Support NeoGAF

[kyser73]

Goddamit, I've still got 4 hours of work and 2 hours of child-related nonsense before I can play.

Anyone in the market for a pair of kids? Well behaved, one of them fully house trained, the other not so much. Very cute, never misbehave*

Would be willing to part with them on a trial basis for bedtime routine this evening.

*This might be a fib.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

It would be nice I am sure. Just imagine you and I, director and video editor for Ready at Dawn. Setting the world on fire one trailer at a time.

 

[IndoAssassin]

So it's official, can't make AAA games with just 80 people and have it be worth $60. I wonder if the game was $40, would the reviewers have still been harsh.

Either way looking forward to tomorrow.

 

[gotstrangepowers]

Anyone know what time zone triggers this games release? Will it be available at 12:01 Eastern? Pacific?

Thanks in advance!

Pacific

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

Wow. That launch trailer be spoilery! Haha. Nope. Not watching that. Watched the first 30 secs.

 

[RoboPlato]

Wow. That launch trailer be spoilery! Haha. Nope. Not watching that. Watched the first 30 secs.

Launch trailers are spoiler trailers. You should know this by now.

 

[rain elbows]

I'm about 3.5 hours in and I'm really enjoying it. I understand the gripes about the in-engine cutscenes being unskippable, but I'm really enjoying the story and want to watch them. I suppose it all boils down to expectations. If you're coming to this game looking for a multiplayer shooter or an open world game you're not going to find it. The game isn't perfect by any means, but my experience is far more positive than the bulk of the reviews I've read.

Spoiler..

Spoiler

One of my favorite parts thus far has been the battle versus the Lycan in the hospital. One of the most visually stunning sequences I've ever seen in a console game.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

So it's official, can't make AAA games with just 80 people and have it be worth $60. I wonder if the game was $40, would the reviewers have still been harsh.

I dunno, Sucker Punch did a pretty good job.

And I think about 125 people worked on The Order.

One thing that really bugs me is the flow of the launch trailer. Like, there's a shot where Izzy yells, "what's happening" or something as Galahad runs to a ladder, and then it changes shots, and then changes shots again, just fucking randomly and then it jumps to Lafayette talking about kids and then there's quick montage shots, it's just a total mess.

 

[GnawtyDog]

So it's official, can't make AAA games with just 80 people and have it be worth $60. I wonder if the game was $40, would the reviewers have still been harsh.

120ish by the end of development. It depends on the genre and scope being tackled. If you want to do an Uncharted or TLOU you better have more than 150 and hope it turns 6/10 as good in your first try (Crystal Dynamics TR2013).

 

[M.W.]

Edit: beaten

 

[FenDozer]

Pacific

Nooooooooooo!

Now I absolutely won't be able to start the download tonight. I'll be forced to wait until morning and maybe not play for about 2 hours after I start downloading...

I know this game got awful reviews, but I'm really looking forward to it. It seems like a game I will really like. Heck, I enjoyed Ryse when most did not...

 

[QaaQer]

Did I mention metacritic?

I mentioned finding reviewers that you can trust and maybe even sync up with your opinions sometimes.

GTA5 is such a big, blockbuster, mainstream title that of course some people won't like it, but to say it shouldn't be rated highly is foolish. The game is clearly very high quality and well made, and no argument can be made that people rated it highly for any reason but for that they simply enjoyed it a ton.

Sure there is, like fear of death/rape threats, which happened when one critic gave it a 9.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

Launch trailers are spoiler trailers. You should know this by now.

Should know that.....but I need hype.


I feed off hype.

 

[RoboPlato]

120ish by the end of development. It depends on the genre and scope being tackled. If you want to do an Uncharted or TLOU you better have more than 150 and hope it turns 6/10 as good in your first try (Crystal Dynamics TR2013).

It was 120 inlcuding contractors. The core teams at Sucker Punch and RAD were about the same size for most of development (around 100) but SP had layoffs after FL released so they're back down to 80 or so.

 

[Amir0x]

I hope Amirox plays this just so he can consume the world design and attention to detail a la TLOU. The guy appreciates a well made world...(assuming this is comparable, haven't played it yet).

