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[Magnus]

Every time a news story breaks on Rare, hires/fires/structure changes, etc....I'm reminded that they exist.

What are the odds/legalities of a KI resurrection?

 

[RPGCrazied]

How come they never did a this gen Killer Instinct? Thats the only game I remember from RARE. Oh well, might be a little to late now.

 

[Banjoman]

Craig Duncan becomes Rare’s Senior Studio Director

Is it a good news?

 

[Shiggy]

And just today...

Perfect Dark Core was a prototype which was intended as a sequel critically acclaimed Nintendo 64 shooter Perfect Dark. While Microsoft already released a PD title at the Xbox 360 launch (Perfect Dark Zero), which was originally supposed to be published on the GameCube but was then moved to the Xbox and then to Xbox 360, it was mildy received and not nearly as successful as the original N64 title.

Perfect Dark Core would have brought some drastic changes to the franchise. Perfect Dark Zero was developed by the remaints of the original Perfect Dark team, which was led by Chris Tilston. However, after PDZ was finished in late 2005, the team was split into smaller teams that started work on different prototypes. One of these was The Fast & the Furriest, its team was led by PDZ’s story and script writer Dale Murchie. Another prototype team was led by Mark Edmonds and Chris Tilston, both worked on an MMO which was cancelled during the company restructure in early 2009. As the leads of the PD series were either bound to other (later to be cancelled) projects or had already left the company (with one being graphics director Kevin Bayliss), Rare’s management decided to hand the PD franchise to the developers of Conker, a team led by Chris Seavor. Some of the Conker team had already helped during the final stages of Perfect Dark Zero when it was ported to Xbox 360, others had worked on Urchin, a gothic/horror prototype cancelled in 2006.

Perfect Dark Core featured a more realistic atmosphere than its precedessors, with Joanna having a different and less feminine behaviour (smoking, flirting).

During development of Perfect Dark Core, the team made drastic changes to this original concept. The player did no longer control Joanna Dark, but a male character that was also seen in gameplay footage that was leaked in 2009. Other decisions remained rather vague due to its nature of being a prototype.

In late 2008, the prototype, that only featured one completed level, was still not greenlit. Instead, the team was cut down to only three developers, which meant the ending of the project. Most of its staff was put onto other projects – of which many were not released either. By that time, however, the prototype that started out as Perfect Dark Core was no longer set in the PD universe, it was not even referred to as Perfect Dark Core. While the gameplay was still an action FPS, the player was supposed to shoot at mechs that were controlled by humans (in case of this prototype the mech was controlled by the protagonist that was designed for an earlier built and seen in leaked gameplay footage). This was the last stage of the prototype after which it was entirely abandoned.

http://www.unseen64.net/2011/03/21/perfect-dark-core-xbox-360-cancelled-prototype/
Video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhocu7_mpdc_videogames#from=embed

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

Is it a good news?

They are making Kinect Sports 2, so what do you think?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Ugh, reading that, I can't say I'm surprised that canceled that particular version. Reminds me of the travesty that was Contract J.A.C.K.

 

[[Nintex]]

Here's hoping that the new guy will be able to finish more projects. Rare and MS are sitting on a ton of IP's that could use a reboot

 

[Linkified]

And just today...

During development of Perfect Dark Core, the team made drastic changes to this original concept. The player did no longer control Joanna Dark, but a male character that was also seen in gameplay footage that was leaked in 2009. Other decisions remained rather vague due to its nature of being a prototype

http://www.unseen64.net/2011/03/21/perfect-dark-core-xbox-360-cancelled-prototype/
Video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhocu7_mpdc_videogames#from=embed

And thats why it more than likely was canned by Microsoft.

 

[Evlar]

Perfect Dark Core was a prototype which was intended as a sequel critically acclaimed Nintendo 64 shooter Perfect Dark. While Microsoft already released a PD title at the Xbox 360 launch (Perfect Dark Zero), which was originally supposed to be published on the GameCube but was then moved to the Xbox and then to Xbox 360, it was mildy received and not nearly as successful as the original N64 title.

Perfect Dark Core would have brought some drastic changes to the franchise. Perfect Dark Zero was developed by the remaints of the original Perfect Dark team, which was led by Chris Tilston. However, after PDZ was finished in late 2005, the team was split into smaller teams that started work on different prototypes. One of these was The Fast & the Furriest, its team was led by PDZ’s story and script writer Dale Murchie. Another prototype team was led by Mark Edmonds and Chris Tilston, both worked on an MMO which was cancelled during the company restructure in early 2009. As the leads of the PD series were either bound to other (later to be cancelled) projects or had already left the company (with one being graphics director Kevin Bayliss), Rare’s management decided to hand the PD franchise to the developers of Conker, a team led by Chris Seavor. Some of the Conker team had already helped during the final stages of Perfect Dark Zero when it was ported to Xbox 360, others had worked on Urchin, a gothic/horror prototype cancelled in 2006.

