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[MadchesterManc]

The new consoles are likely already outclassed GPU wise by the RTX 2080ti.

Elephant in the room though is that it costs $1200.

Doubt the new consoles will even cost half that

At least this time the new consoles actually look stronger than your average mainstream gaming PC out of the gate, which wasn't the case in 2013

 

[DoctaThompson]

I think the more significant take away here is that if what OP says is true...it's going to take a year for the next gen consoles to be "outclassed". That speaks volumes to how powerful these machines are gonna be at launch. Usually PC's were well beyond what the coming consoles offered. Now it's PC who needs to gain a lead again. All at 4 times the price.

My pc outclassed next gen consoles almost 2 years ago. Many people who are upgrading their pc this year, can simply buy a newer gpu and be good for the whole generation, for about the price of a next gen console or even cheaper. PC never lost the lead to begin with. And it only gets better as all Xbox games are coming to pc, and Sony seems to be doing the same thing as well. Everyone is a winner this generation, regardless of what hardware you are playing on.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

This is untrue; the PC version of Red Dead Redemption 2 blows the console versions out of the water, into the sky, through the atmosphere, and out of orbit.

It is notably better, but IMHO it doesn't blow them out of the water. It ain't a generational leap, just minor details.

Lmao did you pull those numbers out your ass or what?! A simple Google search will show you definitely made up numbers to try and prove a point, which miserably failed. Here are the REAL results.

That says high though not ultra

 

[PaNaMa]

The same is true of that cell phone you just bought. Water is wet, etc

 

[Kuranghi]

I can't wait to see what this looks like on PC, hopefully they have increased the fidelity of the effects in some way so its not just the fps and res we can push. Even just seeing it in 60 OR native 4K would be special though. I'm thinking it might be one of those games where you have to sacrifice too much to run it at locked 60 on PC [Becoming more common these days, eg Fallen Order] at 4K, so I'll prob just end up locking to 30 like the consoles and boosting everything else. I played the whole game through at 30hz on both PS4 and Pro so I'm sure it'll still feel good.

 

[hyperbertha]

Lmao did you pull those numbers out your ass or what?! A simple Google search will show you definitely made up numbers to try and prove a point, which miserably failed. Here are the REAL results.

I said ultra quality dumbass. If you want to play it at high at variable fps between 55 - 60 enjoy lower quality than the consoles lol.

 

[Shin]

BluRayHiDef I don't know man, maybe Sony will cheat their way like they are doing with their TV's and mobile phone benchmark scores.
CTRL+F Sony

Mobile Benchmark Cheating: When a SoC Vendor Provides It As A Service

www.anandtech.com

 

[Skyr]

Why point out the obvious.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Generally speaking you are right.

However, it is the same discussion as with Muscle Cars with ridicolously high horse power - 780 hp and 8zylinders 6 Liter Engines vs. 430hp 6zylinders bi-turbo 4.5 Liter Engine...
Yes, on a straight line the muscle car will blow this 6 zylinder out of the water, into the sky, through the atmosphere and out of orbit - but at what cost? Efficiency is really, really bad, because as soon as there is a tiny little change coming into that straight line it gets really hard to keep up that argument and even on the straight line the "super charged" 6 zylinder bi-turbo solution is actually doing really well and don't get started by the costs for the actual hardware, because that is essentially very different than cars to be honest.
It's all about the Process knowledge, the R&D expertise of the engine and the manufacturing proccess, it's about detailed knowledge on the full system and know-how of a well crafted car.

Having said that and with that mindset:
Yes, the PC will outdo anything at anytime by a big, big leap. But at what costs?..

Look at the following gifs, The gifs are from end of 2017 on a PS4 Pro and this is just one example from one console, there are many more equally available on Xbox and PlayStation that are showing incredible results for a console with these kind of processors built in - we're talking mid-tier range in 2017, by now, these consoles are low-end tier at best in 2020 compared to a 2080Ti, Ryzen 3600+, 16gb RAM etc.

Do you feel like the game is visually looking that much less appealing than the stats-difference would imply?
I really don't... in essence we can do that example on both consoles and they are by far inferior to a PC stat-wise. They could never handle RDR2 to run at 4K Ultra Settings with 60FPS...to be honest a hell of a PC is needed to actually run that thing smoothly on a PC even... So for the delta in actual raw-power it's jaw dropping what consoles are able to achieve by smart system architecture, hand-tailored engines, APIs etc. etc. - Only time will tell what the situation will look like these days..

