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The Revenge of the Lower Classes and the rise of American Fascism

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If anything the US needed to unionize and push back agains laws that eroded unions a long time ago. Countries that are more unionized although still having economic troubles see their work forces fair better with better safety nets and more jobs kept due to unions.

Unions tend to act as a drag on efficiency, productivity, and personal growth. Fred, the guy who as been at the company for 15 years, will always get the promotions, educational opportunities, newest technology, etc over the new guys who may want to work harder but it would be pointless because there is a preset "line" for everything.

Sure, for industries that don't require any innovation or face little globalization unions will be fantastic but for all the high tech fields and ones in which companies around the world are racing to be first to market, the ability for any worker to quickly advance on their own merits is a powerful disincentive on unions.

Unions also tend quickly towards bureaucracy, corruption, and value loyalty (to the union) over all else, not necessarily good traits in a globalized economy.

Look at police unions for example: they wield a disproportionate amount of power over what unions really should. They can shield bad officers from getting fired or even disciplined, they can close ranks and act as a drag on innovations like body cams or citizen review boards, and they fight tooth and nail against improving hiring and training practices. At the other end of course you have companies like Walmart which would rather shut down a store than allow employees there to unionize. I don't know what the answer is, but unions by themselves can many times create more problems than solve.

White middle-class suburbia is the GOP's bread and butter, and they're the ones most responsible for carrying Trump to victory.

Didn't they also carry Obama to victory?
 

Slayven

Member
Wait, what?

I'm not challenging. Just asking if there are reports that minorities have been "erased" (your word) since th election of trump who hasn't taken office yet.

Not saying you are wrong. Just curious.

The flood of articles from "progressives" shitting on the DNC for talking to minorities instead of the "Working Class"
 
Unions tend to act as a drag on efficiency, productivity, and personal growth. Fred, the guy who as been at the company for 15 years, will always get the promotions, educational opportunities, newest technology, etc over the new guys who may want to work harder but it would be pointless because there is a preset "line" for everything.

Sure, for industries that don't require any innovation or face little globalization unions will be fantastic but for all the high tech fields and ones in which companies around the world are racing to be first to market, the ability for any worker to quickly advance on their own merits is a powerful disincentive on unions.

Unions also tend quickly towards bureaucracy, corruption, and value loyalty (to the union) over all else, not necessarily good traits in a globalized economy.

Look at police unions for example: they wield a disproportionate amount of power over what unions really should. They can shield bad officers from getting fired or even disciplined, they can close ranks and act as a drag on innovations like body cams or citizen complaints, and they fight tooth and nail against improving hiring and training practices. At the other end of course you have companies like Walmart which would rather shut down a store than allow employees there to unionize. I don't know what the answer is, but unions by themselves can many times create more problems than solve.



Didn't they also carry Obama to victory?

These beliefs are the reason why unions are going away.

The only point I agree with is the problem with the police union. But let's not kid ourselves, the police union isnt set up to protect its members against unfair wages, layoffs and vindictive management, it's a racist organization that needs reformed.
 
Neoliberalism does nothing for the country when it's run by ruling class Corporatism and political puppets.

Shipping jobs overseas, abusing H1Bs in the tech sector, shutting down rust belt factories, floundering healthcare program Obama created that was never intended to be free, housing crash, TPP, Flint water crisis that should of been resolved under Obama, wars for oil, rouge corporations creating artificial inflation and demand while gouging the middle class as the useful idiots they were. There's so much more I'm probably not aware of, but the result is the same.

People just finally had enough, which sadly also meant a certain population of assholes rode on the coattails and are getting all the attention and spotlight. And Trump was more than willing to oblige to embolden those people just to get elected... and it worked. Voter turn out was at a low, we had two equally crappy candidates. Hilary spent most of her campaign guilt tripping and shaming people for not being PC enough if they even considered Trump, she cared nothing for the middle class, or the people out of work, or couldn't afford health care, or BLM. She honestly thought she was going to win because Trump ran his campaign to cater to the deplorable, and the election was going to be handed to her on a silver platter. People were more than ready to vote for Bernie, but the DNC would not have any of it as Bernie goes against the elite Democrats bottom line. Didn't help that she had very strong ties to Wall Street and big banks, and that clusterfuck she caused in Libya.

Articles like this to claim that it's ALL about racism, fascism, bigotry, are missing the larger picture. (or maybe they don't know any better?) but it's defiantly a strong catalyst of a much bigger mess we let our previous leaders put us in. Now we have to deal with four years of a true annoying orange.

