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[Triumph]

Fourthly, the basic problem with such a test is, well, let’s say you made it. Forget the fact you say you couldn’t, let’s say you did. Who would most assuredly pass the test? You would. You’re children would, you’re friends would, and the people that believe and think the same way as you would. Some others would, but not too many. That’s the problem with what you propose.

Sigh... man, I really hate to do this. But you wouldn't be passing any voting rights test that I could contrive until you figured out the proper use of "you're" and "your".

 

[Matt]

Sigh... man, I really hate to do this. But you wouldn't be passing any voting rights test that I could contrive until you figured out the proper use of "you're" and "your".

Oh no, I’m caught!
I know the difference between “your” and “you’re.” I’m dyslexic, and typing anything is rather difficult, so if I occasionally have a double typo, I hope you understand :rolleyes

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

I know the difference between “your” and “you’re.” I’m dyslexic, and typing anything is rather difficult, so if I occasionally have a double typo, I hope you understand :rolleyes

This is no room for dyslexics in my new voting order. Consider yourself persona non grata.

 

[Matt]

This is no room for dyslexics in my new voting order. Consider yourself persona non grata.

See, this is the problem (and yes Slick, I know you were kidding, but for the sake of argument, I’m going to pretend you were serious.) I have a learning disability that impairs me in multiple ways, mainly spelling. Frankly, I can’t do it worth shit. Yet, according to SATs, IQ Tests, etc., I’m a “genius.” How would a voting test judge me?

 

[Sirpopopop]

This topic should have been locked after Drinky Crow's response.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

See, this is the problem (and yes Slick, I know you were kidding, but for the sake of argument, I’m going to pretend you were serious.) I have a learning disability that impairs me in multiple ways, mainly spelling. Frankly, I can’t do it worth shit. Yet, according to SATs, IQ Tests, etc., I’m a “genius.” How would a voting test judge me?

Agreed and Agreed.

 

[SD-Ness]

See, this is the problem (and yes Slick, I know you were kidding, but for the sake of argument, I’m going to pretend you were serious.) I have a learning disability that impairs me in multiple ways, mainly spelling. Frankly, I can’t do it worth shit. Yet, according to SATs, IQ Tests, etc., I’m a “genius.” How would a voting test judge me?

Haha. Matt's in his own little polemical nirvana right now.

 

[Hitokage]

Ah, the joys of thinking up a response to a thread only after you start a work shift. :/

jinx: Frankly, while you diagnose the problem well, your solution is looking at it the wrong way. Rather than excluding people who dwell in ingorance, we should work to make it so that they aren't ignorant in the first place, and there are many things left to do before we start considering the worth of individual persons' enfranchisement. The media, for starters, is currently a circus of ratings-whoring clowns and dissemblers. Rather than explain the issues at stake, they get concerned about a canidate's warddrobe or sex appeal, and generally refuse to cross-examine anything. People can only make decisions based on the information known to them, and when their source of information is corrupted so is their judgement. Another focus would be overhauling America's history cirriculum. It's time we ditch the bullshit fairytale that history is a timeline of one improvement or success after another, and start telling it as history, the reason today's world exists as it does. People don't like what's been done in the past, and that's understandable, but it must be understood if we're to overcome it.

I'm sure you know I could go on... but really, society needs to make sure its not failing its citizens before citizens can be considered to be failing society.

 

[xabre]

I completely agree with the opening post. Society should be an aristocracy of education, granting the ability to all to vote on minor social issues but restricting the right to vote when it comes to important considerations such as economic development, foreign policy, security etc depending on educational qualifications.

Democracy itself is inherently flawed as it relies upon an educated population to direct the laws and polices of the nation; when in reality that population is easily manipulated and directed by the social elite. Such manipulation of 'the great beast' as it has been called, through well established institutions such as the supposedly independent corporate media results in a direction of policy that favours the interests of the social elite.

 

[Mandark]

Besides what Drinky said, any system to weed out stupid voters would be innately unfair, the type of unfairness depending on who determined and enforced the new voting criteria. Remember that literacy tests used to be a way of disenfranchising black voters in the south, for example.

xabre: So handing the economic and military policy to a group of technocrats who aren't held accountable by the people whose lives they affect would somehow move power away from the elite? Why, that's so crazy it just may fail...

