Team Alucard
Banned
White middle-class suburbia is the GOP's bread and butter, and they're the ones most responsible for carrying Trump to victory.
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The Revenge of the Lower Classes and the rise of American Fascism
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tearsintherain
Member
Unions tend to act as a drag on efficiency, productivity, and personal growth. Fred, the guy who as been at the company for 15 years, will always get the promotions, educational opportunities, newest technology, etc over the new guys who may want to work harder but it would be pointless because there is a preset "line" for everything.
Sure, for industries that don't require any innovation or face little globalization unions will be fantastic but for all the high tech fields and ones in which companies around the world are racing to be first to market, the ability for any worker to quickly advance on their own merits is a powerful disincentive on unions.
Unions also tend quickly towards bureaucracy, corruption, and value loyalty (to the union) over all else, not necessarily good traits in a globalized economy.
Look at police unions for example: they wield a disproportionate amount of power over what unions really should. They can shield bad officers from getting fired or even disciplined, they can close ranks and act as a drag on innovations like body cams or citizen review boards, and they fight tooth and nail against improving hiring and training practices. At the other end of course you have companies like Walmart which would rather shut down a store than allow employees there to unionize. I don't know what the answer is, but unions by themselves can many times create more problems than solve.
Didn't they also carry Obama to victory?
The flood of articles from "progressives" shitting on the DNC for talking to minorities instead of the "Working Class"
BackLogJoe
Member
These beliefs are the reason why unions are going away.
The only point I agree with is the problem with the police union. But let's not kid ourselves, the police union isnt set up to protect its members against unfair wages, layoffs and vindictive management, it's a racist organization that needs reformed.
Team Alucard
Banned
No, compared to 2012 white people in 2016 voted along nearly identical lines (60%R/39%D vs. 59%R/37%D). The minor drop in support for Trump and Hillary is due to Johnson and Stein dramatically increasing their vote share.
Glendemonium
Member
Neoliberalism does nothing for the country when it's run by ruling class Corporatism and political puppets.
Shipping jobs overseas, abusing H1Bs in the tech sector, shutting down rust belt factories, floundering healthcare program Obama created that was never intended to be free, housing crash, TPP, Flint water crisis that should of been resolved under Obama, wars for oil, rouge corporations creating artificial inflation and demand while gouging the middle class as the useful idiots they were. There's so much more I'm probably not aware of, but the result is the same.
People just finally had enough, which sadly also meant a certain population of assholes rode on the coattails and are getting all the attention and spotlight. And Trump was more than willing to oblige to embolden those people just to get elected... and it worked. Voter turn out was at a low, we had two equally crappy candidates. Hilary spent most of her campaign guilt tripping and shaming people for not being PC enough if they even considered Trump, she cared nothing for the middle class, or the people out of work, or couldn't afford health care, or BLM. She honestly thought she was going to win because Trump ran his campaign to cater to the deplorable, and the election was going to be handed to her on a silver platter. People were more than ready to vote for Bernie, but the DNC would not have any of it as Bernie goes against the elite Democrats bottom line. Didn't help that she had very strong ties to Wall Street and big banks, and that clusterfuck she caused in Libya.
Articles like this to claim that it's ALL about racism, fascism, bigotry, are missing the larger picture. (or maybe they don't know any better?) but it's defiantly a strong catalyst of a much bigger mess we let our previous leaders put us in. Now we have to deal with four years of a true annoying orange.
What I'm trying to say is that there were more than enough Trump voters that are taking a very serious gamble here, while throwing the disenfranchised under a proverbial bus.
Shipping jobs overseas, abusing H1Bs in the tech sector, shutting down rust belt factories, floundering healthcare program Obama created that was never intended to be free, housing crash, TPP, Flint water crisis that should of been resolved under Obama, wars for oil, rouge corporations creating artificial inflation and demand while gouging the middle class as the useful idiots they were. There's so much more I'm probably not aware of, but the result is the same.
People just finally had enough, which sadly also meant a certain population of assholes rode on the coattails and are getting all the attention and spotlight. And Trump was more than willing to oblige to embolden those people just to get elected... and it worked. Voter turn out was at a low, we had two equally crappy candidates. Hilary spent most of her campaign guilt tripping and shaming people for not being PC enough if they even considered Trump, she cared nothing for the middle class, or the people out of work, or couldn't afford health care, or BLM. She honestly thought she was going to win because Trump ran his campaign to cater to the deplorable, and the election was going to be handed to her on a silver platter. People were more than ready to vote for Bernie, but the DNC would not have any of it as Bernie goes against the elite Democrats bottom line. Didn't help that she had very strong ties to Wall Street and big banks, and that clusterfuck she caused in Libya.