What I'm trying to say is that there were more than enough Trump voters that are taking a very serious gamble here, while throwing the disenfranchised under a proverbial bus.
 

npm0925

Member
When Trump's policies inevitably lower the quality of life for anyone not in the 1%, what is the next step this deluded rabble will take?

Become disillusioned with politics and give up? I can't see this happening when the stakes are so immediate and not abstract.

Switch parties? How can the democrats puncture the propaganda bubble that a typical Trumpite exists within? They'd need support on a state level, from within the US government itself or through mega information brokers like Google, Apple, or Facebook.

Elect a more extreme candidate? This is just kicking the can down the road, as this person's policies would continue the downward spiral.

Blame the rich a la The French Revolution? I don't see this happening because the wealthy control the propaganda machine.

Blame a scapegoat, be it an internal one (illegal immigrants, Muslims) or a foreign power (China, Mexico)? This seems the likeliest outcome and the one most consistent with historical precedent.
 

fantomena

Member
Inaccurate title ✔
Use of neoliberal ✔

Must be a Boney thread.

Hardcore Sanders supporters really have difficulty seeing the issues of race in this country.

Neoliberalism is trash. It weakens unions and weaken unions strengthens right wing populism.

noam-chomsky-427915.jpg


More Chomsky cause I love some Chomsky.

quote-globalization-is-the-result-of-powerful-governments-especially-that-of-the-united-states-noam-chomsky-68-85-16.jpg


e4c4591a630af5ed0d696d8eadbca106.jpg
 
No, compared to 2012 white people in 2016 voted along nearly identical lines (60%R/39%D vs. 59%R/37%D). The minor drop in support for Trump and Hillary is due to Johnson and Stein dramatically increasing their vote share.

National stats don't really tell much, there were 12.7m more eligible voters in 2016 than 2012 (6.7m of them came out to vote) and it doesn't really matter if 2m new white voters in california voted over 2012, california was always going democratic.

In the 4 states that ended up deciding the election, every single one of them had far, far fewer core democratic voters turn out in 2016 than 2012. Trump got 10k more voters in MI than 2012 Romney, but Hillary LOST 300k voters over 2012. Trump got no new voters in WI than 2012 Romney, but Hillary LOST 230k voters.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/omriben...rump-won-because-of-lower-democratic-turnout/
forbes said:
They simply stayed at home. If even a fraction of these lethargic Democrats had turned out to vote, Michigan would have stayed blue.

Wisconsin tells the same numbers story, even more dramatically. Trump got no new votes. He received exactly the same number of votes in America’s Dairyland as Romney did in 2012. Both received 1,409,000 votes. But Clinton again could not spark many Obama voters to turn out for her: she tallied 230,000 votes less than Obama did in 2012. This is how a 200,000-vote victory margin for Obama in the Badger State became a 30,000-vote defeat for Clinton.

While 2m fewer black voters came out to vote for Hillary in 2016 than Obama in 2012, it isn't as important as the fewer democratic registered voters in those 4 states since the 2m "lost black votes" were nationwide, and votes in CA, Chicago and NYC really were never going to be that important.
 

Plum

Member
Its perfectly fitting that the "lower classes" revenge is putting EVEN more super wealthy people in government to fuck them over.

Keep voting against your interests Americans.

Well you know what they say about revenge, if you ever set out to take it dig one grave and then build a throne for the other guy to sit on and laugh as you're lowered into it.
 
He knew he wasn't going to get the nomination and eventually folded despite a strong campaign. DNC and the mainstream media pushed Hilary to the forefront.
You didn't answer the question. If "people were more than ready" to vote for Bernie Sanders, why did he receive millions less votes than his opponent?
 

WedgeX

Banned
These beliefs are the reason why unions are going away.

The only point I agree with is the problem with the police union. But let's not kid ourselves, the police union isnt set up to protect its members against unfair wages, layoffs and vindictive management, it's a racist organization that needs reformed.

Yep. They've been propaganda'd against for a century. Despite being part of what is essentially now the Golden Age of the American worker, they get the blame for dragging down the economy despite the wealth gap increasing exponentially among owners and investors.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
He knew he wasn't going to get the nomination and eventually folded despite a strong campaign. DNC and the mainstream media pushed Hilary to the forefront.

Oh my god, this lie again. How quickly we forget about 2008...
 

kirblar

Member
He knew he wasn't going to get the nomination and eventually folded despite a strong campaign. DNC and the mainstream media pushed Hilary to the forefront.
This is just as bad as Trump's revisionist history. He didn't "fold", he went out dragging as many people and institutions down with him as he could.
 
