The original Tomb Raider games were something truly special weren't they

Im still pisses that Square Enix did jack shit with this games during the 25th anniversary. A remastered collection, anything:/

There is still this unannounced TR Anniversary game from the Nvidia leak. Hope this turns out into something

Like anyone's surprised; they're probably one of the worst publishers in the industry, for various reasons. Not surprised they would neglect an anniversary for a classic IP, probably because they merely "inherited" it rather than built it in-house.
 
For this franchise to become succesful again, they need to stop copying linear action games like you know which one.

They need to make it an actual dungeon crawler with limited resources, real treasure hunting, it needs to differentiate itself from other IP. If it can succeed, I think Lara Croft is still a reasonable well known name. Now with all the girl power stuff going on, she might be seen as an icon yet again. Sure there is Uncharted and all, holding your hand and delivering the cutscenes, but who doesn't want ACTUAL treasure hunting in complex dungeons and ancient temples? Or, make it an RPG of sorts.

Essentially the game needs to be like a current gen version of the first one with ofcourse a more lifelike and vulnerable Lara. Remove auto climbing, most combat, funnel design and put in some tough decisions for Lara to make.

What 2013 initially promised sounded great, but she's probably the biggest and most efficient killing machine of all Lara incarnations. You can absolutely go to town with her OP tools and abilities.
 
Completely agree. Especially the first two (though I think the third gets an unfair bad rap). Amazing games and will never forget my experience with the first.

I also disagree with the assessment on the controls. They may feel a bit awkward at first but they're incredibly mathematical and absolutely necessary for this type of precision platforming. It was amazing how well they worked.
 
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Agreed. That first game especially is near and dear to me. The atmosphere, exploration, puzzle was amazing. And of course the quest for nude codes.

I remember getting to a level that had a lot of difficult platforming. My cousin visited from France and managed to overwrite the save. Never went back to it lol.
 
They need to make it an actual dungeon crawler with limited resources, real treasure hunting, it needs to differentiate itself from other IP.
The question of every project lead or manager:

Do I cover my ass and go for the general trend, and if it fails I can blame it on 'market sentiment' or do I take the risk but ultimately if it fails I am the one responsible?

classic animation choices GIF by Challenger
 
Within the last week I've started to play the PS1 Classic on PS3. Never played any of them, and it really is great fun, but fuck me the controls are garbage. Is the Anniversary edition on PS2 the same but with updated controls or is it a complete re-design?
 
The movement makes so much sense with a grid system in mind.

This is the reason why the controls are a divisive issue for this game.
People who understand the grid system and how Lara's steps and jumps relate to it, consider the controls very precise and rational. Almost like a chess game.
But people who don't know how to use the grid system consider the game clunky and weird.
 
Classic TR games are legendary, but i disagree the new trilogy is very good and enjoy it, third game was a bit meh at some moment but was still good, TR 2013 and Rise were great as well, it actually has strenghts compare to Uncharted franchises, like better puzzle, more freedom, while Uncharted had more interesting characters, in TR trilogy all characters were meh outside of Lara, but in Uncharted many great characters.

For classic TR games they so awesome, i just replayed TR3 2 or 3 months ago, they had something special and i realize they are actually close to Fromsoft games than modern TR games, like minimum HUD, no map, no carry help, it has that greedy feel that made them awesome just it makes Fromsoft games awesome as well. The vehicules in TR3 were also incredible in variety and gampelay, specially for the time.

To me to this day Tomb Raider 2 still has the most legendary last chapter ever. Home Sweet Home was so unexpected and mindblowing
 
This is the reason why the controls are a divisive issue for this game.
People who understand the grid system and how Lara's steps and jumps relate to it, consider the controls very precise and rational. Almost like a chess game.
But people who don't know how to use the grid system consider the game clunky and weird.

Its controls were rather good, you basically couldn't fail a jump if you knew what to do. It was more reliable than modern auto jumping locking on the wrong objects.

You needed to walk to the edge with shoulder button, you couldn't fall over as lara would stop at the edge. This was your cue that you had to tap backwards and just press forward+jump. You would make the perfect run and jump every single time. If you would die, it meant you weren't supposed to jump or go there.
 