These GIFs are deceptive. They're 1080p or 4K (checker-boarded) footage that has been scaled down to these sub HD resolutions and subsequently appears to be much sharper and denser than it would at its native resolution. I have this game and play it on my PS4 Pro on a 55" 4K TV; it looks good but its LOD and pixel density aren't as high as they appear to be in these scaled-down GIFs.

 

[DoctaThompson]

I said ultra quality dumbass. If you want to play it at high at variable fps between 55 - 60 enjoy lower quality than the consoles lol.

Here you go dumbass, with everything maxed out, water physics on Max, etc. Settings consoles can't even display. You could have easily done a simple Google search, instead of coming off as ignorant and uninformed.

Much higher quality and framerate that you could only dream of.

 

[Kuranghi]

BluRayHiDef I don't know man, maybe Sony will cheat their way like they are doing with their TV's and mobile phone benchmark scores.
CTRL+F Sony

Mobile Benchmark Cheating: When a SoC Vendor Provides It As A Service

www.anandtech.com

How exactly are they cheating on their TV's benchmark scores, first I've heard and I follow TV development quite closely. Samsung on the other hand are known "cheaters" who create their own tests so they can game them.

 

[DESTROYA]

Isn’t that basically how every piece of hardware tech is?

 

[hyperbertha]

Here you go dumbass, with everything maxed out, water physics on Max, etc. Settings consoles can't even display. You could have easily done a simple Google search, instead of coming off as ignorant and uninformed.

Much higher quality and framerate that you could only dream of.

Wtf why is this guy quoting the exact source I used to disprove OP?
43 variable is ok now? Then maybe we should unlock console fps to maybe get 45 ish unlocked and beat pc anyway?
And what higher quality? Depth of field? Because consoles are already using ultra quality models and textures.

 

[Eliciel]

These GIFs are deceptive. They're 1080p or 4K (checker-boarded) footage that has been scaled down to these sub HD resolutions and subsequently appear to be much sharper and denser than they would at their native resolutions. I have this game and play it on my PS4 Pro on a 55" 4K TV; it looks good but its LOD and pixel density aren't as high as they appear to be in these scaled-down GIFs.

You are right, it does look very high in the GIF and is lower in actual pixel density when observed real time in Front of your 55" (I actually also so have a 55" LG OLED), but at the end of the day it has been really impressive seeing the graphical quality coming from a console in 2017, a console I bought for ~329€ Back then I think..

Especially when taking Into consideraron that my graphic card alone on my PC has cost me 379€ (5700XT) ;-), If WE add RAM/CPU/Case/Mainboard/PowerSupply Unit we get Back to my Initial comment "at what cost" and my PC is Not even able to run RDR 2 at 4K Ultra Setting with 50-60fps, much worse actually ...

 

[Kuranghi]

Wtf why is this guy quoting the exact source I used to disprove OP?
43 variable is ok now? Then maybe we should unlock console fps to maybe get 45 ish unlocked and beat pc anyway?
And what higher quality? Depth of field? Because consoles are already using ultra quality models and textures.

It seem like you already decided what you think and won't budge from it, you aren't taking on any new information thats presented to you, whats the point in even engaging with you lol.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Wtf why is this guy quoting the exact source I used to disprove OP?
43 variable is ok now? Then maybe we should unlock console fps to maybe get 45 ish unlocked and beat pc anyway?
And what higher quality? Depth of field? Because consoles are already using ultra quality models and textures.

Lmfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao please no checkerboard rendering and 22fps. Settings that are lower than the lowest preset on pc. Get that shit out of here! I'd rather run native resolution, maxed out, ultrawide 3440x1440 resolution, HDR, and 100fps than low quality, sub 30fps.

Look, if you want to have a debate, cool. But stop making up shit. Consoles have ultra quality models and textures?! Lmfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao! Please explain and provide evidence, as everyone but you are saying something completely different. This is hilarious.

 

[Shin]

How exactly are they cheating on their TV's benchmark scores, first I've heard and I follow TV development quite closely. Samsung on the other hand are known "cheaters" who create their own tests so they can game them.

MediaTek SoC

 

[Kuranghi]

MediaTek SoC

Uhhh... what?

 

[Bryank75]

Horizon Zero Dawn looks great, but it doesn't look as good as Batman: Arkham Knight or Grand Theft Auto V on PC with maximum settings at 4K.

Maximum settings / 4K doesn't make the games better... it's only a marginal difference in visuals if anything. Usually not worth what you are paying for the card to the thieves at Nvidia.

The problem is you're comparing a card that is unoptimized to a console that has a lot of extra work put in to get every bit of juice out of it..... the result is that even a base PS4 is running Doom Eternal at a very acceptable standard even after 7 years on the market.

So, I think that your whole idea is flawed and the entire premise of PC master race is false.

