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[Linkified]

DrDaves Dave
http://bit.ly/hu3Umy A darker and smoking Jo? That green light would have been awesome huh

Is he trying to tell us this article had some validity you think?

More like the project was never green lit.

 

[[Nintex]]

DrDaves Dave
http://bit.ly/hu3Umy A darker and smoking Jo? That green light would have been awesome huh

Is he trying to tell us this article had some validity you think?

That article is 100% based on 'reality'. There's just no way of knowing how the hell it leaked out to an indian(?) gamesite. Underpaid contracter, Helpdesk Call Center deal gone wrong? Who knows

 

[SapientWolf]

Unless their strategy turns around or they've got a few tricks up their sleeve there's no hope at all for any classic Rare franchises. When people talked shit about Rare I always responded with: "Yeah but their music team is still there" and when David Wise, Duncan Botwood, Mark Edmonds and others left it turned into: "Yeah but Chris Seavor is still there...." I think that I shouldn't change it to: "Yeah but Gregg Mayles is still there" before MS does the unthinkable.

It ruined my day when I found out that the guy that did the KI intro music also did the Kinect Sports intro music. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

 

[The Awkward Wizard]

DrDaves Dave
http://bit.ly/hu3Umy A darker and smoking Jo? That green light would have been awesome huh

Is he trying to tell us this article had some validity you think?

How many times was a Perfect Dark game canceled? From what I understood:

• There's this one with moral choices and gray colors.
• There was one that had mechs in it.
• And there was one that was similar to Mirror's Edge.

Between the Tweets, and the models/concept art, I was hoping the leaks would soothe the pain.

It's only making me feel worse

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

How many times was a Perfect Dark game canceled? From what I understood:

• There's this one with moral choices and gray colors.
• There was one that had mechs in it.
• And there was one that was similar to Mirror's Edge.

Between the Tweets, and the models/concept art, I was hoping the leaks would soothe the pain.

It's only making me feel worse

Hmm, I don't see why Perfect Dark 2 couldn't have been those three different games you described all in one? With all the controversy surrounding Rare recently we might here some concrete details...

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

It ruined my day when I found out that the guy that did the KI intro music also did the Kinect Sports intro music. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Robin Beanland recently did the music for an iPad app called The Three Little Pigs. The music in it is very fun and kind of reminds me of B-K.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKAte2pjGtI&feature=player_embedded

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

Rare's lobby has a new mural...

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

Rare's lobby has a new mural...

And you helped contribute to that change by buying that game.

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

And you helped contribute to that change by buying that game.

What do you think the story of Rare would have been if Kinect Sports flopped? It is one of the best selling Kinect games and they are cutting all their artists and many other employees have left or been let go as well.

 

[TheOddOne]

And you helped contribute to that change by buying that game.

Why don't you go back to "converting people" to the PS3 at your job.

 

[saunderez]

And you helped contribute to that change by buying that game.

Good. It's a great game. Rare deserved a win.

 

[TheOddOne]

What you're saying is like arguing that criminals shouldn't be put in prison because they have friends who will then hurt the people who put them in prison. The second part of both scenarios may play out but the first part is based on a separate logic of accountability.

Managers who greenlight products that don't sell should be held responsible for their work. Are you proposing those who approve duds be kept on and the people who followed orders and made the dud be fired? I know that's how a lot of politics and business works but it's pretty morally vacuous.

Your trying to make a argument, that isn't a valid argument. Those people approved Viva Pinata and Banjo, those didn't sell that well and that means they should be fired?

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

What do you think the story of Rare would have been if Kinect Sports flopped? It is one of the best selling Kinect games and they are cutting all their artists and many other employees have left or been let go as well.

It wouldn’t make a difference then, would it? Although, we’d probably have another Ensemble/FASA situation, but we’d benefit from that if the devs went the Robot Entertainment/Smith & Tinker route like what happened to the Age of Empires/MechWarrior/Shadowrun/Crimson Skies franchises. So we'd probably get more SabreWulf, Battletoads, Jet Force Gemini, Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Kameo, Blast Corps, Snake Rattle 'n' Roll, etcetera out of that deal (that is, if Microsoft were to close down Rare due to poor sales of Kinect Sports, which ain't gonna happen now due to casual lovers like you).

Which reminds me, supposedly the Stamper Bros. are back at the old farmhouse where Ultimate Play the Game was conceived and they are contemplating their move to have Microsoft license out some of the old franchises that they used to own. SabreWulf was one of the games that was mentioned. This information is something that I recall reading at OCRemix.