Like fucks sake, not one but if this is new or surprising to those of us that have live under what vindictive white people do our whole lives.

White people coming out to fuck is up isn't some aha moment like y'all keep trying to show with all these articles and opinion pieces.

That's our lives.
 

Boney

Banned
And Slayven, trying to appeal to white voters doesn't mean to stop appealing to minorities just like running a 50 state strategy doesn't mean to stop campaigning in Blue states. I think our discrepancies occur in regard how much white supremacy is an inherent trait of white voters. The economic element that has been widely touted is a way to circumvent the language and tactics employed by the GOP. I believe the sentiment of "minorities are getting my benefits" is a result of their economic well being and not a natural state of things.

Addressing the needs of poor white working class is compatible with the continued addressing racial injustices.

If the votes are a consequence of the current class mobility system, why did people of color in the working class not vote for fascism? And why did white people of every income level vote for it?



Not literally erased, if that's what you're thinking. But since the election people (like the title of this article) have talked about the lower class and the working class to mean the white working class, completely ignoring people of color who are also in the working class but did not support fascism.

It's a result of the two party system in America. It's the same as the under 50k explanation. Democrats have built a very strong network of support to black communities which is why they support them almost unanimously. People of color still see an ally on public programs despite the continued erosion under police brutality. American fascism as the column puts it, is also intrinsical to historic "American values" in which segregation is put at the forefront of the animosity. On the other hand, white people voting Trump regardless of income is tied to the historical republican ticket support, I don't have the numbers but there was a clear sentiment of rejection to Trump by traditional republican voters, which ultimately may have ended up voting for him after he assumed the nomination due to party affiliation. The rise of a completely new type of political discourse is associated with this new political contingent, that legitimized the platform and ultimately took control of the party. During the primary, there was a rift in republican voters where Cruz despite being an extreme right winger didn't operate under a fascist platform.

Inaccurate title ✔
Use of neoliberal ✔

Must be a Boney thread.

Hardcore Sanders supporters really have difficulty seeing the issues of race in this country.
If you just want to take a shit , go do so somewhere else.
 
Can someone actually explain to me what "neoliberal" means nowadays? I hear conflicting, unclear definitions, but I'm seeing it increasingly pop up post election

Neoliberalism is an economic school, derived from traditional economic liberalism.

It's important to realize that economic liberalism would be regarded as conservatism in the political spectrum, as it is a "laissez-faire" economic school. Neoliberalism expands this philosophy to include free trade, globalization, free flow of capital, etc.

Modern neoliberalism is basically an economic utopian philosophy but the reality has been an unprecedented concentration of wealth and power in a few elites and uncontrolled transfer of wealth from the lower classes to the upper classes. It has resulted in the destruction of the middle classes in developed nations and enslaved a generation of the lower classes in eternal debt and wage slavery.

The failure of neoliberalism as an economic school of thought is still being ignored by economists who are still living in bubbles where free trade is believed to be some political and social good. And it is leading the world to the brink of economic and social collapse.
 

Boney

Banned
and call criticisms of people calling Michele Obama an ape 'black nationalist BS'
Uhm no? It's against the remark that progressives won't suffer in a Trump administration. I addressed it earlier and if you still have problems with it either shoot me a pm or report me to a mod. But you're being purposely disingenuous now by implying I support any kind of racism, especially overt and aggressive dehumanization.

well that about wraps things up
I'm dissapointed with you.
Especially due to the similarities raised here

They want the freedom to ridicule and dismiss intellectuals, ideas, science and culture
 

methane47

Member
There is a pecking order in society and the white working class had only the minorities to peck. Now, apparently they can't do that. So they revolted. And in doing so embraced neo-facism.
They saw minorities getting help, being treated a little better. And they asked "Where is OUR help?" There was none because there never is for the working class. Money stays with those with money.
So yeah, in the end they believed they had no one to peck on. Boo-fucking-hoo.

How in the world were minorities being treated better?
 
The idea that the restitution of the middle class and identity politics are at odds with each other is silly.
The one can not exist with out the other.
 
Most of what is written there is spot on. That's not Clinton's fault though.

I take huge issue with the blaming of college educated individuals however. Those who actually have an education that enabled them to critically think about the way things are going are 100% in concert at reviling at where we are headed.

Keep in mind I said "enabled them to critically think". Not all college educated individuals acquired that skill, believe me.

