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[viveks86]

To follow up, if you're saying something doesn't require skill, and some are calling it out as being frustrating, isn't that the worst of both worlds?

That's exactly what I'm saying. I just didn't want to qualify it as "bad" because my personal experience was smooth, if not good. I try not to judge based on others' experience when I have my own.

I don't want to presume, but it sounds like you're couching a criticism of people's skill to deflect criticism of something you're saying shouldn't take skill.

You are seeing a contradiction because you presumed I'm deflecting criticism when I'm not. Just thinking out loud. Even I dismissed the theory that it could be an issue of skill.

I can't comment on it specifically, but I've played bad stealth sections in games that weren't challenging, but I still recognized how poorly implemented they were.

Trust me on this one. If you play that section, and you don't face any challenge, you wouldn't recognize anything. To me it felt like an interlude between firefights. A breather with no real expectations from the player. Which is why I was surprised to see so many complaints around it.

I think he is also missing that it's mostly not fun button pushing or it'll be pushing a button just for the sake of pushing a button to give the illusion of interaction. There's no consequence and the reward of seeing the next cut scene is weak since the story isn't that good it's not even good for an average video game story and that's a low bar to jump.

Fun? Who said anything about fun? Have you read my review? I didn't like the game. The only reason I'm here is to understand how fellow gaffers are responding to it.

 

[Coconut]

Trust me on this one. If you play that section, and you don't face any challenge, you wouldn't recognize anything. To me it felt like an interlude between firefights. A breather with no real expectations from the player. Which is why I was surprised to see so many complaints around it.

then make it a cut scene and not playable if there's not supposed to be a game to the section.

 

[viveks86]

then make it a cut scene and not playable if there's not supposed to be a game to the section.

That's like saying no games should have any walking sections because sections without deep gameplay are inherently meaningless. If the stealth sections are to be removed, that should be because they supposedly have bad mechanics, not because they are not deep.


Also, here's my review, if you are interested. You'd find a lot of what you said in there

I also found it extremely stupid that Galahad know if a guard has a key or not even when shooting a guard 20 metres away.

That whole section is just a bunch of dumb idea mashed together.

Yeah that brought a chuckle out of me too. May be Galahad knew what a falling guard with keys in his pocket would sound like!

 

[Crud]

Rich Evans really loved the ending on the Previously Recorded Twitch stream...

"This is terrible" XD

I laughed way to hard. Is he hitting something at the end?

 

[jet1911]

Yeah that brought a chuckle out of me too. May be Galahad knew what a falling guard with keys in his pocket would sound like!

Who knows, he's pretty old so maybe he does know!

 

[viveks86]

It's frustrating because it doesn't allow for experimentation, mostly every stealth game (or games that had stealth mechanics) allow you to attack the situation from multiple directions, using different tactics to find an ideal solution. At least that's what good stealth sequences do.

Ahh, so that's probably why people are finding it frustrating. I must have lucked out with the approach. I went for the kill as soon as I saw anyone in the vicinity. Seemed to work every time so I kept at it and, soon enough, it was over!

 

[meanspartan]

Just finished it on hard.

This game was ultimately a letdown, but very much worth the $3 it cost me to redbox it.

I LOVED the feel of the guns, nice and meaty. But the ai was dumb and all logic was thrown out with that ending, which was a bad version of TDK ending.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Rich Evans really loved the ending on the Previously Recorded Twitch stream...

"This is terrible" XD

Is that the Red Letter Media guy?

I'd like to watch this if it is.

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

Finished the game. Really enjoyed it. Will definitely play the sequel.

Spoiler

Lord Hayes. I'm coming for you.

On a side note. I want to congratuate the order on what must be the highest completion percentage of a game ever. I've never seen so many people argue over length and post completion times when statistically most people never finish any game.

 

[RoboPlato]

On a side note. I want to congratuate the order on what must be the highest completion percentage of a game ever. I've never seen so many people argue over length and post completion times when statistically most people never finish any game.

I know you are joking but according to trophy data 30.3% of PSN connected players have completed it which is notably higher than most games. Usually it's in the 20-25% range.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Presume all you want presumptions should be left for things that aren't trying to tell a story which supposedly this was the games main focus.

That's idiotic. We know it's the real Lafayette. We know he'd be over 100 by 1886. We know he works with an organization in possession of the means to extend human lifespans. This is not a mystery that requires a leap of logic, and expository info dumps wouldn't improve the game. If you want everything to be made explicit in your storytelling I'm sure there is some children's programming available where you live.

