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[Nightengale]

I don't appreciate having my opinion being dismissed as not valid because it is one of the first impressions. That's bullshit.

I share the same line of thought.

The theories are valid, and there's definitely folks who are victim of it, regardless of whether or not they're aware/unaware of it. But I don't appreciate it, because it makes wrong assumptions across the board for different folks, even more so because it's not a black or white thing.

Even for people who are affected by some amount of purchase justification, something like that is a large variable shades of grey. One person affected may be drinking koolaid of the thickest concentration (nowaithisgameisawesome), while another is still legitimately able to give criticism about it, but doesn't mind aspect X that's largely criticised because there is still that small amount of purchase justification.

Or there's folks who are straight-up clean.

 

[EagleEyes]

Yeah I have to say I dont appreciate that line of thought one bit.

This is a gaming forum.

What are you talking about?

 

[Anarion07]

I wonder what happened to the motion controls for panning items around?
It's done with the left stick now

 

[Frillen]

This is shaky at best. It's possible they are actually enjoying the game. Your making an assumption.

I wasn't even looking forward to The Order that much. I got it on a discount. I'm loving it. I guess my opinion doesn't count though.

Yes, but every single one of them is enjoying it? The first impressions are always very skewed towards being overly positive, and does NOT reflect how gamers think of that specific game down the line. Listening to those overly positive first impressions is worse than this:

Because reading those impressions you would think every single game is a 9/10 or 10/10. There are hundreds of examples of this on NeoGAF, unfortunately.

 

[PBY]

Yeah. I buy lots of games right out of the gate and my opinions vary quite a bit on them.

I bought Persona Q day one and did not like it at all. Then there is a game like Destiny which I enjoyed and did not love. I was actually down right harsh on Destiny right out of the gate, as were a lot of other gaffers who we know bought it.

I picked up Far Cry 4 when it released and found it a midling experience and freely expressed that.

Amirox's theory, is just that, a theory. Don't go spreading it around like it's gospel.

I don't appreciate having my opinion being dismissed as not valid because it is one of the first impressions. That's bullshit.

Hell, I bought Majora's Mask with my N3DS just last week and I am really not enjoying it.

I'm not trying to spread it, its just a view I ascribe to. I find that OTs are generally positive, and I attribute it to this reason.

Ultimately, though, its just a set of opinions, holding up some aggregate forum views is the same as holding up some arbitrary metacritic score, at least to me.

I have my own thoughts on this game, I'll jump in this weekend and go from there. I just don't see the need to go out and cry out against reviewers (or gaffers for that matter)- theyre just people with opinions, who often write them out in longer-form than forum posts.

 

[Loudninja]

What are you talking about?

People who buy games cant give good impressions apparently.

 

[Hasney]

I had a bit of a mix up and actually ordered it from two places - Very.co.uk and a place called LoveGaming via Rakuten. Neither have arrived yet.

Damn. My Very order popped through my letterbox at 8:30am. Was pleasantly surprised.

 

[Nightengale]

Yes, but every single one of them is enjoying it? The first impressions are always very skewed towards being overly positive, and does NOT reflect how gamers think of that specific game down the line.

You didn't enjoy it.

And there's a fair amount of impressions with heavy criticism about certain aspects of the game design. That being said, that doesn't mean they find it to be a terrible game. A game doesn't need to be stellar to be enjoyable.

 

[Lucreto]

I decided to ignore the reviews and get the game during my lunch. I was lucky I did. I got the last of 30 copies sold today. They won't have anymore until Monday.

A good sign I hope for the title.

 

[HappenstanceUK]

I had a bit of a mix up and actually ordered it from two places - Very.co.uk and a place called LoveGaming via Rakuten. Neither have arrived yet.

I think im just gonna go back to paying a bit more to sites that are more reliable for release day deliveries.

 

[eFKac]

Damn SCEE done goofed.

It seems you can't change the language, and I'm stuck with a full Polish localisation :-/
I had a taste of it in a trailer and it wasn't good...

I hope it's not another Resistance 3 kind of a debacle with absolutely dreadful, forced localisation :-( I thought they've learned to give us options, they usually do and it's not like The Order barely fits onto a BluRay...

Even worse that the original voice acting is universally praised .

 

[PBY]

People who buy games cant give honest impressions apparently.

This isn't what I'm saying and you know it. But its fine, there are people who think reviewers cant give honest opinions.