We will probably never see anything like it on consoles again. The Witness is the closest thing to an old school Tomb Raider game we have.

That said, puzzle games like Tomb Raider and Silent Hill lose a lot of their mystery when anyone can just look up the resolution on the internet.
 
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Too many memories... I played all the old school TRs back in the days, and TR2 is absolutely the best and in my opinion the perfect TR game. Perfect mix between action and platforming, godly-designed levels, cool and sexy sounding weapons, fantastic music, and the sexiest and sassiest Lara. And difficulty was brutal from the very first level!

I still play old school TR these days thanks to the fantastic TRLE.net levels. https://www.trle.net/ Some of the levels are even better than any of the original games, and you can even find complete games. It's like heaven for me.
 
In the video I linked above the author talked about exactly that thing. I timestamped the part:





The movement makes so much sense with a grid system in mind.

Brilliant, greatly appreciate it.

Let me ask you this now, should I get Tomb Raider on the Sega Saturn or should I just stick with the PSX version? PSX is cheaper cause I can get it via the PS3 but who wouldn't love playing the original on an actual Saturn??
 
Brilliant, greatly appreciate it.

Let me ask you this now, should I get Tomb Raider on the Sega Saturn or should I just stick with the PSX version? PSX is cheaper cause I can get it via the PS3 but who wouldn't love playing the original on an actual Saturn??
Get the N-Gage version.
don't
 
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This is the reason why the controls are a divisive issue for this game.
People who understand the grid system and how Lara's steps and jumps relate to it, consider the controls very precise and rational. Almost like a chess game.
But people who don't know how to use the grid system consider the game clunky and weird.
I don't see how anyone could not get it, though. It's essential to play the game, and after a couple times you have to jump from a suspended platform to grab onto the next one, I really don't know how it can fail to click. Literally every single jump-grab section in the game is about walking to the edge, jumping back, taking a running start and jumping from the edge. Not understanding this is like not understanding running jumps in Super Mario.
 
No game developer will ever make something like the original Tomb Raider, ever again. They wouldn't dare.

And that makes me sad.



With a very generous spoonful of Arkham.
Someone already mentioned this on the thread, but don't you think Demon's Souls in 2009 had some of the original tomb raider magic, with the way levels looped themselves and how enigmatic the systems worked? Also, the atmosphere and constant traps.
 
Someone already mentioned this on the thread, but don't you think Demon's Souls in 2009 had some of the original tomb raider magic, with the way levels looped themselves and how enigmatic the systems worked? Also, the atmosphere and constant traps.
It wasn't nearly as difficult as TR, and didn't have any platforming/puzzling to speak of.
 
It wasn't nearly as difficult as TR, and didn't have any platforming/puzzling to speak of.
Sure, totally different genres. I was talking about the general atitude of really not leading the players and let them figure things out on 3D levels that become more complex the further you go into them.

But I agree. Original tomb raider is one of the greatest videogames ever made and I go back to it every time I feel depressed about current releases.
 
In the video I linked above the author talked about exactly that thing. I timestamped the part:





The movement makes so much sense with a grid system in mind.

Bro he posted this just recently and it already has 440K views, while his other olders videos didn't. This just shows the power of the queen Lara.

Just watched a bit of it tho, will watch the rest later when i have time. Great review.
 
For some reason it became the consensus that tomb raider's intricate platforming controls were bad design, rather than the point and what made it good.
The reason is obvious. Gaming became mainstream after the end of the 90's and casual gamers or "normies" became the majority. Thus, anything that requires some effort from the player is considered bad design ever since.
 
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Super wholesome thread by the way. Warms my heart to know so many people recognise the all-around brilliance of the original tomb raider. Can someone remove that first post reply so that I can print the thread and save it as a treasure?
 
Anyone know how Tomb Raider: Anniversary holds up compared to the original? In theory it could be the perfect way to take what was best about the original as far as atmosphere and level layout and modernize it with better graphics and controls. Did that pan out?

I thought it was a good attempt at modernising the game. The core of the levels remained the same as the original, but they did cut a lot of fluff and streamlined them.

With the faster movement, and it being much more forgiving with regards to movement precision required, a lot of the scope was lost.