That's why I still plan on playing it one day. I'm guessing by Black Friday it'll be on sale for $29.99 or less, and if I couple it with my Best Buy Rewards card I'll make out. I think it'll probably definitely be worthy of one of Amir0x's lovely visual game artistry tours.

 

[IndoAssassin]

I dunno, Sucker Punch did a pretty good job.

And I think about 125 people worked on The Order.

One thing that really bugs me is the flow of the launch trailer. Like, there's a shot where Izzy yells, "what's happening" or something as Galahad runs to a ladder, and then it changes shots, and then changes shots again, just fucking randomly and then it jumps to Lafayette talking about kids and then there's quick montage shots, it's just a total mess.

Yah but Sucker Punch been making console games since PS1?

Also Infamous' open world didn't have much life to it. It was a pretty game though and fun but the world just seemed lifeless to me.

120ish by the end of development. It depends on the genre and scope being tackled. If you want to do an Uncharted or TLOU you better have more than 150 and hope it turns 6/10 as good in your first try (Crystal Dynamics TR2013).

Weird because they announced 80 people were working on it when the game was first revealed. I guess the added people were for QA and during crunch time when game got delayed?


I guess Sony trying real hard to keep development costs down if they got skeleton crews working on their AAA exclusives.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

That's why I still plan on playing it one day. I'm guessing by Black Friday it'll be on sale for $29.99 or less, and if I couple it with my Best Buy Rewards card I'll make out. I think it'll probably definitely be worthy of one of Amir0x's lovely visual game artistry tours.

We should rename you The Curator.

 

[Collateral22]

Finished it about an hour ago, here are my + and - about it that I found with my experience, which I must say I enjoyed every minute of. EDIT: Took me around 9-10 hours on hard with aim assist off.

+Gunplay: Guns feel so good to fire. The kick combined with the awesome sound of them made it feel quite authentic. I see where the KZ2 comparisons in gunplay come from.

+Weapons: Loved the design for the weapons, especially the bigger ones like the Thermite rifle and arc rifle.

+Visuals: Blew me away, from the scenery to the characters to the fidelity of the inspectable objects, everything is insanely gorgeous. If UC4 stays at 30fps with TO style motion blur for this detail I'll take it.

+Melee combat: I personally loved the dynamic melee. doing a different move each time reacting to the enviroment was very pleasing to do and not something I'd get bored of.

+Sound: As mentioned with the guns above, the small things like rain, footsteps, all the little things that make it feel immersive, as well as a very good score.

+Story: I fell in love with it the more I played it. Was exactly what I wanted and it delivered on all fronts. Seen so many reviews that it was forgettable. It's not something I will forget and is as memorable as Gears 1. I really hope RAD make this into a trilogy.

-Horde style waves of enemies: I found some of these sections dragged on a bit, could have been smaller and have more diverse encounters

-Lycan Combat:

Spoiler

The sections with the 3 lycans at a time were tedious and not needed. Could have mixed them up with human enemies in sections and have better AI for them. I did like the Elder Lycan fights though

-Lacking statistics: I would like to see what collectables I've missed and how many kills with each weapon ect.

For me it is a very enjoyable game, if you have a short attention span and need to be shooting every 2 seconds then maybe it isn't for you. If you like story driven TPS with seamless integration to "cutscenes" then it's a must play. Good job RAD on their new IP, hope it has enough to warrant a sequel. 8/10 from me. Best SP experience I've had since Wolfenstein TNO.

 

[GnawtyDog]

It was 120 inlcuding contractors. The core teams at Sucker Punch and RAD were about the same size for most of development (around 100) but SP had layoffs after FL released so they're back down to 80 or so.

Infamous SS clearly lacked content devs wanted to get in there but couldn't at the time. I'm 100% sure the combat Arena in First Light was on the back of their minds for the game but they couldn't put it in because of the release date and lack of manpower.

Hec if you look at TLOU and how its MP was at release - you could easily see where the cuts came when the game released. Hopefully Uncharted 4 doesn't get CO-OP cut.