 

[Skyr]

Wtf why is this guy quoting the exact source I used to disprove OP?
43 variable is ok now? Then maybe we should unlock console fps to maybe get 45 ish unlocked and beat pc anyway?
And what higher quality? Depth of field? Because consoles are already using ultra quality models and textures.

Thats just a straigh up lie tho. DF actually analyzed this

 

[DoctaThompson]

Maximum settings / 4K doesn't make the games better... it's only a marginal difference if anything. Usually not worth what you are paying for the card to the thieves at Nvidia.

The problem is you're comparing a card that is unoptimized to a console that has a lot of extra work put in to get every bit of juice out of it..... the result is that even a base PS4 is running Doom Eternal at a very acceptable standard even after 7 years on the market.

So, I think that your whole idea is flawed and the entire premise of PC master race is false.

Let's use that same example. GPU's that are older than ps4 and xb1, can run the Doom Eternal at higher resolution, and higher framerate than consoles. You may not notice differences in framerate, LOD, texture resolution, etc. But that doesn't mean other ppl are that blind.

I can't stand games that run below 60fps, or have lower quality assets, than running the same game on pc. Some people game on consoles, some on pc's. But it's disingenuous to say pc games aren't any better than consoles experience. It's a night and day difference, and it's obvious with all the insecure Fanboys in here trying to discredit the pc platform as a whole.

 

[hyperbertha]

It seem like you already decided what you think and won't budge from it, you aren't taking on any new information thats presented to you, whats the point in even engaging with you lol.
[

What new information though? I already said rdr2 averaged 40 fps so his post was redundant.

Lmfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao please no checkerboard rendering and 22fps. Settings that are lower than the lowest preset on pc. Get that shit out of here! I'd rather run native resolution, maxed out, ultrawide 3440x1440 resolution, HDR, and 100fps than low quality, sub 30fps.

Look, if you want to have a debate, cool. But stop making up shit. Consoles have ultra quality models and textures?! Lmfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao! Please explain and provide evidence, as everyone but you are saying something completely different. This is hilarious.

Xbox runs at native 4k but lets ignore that right? And I have yet to notice a difference between native 4k and checkerboarding at 50 inches sooooo.....
And 100 fps? How will you manage that when you can't go past 40 I wonder? And as for evidence look at comparisons on youtube? Same model quality. The fact of the matter is there is NO remarkable difference between PC and console versions no matter how you look at it so just quit wasting both of our time.

 

[hyperbertha]

Thats just a straigh up lie tho. DF actually analyzed this

Yes look at my post and look at the ultra in your table and tell me how its a lie?

 

[Bryank75]

Let's use that same example. GPU's that are older than ps4 and xb1, can run the Doom Eternal at higher resolution, and higher framerate than consoles. You may not notice differences in framerate, LOD, texture resolution, etc. But that doesn't mean other ppl are that blind.

I can't stand games that run below 60fps, or have lower quality assets, than running the same game on pc. Some people game on consoles, some on pc's. But it's disingenuous to say pc games aren't any better than consoles experience. It's a night and day difference, and it's obvious with all the insecure Fanboys in here trying to discredit the pc platform as a whole.

How much were the cards that you're talking about when PS4 launched? LOL

I get 60 fps 1440p on my pro... I'm happy enough, same cpu as the standard PS4, just upclocked.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Maximum settings / 4K doesn't make the games better... it's only a marginal difference if anything. Usually not worth what you are paying for the card to the thieves at Nvidia.

The problem is you're comparing a card that is unoptimized to a console that has a lot of extra work put in to get every bit of juice out of it..... the result is that even a base PS4 is running Doom Eternal at a very acceptable standard even after 7 years on the market.

So, I think that your whole idea is flawed and the entire premise of PC master race is false.

Yes, maximum settings at 4K does make games better. I initially played Batman: Arkham Knight on the base-model PS4 at 1080p at 30 frames per second (with lots of noticeable drops in frame rate); when I played it on PC with my 5820k and GTX 980Ti (which I've replaced with a 1080Ti), I was blown away, because the graphical quality at the higher resolution of 4K was insane. I was absolutely amazed by the specular lighting, the reflection of light on rained-upon surfaces, the smoke generated by the tires of the Batmobile as they rub against asphalt during an abrupt stop, the higher number of particle effects for explosions, and - of course - the higher framerate (45 to 60 fps with my 980Ti with max settings; I don't know how my 1080Ti would run it, though it would obviously run it better).