Perfect Dark Core featured a more realistic atmosphere than its precedessors, with Joanna having a different and less feminine behaviour (smoking, flirting).

During development of Perfect Dark Core, the team made drastic changes to this original concept. The player did no longer control Joanna Dark, but a male character that was also seen in gameplay footage that was leaked in 2009. Other decisions remained rather vague due to its nature of being a prototype.

In late 2008, the prototype, that only featured one completed level, was still not greenlit. Instead, the team was cut down to only three developers, which meant the ending of the project. Most of its staff was put onto other projects – of which many were not released either. By that time, however, the prototype that started out as Perfect Dark Core was no longer set in the PD universe, it was not even referred to as Perfect Dark Core. While the gameplay was still an action FPS, the player was supposed to shoot at mechs that were controlled by humans (in case of this prototype the mech was controlled by the protagonist that was designed for an earlier built and seen in leaked gameplay footage). This was the last stage of the prototype after which it was entirely abandoned.

For clarity.

 

[TheOddOne]

They are making Kinect Sports 2, so what do you think?

How are those lists coming along? I know for sure that your going to run for the hills like last time.

Is it a good news?

Dunno, Craig Duncan seems to have only shipped racing games. He was also head of Midway Studios Newcastle. Their last unreleased project was Necessary Force.

 

[The Awkward Wizard]

And just today...


http://www.unseen64.net/2011/03/21/perfect-dark-core-xbox-360-cancelled-prototype/
Video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhocu7_mpdc_videogames#from=embed

Wow. I'm surprised that none of the major gaming sites have reported on this yet.

Also,

Another prototype team was led by Mark Edmonds and Chris Tilston, both worked on an MMO which was cancelled during the company restructure in early 2009.

I remember hearing about Rare making a Sci-Fi MMO back when they were bought in 2002 (I think it was put on hold for Conker L&R). I wonder if they ever got a protoype up and running.

 

[Retrocide]

Ugh, reading that, I can't say I'm surprised that canceled that particular version. Reminds me of the travesty that was Contract J.A.C.K.

Fox needs to resurrect N.O.L.F.

 

[Banjoman]

They are making Kinect Sports 2, so what do you think?

Nothing.
I'm just tired of reading only bad news.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Wow. I'm surprised that none of the major gaming sites have reported on this yet.

Eurogamer has, this morning.

Fox needs to resurrect N.O.L.F.

If I remember correctly, there are some problems with IP ownership or something like that.

 

[Banjoman]

Dunno, Craig Duncan seems to have only shipped racing games. He was also head of Midway Studios Newcastle. Their last unreleased project was Necessary Force.

Oh, thanks.
We'll see.

 

[dionysus]

For clarity.

I saw that too. Of course, we are not told what stage these games were in, but the implication I get is that these games were cancelled in development, not just in the prototype phase.

To me that sounds like poor alignment between MS vision for Rare and Rare's vision for Rare.

 

[Huff]

I saw that too. Of course, we are not told what stage these games were in, but the implication I get is that these games were cancelled in development, not just in the prototype phase.

To me that sounds like poor alignment between MS vision for Rare and Rare's vision for Rare.

I am going through their released games on wiki and mismanaged is an understatement. They were spitting out multiple good games a year back in the late 90s but recently they have put out less than one game a year for the 360 (not counting old games on Xbox Arcade).

I understand a lot of the talent left, but did they massively shrink in size too?

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

I understand a lot of the talent left, but did they massively shrink in size too?

If they are at about ~100 employees now, I'd say so.

 

[Huff]

If they are at about ~100 employees now, I'd say so.

What was their size when working with Nintendo? Or even later before their restructure?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I believe they had around 200 employees a few years ago. They have less now, but I have no idea how much.

 

[Shiggy]

I believe they had around 200 employees a few years ago. They have less now, but I have no idea how much.

Around 120 +/- contractors.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

The highest it got was around the 230 mark, sometime around the acquisition.

 

[open_mouth_]

They should turn Rare into an Live Arcade + Kinect developer primarily (if they haven't already) with the occasional big ticket full blown release (~1 every 2 years).

-Get a 2D remake of Killer Instinct going for XBLA
-Kinect Sports 2
-Kinect Party
-2D Conker for XBLA
-New Full-blown Banjo game 3-d platformer/adventure/rpg in a huge world

 

[ymmv]

They should turn Rare into an Live Arcade + Kinect developer primarily (if they haven't already) with the occasional big ticket full blown release (~1 every 2 years).