And by removing the grid system, you were never sure what jumps were possible - a lot of variable length and scripted nonsense going on. To combat that, all ledges had some kind of obvious texture which made finding paths too easy.

On the plus side, combat was slightly more engaging.

If you haven't played it, I recommend it. It will bring back good memories of the original!
 
Due to the technological constraints, tomb raider was hard but groundbreaking at the time.
Younger gamers are so used to hints, ledges that "glow" and non stop dialogue… that unfortunately the original trilogy will never resonate with them.
 
My first 3D game was TRII, what an amazing game, after, when I played Mario 64, I remember called Mario "Lara's son" because of the backflips and 3D platforming, jajajaj
 
Complete every game for 100%, include DLC for TR1/2/3. Gonna soon replay again whole series, expect last trilogy, where only SoTR good, but for me is best The Last Revelation(complete game like 8 times). Puzzles and Secrets are best in old tomb raiders.
Nowadays puzzles like 1-2 click and you solve. Secrets, not secrets anymore, secrets nowadays like paints/audio/art and they show on maps
 
What's the best port/best way to play this today?
Dunno, I'd just emulate the PlayStation version (the Dreamcast version has some bugs and severe frame drops here and there, contary to other straights ports like Soul Reaver that are 100% better thanks to the 60fps) and leave it at that rather than hunt down fan patches/fixes/mods for the PC.
 
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Dunno, I'd just emulate the PlayStation version (the Dreamcast version has some bugs and severe frame drops here and there, contary to other straights ports like Soul Reaver that are 100% better thanks to the 60fps) and leave it at that rather than hunt down fan patches/fixes/mods for the PC.
Yeah, i think i'll just play the PS1 version on a good, accurate emulator.

I wish it was compatible with openLara though.
 
I'd love to see a spiritual successor focused on exploration and climbing with actual mechanics other than hold forward and press X (LOOKING AT YOU UC4!) with little or no combat at all.
 


Cool Britannia 90's icon

I saw their show in Dallas at the Cotton Bowl in 1997 - it was incredible! They had a huge screen as their stage backdrop that was the biggest LED screen in the world at that time.

Anyway I vividly remember seeing Lara Croft firing her guns on screen BUT IT WAS DURING "BULLET THE BLUE SKY" and not the song mentioned above.
 
It's why people saying Uncharted ripped off Tomb Raider never made sense. They were nothing alike.

We saw what a Tomb Raider like Uncharted would be with the new trilogy and we are all worse off for it.
 
It's why people saying Uncharted ripped off Tomb Raider never made sense. They were nothing alike.

We saw what a Tomb Raider like Uncharted would be with the new trilogy and we are all worse off for it.
Each subsequent Tomb Raider game became more and more story-focused. Chasing that Indiana Jones-inspired movie-like adventure game.
Tomb Raider was trying to be Uncharted long before Uncharted existed.

Then one day Naughty Dog showed them how it's done.

Both games riped-off Indiana Jones.
 
Each subsequent Tomb Raider game became more and more story-focused. Chasing that Indiana Jones-inspired movie-like adventure game.
Tomb Raider was trying to be Uncharted long before Uncharted existed.

Then one day Naughty Dog showed them how it's done.

Both games riped-off Indiana Jones.
By that logic, Indiana Jones ripped off dozens of treasure hunting stories prior to it.

Uncharted was nothing like Tomb Raider until the reboot.
 
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By that logic, Indiana Jones ripped off dozens of treasure hunting stories prior to it.

Uncharted was nothing like Tomb Raider until the reboot.
But... It did. That's no secret.

Both games were trying to do the same thing. But Uncharted succeeded where TR failed.
And then TR became the poor man's Uncharted.
 
It's why people saying Uncharted ripped off Tomb Raider never made sense. They were nothing alike.

We saw what a Tomb Raider like Uncharted would be with the new trilogy and we are all worse off for it.

Pretty sure Uncharted ripped off Tomb Raider Legend (or was certainly more similar to that than the initial Tomb Raider games)?

Regardless, the initial Tomb Raider games were of their time, and peerless then. You couldn't remake them now as they were then. No modern gamer would accept the slow pace and tank controls.

I think they made a good stab with Tomb Raider Shadow. It had plenty of tomb like environments. As close as they'll ever get I think.
 