 

[Coconut]

That's like saying no games should have any walking sections because sections without deep gameplay are inherently meaningless. If the stealth sections are to be removed, that should be because they supposedly have bad mechanics, not because they are not deep.


Also, here's my review, if you are interested. You'd find a lot of what you said in there



Yeah that brought a chuckle out of me too. May be Galahad knew what a falling guard with keys in his pocket would sound like!

I never said deep gameplay there just needs to be something to it. I think saying that that part is a breather section excuses that dev from not trying to make an interesting game scenario. And yes I do think a lot of games are bloated with these walking sequences that don't contribute to a GAME. Now say you had a walking sequence that shows you the layout of a level then that information helps you later in when the actual game part starts well that would be just fine with me.

As for Brad above me if the game is trying to be cinematic the rule for film is show don't tell. The game neither shows nor tells you that information you are presuming. So it's not even doing a good job at being bad story telling.

 

[BadAss2961]

The stealth section near the end of the game,

Spoiler

the one in the garden

, is, in my opinion, the worst section of a game I have played in years. The stealth in this game is utter garbage.

If I was reviewing this game, this terrible section of gameplay would lower the games score by at least 2 or 3 points.

What a joke.

That was one of my favorite parts in the game. On my first try, I snuck around and killed every last enemy in the first section without the crossbow.

 

[viveks86]

I never said deep gameplay there just needs to be something to it. I think saying that that part is a breather section excuses that dev from not trying to make an interesting game scenario.

No it doesn't. Breather sections need to be as carefully designed as any other section. In many games, it can make or break it. I really enjoyed the down time in TLOU, RDR and SotC. You weren't really doing much in terms of "Game" in any of them other than getting from point A to point B, but it had a positive effect on me in terms of pacing, light exploration and quiet moments of reflection.

For the Order, I enjoyed a few of the earlier breather sections and was bored with others (for reasons stated in my review). The particular stealth section seemed ok, because I did not end up spending too much time on it. I was indifferent to it. However, from the general feedback I've read so far, it seems mixed at best. All I was trying to find out is why. Whether it was the stealth kill mechanic/level design/enemy placement/difficulty/repetition or a bit of everything that bothered people. It came across as a breather section to me and I stated it as such. Clearly that wasn't the case for many others.

 

[Brad Grenz]

As for Brad above me if the game is trying to be cinematic the rule for film is show don't tell. The game neither shows nor tells you that information you are presuming. So it's not even doing a good job at being bad story telling.

That's exactly what the game did. You're the one complaining no one came out and told you what was happening. You've been given all the information you need to form a conclusion. Asking the audience to use their brain is never something I would criticize any game, movie, book, television show, song, play or poem for doing. Too few creators in this medium are willing to take a chance on the intelligence of their audience.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

That stealth section towards the end was disappointing for me. I died once trying to stealth melee my way through it then said fuck it and just shot everyone with the crossbow from far away. It was so easy and boring. The only part I enjoyed about it was looking at the sweet scenery.

I would have at least appreciated more kill animations to make going the stealth route more satisfying and varied. Maybe a few weapon options like some tranq darts or some wire to choke some people out. Even the option to make sounds to draw people away or something would have been nice.

 

[stryke]

Some stuff from RaD artists

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149706

 

[Vasilisk 2038]

For me the final stealth section was a bit of fresh air, being kind of open and having to explore a little. I can't believe some people here encounter the stealth QTE hard, its timing 101 XD.

 

[Andronicus]

For me the final stealth section was a bit of fresh air, being kind of open and having to explore a little. I can't believe some people here encounter the stealth QTE hard, its timing 101 XD.

the old "this is shit"...because i suck lol

 

[BadAss2961]

For me the final stealth section was a bit of fresh air, being kind of open and having to explore a little. I can't believe some people here encounter the stealth QTE hard, its timing 101 XD.

And it's not even like the timing changes or anything. It's just an added measure on what's usually a simple button press.

 

[Always-honest]

With only 5 arrows? You can't pass an area with that amount of ammunition.

Spoiler

Haha I din't know there was a place to refill ammo of the crossbow in my first playthrough. So yeah, it was pretty much useless for me

Didn't know that either, but some you kill with your hands (the first few are easy) and some with the crossbow. I kinda liked that section... Haha

 

[Number45]

I breezed that section on my first run, but for some reason (most likely complacency) it took me several attempts on my trophy run. I actually didn't mind it - but for the next game they need to give you some leeway when spotted.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

The story took a major nose dive after Chapter 5. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt in hopes of a rebound, but I don't see it improving much.

