• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X Will Both Be Partially Outclassed by the Time That They're Released And Fully Outclassed One Year Later

R

RookX22

Member
BluRayHiDef said:
This is untrue; the PC version of Red Dead Redemption 2 blows the console versions out of the water, into the sky, through the atmosphere, and out of orbit.

Click to expand...

Its all about the $$$, you take that out of course it will. Just like everything in the world, some things are less about the best money can buy and more about the best value for the money you spend.
 
BluRayHiDef

BluRayHiDef

Banned
So, to anyone who will build a new PC to correspond with the consoles, when will you do so and what series of CPUs and GPUs do you intend to choose from?
 
sircaw

sircaw

Banned
You just wait and see what we have in-stored for you with playstation 6 and xbox series xxx.
We will show you pc scumbags, one day.
Peace
xxx
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
BluRayHiDef said:
The CPUs in the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X are models of AMD's (Advanced Micro Devices) third generation of Ryzen CPUs (the 3000 Series), which feature the company's Zen 2 microarchitecture; both CPUs have eight cores and can process two threads (i.e. programmed instructions) per core, which means that both CPUs can process sixteen threads simultaneously. The CPU of the PlayStation 5 runs at a variable frequency that is capped at 3.5 GHz; and the CPU of the Xbox Series X runs at a constant 3.5 GHz when its ability to process two threads per core is activated and runs at 3.6 GHz when said ability is deactivated.

Among the 3000 series of Ryzen CPUs, which is the series to which the CPUs in the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X belong, there are two models that have eight cores and can process two threads per core; hence, it's reasonable to assume that each of the CPUs in the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X is one of these models. The models are as follows:
Based on the maximum frequencies of the CPUs in the PlayStation5 and the Xbox Series X being 3.5 GHz and 3.6 GHz, respectively, we can conclude that each of them is a customized Ryzen 7 3700x. Further proof of this is the 3700x's lower thermal design point of 65 watts relative to the 3800x's higher thermal design point of 105 watts; Sony and Microsoft would want the model with the lower TDP for their consoles since it's nearly as fast as the model with the higher TDP and would minimize the likelihood of their consoles overheating.

Hence, PC gamers are currently able to possess...
  • The CPU that is in both consoles (i.e. Ryzen 7 3700x)
  • More powerful models of the Ryzen 3000 series (e.g. 3900x [12 cores, 2 threads per core], 3950x [16 cores, 2 threads per core], 3960x [24 cores, 48 threads], 3970x [32 cores, 2 threads per core], 3990x [64 cores, 2 threads per core])
Furthermore, the Ryzen 4000 series of CPUs, which will be the successor to the Ryzen 3000 series and will feature AMD's Zen 3 microarchitecture, is expected to be released in the Fall. So, before either console is released, PC gamers will be able to possess CPUs with even newer technology and better performance than those in the consoles and others among the generation to which they belong.
___________________________

The GPUs in both the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X are also customized versions of technology designed by AMD. The GPU of each console features a customized version of AMD's RDNA 2.0 (Radeon DNA 2.0) microarchitecture, which will debut in the successor to AMD's currently-available RX 5000 series of graphics cards in late Summer or during the Fall, before the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X are expected to be released.

Hence, before the consoles are released, PC gamers will be able to possess GPUs that feature...

However, in the mean time, PC gamers can possess GPUs that outmatch those of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X in terms of raw rendering speed (i.e. rendering without Variable Rate Shading or Sampler Feedback Streaming) when rendering imagery that does not contain ray tracing: the RTX 2080 Super (which is more powrful than the PS5's GPU) or the RTX 2080 Ti (which is more powerful than the XSX's GPU).

As for RAM, both consoles will have 16GB of GDDR6 RAM; GDDR6 is currently available on the Nvidia GTX 1660 Super and will presumably be on the next generation of graphics cards from both AMD and Nvidia.