I was just talking as an aggregate survey- as a whole- the opinions tend to skew in one direction. It has nothing to do with dishonesty or shadiness.

 

[bryanee]

I do like this game but a warning for others if you don't like a slower paced game then this probably isn't for you.

 

[The Elite]

Yes, but every single one of them is enjoying it? The first impressions are always very skewed towards being overly positive, and does NOT reflect how gamers think of that specific game down the line.

I'm sure you're going to find some exceptions and a few who are playing the purchase justification angle, but to dismiss the vast majority of opinions based on that assumption is wrong in my opinion.

Also, we've had threads like the Destiny OP that had a lot of people who bought the game, digitally, regretting their purchase after a few hours and being quite open about it. I think the majority are quite honest with their opinion.

Even this thread has a decent amount of varied opinions based on a few hours or days of playing the game. I don't understand how you're saying every person enjoying the game in this thread or many others for that matter. There are usually a wide range of opinions.

 

[Anarion07]

People who buy games cant give good impressions apparently.

I got Knack as a present and I loved it.
So why shouldn't I like the Order?

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

The shotgun in this game. WOW!

 

[mickcenary]

I don't agree with Amirox's theory that the opinions of people who purchased the game cannot be trusted because they are "justifying their purchase" either intentionally or not. That theory discounts the opinions of the people best suited to give them -- the people who have played the game.

And that's why he stated that it's "inherently problematic".

For every Gaf member that is legitimately capable of critiquing the game in a separate bubble devoid of not only the elements of purchase justification, but of the hype and anticipation they had leading up to it, you're going to get another two that simply aren't capable.

Like others have said, it's human nature. I've done. You've done it. We've all done it. Inherently problematic. Grains of salt errrrrwherrrrr.

 

[Loudninja]

I got Knack as a present and I loved it.
So why shouldn't I like the Order?

Damn right!

 

[Savantcore]

Damn. My Very order popped through my letterbox at 8:30am. Was pleasantly surprised.

Yeah it's definitely just the shitty postal service where I live. Bah.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Anyone who wants the game will have to buy it. Very few are going to be given it free the way most journalists are, nor will they be reviewing it on a deadline, and in such a job focused fashion. Therfore in that sense, there's more to relate to with regular GAFer impressions than there are to those of journalists.

I do think it's a bit of a cop out to disregard impressions on that basis though. When have GAFers ever been shy to doll out negative feedback on the purchases they made?

If you paid for it 'You're drinking the kool-aid' as I've read (Dictator93 (ugh) most recently, I think), and it's pretty annoying to have our opinions dismissed because of it. Especially when positive buyers are apparently lower down the scale than those who watched a Youtube playthrough and clickbait 'journalists'

 

[Koralsky]

People were earlier saying stereo setting outputs in surround, that not working for you?

Nope, i'm using Logitech z906 and can hear the voices through both front satellite speakers and center channel.

For the peoples with HDMI capable receiver - is this the way the sound mix work the this game?

 

[Ricky_R]

It's not just justifying. It's, unfortunately, straight out fanboys that go out of their way to post these first impressions that are always very positive. It's happens, ALL THE TIME. Even with mediocre games, or hell, even bad games.

If you where to listen to these first impressions and make a score out them, every single game in existence would get an 8,9 or 10/10. Which is even worse than that picture showing 90's review scale vs the modern review scale.

While there's obviously some truth to that theory, there are enough sensitive, well thought out positive impressions that don't neglect negative aspects of the game. Impressions that don't seem to be contaminated by hype. Unless the theory also includes people disguising their blind excitement with a fake grounded opinion.

If that's the case, then we need a psychiatrist to expand on the subject.

 

[The Elite]

I got Knack as a present and I loved it.
So why shouldn't I like the Order?

I can't think of a reason you shouldn't like the Order. I am enjoying it. At the same time I would say that $59.99 may be to steep a price to pay for a game with little reply value.

 

[nib95]

It's not just justifying. It's, unfortunately, straight out fanboys that go out of their way to post these first impressions that are always very positive. It's happens, ALL THE TIME. Even with mediocre games, or hell, even bad games.

If you where to listen to these first impressions and make a score out them, every single game in existence would get an 8,9 or 10/10. Which is even worse than that picture showing 90's review scale vs the modern review scale.

Frillen, you are the same person who pushed this 5 hour length number so vehemently, and even implied other GAFers were wrong or misinformed about theirs (despite there being quite a number of them). Low and behold that 5 hour number was a complete outlier that no one else on GAF has yet to even match. The averages ranging from 7-11 hours. Your disregard of GAF opinions here just seems completely misplaced.