-Get a 2D remake of Killer Instinct going for XBLA
-Kinect Sports 2
-Kinect Party
-2D Conker for XBLA
-New Full-blown Banjo game 3-d platformer/adventure/rpg in a huge world

And in true MS fashion everything except for Kinect Sports and Kinect Party will be canceled halfway through development leading to another mass exodus of developers and artists.

 

[Shanadeus]

Makes sense.
Don't need art when you have "Avatars".

 

[Clott]

Talk about a fall from greatness. I hope this dose not happen to anymore contemporary greats.

 

[szhred]

Nintendo should buy them back, and only then they would return to there former glory.

Kinekt sport 2, probably meh. Rare could have been so much better.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Nintendo should buy them back, and only then they would return to there former glory.

 

[StevieP]

Nintendo should buy them back, and only then they would return to there former glory.

Kinekt sport 2, probably meh. Rare could have been so much better.

Nintendo sold them for a reason.

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

conkerhimself Christopher Seavor
@IOnEI_Falcon Oh, how did that get out ? Weren't me !!. Actually it looked a bit better than that at the last. What a shame.

 

[Anticitizen One]

Rare's lobby has a new mural...

I'm confused Samsung bought out Rare and changed their mural?

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Tis sad. The previous mural was a personal gift from Nintendo Japan.

 

[jetsetfluken]

I'd rather they not make sequels on classic IP's if it's what I think Rare really has turned into.

More HD ports though in the tune of Banjo Kazooie/Tooie and Perfect Dark though. Perfect, crisp, flawless anti-aliased visuals and models with added features, achievements, leaderboards...perfect.

What's the hold-up on the Jet Force Gemini HD port for XBLA?
Seriously, I want that much more than KI.

Nintendo sold them for a reason.

I don't think they were given enough chance. It was what, 2001 it was decided to sell them? That was hardly a few years after they released some revolutionary titles (Goldeneye for one). Games post-deal or the final few like Star Fox Adventures for example had that great Rare charm, even if it wasn't pure gold like some past games. From there, it started going downhill and very fast, due to lack of creative freedom I'd assume. If they were given another year or so by Nintendo I think we would have seen some 9/10+ games by mid/late GCN era, but now those ideas and games never will be because of the turn of events.

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

Does anyone know what Mark Edmonds is up to now a days?

 

[Shed_a_Ninja]

Tis sad. The previous mural was a personal gift from Nintendo Japan.

What was it?

 

[IOnEI Falcon]

What was it?

http://www.rare-extreme.com/images/5571_111035302804_545837804_2763145_5091070_n.jpg

 

[Sydle]

And just today...



http://www.unseen64.net/2011/03/21/perfect-dark-core-xbox-360-cancelled-prototype/
Video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhocu7_mpdc_videogames#from=embed

Information like this makes me feel less sorry for Rare. The managers just weren't leading the talent in the right direction, going back and forth on ideas, extending development time and costs.

 

[spanks]

They should turn Rare into an Live Arcade + Kinect developer primarily (if they haven't already) with the occasional big ticket full blown release (~1 every 2 years).

I agree, but mainly 'cause I want a HD/online version of Conker. It had way (way) better multiplayer than the Xbox version, why did they even change it? Sadly, with the low sales of PD, I don't think we're likely to get any more ports.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

The last 'real' Rare game was Conker's Bad Fur Day, really. Rare were unshackled, had creative freedom and didn't pull any punches. Since then, pretty much every game either had a compromised development (Starfox, Kameo, PD Zero, Conker L&R) or a fundamentally flawed concept (Ghoulies, Nuts & Bolts).

Sure, Pinata was quality, and probably is the closest we have to a real Rare game... but it's definitely not the same.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Only flawed part of Nuts & Bolts to me was deciding to bill it as Banjo and Kazooie's major comeback when it played nothing like the originals (or that's how I interpreted most of the marketing/hype behind it). They would've been better off (in terms of sales, probably) either not using the BK franchise and competing more directly with another creativity-focused game like LittleBigPlanet or just striking more of a balance between the classic BK games and the concept of having a nearly limitless way to approach a situation/puzzle/mission.

As a game it was still excellent, and along with Viva Pinata the only game I think they'd made worth a damn since Conker's Bad Fur Day (though I have a soft spot for Ghoulies). Sucks to see them getting more and more controlled, but the best thing to do is wish for the best and hope they still get the occasional chance to make games like VP and N&B if Microsoft isn't interested in properly utilizing any of their other other IP.