It's sad because before the event that happened at the end of 5 I was enjoying it.

So far the Lightning Arc Rife has easily been the best part of the game.

 

[wouwie]

Finished it yesterday. I was watching the credits with very mixed emotions. The last half of the game felt rushed and unfinished and there are a lot of loose ends story wise. It was obviously setup for a sequel. The story in itself wasn't anything special and relied on clichés a lot (half of the game was an angry dude on revenge). For a game that wanted to be a movie, the story didn't stand out in any way, nor did the characters. The gameplay was very mediocre. The presentation, setting and atmosphere were amazing. All in all, i'd rate it 6/10.

I hope for a sequel though, but RAD needs to have a long hard think of what a (good) game is.

Some things i'd like to see in a sequel:
- keep the presentation: visuals, music, sound effects, setting, voice acting,... are superb!
- guns felt great and satisfying. Expand on that because they were well done!
- scrap all the QTE gameplay. Seriously, it was never fun and it will never be fun. Games like Uncharted and TLOU have proven that you don't need QTE's to make fun AND cinematic games.
- add proper traversal gameplay (and not the "press X and watch the rest as animation" traversal)
- improve the AI
- i don't mind cutscenes at all but the balance between the amount of cutscenes and gameplay has to shift in favour of gameplay.
- provide much more interesting level design (for the shoout-out parts): verticality, bigger areas, more ways to tackle a battle,...
- make the world more interesting and fun to explore. The world felt empty. The background story provided through newspapers, photos, writing,... was barely readable (way too small)
- get rid of the black borders. It's a gimmick and it doesn't add anything to the game. It only takes away precious field of view
- i prefer a camera that is further away from the character (like Uncharted)
- focus on gameplay, gameplay, gameplay, gameplay!

I will go through it again on hard and without aim assist because i want to understand the story, the lore and the characters better. I feel like i missed a lot of info and story bits. And i want to see some of those beautiful settings again. In fact, i will keep my copy. I have a feeling i might load it up once in a while, go through a couple of chapters,... just for the presentation alone. From a visual point of view, it's definately amongst my favourite games ever.

 

[suikodan]

I am surprised that I don't see much complaints over the 16:10 format of the game. To be honest, I felt almost insulted that there is now a game in that format. I don't loathe the format except that with a 16:9 TV, it doesn't look that good with black bars on top/bottom of the screen and in that case, I wonder if it was used to save processing power over the very nice graphics.

If so, it reminded me of the first screens of SF2 on the Sega Genesis where parts of the screen were black to save processing power.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Predictable tired boring bullshit. The plot managed to get even worse.

 

[Ricky_R]

I am surprised that I don't see much complaints over the 16:10 format of the game. To be honest, I felt almost insulted that there is now a game in that format. I don't loathe the format except that with a 16:9 TV, it doesn't look that good with black bars on top/bottom of the screen and in that case, I wonder if it was used to save processing power over the very nice graphics.

If so, it reminded me of the first screens of SF2 on the Sega Genesis where parts of the screen were black to save processing power.

I had no issues with it, although at times the one of top got in the way of my view while in cover. A couple of seconds in and my eyes didn't register them.

About why they did it, we have quotes from devs saying that they started development with that aspect ratio in mind. They got a welcome boost in performance of course, but they began production with that aspect ratio in mind to complement their obvious filmic/cinematic visual experience. It's on you to take their statements at face value.

 

[antitrop]

So far the Lightning Arc Rife has easily been the best part of the game.

It looks amazing, but doesn't take any skill to use. You can one-shot enemies from cover just by shooting blind, you don't even have to aim.

 

[Melchiah]

Some stuff from RaD artists

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149706

This one evokes memories of Resident Evil.

 

[bosseye]

I had no issues with it, although at times the one of top got in the way of my view while in cover. A couple of seconds in and my eyes didn't register them.

Same here. I hated the black bars in The Evil Within, they were a real detriment to the experience for me, but The Order; didn't notice them at all once I started playing. Just goes to show they can be a non issue if the game and FoV is designed with that aspect ratio in mind.

Still love this game. I played it and traded it within a few days, but it was brilliant all the way through. Even all the bits that everyone else is moaning about I liked. Even the 'stealth' in the garden! I'll pick it up again for peanuts in a year or so when I've forgotten most of it and fancy playing through again.