It's pretty insulting that you not only think GAFers are incapable of measuring time, but also offering honest impressions. Not to mention that does not correlate with reality (see Destiny or WatchDogs for example). Your impressions were negative, you've been negative on this game from the beginning, so you presumably think only negative impressions are trust worthy?

 

[Eirulan]

Damn SCEE done goofed.

It seems you can't change the language, and I'm stuck with a full Polish localisation :-/
I had a taste of it in a trailer and it wasn't good...

I hope it's not another Resistance 3 kind of a debacle with absolutely dreadful, forced localisation :-( I thought they've learned to give us options, they usually do and it's not like The Order barely fits onto a BluRay...

Even worse that the original voice acting is universally praised .

Changing the console's language doesn't work..?

 

[tusken77]

RaD should have copied how audio logs are played in Bioshock.

Then use the DS4's speaker for them as well as for radio comms.

That's one of my quibbles.

- Not using the DS4 speaker really is a missed opportunity.

- For a game so beautifully cinematic I don't need instructions plastered on the screen telling me how to rotate an object I'm holding EVERY TIME.

- Playing through on Hard and I will play through again as I'm absolutely loving the experience, but I wish their were higher difficulties to look forward to. RAD, give us a Hardcore mode, please.

 

[Monkey_Plunkett]

While it is dumb to not have it in the options (actually most PC games do not have a surround option) it seems as if people have to be told it's on 5.1/7.1 in the options to actually notice they have surround.

If you didn't notice there was still fantastic surround sound and a matching sound mix to boot, then there is something wrong with your sound system.

Oh yeah I did notice it's still very well done, just pointing out the lack of options in the menu, another thing I've just realised is that I think I may have been playing with it set to Tv whilst wearing my Sony gold headset, D'oh!

 

[The Elite]

It's usually not too hard to pick out the "justification" impressions versus legitimate ones. I don't see it as that much of a problem.

 

[eFKac]

Changing the console's language doesn't work..?

Usually don't need to use such drastic measures but gonna have to give it a try, thanks.

 

[Anarion07]

That's one of my quibbles.

- Not using the DS4 speaker really is a missed opportunity.

- For a game so beautifully cinematic I don't need instructions plastered on the screen telling me how to rotate an object I'm holding EVERY TIME.

- Playing through on Hard and I will play through again as I'm absolutely loving the experience, but I wish their were higher difficulties to look forward to. RAD, give us a Hardcore mode, please.

Seconded.
There should be an option to turn off all of those hints

 

[Frillen]

I'm sure you're going to find some exceptions and a few who are playing the purchase justification angle, but to dismiss the vast majority of opinions based on that assumption is wrong in my opinion.

Also, we've had threads like the Destiny OP that had a lot of people who bought the game, digitally, regretting their purchase after a few hours and being quite open about it. I think the majority are quite honest with their opinion.

Even this thread has a decent amount of varied opinions based on a few hours or days of playing the game. I don't understand how you're saying every person enjoying the game in this thread or many others for that matter. There are usually a wide range of opinions.

I was originally quoting Nib, who was again thinking back to those 35+ posters who posted overly positive impressions regarding The Order 1886. My point is, this happens to almost every single new release, especially exclusives.

Oh, and I actually did enjoy The Order 1886, somewhat anyway. But it has quite a few shortcomings. And I've already said I would rate it around the meta, which indicates I think the game is decent/good.

 

[shinobi602]

Up to Chapter 4 right now and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I think it's absolutely fantastic. One thing, though. Have you heard about any future patches? I'd love an option to be able to remove some on-screen prompts. When I'm examining an item I really do not need to be told how to do it...every....single....time.

Will try to find out, friend of mine hasn't been very talkative the last few days...

 

[AlphaDump]

"working from home" today.

Cant wait to try this game out.

 

[nib95]

I was originally quoting Nib, who was again thinking back to those 35+ posters who posted overly positive impressions regarding The Order 1886. My point is, this happens to almost every single new release, especially exclusives.

Oh, and I actually did enjoy The Order 1886, somewhat anyway. But it has quite a few shortcomings. And I've already said I would rate it around the meta, which indicates I think the game is decent/good.

You haven't actually read the impressions have you? Seems so based on the way you're talking about them. They are actually full of complaints and negatives, they are just also overall mostly positive.

 

[Nightengale]

This isn't what I'm saying and you know it.