 

[teacupcopter]

Rare used to be the best thing ever I was such a rabid, rabid fanboy. played through all of blast corps, Ge007, DKR... hell, Jet Force Gemini was probably one of my most played games, and PD... jesus. I even liked DK64.

What the fuck happened

I'm getting a 360 soon... was perfect dark zero and/or kameo any good?

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Kameo was alright; some people seem to loathe it while other people seem to see it as one of Rare's last great games, but I personally didn't think it was all that. Fun, pretty (besides some horrible character-design; only Rare game besides Star Fox Adventures to me that had genuinely bad art direction), but also incredibly short for a game being hyped since before the Gamecube's launch (though the delays weren't really Rare's fault in this or Perfect Dark Zero's case).

Viva Pinata and Nuts & Bolts are both excellent though, probably dirt-cheap and definitely deserve more love than they got. Not too surprisingly, both were (mostly?) created by the Banjo-Kazooie team.

 

[Tomasooie]

Nintendo sold them for a reason.

Yes, which was because Microsoft had acquired control of the company by buying the Stampers' majority shares.

It had nothing to do with the quality of their games. Rare was a huge and valued partner to Nintendo. Star Fox Adventures reviewed well and was a technical showcase. Nintendo's hand was forced.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

Yes, which was because Microsoft had acquired control of the company by buying the Stampers' majority shares.

It had nothing to do with the quality of their games. Rare was a huge and valued partner to Nintendo. Star Fox Adventures reviewed well and was a technical showcase. Nintendo's hand was forced.

I thought Nintendo had first refusal on the Stampers shares?

 

[Prine]

conkerhimself Christopher Seavor
@IOnEI_Falcon Oh, how did that get out ? Weren't me !!. Actually it looked a bit better than that at the last. What a shame.

Was that in response to the PD Core vid? Happy Chris is still there. Man is a genius.

 

[Celine]

I thought Nintendo had first refusal on the Stampers shares?

Yep, Nintendo didn't consider fully owning Rare was a valuable investment so they turned down the chance to buy the remaining share of Rare.
Instead they sold their own shares ( they probably got more selling their share than what they paid to buy them ) and kept the IP originally created by Nintendo ( Donkey Kong and Star Fox ).

EDIT:

Yeah, but just because they didn't want to spend what it would take to buy Rare out 100%, doesn't mean they wanted to stop working with them. It was all the Stampers' fault really. They were desperate to cash out as soon as possible. They wanted someone to buy all or nothing.

Knowing how things has turn out, I say the Stamper bros bailed out at the right time.

 

[Tomasooie]

I thought Nintendo had first refusal on the Stampers shares?

Yeah, but just because they didn't want to spend what it would take to buy Rare out 100%, doesn't mean they wanted to stop working with them. It was all the Stampers' fault really. They were desperate to cash out as soon as possible. They wanted someone to buy all or nothing.

Yep, Nintendo didn't consider fully owning Rare was a valuable investment so they turned down the chance to buy the remaining share of Rare.

It wasn't a good investment for the price. Rare's value had reached its peak, and it probably would've cost Nintendo almost $200 million to buy the rest of the company. That's outrageous.

Knowing how things has turn out, I say the Stamper bros bailed out at the right time.

It's because of their decision to sell to Microsoft that things turned out as they did. A lot of talent left as soon as Microsoft bought the company. Ghoulies was actually a really fun game, and it would have fared better on the GameCube. Instead it was Rare's first Xbox release, all eyes were on it, and it just seemed underwhelming. Conker: Live & Reloaded would not exist, and the team would be put to work on something else. Kameo wouldn't have been reworked; it would've been released on GameCube with the original design intact. Donkey Kong Racing... And I'm sure Rare would've done a true sequel to Banjo.

Things would have been very different.

 

[Kermit The Dog]

Double = /

 

[Kermit The Dog]

It's because of their decision to sell to Microsoft that things turned out as they did. A lot of talent left as soon as Microsoft bought the company.

I don't agree here. Most of the talent left before the acquisition, or long after it, around the time the Stamper's left.

Was that in response to the PD Core vid? Happy Chris is still there. Man is a genius.

Chris Seavor left recently.

 

[Tomasooie]

I don't agree here. Most of the talent left before the acquisition, or long after it, around the time the Stamper's left.

I'm not saying all of the talent left, as is often mistakenly stated. But okay, I'll put it this way -- it's a well-known fact that a lot of employees bailed when Microsoft bought the company. Maybe most of them weren't part of the big talent at Rare, but then again, I'm sure there were a lot of talented people at Rare who aren't widely known, even among fans of Rare. Most seem to only know/follow the musicians and a few designers.