Articles like this to claim that it's ALL about racism, fascism, bigotry, are missing the larger picture. (or maybe they don't know any better?) but it's defiantly a strong catalyst of a much bigger mess we let our previous leaders put us in. Now we have to deal with four years of a true annoying orange.
What I'm trying to say is that there were more than enough Trump voters that are taking a very serious gamble here, while throwing the disenfranchised under a proverbial bus.
Especially when they're not even living in this country.
When Trump's policies inevitably lower the quality of life for anyone not in the 1%, what is the next step this deluded rabble will take?
Become disillusioned with politics and give up? I can't see this happening when the stakes are so immediate and not abstract.
Switch parties? How can the democrats puncture the propaganda bubble that a typical Trumpite exists within? They'd need support on a state level, from within the US government itself or through mega information brokers like Google, Apple, or Facebook.
Elect a more extreme candidate? This is just kicking the can down the road, as this person's policies would continue the downward spiral.
Blame the rich a la The French Revolution? I don't see this happening because the wealthy control the propaganda machine.
Blame a scapegoat, be it an internal one (illegal immigrants, Muslims) or a foreign power (China, Mexico)? This seems the likeliest outcome and the one most consistent with historical precedent.
Become disillusioned with politics and give up? I can't see this happening when the stakes are so immediate and not abstract.
Switch parties? How can the democrats puncture the propaganda bubble that a typical Trumpite exists within? They'd need support on a state level, from within the US government itself or through mega information brokers like Google, Apple, or Facebook.
Elect a more extreme candidate? This is just kicking the can down the road, as this person's policies would continue the downward spiral.
Blame the rich a la The French Revolution? I don't see this happening because the wealthy control the propaganda machine.
Blame a scapegoat, be it an internal one (illegal immigrants, Muslims) or a foreign power (China, Mexico)? This seems the likeliest outcome and the one most consistent with historical precedent.
Silver Arrows
Banned
and call criticisms of people calling Michele Obama an ape 'black nationalist BS'
Aaronology
Member
So why didn't they?
Neoliberalism is trash. It weakens unions and weaken unions strengthens right wing populism.
More Chomsky cause I love some Chomsky.
Glendemonium
Member
He knew he wasn't going to get the nomination and eventually folded despite a strong campaign. DNC and the mainstream media pushed Hilary to the forefront.
tearsintherain
Member
National stats don't really tell much, there were 12.7m more eligible voters in 2016 than 2012 (6.7m of them came out to vote) and it doesn't really matter if 2m new white voters in california voted over 2012, california was always going democratic.
In the 4 states that ended up deciding the election, every single one of them had far, far fewer core democratic voters turn out in 2016 than 2012. Trump got 10k more voters in MI than 2012 Romney, but Hillary LOST 300k voters over 2012. Trump got no new voters in WI than 2012 Romney, but Hillary LOST 230k voters.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/omriben...rump-won-because-of-lower-democratic-turnout/
forbes said:
While 2m fewer black voters came out to vote for Hillary in 2016 than Obama in 2012, it isn't as important as the fewer democratic registered voters in those 4 states since the 2m "lost black votes" were nationwide, and votes in CA, Chicago and NYC really were never going to be that important.
Well you know what they say about revenge, if you ever set out to take it dig one grave and then build a throne for the other guy to sit on and laugh as you're lowered into it.
Frozenprince
Banned
I don't know if you know this.
But white people aren't the only ones who are lower class.
Gasp.
But white people aren't the only ones who are lower class.
Gasp.
Aaronology
Member
You didn't answer the question. If "people were more than ready" to vote for Bernie Sanders, why did he receive millions less votes than his opponent?
But lower class white people are fucking it up for everyone
Yep. They've been propaganda'd against for a century. Despite being part of what is essentially now the Golden Age of the American worker, they get the blame for dragging down the economy despite the wealth gap increasing exponentially among owners and investors.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Oh my god, this lie again. How quickly we forget about 2008...
This is just as bad as Trump's revisionist history. He didn't "fold", he went out dragging as many people and institutions down with him as he could.
Frozenprince
Banned
Like fucks sake, not one but if this is new or surprising to those of us that have live under what vindictive white people do our whole lives.
White people coming out to fuck is up isn't some aha moment like y'all keep trying to show with all these articles and opinion pieces.
