff for part 4.
However, I'd probably go with a Lizardman/Hobgoblin villian combo in part 3, instead. On the one end you've got Dr. Connors trying to control his animal side (like the Hulk) with Spider-man trying to protect the city while trying to save his friend/professor. Then you've got Harry Osborne's inner struggle to become the next Goblin and exact revenge on his best friend and former girlfriend. Parker has to protect the city, Mary Jane, Harry Osborne AND Aunt May from harms way this time.
Save that Venom/black spideysuit stuff for part 4.
Littleberu
Banned
What what?! Did you really saw the movie? He couldn't use his spider abilities because he had a burnout. He needed to choose which life (Spiderman or Peter Parker) he wanted to continue, because he couldn't always have 2 self.
Littleberu said:
He was physically mutated correct? His genes were changed to the point he was able to shoot webs and climb like a spider, more physically adept (leaping, movement, etc.), and all around tougher (both in taking a beating and dealing one out).
Now the problems shooting webs I felt was entirely believable. People tend to have performance anxiety when they are not themselves or under a lot of pressure, but not being able to knock over a door with his shoulder? No way. That's a complete change in his physical being.
SyNapSe said:
He was weakened, he didnt completely change back. Remember when he tried to jump from one roof to another but ended up falling and landing in the alleyway? He got up and walked away... anyone else would have been dead.
He was stressed out, lonely and depressed... instead of getting sick like a normal human, his "powers" were taking the toll.
Sam Raimi Busy Writing Spider-Man 3
The Irish Examiner reports that director Sam Raimi has already turned his thoughts to Spider-Man 3...
The director of summer blockbuster Spider-Man 2 is "flabbergasted" by the film's record-breaking success at the box office, but Sam Raimi said today that he is too busy writing Part Three to relax and enjoy the victory.
The film has already outdone the original Spider Man, pulling in a record 150m in its first six days in North American theatres.
"The box office is just a surprise," Raimi said in Tokyo, ahead of the film's opening there on Saturday. "I'm flabbergasted."
Raimi said he and his brother were currently working on the story for Spider-Man 3.
"We were working on it at the hotel last night and this morning," he said. "But I don't know what is going to happen yet."
Sam and his brother are of course working on the story, the actual screenplay will be written by someone else.
The Irish Examiner reports that director Sam Raimi has already turned his thoughts to Spider-Man 3...
The director of summer blockbuster Spider-Man 2 is "flabbergasted" by the film's record-breaking success at the box office, but Sam Raimi said today that he is too busy writing Part Three to relax and enjoy the victory.
The film has already outdone the original Spider Man, pulling in a record 150m in its first six days in North American theatres.
"The box office is just a surprise," Raimi said in Tokyo, ahead of the film's opening there on Saturday. "I'm flabbergasted."
Raimi said he and his brother were currently working on the story for Spider-Man 3.
"We were working on it at the hotel last night and this morning," he said. "But I don't know what is going to happen yet."
Sam and his brother are of course working on the story, the actual screenplay will be written by someone else.
DJ Demon J
Banned
Willco said:
Umm, they fit Doc Ock in one film (and rushed his story too, IMHO). They can easily do Venom.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
DJ Demon J said:
I whole heartedly disagree on both counts. Otto doesn't become Doc Ock until almost an hour into the movie. I thought the early scenes with him were enough to establish his character. Molina is such a good actor that you don't really need a ton of scenes to make the audience get the point. That scene with him and his wife drinking tea was great stuff. You really start to feel sympathetic towards his character at that point.
They could do Venom in one movie but it couldn't be done well and that's why people are trying to say. At the very least you would need two films. The first film would cover the symbiote suit and allow Spidey to use it for a bit to fight the villain and at the end of the movie he would get rid of it. Then they could show Eddie Brock stumbling upon it and forshadow into the next film where he becomes Venom (the same way they did with Harry/GG2).
Having the Spidey symbiote suit and Venom in the same movie would be too much. If Spiderman has the suit for the first half of the movie then who does he fight to test the suit out on? Regular thugs? And if so what difference would that make? Spidey could beat regular thugs no problem both before and after acquiring the suit. They need to show some sort of a before/after difference in Spidey's powers. Do they bring in another villain for the first half of the movie to accomplish that (someone who Spidey can't beat early on but after he gets the suit he can beat him)? And if so doesn't that just hurt the movie in the end? Neither the symbiote suit story nor Venom would get anywhere near full screen time. That would just piss off Venom fans.
