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The People Vs. O.J. Simpson: American Crime Story - S1 - FX Tues - 90 on Metacritic

3

3rdman

Member
strafer said:
So did anyone see this live back when it happened? the car chase stuff?
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I remember it vividly...I was sitting in a bar in Georgia when it happened. Crazy really...everything stopped for this and (sadly) the entire country became part of the soap opera that was trial.

Is the show any good??? Personally, the whole thing left such a bad taste in my mouth that I have very little desire to relive any of it.
 
3

3rdman

Member
robertsan21 said:
How can someone as guilty as OJ walk free of this murder? its just crazy, the justice system must be sooooo off
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The prosecution was utterly incompetent and the defense was the best money can buy...it's that simple.

The fact that the prosecution actually tried to make OJ try the gloves on was the moment he was going to walk...any lawyer worth their salt will tell you to NEVER ask a question that you don't already know the answer to or in this case, try on a pair of gloves...made of leather...that shrinks when exposed to the elements/humidity. Idiots.
 
3

3rdman

Member
cruets said:
Prosecution was terrible. Totally inept
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Yep.

A few years after the trial, I read "Outrage" by Bugliosi and even he couldn't hide his contempt for the prosecution team. Did you know that they never bothered to introduce into evidence the transcripts of the initial interrogation with OJ and the police?

In the book, as a final indictment of the prosecution, Bugliosi includes the entire transcript in which OJ changes his story multiple times...that alone (with a competent team) would have put OJ away.
 
G

GavinGT

Banned
robertsan21 said:
How can someone as guilty as OJ walk free of this murder? its just crazy, the justice system must be sooooo off
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The defense did seed some very real doubt. Especially the part where it was a mostly black jury and the prosecution's star witness, Mark Fuhrman, was proven to be a huge racist. That made their framing theory very easy to digest.
 
C

cruets

Member
GavinGT said:
The defense did seed some very real doubt. Especially the part where it was a mostly black jury and the prosecution's star witness, Mark Fuhrman, was proven to be a huge racist. That made their framing theory very easy to digest.
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I could totally believe Mark Fuhrman planted evidence.
 
M

Mully

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
I can't tell if they're playing some of the younger Kardashians stuff for laughs or to highlight that the infamy of the case started them down the road of seeking fame, or what. It wasn't a big deal in the first episode, a little shoehorned in, but they were actually at the funeral so I guess it was the most organic way they could think of introducing them. But literally spelling the name and chanting was just bizarre. Which maybe was the point? I honestly can't tell. Haha

This bounces back and forth between being compelling and cartoony. They're doing a good job with selling the racial tensions in the case, especially relevant right now. Kinda gives it an anchor for the younger audience to grasp onto.
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Someone pointed this out in another thread/website (not really sure) a few days ago.

The Kardasians were in fact a major part of OJ and Nicole's life. Rob was OJ's best man and OJ was Rob's best man. Kim and the girls were prominently at the funeral as well.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Mully said:
Someone pointed this out in another thread/website (not really sure) a few days ago.

The Kardasians were in fact a major part of OJ and Nicole's life. Rob was OJ's best man and OJ was Rob's best man. Kim and the girls were prominently at the funeral as well.
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And that's fine. But you can't tell me that there was any substance to their scenes in this past episode.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
Dan said:
I know what the writers are trying to do with the Kardashian kids, but they're so fucking toxic that any attention, even negative attention, inspires a visceral reaction of disgust.
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Haven't seen the episode yet, but this gif from the Warming Glow review made me laugh out loud:

H30pZr1.gif


At least it sounds like the rest of the episode was solid.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Mully said:
Someone pointed this out in another thread/website (not really sure) a few days ago.

The Kardasians were in fact a major part of OJ and Nicole's life. Rob was OJ's best man and OJ was Rob's best man. Kim and the girls were prominently at the funeral as well.
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Oh I'm aware of that. But so far, their inclusion doesn't feel natural at all. It's like when superhero shows do little easter eggs for things that will never materialize. Remember when in the first episode where they established Marcia as a single mother? That made sense, you're getting some character development there. What have we gotten from the scenes with Robert's kids so far? Very little interaction with their father, or OJ, or anyone. Name drops. That's it. It isn't adding to the story. We don't get the same type of scenes with other family members, so it sticks out like a sore thumb.

I'm not super anti Kardashians or anything, I don't mind them at all. But the moments so far have been...odd.
 
C

crazyrabbits

Banned
Again, very solid. Enjoyed seeing Greenwood hamming it up ("I was going to run for Mayor..."), the constant cuts to how society/the press were reacting to what was happening like the police officer telling the Time-Life photographer that it was "his funeral", and the strong focus between Robert/O.J.

Hope they put in some of the more crazy moments of the trial (the "Dream Team" getting a rift and then having an impromptu prayer session, Ron Goldman's press conferences, the Fuhrman fiasco).
 