 

[jay]

Your trying to make a argument, that isn't a valid argument. Those people approved Viva Pinata and Banjo, those didn't sell that well and that means they should be fired?

First of all, your argument seems to be, "I like game x and so people who allowed it to be made should be employed." Secondly, you haven't explained why it makes more sense to fire the people who made game x than to fire the management who told the team to make game x. My position is that there should be some sort of accountability within the upper layers of a company that determines what to make and what not to make and that it is unfair that the lower level guys take the brunt of a flop when it wasn't necessarily their decision to make the game.

Obviously there are a lot of complications to something like this. The team could have fucked up an idea that really could have sold well, for example. It's tough to make this black and white, but in general if a game comes out and is polished and great but doesn't sell at all, the people high up who decided it would sell should be looked at before the actual designers and programmers are looked at if layoffs are brewing. Though I'd assume it's the guys who greenlight games that get to decide who gets laid off...

 

[Rad-]

Kinect Sports is Rare's most fun game in 10 years. And I don't generally even like casual games.

 

[Linkified]

It wouldn’t make a difference then, would it? Although, we’d probably have another Ensemble/FASA situation, but we’d benefit from that if the devs went the Robot Entertainment/Smith & Tinker route like what happened to the Age of Empires/MechWarrior/Shadowrun/Crimson Skies franchises. So we'd probably get more SabreWulf, Battletoads, Jet Force Gemini, Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Kameo, Blast Corps, Snake Rattle 'n' Roll, etcetera out of that deal (that is, if Microsoft were to close down Rare due to poor sales of Kinect Sports, which ain't gonna happen now due to casual lovers like you).

Which reminds me, supposedly the Stamper Bros. are back at the old farmhouse where Ultimate Play the Game was conceived and they are contemplating their move to have Microsoft license out some of the old franchises that they used to own. SabreWulf was one of the games that was mentioned. This information is something that I recall reading at OCRemix.

They did go into the property business honestly they made their money no need to go back.

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

They did go into the property business honestly they made their money no need to go back.

(bear with me here because I am typing from an iPhone)

Well, the same could have been said for the ex-ensemble and ex-fasa employees,yet as soon as they were disbanded, they went back to microsoft and came to an agreement to license out the respective franchises they used to work on. It's not unheard of. Hell, Sakurai went back to developing games for Nintendo after he left their second party Hal.

 

[apana]

Sell the Banjo Kazooie IP to Activision. Eurocom is talented enough now to make the game.

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

Wikipedia states:

"The Stamper brothers have since moved into engineering and land development."

But there is a citation needed...

 

[Shiggy]

Wikipedia states:

"The Stamper brothers have since moved into engineering and land development."

But there is a citation needed...

They've bought something when they were still at Rare, there's no other foundation to that rumour.

 

[szaromir]

First of all, your argument seems to be, "I like game x and so people who allowed it to be made should be employed." Secondly, you haven't explained why it makes more sense to fire the people who made game x than to fire the management who told the team to make game x. My position is that there should be some sort of accountability within the upper layers of a company that determines what to make and what not to make and that it is unfair that the lower level guys take the brunt of a flop when it wasn't necessarily their decision to make the game.

Obviously there are a lot of complications to something like this. The team could have fucked up an idea that really could have sold well, for example. It's tough to make this black and white, but in general if a game comes out and is polished and great but doesn't sell at all, the people high up who decided it would sell should be looked at before the actual designers and programmers are looked at if layoffs are brewing. Though I'd assume it's the guys who greenlight games that get to decide who gets laid off...

Dude it's a creative industry, there always is some risk involved and people shouldn't be immediately fired when something underperforms. There's no mathematical formula to success that you can screw up during execution, one studio can create a bomb, but their next game could be a multimillion seller. Look at Bungie - Myth had rather modest sales, Oni bombed, yet Halo was huge. The idea that you're only as good as sales of your last game is destructive in the long run.

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

Dude it's a creative industry, there always is some risk involved and people shouldn't be immediately fired when something underperforms. There's no mathematical formula to success that you can screw up during execution, one studio can create a bomb, but their next game could be a multimillion seller. Look at Bungie - Myth had rather modest sales, Oni bombed, yet Halo was huge. The idea that you're only as good as sales of your last game is destructive in the long run.

(I am now back at my home PC so there shouldn't be any spelling/grammar issues in this post.

Spoiler

Oh, and see? Isn't it better when somebody prepares you for a poorly-typed post due to a handheld device? I wish more people did it the way I did...

)

We're talking about Microsoft here.




Yeah, sorry about that. I discussed more about typing than the topic at hand in this post. I really don't know what else to say on the matter

I mean, I could bring up Ensemble and FASA again, but that would be redundant.