 

[Bryank75]

Yes, maximum settings at 4K does make games better. I initially played Batman: Arkham Knight on the base-model PS4 at 1080p at 30 frames per second (with lots of noticeable drops in frame rate); when I played it on PC with my 5820k and GTX 980Ti (which I've replaced with a 1080Ti), I was blown away, because the graphical quality at the higher resolution of 4K was insane. I was absolutely amazed by the specular lighting, the reflection of light on rained-upon surfaces, the smoke generated by the tires of the Batmobile as they rub against asphalt during an abrupt stop, the higher number of particle effects for explosions, and - of course - the higher framerate (45 to 60 fps with my 980Ti with max settings; I don't know how my 1080Ti would run it, though it would obviously run it better).

Arkham Knight is the worst of the main Arkham games..... so there is your point blown to shit. The worse looking, earlier games are rated and loved more and higher.

 

[DoctaThompson]

How much were the cards that you're talking about when PS4 launched? LOL

I get 60 fps 1440p on my pro... I'm happy enough, same cpu as the standard PS4, just upclocked.

Most gpu's back then we're cheaper than consoles, so less money than a console, for a better experience all around. Just like how prices of gpu's that beat next gen consoles, will be around the same price or even cheaper when those consoles release.

 

[RayHell]

For the SSD part 1st party game can make a game knowing the assets streaming will come at 5.5GB/s this won't be the case for PC any time soon. Most of the developer will target a slower IO speed like SSD.

 

[DoctaThompson]

Arkham Knight is the worst of the main Arkham games..... so there is your point blown to shit. The worse looking, earlier games are rated and loved more and higher.

Pretty sure he was talking about the game from a graphical and performance standpoint... Not if the game was good or not.... Kinda missed the whole point there buddy...

 

[Bryank75]

Most gpu's back then we're cheaper than consoles, so less money than a console, for a better experience all around. Just like how prices of gpu's that beat next gen consoles, will be around the same price or even cheaper when those consoles release.

Nah, a 780ti is the only real card that would reliably give 60fps at 1080p and that cost over 700 dollars in November 2013.

 

[VFXVeteran]

VFXVeteran What's your opinion regarding this?

I'm not going to give my opinion because it will be ignored, refuted, invalidated and/or ridiculed by the console warriors.. What they believe will always be true.

And who does care ? When a game like Horizon Zero Dawn still looks very impressive. I will be more than fine with a piece of hardware like XSX, and more specs means nothing if you do not take full advantage of them; I will never waste $$$$ to have a super monster, for 3 very simple reasons : 1) I do not play games on PC. 2) XSX is so powerful than I don't need anything more for the next 4 years. 3) Nobody will ever take full advantage of very expensive PC = waste of money(my habit).

I will never waste $$$$ to have a super monster, for 3 very simple reasons : 1) I do not play games on PC. 2) XSX is so powerful than I don't need anything more for the next 4 years. 3) Nobody will ever take full advantage of very expensive PC = waste of money(my habit).

Same was said about this gen and then we had people claiming Ghost of Tushima was PS5 footage in 2019.

Tech-experts these days... Smh..

That last point is so important. Tons of power at very high cost that doesn't really get exploited. PC's seem to be tremendously inefficient with their power relative to consoles. It looks great on paper.

etc.. etc..

listen to those guys. They know all about hardware and consoles and how games are designed.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Arkham Knight is the worst of the main Arkham games..... so there is your point blown to shit. The worse looking, earlier games are rated and loved more and higher.

This doesn't refute my point that the game runs and looks significantly better on PC. As for how good I think that it is, I like it the most; it has everything that Arkham: City has...and the Batmobile. So, if someone likes Arkham City, then they should love Arkham: Knight.

 

[Bryank75]

This doesn't refute my point that the game runs and looks significantly better on PC. As for how good I think that it is, I like it the most; it has everything that Arkham: City has...and the Batmobile. So, if someone likes Arkham City, then they should love Arkham: Knight.

It's just like watching a film in HD and then watching it in UHD... same film, same game. As long as the performance is 30fps in a single player game, makes no difference.

Only games that need 60 are competitive games... graphical bells and whistles are just that....

My big problem is the amount of half truths and outright lies that PC gamers peddle to try and say that PC gaming was way beyond what was available elsewhere at the same price.... blah blah blah

So misleading

 

[GiJoint]

Ok then ? Still won’t stop me getting the new consoles.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

No. I want my 400-500 dollar box to outperform a 2,000 dollar rig.

I’m putting my foot down

 

[JLB]

I get it, but what is the percentage of PC gamers that will actually have gaming hardware that will outpace consoles? Pretty low right?
But yeah, we are talking 24tf machines, compare that to a barely 10 and 12tf and the difference will indeed be substantial.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

It's just like watching a film in HD and then watching it in UHD... same film, same game. As long as the performance is 30fps in a single player game, makes no difference.