 

[Amir0x]

Can't believe you sidestepped my all important question. Guess I'm not on your trusted list after all :'(

I just don't like telling people who is on the list because then people assume I don't like them if they're not on it. I like everyone, but some people are just too happy all the time to ever really critique something the way I need things to be criticized

Mad totes, bro.

I was considering using a slow version of Afterlife, probably sung by some girl with really breathy vocals.

Yeah. I could totally be a trailer editor.

just check how mad deep and emotionally complex this game must be due to this Official Trailer. I mean that soundtrack was used during the most emotionally devastating scene ever put on television (Six Feet Under *sob sob*), so it must mean big things about that game!

 

[BokehKing]

I got 39 seconds into the trailer got pumped and had to shut it off, the only footage I've seen since the first e3 trailer

 

[Nightengale]

Weird because they announced 80 people were working on it when the game was first revealed. I guess the added people were for QA and during crunch time when game got delayed?

The last 6 months or so of production, with the team churning out assets, getting all the final pieces of everything together, and fixing bugs from alpha-to-beta-to-QA-for-gold are often the most resource taxing.

 

[DarthWalden]

I'd recommend for people to check out the kindafunny review. I think its really well done and touch nicely on why this game is getting panned.

Those two guys wanted to love this game so much, they even said it was a "good, but flawed game". However by the end of the review they admitted after ranting about with some very valid complaints they admitted it was only probably like a 6 and that RAD were far more caught up in perfecting the engine (based on interviews they had with them early) then doing anything at all with the gameplay.

I didn't care about the reviews before that one but they made the game sound incredibly frustrating.

I'm still going to get this game, I have see these graphics in action but I feel this game as a whole is going to be a massive missed opportunity when we look back and it will be looked back on more like killzone then like ryse.

 

[excaliburps]

Just got done with a solid hour and a half of the game and my first impressions are very positive. The game oozes atmosphere, art direction is outstanding, the visuals as a whole are probably the best I've even seen on any format. Twice during my first time playing it now I've waited for a cutscene to end when it already has. These visuals are unreal, the indoors especially are beautiful.

The gunplay is responsive, has a nice feel to it with the right amount of recoil. The cover system is snappy and does the job just fine, maybe some slight issues going around corners when you have to hold a button in. The QTE's that I experienced during the opening 15 or so minutes were handled well enough. AI might become an issue, hard to tell so early in the game but they seem slow to get into cover. Level layout for the gun battles I had were done quite well with a decent amount of room to move around and flank.

The story hasn't really gotten started but it seems like it might be interesting. I had no idea it was connected to the

Spoiler

Arthurian Legend

. The character have the most glorious facial hair and the are all well acted. A lot of effort has gone into the presentation of the game.

Soooooo, so far so good but I'm not far into it and well it could go well and truly tits up.

Bold text happened to me loads. I finished it earlier this week, and I couldn't believe how good the visuals are. Easily the best now-gen game to date. It won't go "tits up," I reckon. After a few chapters in, that's what you'll be experiencing throughout the entire game...give or take a few differences.

Just a thought: play it on Hard. There's no Trophy associated with it, but it feels loads better when you die faster.

I don't think it's fair to say that. If the game was universally praised and the player enjoyed what they played, it wouldn't be questioned. However if the game received mixed reception and/or was mostly panned by critics, they must be 'justifying their purchase', because everyone knows it must be human nature to automatically love something they naturally wouldn't if they didn't spend $60 on it?

Sorry this isn't a dig at you personally Ami, I just despise that word usage. I don't need to justify my purchase of anything, if I like it, I like it.


What's funnier is that same reviewer gave Ryse a 70%.

I honestly don't see how The Order is deemed only a 4 or 5 (or even lower). Its gameplay is more than passable, graphics and audio work are outstanding, story is interesting with the lore providing a ton of more material in the future. It feels like a AAA product through and through. Did it do anything innovative or try to push as the next "big thing?" Don't think so, and not every game needs to.

What gets me is how some gamers think the majority of negative reviews SHOULD be the norm. I stand by my site's review of it, but as you can read in the toxic comments below, some fault us for giving it a higher score than the 6s, 5s, etc. it has gotten from other sites.