However, PC gamers will have to wait a while for SSDs that are as fast as the one in the PlayStation 5, which can process data at 5.5 GB/s; it's a custom SSD with 12 channels and that is compliant with PCIe 4.0 and NVMe. At the moment, the fastest SSDs available to PC gamers that are compliant with PCIe 4.0 and NVMe can process data at 3.5 GB/s. It'll probably be a year or so until SSDs as fast as the one in the PS5 become available. As for the SSD in the XSX, it processes data at 2.5 GB/s, which is a speed that currently available SSDs for PCs can attain.

So, how long do you think it will take PC to completely advance past the tech in the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X?

EDIT:

The point of this thread isn't to insult gaming consoles, because I like consoles (I have a PS4 Pro and an X1X). The point of this thread is simply to alleviate worry that the technology in the PS5 and the Xbox One X will lead gaming design in a direction that will leave PC behind, namely the super-fast SSDs in both machines (particularly that in the PS5) and the subsequent possibility of creating open-world games that are truly seamless (i.e. have no loading screens [whether hidden by forced traversal through corridors or unhidden], instant fast travel, no forced decrease in rate of movement in order to avoid outpacing the rate at which the world is rendered, etc). This is a worry expressed by the YouTuber Coreteks in this video.
Click to expand...

So how much would this PC cost someone later this year?
 
Knightime_X

Knightime_X

Member
When these kind of topics come up I can't help but to be reminded of this:

1bRdSeX.jpg
 
BlackTron

BlackTron

Member
Breaking news: after release of tech, better tech comes out after. New phenomenon that has never happened before shocks the world with how unexpected it is.

With this revelation in hand, experts believe people will never buy tech again, perpetually caught in a cycle of just waiting for better tech later.

"If only we could have kept this dirty trade secret under wraps", said every tech company ever.
 
BlackTron

BlackTron

Member
Clear said:
In the real world though very few PC owners upgrade their systems annually, and even then its a tiny contingent who aim for cutting edge components/builds.

These consoles in truth will crush a good percentage of PC's in current use.
Click to expand...

I think the XB1X is already competing well with my PC, I'm just using a bog standard 1060. When the new systems come out, I'm going to feel pretty small lol.

Seeing as the 1060 is the most popular card of Steam users by a wide margin, it's absolutely true that next gen will beat most gaming PCs out there.
 
soulbait

soulbait

Member
In other news, water is wet.

This is how it is with consoles, but that is okay. Because it is a fixed system, developers are able to get more performance out of them. Will they match the ultra of the ultra settings on a PC, no, but many PC gamers can't either due to not updating their hardware. It is okay.
 
LemmingWithaParachute

LemmingWithaParachute

Banned
hyperbertha said:
This post is untrue. Rdr2 on PC looks no different to consoles unless you want to nitpick. Your video uses a fake raytracing shader that can also be replicated on consoles if it was an open system.
Click to expand...

The consoles arent running it at 60fps, using maxed settings for things like textures, LOD, shadows etc etc. Acknowledging the fact that PCs better hardware allowing it to run the game at higher settings isnt nitpicking or a slight, its just the nature of the beast.
 
Kuranghi

Kuranghi

Gold Member
Caio said:
3) Nobody will ever take full advantage of very expensive PC = waste of money(my habit).
Click to expand...

Can you elalborate on what you mean by this? Why wouldn't someone be able to take full advantage of a PC's power, because they have a lower res screen or something?

edit - oh wait, do you mean devs don't take advantage of high end PC's power when designing the games? Yes this is often true, but there isn't power left on the table because you can almost always just render at a higher res or render at a higher fps. These things have diminishing returns so you will never ever be able to NOT max out usage of your GPU, even on a Titan RTX. I think Doom Eternal runs at 23 fps on a Titan RTX at 8K for instance, although that probably a lot to do with the fact that the engine isn't in any way optimized to run at those types of resolutions.

CPUs are heavily under ultilised though, because the console ones are so weak compared to console ones. Except AC and their crazily-CPU-hungry towns/cities. Check out Star Citizen for a true next gen engine today.
 