Only games that need 60 are competitive games... graphical bells and whistles are just that....

Differences in graphical quality and performance are objective; how you feel about whether or not they're important is subjective and is subsequently of no relevance to our debate.

 

[Bryank75]

Differences in graphical quality and performance are objective; how you feel about whether or not they're important is subjective and is subsequently of no relevance to our debate.

I have no issue with PC gaming being ahead or being better or whatever.... my point is just that it is more cost effective to bring decent quality gaming to many people through console.

It also helps PC gaming in many ways... making it cost effective to make games that have huge budgets.

We are all better off with consoles being a large part of gaming.

 

[IntentionalPun]

And water is wet... it’s been this way since the 360 gen. Last gen PCs releases before the consoles were even announced outclassed them.

Consoles are still awesome. Price to perf ratio should be great this gen for some time.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I have no issue with PC gaming being ahead or being better or whatever.... my point is just that it is more cost effective to bring decent quality gaming to many people through console.

It also helps PC gaming in many ways... making it cost effective to make games that have huge budgets.

We are all better off with consoles being a large part of gaming.

1. I have nothing against consoles; I own two: the PS4 Pro and the X1X.

2. Consoles prevent developers from taking full advantage of what PC has to offer since developers are incentivized to make games with the specifications of consoles in mind rather than those of PC. Having said that, I'm not personally aggrieved by this, because on PC we still get better visual experiences due to higher frame rates, higher resolutions, higher quality textures, better anti-aliasing, and unique capabilities such as being able to install mods.

 

[MadchesterManc]

With the way people talk about PC's in this thread, John Smith down the road with his i5 9400 & GTX 1060 3GB gonna be believing his 'master race' rig will be keeping up with Ps5/Series X

 

[junguler]

if it makes you sleep better at night, sure why not.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

1. I have nothing against consoles; I own two: the PS4 Pro and the X1X.

2. Consoles prevent developers from taking full advantage of what PC has to offer since developers are incentivized to make games with the specifications of consoles in mind rather than those of PC. Having said that, I'm not personally aggrieved by this, because on PC we still get better visual experiences due to higher frame rates, higher resolutions, higher quality textures, better anti-aliasing, and unique capabilities such as being able to install mods.

Lol, even if consoles didn't exist developers still wouldn't be taking full advantage of what PC has to offer. That's the nature of an open platform with so many possible configurations

 

[VFXVeteran]

1. I have nothing against consoles; I own two: the PS4 Pro and the X1X.

2. Consoles prevent developers from taking full advantage of what PC has to offer since developers are incentivized to make games with the specifications of consoles in mind rather than those of PC. Having said that, I'm not personally aggrieved by this, because on PC we still get better visual experiences due to higher frame rates, higher resolutions, higher quality textures, better anti-aliasing, and unique capabilities such as being able to install mods.

Wow. What developers have ever told you that? Where they at?

 

[GiJoint]

Consoles prevent developers taking advantage of what PC has to offer....

But that’s hardly the console manufacturer fault is it? They bring games to the masses and have a duty of care to keep pricing affordable. The current crop coming out this year are by no means slouches.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I can't wait to see what this looks like on PC, hopefully they have increased the fidelity of the effects in some way so its not just the fps and res we can push. Even just seeing it in 60 OR native 4K would be special though. I'm thinking it might be one of those games where you have to sacrifice too much to run it at locked 60 on PC [Becoming more common these days, eg Fallen Order] at 4K, so I'll prob just end up locking to 30 like the consoles and boosting everything else. I played the whole game through at 30hz on both PS4 and Pro so I'm sure it'll still feel good.

According to PS warriors, this was never intended to be ported to PC so all of the assets are just PS4 assets (low res textures, shadow maps, small LOD modeling, limited anisotropic filtering, fake bounced lighting, etc..). Sorry no upgrades except resolution and FPS.

 

[Psykodad]

I'm not going to give my opinion because it will be ignored, refuted, invalidated and/or ridiculed by the console warriors.. What they believe will always be true.








etc.. etc..

listen to those guys. They know all about hardware and consoles and how games are designed.

Didn’t you get RDNA2 for XSX wrong, with all your inside info?

 

[VFXVeteran]

Didn’t you get RDNA2 wrong, with all you inside info?

No but that's not going to change your opinion of me in the slightest, so what difference does it make that I was correct?

 

[Mistershine.]

Your clocks for the XSX are wrong, it runs at 3.6 with SMT and 3.8 without.

 

[Punished Miku]

I still think Luigis mansion 3 looks awesome. I'll be fine ...