It's easy to recommend or not recommend The Order. If you like games like GTAV, open world, social games with multiplayer, it's not for you. You won't like it, and feel like you got ripped off $60. But for those who like cinematic games with a heavy emphasis on story, ambience and whatnot, it's worth it.

Nail on the head.

The comments about people justifying their purchase are just about as insulting as the medias handling of this games reviews. I have bought many a game that have been considered duds.

Some I enjoyed (Castlevania Lords of shadow2,Ryse) others I have not ,(Titan fall, Killzone Shadowfall) just to name a few of the more recent ones, a dud is a dud.

When review outlets hand out 2's and 4's I expect the game to monumentally horrid. I mean epic levels of bad level design, horrible controls, sounds and absolutely no fun to be found. Maybe even my character falling through the ground when I first walk out into Paris flailing his arms wildly forcing me to restart the entire game. (This actually happened) The Order does not fall into any of these categories.

No conspiracy theories but a lot of this seems very precisely targeted, malicious and disingenuous.

I honestly am befuddled by the 2's and 4's it got. Those should be for games with severely borked gameplay mechanics, buggy messes and whatnot, which The Order clearly isn't. I think this is yet another case of a game's hype working against it.

Imagine if there was no hype for it? I gather the story right now would be very different, no?

 

[QaaQer]

Do you think that Driveclub has no elements which are worthy of criticism? especially upon release?

Do you think that any site was wrong to caution readers against buying DriveClub upon release?

Are you a crazy person?

Everything worked for the reviewers, just like halo mcc. Post launch fuck ups had nothing to do with scores.

& it is not a game that would review well because it had skill gating, required practice, did not constantly make the player feel good about themselves, and it had no RPG mechanics. Reviewers do not want games that ask something of them because it is a job for them. Why do you think simcity got such good reviews? A shallow play through made them feel good about themselves, gave lots of positive feedback, and asked nothing of the player in order to succeed.

 

[0ptimusPayne]

So any word on a Custom sound profile from RAD to go with the Wireless Gold headset?!?

 

[RoboPlato]

Infamous SS clearly lacked content devs wanted to get in there but couldn't at the time. I'm 100% sure the combat Arena in First Light was on the back of their minds for the game but they couldn't put it in because of the release date and lack of manpower.

Hec if you look at TLOU and how its MP was at release - you could easily see where the cuts came when the game released. Hopefully Uncharted 4 doesn't get CO-OP cut.

I really think the combination of engine development and content creation is hitting smaller devs hard this gen. SP at least had made two inFamous games before, they had a blueprint. RAD had to start from scratch mechanically and design wise as well.

 

[Grisby]

Yeah, i've seen the XDev Community Manager posting them on her Twitter account

I always thought that they were only made for Sony employees or just one offs to celebrate the launch of a new game.

Wow, really nice collection Snake.

 

[GnawtyDog]

I really think the combination of engine development and content creation is hitting smaller devs hard this gen. SP at least had made two inFamous games before, they had a blueprint. RAD had to start from scratch mechanically and design wise as well.

Yep. Driveclub is another example.

 

[schaft0620]

Do you think that Driveclub has no elements which are worthy of criticism? especially upon release?

Do you think that any site was wrong to caution readers against buying DriveClub upon release?

Are you a crazy person?

I bought Driveclub in the first week of December for $28, My favorite PS4 game. Not sure what to complain about.

 

[viveks86]

but some people are just too happy all the time to ever really critique something the way I need things to be criticized

Ouch. You want critique? I'll show you critique. Just you wait. I will… I will…

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I just don't like telling people who is on the list because then people assume I don't like them if they're not on it. I like everyone, but some people are just too happy all the time to ever really critique something the way I need things to be criticized



just check how mad deep and emotionally complex this game must be due to this Official Trailer. I mean that soundtrack was used during the most emotionally devastating scene ever put on television (Six Feet Under *sob sob*), so it must mean big things about that game!

 

[Amir0x]

Man where do they sell such rad LittleBigPlanet keychains? I want a lot of those. A lot.