 

[jay]

Dude it's a creative industry, there always is some risk involved and people shouldn't be immediately fired when something underperforms. There's no mathematical formula to success that you can screw up during execution, one studio can create a bomb, but their next game could be a multimillion seller. Look at Bungie - Myth had rather modest sales, Oni bombed, yet Halo was huge. The idea that you're only as good as sales of your last game is destructive in the long run.

I'm not actually for firing people. The dispute came about when someone said that the people who made the game get laid off and not the people who greenlit the game. Then someone said that's how it should be and I disagreed.

 

[illadelph]

Obligatory "Rare had an art staff?"

 

[Typographenia]

Sell the Banjo Kazooie IP to Nintendo. Retro is talented enough now to make the game.

Fixed.

Kinect sports on the wall doesn't seem that bad a thing, but I would rather see jetforce, perfect dark, banjo, or something. They would just be more interesting in general to have on the wall.
As long as Rare stays alive I have hope that one day they'll make a triumphant return.

Spoiler

I can dream, can't I?

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

Kinect sports on the wall doesn't seem that bad a thing

Yeah, the worst thing are those Samsung logos.

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

When did the Samsung thing start? PDZ yeah?

 

[[Nintex]]

A new lobby design? What for? You're a game studio Rare announce some games already.

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

A new lobby design? What for? You're a game studio Rare announce some games already.

If the rumored second round of cuts this month isn't too bad or doesn't happen there might be hope for E3.

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

If the rumored second round of cuts this month isn't too bad or doesn't happen there might be hope for E3.

Hope for a Kinect Sports sequel?

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

Hope for a Kinect Sports sequel?

Maybe not. wozza from Rare-Extreme had some pretty interesting things to say after his trip to Rare. Now this was 6 months ago but when he visited last year to take a sneak peak at PD XBLA he said he met at least 5 producers from 5 different projects. After the recent cuts who knows how many projects got axed but it might be a Kinect title other than Sports 2.

http://www.rare-extreme.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13683&view=findpost&p=227438

 

[Shiggy]

So what kind of sports do you expect for KS2? Climbing?

 

[[Nintex]]

He's expecting Rare to release an actual game like a project that was developed from start to finish lol

 

[Shiggy]

He's expecting Rare to release an actual game like a project that was developed from start to finish lol

Who knows.

 

[[Nintex]]

Who knows.

Is George Broussard going to finish development of Perfect Dark 2 or something?

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

Is George Broussard going to finish development of Perfect Dark 2 or something?

Did he even start development of Duke Nukem forever?

 

[smallios74]

Just been made a junior so wanted to post in this thread for a while, my cousin worked at Rare as Background Artist since Banjo Tooie so has been there since 2000 or so. I heard in Jan that he was selling up his place and taking redundancy at Rare as he didnt want to try and go for one of the new jobs made. Thought it was just some random job cuts, but it wasnt until i saw this thread and spoke to him i realised what exactly was going on. He wasnt to upset about leaving just a bit dissapointed, when i spoke to him the Christmas before, we was chatting about Project Natal and I dont think he sounded to impressed with the direction Rare was going. Hopefully he can carry on working in the industry somewhere, but it doesnt sound like the UK gaming industry is in that good of shape at the moment.

 

[Shiggy]

Just been made a junior so wanted to post in this thread for a while, my cousin worked at Rare as Background Artist since Banjo Tooie so has been there since 2000 or so. I heard in Jan that he was selling up his place and taking redundancy at Rare as he didnt want to try and go for one of the new jobs made. Thought it was just some random job cuts, but it wasnt until i saw this thread and spoke to him i realised what exactly was going on. He wasnt to upset about leaving just a bit dissapointed, when i spoke to him the Christmas before, we was chatting about Project Natal and I dont think he sounded to impressed with the direction Rare was going. Hopefully he can carry on working in the industry somewhere, but it doesnt sound like the UK gaming industry is in that good of shape at the moment.

Did he say anything about the canned projects?

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

Hmm, I was really hoping smallios74 would get back to us.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Maybe not. wozza from Rare-Extreme had some pretty interesting things to say after his trip to Rare. Now this was 6 months ago but when he visited last year to take a sneak peak at PD XBLA he said he met at least 5 producers from 5 different projects. After the recent cuts who knows how many projects got axed but it might be a Kinect title other than Sports 2.

http://www.rare-extreme.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13683&view=findpost&p=227438

Wozza is one of the greatest bullshit artists you'll ever meet. Trust me, I worked with him. Assume it's false.