I get what you're saying, I don't like the approach to it.

But I'm not saying I have a better way to approach the matter from an aggregrate perspective, which is why I never bring this up as a matter of discussion/contention.

To me, my preferred approach towards this is to have a one-on-one conversation and deeper discussion about each respective impression, so that I can get a gauge of why GAFer X/Y/Z wasn't critical about factor A/B/C unlike Reviewer D/E/F.

Obviously, it's hard to do this when you're dealing with dozens of impressions. But that's why I either keep those I trust close to heart ( like what I said in the review thread before the reviews went live, Bloodworth and Dawg will be the ones I pivot my expectations towards), or ignore those that I'm not familiar with.

But I dislike making assumptions that they're affected by some purchase justification. Even if that's true, I think it's rude to go into the conversation with a preconcieved notion that they're lacking critical thinking and ability to disassociate that purchasing psychology with what they're telling us.

 

[Anarion07]

Will try to find out, friend of mine hasn't been very talkative the last few days...

Tell him we love it.

 

[DevilFox]

thats correct. only stereo or headphones.

Lucky me, I played with headphones that also have a little external sound card for 5.1.
Can't play without them anymore.

It's not just justifying. It's, unfortunately, straight out fanboys that go out of their way to post these first impressions that are always very positive. It's happens, ALL THE TIME. Even with mediocre games, or hell, even bad games.

If you where to listen to these first impressions and make a score out them, every single game in existence would get an 8,9 or 10/10. Which is even worse than that picture showing 90's review scale vs the modern review scale.

What a nice consideration you have of gaffers, like we all were some bunch of immature, 13 yo players ^^'
I totally disagree with Amirox

Eh, come on now. Here are my impressions and believe me, they have nothing to do with my wallet (€54.99 by the way). There're many examples I could do to prove this point, games payed full/low price that I hated/love and viceversa, really.
There's a value perception element, that's sure, it's why it's not uncommon to have a huge steam library of games not yet played. But it has nothing to do with a person's final opinion, not if he's mature enough.

and now that I think about it, it's pretty funny that reviewers consider a game not worth a price when they get it for free Well anyway, I agree with nib95.

 

[nib95]

That's one of my quibbles.

- Not using the DS4 speaker really is a missed opportunity.

- For a game so beautifully cinematic I don't need instructions plastered on the screen telling me how to rotate an object I'm holding EVERY TIME.

- Playing through on Hard and I will play through again as I'm absolutely loving the experience, but I wish their were higher difficulties to look forward to. RAD, give us a Hardcore mode, please.

100% agree with every one of these. Shinobi please pass these suggestions on to RAD if you can.

 

[PBY]

I get what you're saying, I don't like the approach to it.

But I'm not saying I have a better way to approach the matter from an aggregrate perspective, which is why I never bring this up as a matter of discussion/contention.

To me, my preferred approach towards this is to have a one-on-one conversation and deeper discussion about each respective impression, so that I can get a gauge of why GAFer X/Y/Z wasn't critical about factor A/B/C unlike Reviewer D/E/F.

Obviously, it's hard to do this when you're dealing with dozens of impressions. But that's why I either keep those I trust close to heart ( like what I said in the review thread before the reviews went live, Bloodworth and Dawg will be the ones I pivot my expectations towards), or ignore those that I'm not familiar with.

1000%

 

[Frillen]

Frillen, you are the same person who pushed this 5 hour length number so vehemently, and even implied other GAFers were wrong or misinformed about theirs (despite there being quite a number of them). Low and behold that 5 hour number was a complete outlier that no one else on GAF has yet to even match. The averages ranging from 7-11 hours. Your disregard of GAF opinions here just seems completely misplaced.

It's pretty insulting that you not only think GAFers are incapable of measuring time, but also offering honest impressions. Not to mention that does not correlate with reality (see Destiny or WatchDogs for example). Your impressions were negative, you've been negative on this game from the beginning, so you presumably think only negative impressions are trust worthy?

You're straight out lying in this post. I said it would take you 5-6 hours to complete the game without picking up the collectibles. Which I intended to do (pick up the collectibles), and which I have. I said in another post that I completed the game in about 7 hours, which align with the average you just posted. That's includes the platinum.

Oh, and again, I've posted numerous posts where I post positive impressions regarding the title. I've stated that the single player, while short, is pretty decent, the visuals are gorgeous, the gunplay solid, the voice acting is great etc. But sorry, if I'm being honest and actually dare to point out the game's shortcomings.