That's our lives.
White people coming out to fuck is up isn't some aha moment like y'all keep trying to show with all these articles and opinion pieces.
That's our lives.
And Slayven, trying to appeal to white voters doesn't mean to stop appealing to minorities just like running a 50 state strategy doesn't mean to stop campaigning in Blue states. I think our discrepancies occur in regard how much white supremacy is an inherent trait of white voters. The economic element that has been widely touted is a way to circumvent the language and tactics employed by the GOP. I believe the sentiment of "minorities are getting my benefits" is a result of their economic well being and not a natural state of things.
Addressing the needs of poor white working class is compatible with the continued addressing racial injustices.
It's a result of the two party system in America. It's the same as the under 50k explanation. Democrats have built a very strong network of support to black communities which is why they support them almost unanimously. People of color still see an ally on public programs despite the continued erosion under police brutality. American fascism as the column puts it, is also intrinsical to historic "American values" in which segregation is put at the forefront of the animosity. On the other hand, white people voting Trump regardless of income is tied to the historical republican ticket support, I don't have the numbers but there was a clear sentiment of rejection to Trump by traditional republican voters, which ultimately may have ended up voting for him after he assumed the nomination due to party affiliation. The rise of a completely new type of political discourse is associated with this new political contingent, that legitimized the platform and ultimately took control of the party. During the primary, there was a rift in republican voters where Cruz despite being an extreme right winger didn't operate under a fascist platform.
Addressing the needs of poor white working class is compatible with the continued addressing racial injustices.
It's a result of the two party system in America. It's the same as the under 50k explanation. Democrats have built a very strong network of support to black communities which is why they support them almost unanimously. People of color still see an ally on public programs despite the continued erosion under police brutality. American fascism as the column puts it, is also intrinsical to historic "American values" in which segregation is put at the forefront of the animosity. On the other hand, white people voting Trump regardless of income is tied to the historical republican ticket support, I don't have the numbers but there was a clear sentiment of rejection to Trump by traditional republican voters, which ultimately may have ended up voting for him after he assumed the nomination due to party affiliation. The rise of a completely new type of political discourse is associated with this new political contingent, that legitimized the platform and ultimately took control of the party. During the primary, there was a rift in republican voters where Cruz despite being an extreme right winger didn't operate under a fascist platform.
If you just want to take a shit , go do so somewhere else.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Neoliberalism is an economic school, derived from traditional economic liberalism.
It's important to realize that economic liberalism would be regarded as conservatism in the political spectrum, as it is a "laissez-faire" economic school. Neoliberalism expands this philosophy to include free trade, globalization, free flow of capital, etc.
Modern neoliberalism is basically an economic utopian philosophy but the reality has been an unprecedented concentration of wealth and power in a few elites and uncontrolled transfer of wealth from the lower classes to the upper classes. It has resulted in the destruction of the middle classes in developed nations and enslaved a generation of the lower classes in eternal debt and wage slavery.
The failure of neoliberalism as an economic school of thought is still being ignored by economists who are still living in bubbles where free trade is believed to be some political and social good. And it is leading the world to the brink of economic and social collapse.
Raven117
Member
IrishNinja
Member
Uhm no? It's against the remark that progressives won't suffer in a Trump administration. I addressed it earlier and if you still have problems with it either shoot me a pm or report me to a mod. But you're being purposely disingenuous now by implying I support any kind of racism, especially overt and aggressive dehumanization.
I'm dissapointed with you.
Especially due to the similarities raised here
methane47
Member
How in the world were minorities being treated better?
Captin Quacker
Member
They weren't, but the GOP/right wing told them they were so it must be true
capitalCORN
Member
For these people, minorities are riding first class. What they want is the same thing, except eject the minorities for spite's sake.
Darth Ghandi
Banned
The idea that the restitution of the middle class and identity politics are at odds with each other is silly.
The one can not exist with out the other.
The one can not exist with out the other.
rokkerkory
Member
That's great and all but putting billionaires in the white house will help them I am sure.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Lord Frieza
Member
Yeah, I agree. Article focuses way too much on that, and to be frank, I don't think it's nearly as contributing a factor as the article paints. And, you know, if it is, then I guess the whole system just needs to burn, because trying to educate people and stigmatize hate groups like the KKK as a bad thing just means there's probably nothing worth saving to begin with.