Unrelated to your comment but my early prediction for Spidey villains:
Spiderman 3 - Hobgoblin or GG2 only. During the movie Harry manages to hurt Doc Connors who loses his arm. The arc with Peter, MJ, and Harry wraps up.
Spiderman 4 - Doc Connors tries to restore the arm that he lost b/c of Harry and becomes the lizard. Throw in some girl trouble via the Black Cat to cover the more personal aspects of the film.
Spiderman 5 - Mysterio / Symbiote suit
Spiderman 6 - Venom
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
BuddyChrist83 said:
For some reason I thought he had both. If he only had one I sure as hell didn't notice it but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Agent Dormer
Dirty Drinking Smoker
BuddyChrist83 said:
No credit? For shame.
Also, Scarlet as Black Cat... I could live with that.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
BuddyChrist83 said:
Well that sucks. Seeing him lose the arm would have been much better for the Lizard's story in the films. Oh well, then drop the line about him losing the arm. But I still don't think we will see Lizard until part 4.
DJ Demon J
Banned
JC10001 said:
Look how much time they spent exploring Norman Osborn's fall into madness throughout the first film. It was secondary only to Peter Parker's story.
Doc Ock is like, third or fourth tier in importance in Spidey 2. Where's the conflict in the movie? Science experiment goes wrong, all of a sudden Otto is bad (due to tentacles AI? Bendis, shame on you) and becomes a criminal? There was no real deep connection between Spider-Man/Peter Parker and Doc Ock/Otto Octavius. A 5-minute tea party scene is not enough character development for the two of them.
About Venom, who says the movie has to have Spidey wear the symbiote suit? Yea, it wouldn't be completely true to the comics, but then again, in the comics Spidey acquired it in an alternate dimension in Secret Wars, which can't be done in a movie. The webshooters were changed to organic webshooters, so why not just have the symbiote ride in on a spaceship like the cartoon, have JJJ's son killed by it on Earth(but only after a conflict involving Spider-Man, so Jameson can truly have a real reason to hate Spider-Man and want him dead--and cause more interesting conflicts for Peter Parker's life).
Have Eddie Brock be introduced at the beginning of the film and show how he either resents Peter for outdoing other reporters or have him covering the spaceship story and shooting pictures of the Spidey/symbiote fight. Then have Spidey appear to defeat the symbiote and leave it for dead only to have Eddie wander over to take more pictures and get merged. Spend a little time developing some more relationship/feud with Peter Parker at the Bugle, then move on to symbiote-induced madness (hey, if tentacles AI can make Doc Ock crazy, the symbiote surely can) and set up the conflict. If Raimi must have Harry as GG in the film at least wait until more then halfway through after exploring his character more and showing the downfall of Oscorp (perhaps due to loss of funding due to the spaceship incident being blamed on faulty Oscorp materials/planning). Have Harry as GG join forces with Venom to tackle Spider-Man but ultimately be unable to kill him when Venom beats Spidey down enough provide the opportunity. Then have Venom kill Harry, giving Peter the rage needed to bitchslap Venom.
This could easily be done in 2 hours, given what little time was devoted to Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2, and given that most of the time spent in Spider-Man 2 (Peter's normal life/relationship with MJ) has already been covered, Venom in Spidey 3 makes the most sense to me.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
DJ Demon J said:
That's all well and good but if they put Venom in Spiderman 3 then where do they go from there? For many people Venom is the ultimate Spiderman villain. Using him too soon would effectively kill the franchise because anyone that came after him would seem like a big step down. All that could be left is probably a Spidey/Venom/Carnage movie. You would be missing out on so many good villains its not even funny (Lizard, Electro, Sandman/Hydroman, Mysterio, Kingpin).
Lizard is one of the classic villains so he should get some screen time at some point.
Mysterio would make an interesting villain for Spidey to face but they'd have to do something about that outfit.
Sandman or Hydroman would be a sight to behold. Imagine all the effects that they could do with those two.
Kingpin is another major player that should not be overlooked. For the moment, Sony doesn't have the rights to him but these movies are going to be around for years to come. Who's to say that in 5 years or so they won't have the rights by then?
Shocker would be pretty scary/intense on screen imo if they beefed him up from the comics. Getting electrocuted is inherently scary. Show him electrocuting a bunch of happless civilians and the audience would definitely sit up and take notice.