 

[Jito]

Is that the Red Letter Media guy?

I'd like to watch this if it is.

Yeh it is Rich "OH MAY GAWD" Evans from RLM, him and Jack play a ton of games for their Previously Recorded Youtube and Twitch streams. Worth checking out if you enjoy RLM.

 

[Coconut]

It looks amazing, but doesn't take any skill to use. You can one-shot enemies from cover just by shooting blind, you don't even have to aim.

Yeah I'm really confused by people thinking the guns were neat or interesting in this game considering how little time you get with the more creative ones and how all of them are just insta kill weapons.

That's exactly what the game did. You're the one complaining no one came out and told you what was happening. You've been given all the information you need to form a conclusion. Asking the audience to use their brain is never something I would criticize any game, movie, book, television show, song, play or poem for doing. Too few creators in this medium are willing to take a chance on the intelligence of their audience.

Where in the game does it say new members get a small taste of the black water to increase their life spans before they are rewarded their own pendant flask?

 

[BigTnaples]

So I know I am a little late here but finally picked this up and Holy shit.




This game is unbelievable. Like, literally, my mind knows it's real-time but I keep thinking its not. Spectacular visuals. Haven't been wowed like this by Visual fidelity since Crysis 1.


Insane.


Also, I seem to be having fun? The guns feel great, and the feedback from enemies is satisfying. Still early on though.


So far so good, I can see myself really enjoying this.

 

[mrklaw]

Just finished it. Was a great game and very enjoyable. some comments on specific parts:


- Didn't like the forced stealth sections, especially as they were so dark. I used the crossbow but then didn't notice it had limited ammo so I ran out. Also it was stupid stealth because as long as they were facing away from you, you could run towards them and they didn't notice. But if you got too close while walking towards them, the button prompt disappeared and you get discovered. Anyway it was dumb.

-

Spoiler

Vampires

, really!? Ok well that was an interesting reveal, but Galahad's reaction was too direct and felt out of place.

- scene mid-way through the credits was great. It was like Galahad was

Spoiler

Victorian London Batman, looking down on a fucked city

- ending got to me nicely. Any story which has an

Spoiler

injustice

against a main character always triggers something in me.


Overall loved it. Annoyed I didn't get the platinum though. I was looking in all the nooks and crannies throughout the game but didn't get any of the trophies for objects/recordings/newspapers etc. No idea where they are either so not sure if I can be bothered to redo. The kill trophies should be ok - although I'm not sure I ever saw a grenade flying through the air, only the X prompt when it had landed. But that chapter near the end with the big confrontation should let me mop those up.

Is there a walkthrough for collectibles? Ideally with video in case it jogs my memory?

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Overall loved it. Annoyed I didn't get the platinum though. I was looking in all the nooks and crannies throughout the game but didn't get any of the trophies for objects/recordings/newspapers etc. No idea where they are either so not sure if I can be bothered to redo. The kill trophies should be ok - although I'm not sure I ever saw a grenade flying through the air, only the X prompt when it had landed. But that chapter near the end with the big confrontation should let me mop those up.

Is there a walkthrough for collectibles? Ideally with video in case it jogs my memory?

I did the grenade trophy replaying

Spoiler

the ambush

in chapter 3.

Spoiler

On the third or fourth wave a grenadier enemy will appear on the left and right side opposite your starting position. I took out the shotgunner then hid up the small stairs just before the sandbag cover position, so I was reasonably well covered from most of the enemies but could still see across to the grenadier on the left. Then I just peaked out until I saw his throw animation and blacksighted the grenade he let loose.

As for a collectibles walkthrough I didn't use it myself but powerpyx guides are usually excellent for that sort of stuff, well edited and easy to follow.

 

[jediyoshi]

I also found it extremely stupid that Galahad know if a guard has a key or not even when shooting a guard 20 metres away.

It holds up better though than either forcing the player to visually bookmark every single location of a guard to then return to after you've finished clearing out the section. Pretty sure there'd be a more negative reaction if you had to end up scavenging for dark dressed corpses on the ground in the middle of the night.

 

[Jito]

It holds up better though than either forcing the player to visually bookmark every single location of a guard to then return to after you've finished clearing out the section. Pretty sure there'd be a more negative reaction if you had to end up scavenging for dark dressed corpses on the ground in the middle of the night.

RAD could have just designed an encounter that makes sense then, Galahad needs to get to the door to use his lockpicking tool he's had all game maybe?