Yeah, I agree. Article focuses way too much on that, and to be frank, I don't think it's nearly as contributing a factor as the article paints. And, you know, if it is, then I guess the whole system just needs to burn, because trying to educate people and stigmatize hate groups like the KKK as a bad thing just means there's probably nothing worth saving to begin with.

When Trump's policies inevitably lower the quality of life for anyone not in the 1%, what is the next step this deluded rabble will take?

Become disillusioned with politics and give up? I can't see this happening when the stakes are so immediate and not abstract.

Switch parties? How can the democrats puncture the propaganda bubble that a typical Trumpite exists within? They'd need support on a state level, from within the US government itself or through mega information brokers like Google, Apple, or Facebook.

Elect a more extreme candidate? This is just kicking the can down the road, as this person's policies would continue the downward spiral.

Blame the rich a la The French Revolution? I don't see this happening because the wealthy control the propaganda machine.

Blame a scapegoat, be it an internal one (illegal immigrants, Muslims) or a foreign power (China, Mexico)? This seems the likeliest outcome and the one most consistent with historical precedent.

Well, actually, our history shows this is the most likely outcome. Politics in America tends to swing from one opposite to another going back to at least Johnson, and probably other examples if you go further. But I agree, the bubble of propaganda surrounding the right makes this uncertain. Even if they do all want to turn, the GOP is slowly, but surely, changing the rules to where they can't really lose anyway, so even if the people want to switch they may not really be able to.
 
How in the world were minorities being treated better?

I mean, overall, they are being treated better than they were in, say, the '50s. Far more representation in business and culture, far more stigmatization of abuse against them, and more overall attention put on their plight.

Not to say things are good, by any means, but better than absolute shit...you know, kind of? I think what the article is getting at without outright saying it is that people want a return to a time when minorities where pretty much literally second class citizens, and there was no real shame in that for whites.
 
How in the world were minorities being treated better?
Better is probably too strong a word. It was certainly the perception of the white working class that minorities were getting a lot of media attention and help from the government such as same sex marriage for example. Or would you suggest there has been no progress in the last 8 years in the US for minorities at all? Regardless it was their perception that minorities were getting on but they were being left behind, ignored, forgotten. But the working class have always been ignored and forgotten.

To me as a white working class Brit I see in a lot of working class around me a weird kind of fear of irrelevance. A fear of loosing their culture. They need to put others down so that they feel superior. So what happens when they see the "others" doing well? Or that they are no longer "allowed" to put them down because of political correctness? They revert to nationalism in whatever form it takes.
I'm just not very sympathetic when they choose demagoguery and far right bigotry as their call to arms.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Like fucks sake, not one but if this is new or surprising to those of us that have live under what vindictive white people do our whole lives.

White people coming out to fuck is up isn't some aha moment like y'all keep trying to show with all these articles and opinion pieces.

That's our lives.

For too many people, it is an aha moment. They don't have the same experiences.
 

getbuff

Neo Member
These Americans want a kind of freedom—a freedom to hate. They want the freedom to use words like “nigger,” “kike,” “spic,” “chink,” “raghead” and “fag.” They want the freedom to idealize violence and the gun culture. They want the freedom to have enemies, to physically assault Muslims, undocumented workers, African-Americans, homosexuals and anyone who dares criticize their cryptofascism.

Literally no one wants any of those things except in the paranoid fantasies of the author of this article. Childish, one-dimensional comic book villain mischaracterizations like this are the reason the far left are alienating people on the centre and right in droves.
 
Literally no one wants any of those things except in the paranoid fantasies of the author of this article. Childish, one-dimensional comic book villain mischaracterizations like this are the reason the far left are alienating people on the centre and right in droves.

Did you ever see a unfiltered, unedited Trump rally? Have you seen the rise of hate crimes since Trump was elected? Have you seen how much bolder hate groups have becoming in coming out and proud since Trump was elected? Did you know that his chief advisor is a Neo-Nazi? Did you know his pick for Attorney General is a very well known racist? The author may be mischaracterizing that trait to white working class in general, but trust me, it very much is an apt description of what a lot of people want.
 

IrishNinja

Member
Uhm no? It's against the remark that progressives won't suffer in a Trump administration. I addressed it earlier and if you still have problems with it either shoot me a pm or report me to a mod. But you're being purposely disingenuous now by implying I support any kind of racism, especially overt and aggressive dehumanization.

speaking of disappointments, why not return to that thread & back up your words there - your last drive-by post was a defense of overt racism, and demonized "black nationals" . you'll forgive people if that taints efforts like this thread, since your lack of reply speaks volumes & taints whatever you're going for here.