Last edited:
hyperbertha

hyperbertha

Member
LemmingWithaParachute said:
The consoles arent running it at 60fps, using maxed settings for things like textures, LOD, shadows etc etc. Acknowledging the fact that PCs better hardware allowing it to run the game at higher settings isnt nitpicking or a slight, its just the nature of the beast.
Click to expand...
Xbox one X and Ps4 pro have high quality versions for LOD and textures, runs at checkerboard 4k and native 4k respectively, and delivers capped 30 fps. PC with a 2080 ti averages 35-40 fps on red dead at ultra quality, so yeah, any differences are pretty much nitpicking.
The PC's hardware difference honestly offers no significant in game advantage in most games. This is one of the reasons I'm seriously considering going console only next gen.
 
LordOfChaos

LordOfChaos

Member
The 8th gen were only equivalent to 250 dollar GPUs at launch (and that's the better PS4, ~7850), and worse on the CPUs.
The PS3 launched the same month as the much, much better 8800, albeit also more expensive as a card.

This isn't new, this is how the economics of these things work, and I think we're doing better vs PCs contemproary to the 9th gen than we did on the relatively weak from the start 8th gen.
 
Last edited:
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
DunDunDunpachi said:
It's always the same story: consoles are "outclassed" almost immediately and yet -- outside of an ever-shrinking number of AAA exclusives -- videogames are still designed and built with console constraints in mind. At best, PC gets the consolation prize of higher LoD, better framerate, higher resolution, etc for the exact same console-limited narrow corridor shooter and copypasted open world.
Click to expand...

Seriously. PC still get's the console's hand-me-downs.

I am just thankful both are pushing the storage medium interface forward for the PC arena. Dump those damned anemic mechanical drives for gaming.
 
Last edited:
D

DoctaThompson

Banned
hyperbertha said:
Xbox one X and Ps4 pro have high quality versions for LOD and textures, runs at checkerboard 4k and native 4k respectively, and delivers capped 30 fps. PC with a 2080 ti averages 35-40 fps on red dead at ultra quality, so yeah, any differences are pretty much nitpicking.
The PC's hardware difference honestly offers no significant in game advantage in most games. This is one of the reasons I'm seriously considering going console only next gen.
Click to expand...
Lmao did you pull those numbers out your ass or what?! A simple Google search will show you definitely made up numbers to try and prove a point, which miserably failed. Here are the REAL results.


Bx26NM6.png
 
Last edited:
Kuranghi

Kuranghi

Gold Member
hyperbertha said:
PC with a 2080 ti averages 35-40 fps on red dead at ultra quality, so yeah, any differences are pretty much nitpicking.
Click to expand...

Maybe at 4K, with a bunch of (unecessary) MSAA on and ultra settings that are meant for future setups [when targetting 4K and 60+hz refresh rates], you'll see those framerates.

Its perfectly possible to play RDR 2 at 4K@locked 60 on a 2080ti + decent 8 core processor. So its double the framerate + higher fidelity settings [Like shadows and reflections] + gfx features not even on console at all, hardly a "nitpicking" difference lol.

If you can't tell the difference then you are laughing, because you save a bunch of money. Some people can easily notice these differences though.
 
Virex

Virex

Banned
BluRayHiDef said:
The CPUs in the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X are models of AMD's (Advanced Micro Devices) third generation of Ryzen CPUs (the 3000 Series), which feature the company's Zen 2 microarchitecture; both CPUs have eight cores and can process two threads (i.e. programmed instructions) per core, which means that both CPUs can process sixteen threads simultaneously. The CPU of the PlayStation 5 runs at a variable frequency that is capped at 3.5 GHz; and the CPU of the Xbox Series X runs at a constant 3.5 GHz when its ability to process two threads per core is activated and runs at 3.6 GHz when said ability is deactivated.