 

[ckohler]

For me the final stealth section was a bit of fresh air, being kind of open and having to explore a little. I can't believe some people here encounter the stealth QTE hard, its timing 101 XD.

I never had a problem with the stealth QTE, either.

However, the problem with the stealth section you're referring to was that you were forced to redo the whole thing if you got spotted once. It might have been better to have a grapple mini-game or just a full-on shootout instead of completely starting all over.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

RAD could have just designed an encounter that makes sense then, Galahad needs to get to the door to use his lockpicking tool he's had all game maybe?

wish you'd paid attention and noticed that the door required a special elaborate key.. They even had a cutscene that screamed:: this is not a normal key!!!!!!!


Anyway on the stealth qte thing:: it was pretty easy to get right after failing it once. I had high hopes upon gliding downwards on that grapple line but. ...Yeah

 

[Jito]

wish you'd paid attention and noticed that the door required a special elaborate key.. They even had a cutscene that screamed:: this is not a normal key!!!!!!!


Anyway on the stealth qte thing:: it was pretty easy to get right after failing it once. I had high hopes upon gliding downwards on that grapple line but. ...Yeah

Oh of course, how silly of me! That random backdoor was immune to Galahads lock picking tool. I'm surprised you are trying to actually justify the poor design.

 

[jediyoshi]

RAD could have just designed an encounter that makes sense then, Galahad needs to get to the door to use his lockpicking tool he's had all game maybe?

I don't disagree, but the tradeoff in player dissonance did end up in a slightly less linear section I much preferred that pre-door stuff to the stealthy courtyard encounters after it.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Oh of course, how silly of me! That random backdoor was immune to Galahads lock picking tool. I'm surprised you are trying to actually justify the poor design.

And I'm surprised at your overreaction to my pointing out your erroneous observation? Okay then,back to your rant.. Don't mind me.

 

[Jito]

And I'm surprised at your overreaction to my pointing out your erroneous observation? Okay then,back to your rant.. Don't mind me.

Ha I was plenty aware RAD had thought of some asinine reason as to why the lock pick wouldn't work all of a sudden, so no need to worry. Just you pointing it out like I'd missed was funny as the explanation is just another poor design choice. There could have been plenty of ways for them to create a forced stealth section without suddenly making a tool used all game useless.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Ha I was plenty aware RAD had thought of some asinine reason as to why the lock pick wouldn't work all of a sudden, so no need to worry. Just you pointing it out like I'd missed was funny as the explanation is just another poor design choice. There could have been plenty of ways for them to create a forced stealth section without suddenly making a tool used all game useless.

*shrugs* the game has enough general flaws in the gameplay department without going into such fine detail

 

[Coconut]

I never had a problem with the stealth QTE, either.

However, the problem with the stealth section you're referring to was that you were forced to redo the whole thing if you got spotted once. It might have been better to have a grapple mini-game or just a full-on shootout instead of completely starting all over.

What's funny is after that stealth stuff a shoot out breaks out which makes the stealth section completely pointless!

 

[Jito]

*shrugs* the game has enough general flaws in the gameplay department without going into such fine detail

Oh yeh too right, but it's funny to highlight such a section like this were RAD clearly threw logic out the window for a boring forced stealth section.

 

[doomquake]

I am surprised that I don't see much complaints over the 16:10 format of the game. To be honest, I felt almost insulted that there is now a game in that format. I don't loathe the format except that with a 16:9 TV, it doesn't look that good with black bars on top/bottom of the screen and in that case, I wonder if it was used to save processing power over the very nice graphics.

If so, it reminded me of the first screens of SF2 on the Sega Genesis where parts of the screen were black to save processing power.

21:9
I liked it cause it fit perfect on my wackass 21:9 lg monitor hehe.

 

[Lord Error]

Yeah I'm really confused by people thinking the guns were neat or interesting in this game considering how little time you get with the more creative ones and how all of them are just insta kill weapons.

I didn't think the Arc gun was all that great, other than for the gore factor, but the Thermite gun was creative and incredibly fun to use - especially when you are faced with an opponent that has it. I said it before, it's my favorite weapon of any game.

 

[BumRush]

Bought it last night, playing tonight, can't...fuckin...wait.

 

[Coconut]

I didn't think the Arc gun was all that great, other than for the gore factor, but the Thermite gun was creative and incredibly fun to use - especially when you are faced with an opponent that has it. I said it before, it's my favorite weapon of any game.

I never found the thermite gun to be satisfying or implemented in a way that it functioned better than the standard hand gun.