*edit nevermind, saw you finally went back & just doubled-down against blacks & injustice, almost wished you'd have left it alone now.
 

-MB-

Member
Better is probably too strong a word. It was certainly the perception of the white working class that minorities were getting a lot of media attention and help from the government such as same sex marriage for example. Or would you suggest there has been no progress in the last 8 years in the US for minorities at all? Regardless it was their perception that minorities were getting on but they were being left behind, ignored, forgotten. But the working class have always been ignored and forgotten.

To me as a white working class Brit I see in a lot of working class around me a weird kind of fear of irrelevance. A fear of loosing their culture. They need to put others down so that they feel superior. So what happens when they see the "others" doing well? Or that they are no longer "allowed" to put them down because of political correctness? They revert to nationalism in whatever form it takes.
I'm just not very sympathetic when they choose demagoguery and far right bigotry as their call to arms.

It is exactly how I see it happening over here in the Netherlands as well.
They all see minorities and refugees getting attention and help, and they feel like they are being ignored and the others getting unfair help, and they
respond by voting for the rightwing populist that spouts bigotry.
 
Can someone actually explain to me what "neoliberal" means nowadays? I hear conflicting, unclear definitions, but I'm seeing it increasingly pop up post election

Is a really easy concept to grasp. Adam Smith applied to the XX century. basically economic imperialism.

Funnily, I only see it questioned by some rabid Clinton supporters (in this forum).
 

sphagnum

Banned
Literally no one wants any of those things except in the paranoid fantasies of the author of this article. Childish, one-dimensional comic book villain mischaracterizations like this are the reason the far left are alienating people on the centre and right in droves.

Have you even paid attention to Trump's fanbase?
 

A Fish Aficionado

I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Literally no one wants any of those things except in the paranoid fantasies of the author of this article. Childish, one-dimensional comic book villain mischaracterizations like this are the reason the far left are alienating people on the centre and right in droves.
The far-left barely exists in the US. Dems are center, center-left. If I can assign fault is with the Dems try to hold on to the center.
 
Literally no one wants any of those things except in the paranoid fantasies of the author of this article. Childish, one-dimensional comic book villain mischaracterizations like this are the reason the far left are alienating people on the centre and right in droves.
Sounds like the GOP to me
 

gcubed

Member
Literally no one wants any of those things except in the paranoid fantasies of the author of this article. Childish, one-dimensional comic book villain mischaracterizations like this are the reason the far left are alienating people on the centre and right in droves.

Sure, if you haven't turned on a TV, used the internet or opened a paper in the last 8 months... but you have the ability to do at least one of those considering you are on GAF so I chalk it up to the "bubble" previously mentioned.
 
Literally no one wants any of those things except in the paranoid fantasies of the author of this article. Childish, one-dimensional comic book villain mischaracterizations like this are the reason the far left are alienating people on the centre and right in droves.
Really? Then what is the emphasis on being "anti-PC" and "telling it like it is" really about then? What do they want so badly to be able to say, that they don't feel they're allowed to say now?

Denying the racism that's at the heart of this is what's going to cause things to go nowhere. White America would rather cut off their own arms than be compelled into sharing anything with anyone who's a bit too melanin-enhanced. That's why the voting habits between individuals who otherwise are exactly alike aside from the color of their skin are so radically different. Until the left not only acknowledges this fact head-on, but finds some way of doing the impossible and tacking the problems of racism, xenophobia, and all other manner of bigotry far-left and socialist policies have absolutely no chance in America because white America just won't have it, and they prove that election after election after election as being the lifeblood of the GOP.
 
Is a really easy concept to grasp. Adam Smith applied to the XX century. basically economic imperialism.

Funnily, I only see it questioned by some rabid Clinton supporters (in this forum).

So wait, was the Soviet Union neoliberal for doing coups to install communist leaders?

"It's a really easy concept to grasp" when I have literally never heard this definition of neoliberalism and have heard five others is, uhhhhhhh.
 
Inaccurate title ✔
Use of neoliberal ✔

Must be a Boney thread.

Hardcore Sanders supporters really have difficulty seeing the issues of race in this country.

It's not that the issue of race isn't seen. It's more about the fact that people will always put themselves above everyone else. No one is entirely selfless. In fact, most are outright selfish. Therefore, to fire up every demographic, it's best to focus messaging on cross-cutting concerns like health care, the economy, and taxes while leaving everything else to 'the platform's and actual actions. I'd like a world where politicians could center their messaging on gender, sexual, and racial issues. However, that really isn't now. With the election of Trump, it's probably pushed back at least another decade or two.
 
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