 

[Melchiah]

I don't agree with Amirox's theory that the opinions of people who purchased the game cannot be trusted because they are "justifying their purchase" either intentionally or not. That theory discounts the opinions of the people best suited to give them -- the people who have played the game.

Yeah. I buy lots of games right out of the gate and my opinions vary quite a bit on them.

I bought Persona Q day one and did not like it at all. Then there is a game like Destiny which I enjoyed and did not love. I was actually down right harsh on Destiny right out of the gate, as were a lot of other gaffers who we know bought it.

I picked up Far Cry 4 when it released and found it a midling experience and freely expressed that.

Amirox's theory, is just that, a theory. Don't go spreading it around like it's gospel.

I don't appreciate having my opinion being dismissed as not valid because it is one of the first impressions. That's bullshit.

Hell, I bought Majora's Mask with my N3DS just last week and I am really not enjoying it.

Same here. I've bought several games, that ended up being more or less unsatisfactory to me, like Shadow of Mordor, Wolfenstein: TNO, Uncharted 2, RE5, Dead Space, and Resistance 2. There's no such thing for me, as liking something just because I bought it. I suspect this is a game like Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls, that just rubs him the wrong way. If it's hard for you to see any merit in something, you might start to question why others think differently.

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

I love the GAF community, but dont trust it's members game impressions, because they bought the game.... Is that right?

 

[Cranberrys]

I love the game so far. It's the art and the general mood that hooked me up in the first place but I find the gameplay mechanics effective although already seen/played. The guns have a nice and "physical" feeling.

Graphics are jaw dropping, lightning especially, but I'm amazed at the sound design. It's not ostentatious with bassy "boom boom" but rather subtle and climatic. Too bad there isn't a specific profile for the Sony Gold headset because the game sure deserves it. Hearing the sound of the gas lamps as I move is kind of eery.

 

[Cudder]

I love the GAF community, but dont trust it's members game impressions, because they bought the game.... Is that right?

So because they bought and have played the game you don't trust their impressions...got it.

 

[tusken77]

Will try to find out, friend of mine hasn't been very talkative the last few days...

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Tell him we love it.

Indeed, I adore the experience so far. Played it for almost four hours and I'm only in Chapter 4. I'm just soaking up every little glorious detail the world has to offer.

 

[PBY]

I love the GAF community, but dont trust it's members game impressions, because they bought the game.... Is that right?

No one... Is saying this.

 

[Loudninja]

Lucky me, I played with headphones that also have a little external sound card for 5.1.
Can't play without them anymore.



What a nice consideration you have of gaffers, like we all were some bunch of immature, 13 yo players ^^'
I totally disagree with Amirox



and now that I think about it, it's pretty funny that reviewers consider a game not worth a price when they get it for free Well anyway, I agree with nib95.

oh great impressions missed them before.

 

[Frillen]

What a nice consideration you have of gaffers, like we all were some bunch of immature, 13 yo players ^^'
I totally disagree with Amirox

I don't. I just think first impressions are overly positive and does not reflect how gamers think of a specific game down the line. I've been reading and writing on GAF since 2005 and witnessed hundreds of examples of this. Again, nothing wrong about posting positive first impressions, I do it myself. I just think they are very skewed towards being overly positive compared to what the average gamer think of that game post release/down the road. If you disagree, fine, we can just agree to disagree.

 

[nib95]

You're straight out lying in this post. I said it would take you 5-6 hours to complete the game without picking up the collectibles. Which I intended to do (pick up the collectibles), and which I have. I said in another post that I completed the game in about 7 hours, which align with the average you just posted. That's includes the platinum.

Oh, and again, I've posted numerous posts where I post positive impressions regarding the title. I've stated that the single player, while short, id pretty decent, the visuals are gorgeous, the gunplay solid, the voice acting is great etc. But sorry, if I'm being honest and actually dare to point out the game's shortcomings.

Most of us have pointed out short comings as well though. These are not exclusive to just the overall negative impressions you know. Which is why I wish you'd read through the impressions before berating them.

 

[Pop]

If you paid for it 'You're drinking the kool-aid' as I've read (Dictator93 (ugh) most recently, I think), and it's pretty annoying to have our opinions dismissed because of it. Especially when positive buyers are apparently lower down the scale than those who watched a Youtube playthrough and clickbait 'journalists'

Exactly

Quite hilarious how people come to that conclusion.