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

Wozza is one of the greatest bullshit artists you'll ever meet. Trust me, I worked with him. Assume it's false.

That is sad to hear...

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

Wozza is one of the greatest bullshit artists you'll ever meet. Trust me, I worked with him. Assume it's false.

Anything to help save face at Rare? He doesn't work there anymore, so what's the reason for his bullshit defending?

 

[Kermit The Dog]

'Wozza' is Jeremy Nunn, the webmaster of Rare Extreme, the worst but only remaining Rare fansite. He's never worked at Rare (he's an Aussie and lives in Perth), but he visited the Twycross studios a while back.

 

[mrgone]

Is this the end of the googly-eyed monstrosity? Tune in next time!


(actually have kind of a soft spot for Rare's brand of nonsense. Hope this isn't true!)

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

Yeah, wozza hasn't worked for Rare. He has just visited the HQ a couple of times. Most recently last year.

...the worst but only remaining Rare fansite.

There is a thread on their site now talking about becoming more of a General Discussion site similar to what RWP is starting to be.

 

[The Awkward Wizard]

'Wozza' is Jeremy Nunn, the webmaster of Rare Extreme, the worst but only remaining Rare fansite. He's never worked at Rare (he's an Aussie and lives in Perth), but he visited the Twycross studios a while back.

What about the Rareware Archives (formally Spiral Mountain)? They seem pretty good; certainly better than Rare-Extreme. I've always wondered why MundoRare, one of the best Rare fansites, never got their tour, but Rare-Extreme got 2 tours.

And as far as canned projects go, I remember that when they laid off artists last March, Betteridge mentioned that they had projects in the works, and in an interview in 2008, Nick Burton said that "You'll be hearing soon enough" about those projects. Were those old Rare games, or the Kinect casual ones?

 

[Shiggy]

What about the Rareware Archives (formally Spiral Mountain)? They seem pretty good; certainly better than Rare-Extreme. I've always wondered why MundoRare, one of the best Rare fansites, never got their tour, but Rare-Extreme got 2 tours.

And as far as canned projects go, I remember that when they laid off artists last March, Betteridge mentioned that they had projects in the works, and in an interview in 2008, Nick Burton said that "You'll be hearing soon enough" about those projects. Were those old Rare games, or the Kinect casual ones?

Everything from March 2009 onwards was either XBLA or Kinect, if I remember correctly. Not all was Fitness or Sports stuff though, I believe there was a kart racer though I don't have enough information to truly confirm it.

The Christmas card gave some hints:

 

[Veal]

Everything from March 2009 onwards was either XBLA or Kinect, if I remember correctly. Not all was Fitness or Sports stuff though, I believe there was a kart racer though I don't have enough information to truly confirm it.

The Christmas card gave some hints:

How could they do this?

Spoiler

I want a new Killer Instinct so bad AND BLAST CORPS TOO DAMMIT

 

[TheOddOne]

It wouldn’t make a difference then, would it? Although, we’d probably have another Ensemble/FASA situation, but we’d benefit from that if the devs went the Robot Entertainment/Smith & Tinker route like what happened to the Age of Empires/MechWarrior/Shadowrun/Crimson Skies franchises. So we'd probably get more SabreWulf, Battletoads, Jet Force Gemini, Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Kameo, Blast Corps, Snake Rattle 'n' Roll, etcetera out of that deal (that is, if Microsoft were to close down Rare due to poor sales of Kinect Sports, which ain't gonna happen now due to casual lovers like you).

Which reminds me, supposedly the Stamper Bros. are back at the old farmhouse where Ultimate Play the Game was conceived and they are contemplating their move to have Microsoft license out some of the old franchises that they used to own. SabreWulf was one of the games that was mentioned. This information is something that I recall reading at OCRemix.

Wow, what a condescending way to talk to a another poster.

Your not better then him because you don't like Kinect Sports.

 

[The Awkward Wizard]

Everything from March 2009 onwards was either XBLA or Kinect, if I remember correctly. Not all was Fitness or Sports stuff though, I believe there was a kart racer though I don't have enough information to truly confirm it.

The Christmas card gave some hints:

By "XBLA", do you just mean just stuff like BK and PD XBLA enhanced ports, or brand new games developed for XBLA like Castle Crashers or 'Splosion Man?

And based on the Christmas card, I'm going to guess:
The racquet, the ball, and the ping pong paddle meant Kinect Sports
The bulldozer meant Blast Corps
The TJ boxing glove meant Killer Instinct
The green car meant a kart racer
The rocket means something (I have no idea)
And the snowglobe with the floating honey combs meant a new Banjo-Kazooie

Even if half of those are right, it's still so depressing...