I mean of course it is, it's one of the most influential games of all time and was absolutely amazing when it first released. I remember watching my dad play it and thinking 'holy shit, look at this game!!'.
 
Pretty sure Uncharted ripped off Tomb Raider Legend (or was certainly more similar to that than the initial Tomb Raider games)?

Regardless, the initial Tomb Raider games were of their time, and peerless then. You couldn't remake them now as they were then. No modern gamer would accept the slow pace and tank controls.

I think they made a good stab with Tomb Raider Shadow. It had plenty of tomb like environments. As close as they'll ever get I think.
The gameplay could have been modernised to be less rigid but still offer that feel as a single dude's work has demonstrated (first a video showing off how stuff works, then one showing it in a natural environment instead). After the first few Core games Crystal Dynamics failed in updating it is all. Granted Anniversary was basically like this but that game faltered elsewhere in terms of design, level design, polish, and once again they didn't stick with that scheme for long and the games that did use it had their own issues that had nothing to do with the basic controls, doing too little too late.


Of course I'm not saying it's perfect in this form, it still has some weird animations, the Lara model isn't the greatest, it looks silly to have her pop the flares in that old school way etc., but again, it's just some dude's work, a full studio would do better if only they actually shared a vision akin to this. They wouldn't have to follow the formula that closely outside a remake either, PoP: Sands of Time mentioned already shows a different way to have challenging, manual platforming puzzle gameplay successfully, it sucks that scheme didn't last long either the way Ubisoft went about it since then.
 
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True. One of the biggest problem with the new trilogy is that they made the worst part of Tomb Raider - firefights - prominent and the best part of Tomb Raider, puzzles and explorations, basically worthless. So it become a worst versione of Uncharted, and it's crazy since Uncharted was inspired by Tomb Raider.
 
Being probably the first 3D platformers with open and complex levels, they're amazing. I still find their tank controls about the most polished I've ever seen. The Last Revelation is still my favorite in the series.
 
Yes.

Classic Tomb Raider focus on plataforming and player positioning. Emphasys on character position, as it the crutial point to proceed in the game. Take your time, choose a direction and jump. The games rewards players for their tank control mastering and keen eye to discover secrets.
 
Played the demo of the first one on my old Pentium 133mhz. Great times. Child me got nearly a heart attack when Lara stepped on the hand of Midas …
When I think of TR1, that is up there with killing myself by diving into the ground. Fun times.

I think my favourite moment though is when that T-Rex came out of nowhere and fucked my shit up.
 
When I think of TR1, that is up there with killing myself by diving into the ground. Fun times.

I think my favourite moment though is when that T-Rex came out of nowhere and fucked my shit up.

That always familiar bone crunch sound effect we know so well.

I wonder if we'll ever see a Crash like remake of the original trilogy, where they keep the level design the same and just rework the graphics. I doubt it, just because I think the games aren't quite guided enough for modern tastes, but would be interesting.

I think a modern TR that is a bit more linear with clear objectives could still be very good, just needs to focus on exploration and platforming. Drop the parts that highlight every useful object and just include pointers to the main objective (the castle up the mountainside, the cave entrance to the tomb, etc.) and let users find the right path to get there.
 
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That always familiar bone crunch sound effect we no so well.

I wonder if we'll ever see a Crash like remake of the original trilogy, where they keep the level design the same and just rework the graphics. I doubt it, just because I think the games aren't quite guided enough for modern tastes, but would be interesting.

I think a modern TR that is a bit more linear with clear objectives could still be very good, just needs to focus on exploration and platforming. Drop the parts that highlight every useful object and just include pointers to the main objective (the castle up the mountainside, the cave entrance to the tomb, etc.) and let users find the right path to get there.
The game is so unique that i'd like to see slight quality of life improvements but mainly a fresh coat of paint. Everything about TR1 is whats missing in most of today's games which have become so samey. I'd buy it.
 
I remember playing the demo for Tomb Raider III over and over again. It was the level set in Area 51-like army base. It was great fun, but didn't compare to the actual tomb raiding of the first two games. Then along came Last Revelation and Chronicles, and all was good again. Then we got Angel of Darkness…
 
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