Among the 3000 series of Ryzen CPUs, which is the series to which the CPUs in the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X belong, there are two models that have eight cores and can process two threads per core; hence, it's reasonable to assume that each of the CPUs in the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X is one of these models. The models are as follows:
Based on the maximum frequencies of the CPUs in the PlayStation5 and the Xbox Series X being 3.5 GHz and 3.6 GHz, respectively, we can conclude that each of them is a customized Ryzen 7 3700x. Further proof of this is the 3700x's lower thermal design point of 65 watts relative to the 3800x's higher thermal design point of 105 watts; Sony and Microsoft would want the model with the lower TDP for their consoles since it's nearly as fast as the model with the higher TDP and would minimize the likelihood of their consoles overheating.

Hence, PC gamers are currently able to possess...
  • The CPU that is in both consoles (i.e. Ryzen 7 3700x)
  • More powerful models of the Ryzen 3000 series (e.g. 3900x [12 cores, 2 threads per core], 3950x [16 cores, 2 threads per core], 3960x [24 cores, 48 threads], 3970x [32 cores, 2 threads per core], 3990x [64 cores, 2 threads per core])
Furthermore, the Ryzen 4000 series of CPUs, which will be the successor to the Ryzen 3000 series and will feature AMD's Zen 3 microarchitecture, is expected to be released in the Fall. So, before either console is released, PC gamers will be able to possess CPUs with even newer technology and better performance than those in the consoles and others among the generation to which they belong.
___________________________

The GPUs in both the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X are also customized versions of technology designed by AMD. The GPU of each console features a customized version of AMD's RDNA 2.0 (Radeon DNA 2.0) microarchitecture, which will debut in the successor to AMD's currently-available RX 5000 series of graphics cards in late Summer or during the Fall, before the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X are expected to be released.

Hence, before the consoles are released, PC gamers will be able to possess GPUs that feature...

However, in the mean time, PC gamers can possess GPUs that outmatch those of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X in terms of raw rendering speed (i.e. rendering without Variable Rate Shading or Sampler Feedback Streaming) when rendering imagery that does not contain ray tracing: the RTX 2080 Super (which is more powrful than the PS5's GPU) or the RTX 2080 Ti (which is more powerful than the XSX's GPU).

As for RAM, both consoles will have 16GB of GDDR6 RAM; GDDR6 is currently available on the Nvidia GTX 1660 Super and will presumably be on the next generation of graphics cards from both AMD and Nvidia.

However, PC gamers will have to wait a while for SSDs that are as fast as the one in the PlayStation 5, which can process data at 5.5 GB/s; it's a custom SSD with 12 channels and that is compliant with PCIe 4.0 and NVMe. At the moment, the fastest SSDs available to PC gamers that are compliant with PCIe 4.0 and NVMe can process data at 3.5 GB/s. It'll probably be a year or so until SSDs as fast as the one in the PS5 become available. As for the SSD in the XSX, it processes data at 2.5 GB/s, which is a speed that currently available SSDs for PCs can attain.

So, how long do you think it will take PC to completely advance past the tech in the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X?

EDIT:

The point of this thread isn't to insult gaming consoles, because I like consoles (I have a PS4 Pro and an X1X). The point of this thread is simply to alleviate worry that the technology in the PS5 and the Xbox One X will lead gaming design in a direction that will leave PC behind, namely the super-fast SSDs in both machines (particularly that in the PS5) and the subsequent possibility of creating open-world games that are truly seamless (i.e. have no loading screens [whether hidden by forced traversal through corridors or unhidden], instant fast travel, no forced decrease in rate of movement in order to avoid outpacing the rate at which the world is rendered, etc). This is a worry expressed by the YouTuber Coreteks in this video.
Click to expand...
Has this been confirmed by Hellpoint Dev?
 
Eliciel

Eliciel

Member
BluRayHiDef said:
This is untrue; the PC version of Red Dead Redemption 2 blows the console versions out of the water, into the sky, through the atmosphere, and out of orbit.

Click to expand...


Generally speaking you are right.