G

Goodstyle

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
Oh I'm aware of that. But so far, their inclusion doesn't feel natural at all. It's like when superhero shows do little easter eggs for things that will never materialize. Remember when in the first episode where they established Marcia as a single mother? That made sense, you're getting some character development there. What have we gotten from the scenes with Robert's kids so far? Very little interaction with their father, or OJ, or anyone. Name drops. That's it. It isn't adding to the story. We don't get the same type of scenes with other family members, so it sticks out like a sore thumb.

I'm not super anti Kardashians or anything, I don't mind them at all. But the moments so far have been...odd.
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One of the themes of this series is the deep impact celebrity culture and celebrity fascination can have on the psyches of many different people. They're trying to tie the Kardashian obsession with celebrity and attention to the events of the OJ trial. It's almost like a supervillain backstory for them, a bit to show why they would come to think that capturing the attention of the American people means everything. It's also a bit of an indictment on the American people, in a "see, you created these monsters" kind of way.

I'm not saying the Kardashians are monsters mind you, but it's just my read on what the show is trying to do with them.
 
smokeymicpot

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
GavinGT said:
All of the bit parts in this are really poorly acted.



This part made me want to kill myself in the back of a Bronco.
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Yeah I hope they don't do that again next episode. I can just imagine when they say the the verdict and its a cut to the kids.
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
Keep in mind, in the mid-90s no one knew or cared if Robert Kardashian even *had* kids, so seeing them is a little jarring. I remember Marsha Clark, Mark Furhman, AC, and especially Kato Kaelin (America's house guest!) but if you asked me who Kim Kardashian was I'd be like, "Robert's... sister, mum, aunt?"
 
T

The Beard

Member
The show is really good despite the cringeworthy Kardashian bullshit. Them spelling their last name made me want to vomit. It's so forced, and it really doesn't belong in the show at all. I get that Robert K. was involved but who gives a shit about his kids in relation to this trial?
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
strafer said:
So did anyone see this live back when it happened? the car chase stuff?
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The Vanity Fair article linked earlier stated that over 95 million people watched it unfold live on TV.

Goodstyle said:
One of the themes of this series is the deep impact celebrity culture and celebrity fascination can have on the psyches of many different people. They're trying to tie the Kardashian obsession with celebrity and attention to the events of the OJ trial. It's almost like a supervillain backstory for them, a bit to show why they would come to think that capturing the attention of the American people means everything. It's also a bit of an indictment on the American people, in a "see, you created these monsters" kind of way.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that - I was merely taking their inclusion at face value. Even though it plays like a Lifetime Original Movie, the racial commentary is fairly well done so maybe I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
Yes, they're trying to make a point about celebrity culture, but the Kardashians are so overexposed today that perhaps it doesn't work here?
NY Mag interview with the writers said:
Were there certain moments that were added in just to add color to the narrative? For example, there’s a scene where Robert Kardashian (David Schwimmer) tells his children not to be obsessed with fame.

SA: Yes, he did take his kids out to Chin Chin for Father's Day on the Sunday after the Bronco chase. That is all true. We know that Robert Kardashian was not a man who sought the limelight. We do know that Shapiro pushed him in front of the TV cameras to read the suicide note that day, which was not something he was comfortable with. And we do know, hilariously, that the reporters afterwards said, "What's your name? How do you spell it?" It's an unusual Armenian name, and he had to spell it out for them. We assume his four kids are all watching TV. They're going to see their dad on TV and they're going to be excited, like any kids would be.

LK: We can make a quick satirical point, and then we moved on. Not to get your hopes up — the kids are only in five minutes out of the ten hours. What's interesting about Kardashian is he was someone I don't think Scott and I had any particular opinion about before we started researching. We discovered he was a good man. He was the one guy in this case that didn't have any other weird motive involved. He was there because his best friend said he didn't do it, and he loved his friend, and he was going to remain loyal to his pal and see this to the end. Eventually, he gets very conflicted and he starts to wonder whether his friend actually did do it. For us he became a very rich, heartfelt character.
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NY Mag said:
When it came to establishing tone, the creators stuck to what they knew — a well-paced combination of high drama and satire in the vein of Dog Day Afternoon. “It’s a trial about a celebrity accused of murdering two innocent people,” Alexander said. “It’s a very serious story, but Larry and I approach all of our biopics by throwing in a lot of comedy to levy the seriousness along the way and have fun with the characters.”

To that end, a couple of amusing scenes involving the Kardashians as children are completely imaginary, but they’re executed with a wink, Karaszweski said. “As a journalist, I would never write a scene like that unless I had sources that said that scene took place,” Toobin said. “But this is a dramatization, not a documentary. As a participant in this project, I thought it was vivid and real and terrific that [Robert Kardashian’s] character could be explored in that way.” Played by Schwimmer, the late Kardashian was Simpson’s loyal friend who became a household name when he read the football star’s alleged suicide note on national television.
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D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
I barely recall actually watching the chase, but I do have a recollection that my younger brother was afraid of going to sleep that night, with some fantastical idea that OJ was going to break in and attack him with an axe. (We lived in NJ.) I've always found that funny, what a little kid's mind could do with catching some of the crime details the media were touting on the air.