Ouch. You want critique? I'll show you critique. Just you wait. I will… I will…

Haha, I've seen you critique things before viveks. You're just a swell dude man

 

[Skux]

No bells and whistles, just the regular vanilla version for me. 90 more minutes...

 

[Nightengale]

I just don't like telling people who is on the list because then people assume I don't like them if they're not on it. I like everyone, but some people are just too happy all the time to ever really critique something the way I need things to be criticized

Give me a week. I should get my copy on the 24th, finish it by 25th, and I'll see what I can say.

 

[RoboPlato]

Man where do they sell such rad LittleBigPlanet keychains? I want a lot of those. A lot.

You and me both, Ami.

 

[gotstrangepowers]

So any word on a Custom sound profile from RAD to go with the Wireless Gold headset?!?

Nope.

Andrea said:

it is not needed - I have a Gold Set and the game sounds FREAKING AMAZING with it as it is.

https://twitter.com/andreapessino/status/567031851815297024

 

[viveks86]

Haha, I've seen you critique things before viveks. You're just a swell dude man

Awww… You are swell too!

 

[theignoramus]

Downloading it now via preorder. I know full well to expect (apparently not much) from the gameplay, but damned if I dont own a technical juggernaut like the Order. Will play it tomorrow before I head off to work.

 

[Ricky_R]

You're just a swell dude man

That's the equivalent of "I like you as a friend". Sorry Viveks, you're not on the list.

 

[hbkdx12]

I don't mind that the game is apparently on the short side. I will gladly run through it again if the gameplay is up to snuff even without a NG+ Or upgrades.

But knowing there's so many unskippable cutscenes really reduces the idea of replay ability more than any other factors.

 

[bananafactory]

That's the equivalent of "I like you as a friend". Sorry Viveks, you're not on the list.

"It's not you, it's me"

 

[Ricky_R]

"It's not you, it's me"

"I need space"

 

[bananafactory]

I need space.

We're just going down different paths.

 

[viveks86]

That's the equivalent of "I like you as a friend". Sorry Viveks, you're not on the list.

"It's not you, it's me"

You think I don't know that? When Ami gives you lemons…

...

I hate you both

 

[GnawtyDog]

"I need space"

"..and time."

 

[Ricky_R]

You think I don't know that? When Ami gives you lemons…

...

I hate you both

I for one will be waiting for your swell impressions. God knows we need them.

 

[bananafactory]

God damnit I was gonna stay out of this thread until I got the game but I just can't.

It seems to have calmed down a bit, though.

 

[stryke]

To me it's like they created a foundation they had for the game (material-based destruction in a hectic third person cinematic action game that could rival their mentors at Naughty Dog) and as development went along and got closer and closer to a realistic release date, they had to keep ticking off gameplay features as they continued to polish off their astonishing visual engine. They were like engine perfectionists. They really had something to prove, and that was that they sure as hell could compete with the best of Naughty Dog at making gorgeous console games.

Then the release date loomed and they were like 'oops so I guess the actual gameplay is basically like The Psi-Ops of the PS4'

I haven't played the game but judging from impressions and whatnot, I'm not sure I agree. Give them another year and I think they would have still delivered a product that would be pretty much the same. I don't think time was that much of a major factor when they already had their delay and went gold pretty early as well.

 

[Amir0x]

What I am looking for in impressions of The Order is how detailed the artistic direction is in the game. Like if I go into a dark room with my flashlight, is it filled with unique texture work and little notes and interesting things to analyze?

I love games with a huge amount of unique texture work, mmmm textures

Give them another year and I think they would have still delivered a product that would be pretty much the same. I don't think time was that much of a major factor when they already had their delay and went gold pretty early as well.

I mean they had announced various features that never made it into the final game in the form they said it was. And these were major features, such as a huge emphasis on material-based destruction as I keep mentioning. Things change in development, but they had five years to work on this. They made this superlative graphics engine, but to me it seems in their drive to perfect said engine and make sure every scene was visually polished to the nines, I think they had to put aside a meaningful focus on gameplay design. I think they pared it back to its most simplistic outline of gameplay possible (basic third person shoot outs mixed with endless QTEs and stealth segments) and didn't take the time to actually develop anything meaningful around those gameplay systems.