However, it is the same discussion as with Muscle Cars with ridicolously high horse power - 780 hp and 8zylinders 6 Liter Engines vs. 430hp 6zylinders bi-turbo 4.5 Liter Engine...
Yes, on a straight line the muscle car will blow this 6 zylinder out of the water, into the sky, through the atmosphere and out of orbit - but at what cost? Efficiency is really, really bad, because as soon as there is a tiny little change coming into that straight line it gets really hard to keep up that argument and even on the straight line the "super charged" 6 zylinder bi-turbo solution is actually doing really well and don't get started by the costs for the actual hardware, because that is essentially very different than cars to be honest.
It's all about the Process knowledge, the R&D expertise of the engine and the manufacturing proccess, it's about detailed knowledge on the full system and know-how of a well crafted car.

Having said that and with that mindset:
Yes, the PC will outdo anything at anytime by a big, big leap. But at what costs?..

Look at the following gifs, The gifs are from end of 2017 on a PS4 Pro and this is just one example from one console, there are many more equally available on Xbox and PlayStation that are showing incredible results for a console with these kind of processors built in - we're talking mid-tier range in 2017, by now, these consoles are low-end tier at best in 2020 compared to a 2080Ti, Ryzen 3600+, 16gb RAM etc.

Do you feel like the game is visually looking that much less appealing than the stats-difference would imply?
I really don't... in essence we can do that example on both consoles and they are by far inferior to a PC stat-wise. They could never handle RDR2 to run at 4K Ultra Settings with 60FPS...to be honest a hell of a PC is needed to actually run that thing smoothly on a PC even... So for the delta in actual raw-power it's jaw dropping what consoles are able to achieve by smart system architecture, hand-tailored engines, APIs etc. etc. - Only time will tell what the situation will look like these days..

0qQAD7z.gif


TsoFpWe.gif


434KDdL.gif
 
Last edited:
BluRayHiDef

BluRayHiDef

Banned
Caio said:
...Nobody will ever take full advantage of very expensive PC = waste of money(my habit).
Click to expand...

This is untrue. Star Citizen is a game that can only be experienced on PC due to it's extremely large worlds (it is comprised of multiple planets) through which you can travel via spaceships, as well as iitshigh-quality graphics.
 
ZywyPL

ZywyPL

Banned
Some people will have much stronger rigs before the consoles even arrive, some even already do, but most people will fall far behind. The vast majority of PCs still sit on 1080p to begin with, and the Steam survey shows not the best picture, to say the least - average Joe's PC lies somewhere between PS4 and Pro, so when PS5/XBX launch the difference will be enormous. And those people won't drop at least 1000$ to catch up.
 
T

Tomma19

Neo Member
BluRayHiDef said:
This is untrue. Star Citizen is a game that can only be experienced on PC due to it's extremely large worlds (it is comprised of multiple planets) through which you can travel via spaceships, as well as iitshigh-quality graphics.
Click to expand...
Yeah, avoid ALL the other comments that have shot you down just to pick the one that you have an example for.
 
Jigsaah

Jigsaah

Member
I think the more significant take away here is that if what OP says is true...it's going to take a year for the next gen consoles to be "outclassed". That speaks volumes to how powerful these machines are gonna be at launch. Usually PC's were well beyond what the coming consoles offered. Now it's PC who needs to gain a lead again. All at 4 times the price.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Ryzen 9 9950X3D and 9900X3D to Feature 3D V-cache on Both CCD Chiplets
Hardware 2 3
100
6K
Chiggs replied
Leak - Zen 5 is now in mass production, release in late 2024
Hardware 2
61
7K
CuteFaceJay replied
Darksiders II: Deathinitive Edition - Announcement Trailer | Releases on PlayStation 5 & Xbox Series X|S on October 15th
Trailer 2 3 4
164
11K
Thick Thighs Save Lives replied
Intel’s Officialy Announces new flagship CPUs Core Ultra 200S
News 2
73
5K
marquimvfs replied
PlayStation 6, Xbox Next Could Deliver The Biggest Generational Leap With Machine Learning; Current Generation Was Oversold
News Hardware 2 3 4
185
8K
DiscoDave replied
Top Bottom