I strongly remember my 6th grade class going out into a common area along with a few other nearby classes, and rolling a TV out for everyone to watch the verdict. That was, and remains, absolutely wild considering the only other kinds of events that ever interrupted school like that to my recollection were fire alarms, bomb threats, and 9/11.

It's fascinating what various people remember and learned from the media circus. I liked how it managed to teach Mindy Kaling that just because people are laughing, you don't have to find something funny:

Mindy Kaling ‏@mindykaling Jan 3
@emilynussbaum DANCING ITOS. They were huge to me. It was the first time I was ever like "am I allowed to not think something is funny?"

Cornballer said:
Yes, they're trying to make a point about celebrity culture, but the Kardashians are so overexposed today that perhaps it doesn't work here?
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I think they could have extremely underplayed the Kardashian kids and the audience would still get the point. Sounds like episode 3 has another super on-the-nose bit with them however. If I were to make a related complaint about the show, it sometimes seems far too overtly prescient, with some lines of dialogue being so pointedly emblematic of broader observations or conclusions about the whole debacle.

It's an unusual Armenian name, and he had to spell it out for them.
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Is it? I find it funny that Angelenos were so confused by an Armenian name. Aside from maybe swapping the K for a C, it sounds exactly how it's spelled. Not sure Armenian names are all that confusing on that front in general.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Excellent, excellent, excellent show! So much good acting by everyone (except marsha). Cuba Gooding better sail to an emmy award for this. He is bonkers. Everyone does such a good job except Marsha's actress. She comes across as try hard and fake. It's clear she has never smoked a day in her life. She's the only disappointment I saw so far in an otherwise excellent show.
 
D

Dalek

Member
I didn't follow the case very closely when I was younger so a lot of the details were really surprising for me.

1. There were 2 white broncos.
2. The way that OJ apologized to everyone about this on the phone-"I know it's Friday and you probably want to get home to your kids."
3. I have to be honest-I had no idea how serious the suicide threat was and that he originally intended to shoot himself at Nicole's grave.
4. That his lawyers actually thought OJ was dead before they saw the Bronco chase on TV.
 
C

crackhead_bob

Member
I haven't had the chance to see this show yet because I don't have cable and have been off the grid for nearly 7 years now. But I watched a documentary on the OJ Simpson case and they showed a clip of him from The Naked Gun. That got me thinking. What if Nicole and Ron were not murdered, and that OJ was not prone to violent mood swings. If he had remained the Babe Ruth figure he was prior to the murders, could he have remained marketable enough to have kept the Naked Gun series somewhat relevant as a pop culture commodity in the DVD/Bluray era? Leslie Nielson is dead, and Priscilla Presley banks enough off her late husband's name that she doesn't have to care about earning any royalty check for her involvement in the Naked Gun trilogy, but a scandal free OJ could have given the series further mileage even after Nielson's death.

When pop culture classic films and tv shows make it to bluray, it's treated as a minor event. When Back to the Future was released on Bluray, the Today Show had on most of the cast -- with the exception of Crispin Glover, and I recall Harrison Ford promoting the Indiana Jones trilogy on DVD a few years back.

I know that Naked Gun was no Animal House by any stretch, but it did have some memorable moments -- albeit in the first film. Is it me, or is Paramount being timid in their marketing department because they're not sure as to how to promote these films without calling attention to the fact that OJ Simpson was involved in them?
I know they were released on DVD/Bluray, but they were never given the same fanfare as other popular films of their era have been. such as the examples I listed above. Again, assuming that the murders never happened, having this beloved, larger than life former athlete, turned actor as the defacto pitchman would be a no-brainer. And Paramount might have even gotten Priscilla Presley involved as part of a retrospective interview on DVD.

I have to imagine that they've done retrospective extras for films like Ghost and Superman. And IIRC, the bluray release of Aladdin featured a tribute on Robin Williams. It just seems like Hollywood has been silently giving OJ Simpson the Chris Benoit treatment over these past 2 decades, or at the very least burying his acting work under the fallout of his murder trial.
 
U

User 479360

Banned
I finally got around to watching both the premiere and the second episode this afternoon, and really liked both of them. This is shaping up to be an excellent show.

I faintly remember this from when I was a kid, but only very little. I think I saw the car chase on the news.

They've done a good job so far, and the acting is really solid. It's nice to see David Schwimmer, John Travolta and Sarah Paulson doing well in it, plus Cuba's done a good job too.

This was a nice surprise after the trainwreck that American Horror Story has turned into.
 
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