Well, actually, our history shows this is the most likely outcome. Politics in America tends to swing from one opposite to another going back to at least Johnson, and probably other examples if you go further. But I agree, the bubble of propaganda surrounding the right makes this uncertain. Even if they do all want to turn, the GOP is slowly, but surely, changing the rules to where they can't really lose anyway, so even if the people want to switch they may not really be able to.
Lord Frieza
Member
I mean, overall, they are being treated better than they were in, say, the '50s. Far more representation in business and culture, far more stigmatization of abuse against them, and more overall attention put on their plight.
Not to say things are good, by any means, but better than absolute shit...you know, kind of? I think what the article is getting at without outright saying it is that people want a return to a time when minorities where pretty much literally second class citizens, and there was no real shame in that for whites.
Slackbladder
Member
Better is probably too strong a word. It was certainly the perception of the white working class that minorities were getting a lot of media attention and help from the government such as same sex marriage for example. Or would you suggest there has been no progress in the last 8 years in the US for minorities at all? Regardless it was their perception that minorities were getting on but they were being left behind, ignored, forgotten. But the working class have always been ignored and forgotten.
To me as a white working class Brit I see in a lot of working class around me a weird kind of fear of irrelevance. A fear of loosing their culture. They need to put others down so that they feel superior. So what happens when they see the "others" doing well? Or that they are no longer "allowed" to put them down because of political correctness? They revert to nationalism in whatever form it takes.
I'm just not very sympathetic when they choose demagoguery and far right bigotry as their call to arms.
For too many people, it is an aha moment. They don't have the same experiences.
Lord Frieza
Member
Did you ever see a unfiltered, unedited Trump rally? Have you seen the rise of hate crimes since Trump was elected? Have you seen how much bolder hate groups have becoming in coming out and proud since Trump was elected? Did you know that his chief advisor is a Neo-Nazi? Did you know his pick for Attorney General is a very well known racist? The author may be mischaracterizing that trait to white working class in general, but trust me, it very much is an apt description of what a lot of people want.
IrishNinja
Member
speaking of disappointments, why not return to that thread & back up your words there - your last drive-by post was a defense of overt racism, and demonized "black nationals" . you'll forgive people if that taints efforts like this thread, since your lack of reply speaks volumes & taints whatever you're going for here.
*edit nevermind, saw you finally went back & just doubled-down against blacks & injustice, almost wished you'd have left it alone now.
It is exactly how I see it happening over here in the Netherlands as well.
They all see minorities and refugees getting attention and help, and they feel like they are being ignored and the others getting unfair help, and they
respond by voting for the rightwing populist that spouts bigotry.
And_Gignac
Member
Is a really easy concept to grasp. Adam Smith applied to the XX century. basically economic imperialism.
Funnily, I only see it questioned by some rabid Clinton supporters (in this forum).
Have you even paid attention to Trump's fanbase?
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
The far-left barely exists in the US. Dems are center, center-left. If I can assign fault is with the Dems try to hold on to the center.
Captin Quacker
Member
Sounds like the GOP to me
Sure, if you haven't turned on a TV, used the internet or opened a paper in the last 8 months... but you have the ability to do at least one of those considering you are on GAF so I chalk it up to the "bubble" previously mentioned.
ShironRedshift
Member
Really? Then what is the emphasis on being "anti-PC" and "telling it like it is" really about then? What do they want so badly to be able to say, that they don't feel they're allowed to say now?
Denying the racism that's at the heart of this is what's going to cause things to go nowhere. White America would rather cut off their own arms than be compelled into sharing anything with anyone who's a bit too melanin-enhanced. That's why the voting habits between individuals who otherwise are exactly alike aside from the color of their skin are so radically different. Until the left not only acknowledges this fact head-on, but finds some way of doing the impossible and tacking the problems of racism, xenophobia, and all other manner of bigotry far-left and socialist policies have absolutely no chance in America because white America just won't have it, and they prove that election after election after election as being the lifeblood of the GOP.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
So wait, was the Soviet Union neoliberal for doing coups to install communist leaders?
"It's a really easy concept to grasp" when I have literally never heard this definition of neoliberalism and have heard five others is, uhhhhhhh.
mugurumakensei
Member
It's not that the issue of race isn't seen. It's more about the fact that people will always put themselves above everyone else. No one is entirely selfless. In fact, most are outright selfish. Therefore, to fire up every demographic, it's best to focus messaging on cross-cutting concerns like health care, the economy, and taxes while leaving everything else to 'the platform's and actual actions. I'd like a world where politicians could center their messaging on gender, sexual, and racial issues. However, that really isn't now. With the election of Trump, it's probably pushed back at least another decade or two.
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