PS There are all kinds of different state-by-state laws about whether mentally retarded or otherwise challenged citizens are allowed to vote, so I wouldn't say breathing is the only requirement.

PPS Old people can be just as stupid as young people, and the right of voting probably should go along with the other responsibilities of adulthood that are legally conferred at 18.

PPPS Shut up, Azih, you didn't go to those schools!

 

[Azih]

What... I can't point and laugh?

Edit: And xabre wouldn't improving the public education system and enforcing strict media ownership laws take care of all of the issues you talk about? without y'know being insane?

 

[Matlock]

jinx: Frankly, while you diagnose the problem well, your solution is looking at it the wrong way. Rather than excluding people who dwell in ingorance, we should work to make it so that they aren't ignorant in the first place, by magically making people care about politics enough to watch something that goes past their attention span of five minutes.

fixed.

 

[Hitman]

I read the thread title and laughed.. I thought this was gonna be an hilarious joke thread. Man was i wrong

 

[Zaptruder]

Alot of pretty things been said in this thread...

but when it comes down to it... we should only really care about the practical effect; sure the notion of giving everyone a say in the goverment, because it effects them is initially a nice one. But given the practicalities; the size of the population, the apathy, the power of government, the power of media...

The practical, the real effect is that many many people are misled, vote poorly, etc, etc. In theory this wouldn't be too bad; the stupid people should cancel each other out; leaving the smart people to take the correct sides.

But of course the practical effect is that there is most likely a skew of voters; those that don't examine the issues deeply or see politics from a longer term view may skew one way.

So what we have in America now is a system of government, roughly decided by media influence, superficial issues and a large amount of misdirection, from important issues that may be hard to understand to flashier, more headline friendly issues.


As for the fix, I'd propose a meritocracy; to which people like to jump in and say, how do you decide merit? Well it's not hard; but it would require a long winded answer that is rather less snappy, but better considered than the question posed.


=====


When you ignore the practical effect; stating the ideals, that while on paper may sound nice, in reality haven't quite worked out as nicely...
you should know then, those set of ideals have failed to take into proper consideration extra factors... and are as a result, not ideal, but in fact a corruption.


=====

"I'm sure you know I could go on... but really, society needs to make sure its not failing its citizens before citizens can be considered to be failing society."

Society and its citizens; entwines upon itself. It's like the yin and the yang; society is created by it's people, and the society helps in turn to mold those people.
At this point in time... for a good fix; a huge cultural change is needed... alot of things need to be changed, the way we think, the goals we pursue, even the interests we have as a society need to be changed.
I'm not sure how you'd go about culturally conditioning a group of people like americans; rather than letting itself haphazardly evolving, slowly and randomly shifting towards posititivty. But I'd imagine education reform would have alot to do with it.

But then... in this cultural atmosphere... how do you shift focus away from things like terrorism; which has high visual impact, but little real effect (in immediate lives lost)... towards things like education, which is almost invisible in daily news, but effect our lives hugely, not only as individuals, but as a nation and its future? (when I say education, I don't just mean schools... but cultural education; making everyone more critical consumers, a drive towards less impulsivity, less consumerism, etc).
It would almost require a forced change in government; the next best thing would be to allow people that have more carefully considered the idea of government and the effects that policies have; balancing the effect of short term gain and area of effect vs long term gain...

 

[Drinky Crow]

How about we just finally let the South secede?

 

[Mermandala]

North Dakota is pretty far south huh?

 

[Drinky Crow]

We can let a few Red states hang around for, y'know, the color. Or we can turn them into giant Wal-Marts.

 

[sprsk]

How about we just finally let the South secede?

I totally support this.

 

[Mermandala]

Can we keep just a few southern states too, y'know, for the coloreds?(some around here would think collards).

I kid because I must. I live in NC. Without us there is no boytoy on this ticket.

 

[Zaptruder]

How about we just finally let the South secede?

I didn't know what secede meant, but now I understand.

Yes... split the north and the south. We'll call the south New America.