DJ Demon J
Banned
JC10001 said:
Lizard is not a character that can pull an audience for 2 hours. Nor is a rehash of GG. And no GG/Lizard team-up either please.
Yea, Venom is a big ticket, that's why he makes sense in part 3. You need to keep raising the stakes. Most of the movie audience is conditioned for 3 movies anyway. A fourth movie in a series is extremely rare (in fact, has there ever been a 4 or more movie series in film before? Harry Potter's upcoming 4th film is my only recollection).
DJ Demon J
Banned
Razoric said:Alien: Resurrection
Ah yes, and now I remember why it's so easily forgotten.
Spike Spiegel
Member
About Scarlett Johansson as Black Cat... I don't think so. I'd much rather see the part of Felicia Hardy go to an actress with the look (and acting ability) of an "older vixen" character. I'm talking about the kind of young, sexy actress that can realistically play the mid/late 20s age range, against Peter and MJ's supposedly early 20s. I haven't seen Scarlett Johansson's work, but from her bio it seems she's played nothing but your typical teenagers.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
DJ Demon J said:
Yeah but you are thinking about these movies in a Batman sort of way. In the Batman films the villains always took center stage. That's not the case with the Spiderman movies. The Spiderman movies are actually about Spiderman (which is in large part why they are so good)... and not the villain. The villains are not as integral a part of this series as they were to the Batman series. Just look at Spidey 2 - Doc Ock, who is a great villain, is hardly even in it.
DJ Demon J said:
Some genres are more prone to having a fourth movie than others. Horror immediately springs to mind but comic book movies also lend themselves well to multiple sequels. The problem is, very few comic book movie series have performed well enough at the box office to warrant a third sequel (and that's because the movies themselves started to suck, not because the audience necessarily grew tired of them).
For starters (and I'm not saying all of these are good):
Lethal Weapon 4
ANOS 4: The Dream Master
Friday the 13th Part 4: The Final Chapter (gotta love the sub title on this one)
Batman & Robin
Superman 4
Sudden Impact (Dirty Harry 4)
Star Wars - different trilogies but the same series
Star Trek IV (the one with the whales)
Alien Ressurection
Indiana Jones 4 (supposedly)
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Willco said:
Yeah, I did mean Electro. I think he could make a solid villain if they put a little work into modifying his costume (which is too ridiculous for words) and made him more of a badass.
I feel Electro probably has the worst origin and costume of all the Spidey rogues. Even worse than the Shocker who looks like a walking sofa set on vibrate.
My gut says that Sony will probably force Sam to use The Lizard and Green Goblin, but my heart says Sam is trying to do Black Cat and Green Goblin. At least, that's what I'd do. Plus, my idea has a great scene for THE SHOCKER!
I'm willing to bet we get the Hobgoblin instead of the Green Goblin, too.
I'd also love to see The Sandman and Hydroman in some form or another in the films, so that in the end, they can merge with each other by accident and DIE A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE DEATH.
My gut says that Sony will probably force Sam to use The Lizard and Green Goblin, but my heart says Sam is trying to do Black Cat and Green Goblin. At least, that's what I'd do. Plus, my idea has a great scene for THE SHOCKER!
I'm willing to bet we get the Hobgoblin instead of the Green Goblin, too.
I'd also love to see The Sandman and Hydroman in some form or another in the films, so that in the end, they can merge with each other by accident and DIE A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE DEATH.
Agent Dormer said:
I couldn't...that'd be a God awful choice. Bad enough they chose Dunst for MJ (should've gone with Dominique Swain, been saying that for three years)...I don't see Scarlet as Black Cat at all.
DJ Demon J said:
You're joking right?
Alien
Star Wars
Jaws
Rocky
Lethal Weapon
Death Wish
Superman
Batman
That's just off the top of my head.
Sandman, Hydroman and Rhyno are all waaaaaay too cheesey to be used, and the first two would be far too difficult to convey anyhow. No way I'd touch 'em. I'd sooner see Vulture, and he's cheesey as hell too.
I also don't see why Eddie Brock needs to be Venom. We haven't seen his ass till now anyway. And without the symbiote, who really gives a shit about him? Flash is a more relevant character in the Spidey universe, and nobody gave a sniff that he wasn't in the sequel. Jameson Jr as Venom would be just fine with me. When Venom should show up is another question entirely.
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