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The Sad Tale of Michael Jackson: Why I Think He was Innocent

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ultim8p00

Banned
First off, I want to say that I really really believe MJ didn't do it. I really do. MJ was incredibly weird and sometimes batshit insane, but he was a nice guy and I don't think he would do something to harm kids.

But of course, that is just me, and we will never know 100%. Still, looking at the way things went down, and the way the Chandlers handled the supposed molestation of their son, I can't help but question their intentions, especially with regard to Jordan Chandler's father, Evan Chandler.

In 1992, then 13 year old Jordan Chandler and MJ became friends, much to Evan Chandler's disapproval. MJ and Jordan were so close that Evan became admittedly jealous, and relations between MJ and Evan soon deteriorated when Evan asked Michael "Are you trying to have sex with my son?" In 1993, Evan Chandler was caught on tape saying

"There was no reason why he [Jackson] had to stop calling me...I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find [Evan Chandler's lawyer, Barry Rothman], all he wants to do is get this out in the public as fast as he can, as big as he can and humiliate as many people as he can. He's nasty, he's mean, he's smart and he's hungry for publicity. Everything's going to a certain plan that isn't just mine. Once I make that phone call, this guy is going to destroy everybody in sight in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. I've given him full authority to do that. Jackson is an evil guy, he is worse than that and I have the evidence to prove it. If I go through with this, I win big-time. There's no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever...Michael's career will be over."

In the same conversation, when Evan was asked how he thinks this would affect Jordan, he said

"That's irrelevant to me...It will be a massacre if I don't get what I want. It's going to be bigger than all us put together...This man [Jackson] is going to be humiliated beyond belief...He will not sell one more record"

You can really see the evil intent this guy Evan Chandler had. He didn't even seem to care that much about his own child Jordan.

In August of 1993, Evan Chandler, being a dentist, extracted a tooth from his son's mouth. During the procedure, Jordan claimed that MJ had touched his penis. During the procedure, Jordan was under the influence of Amytal Na, a mind-altering sedative now discredited by modern medicine, that "coincidentally" makes people incredibly susceptible to suggestions.

Over the next couple of months, Evan Chandler tried to get an out of court settlement for 20 million. It is important to note that Evan went straight for a financial settlement first. He threatened to take things to court only if MJ refused to pay.

MJ himself refused to pay a dime, saying "No way in hell." This would be my initial reaction too if I was innocent.

A few weeks later, MJ's legal team, not MJ decided to give Chandler 1 million dollars. Chandler refused the money, then lowered his initial request to 15 million. Is this really a father who's child had just been molested? If I were in his shoes and MJ just molested my kid, I'd make sure MJ stayed in jail for the rest of his life. Anyways, MJ refused to pay the money again, and he even lowered the original offering from his legal team to a mere $350,000.

Seeing that MJ wasn't a bitch, Evan finally decided to take things to court. Evan then took Jordan to see a psychiatrist called Dr. Mathis Abrams, and during the three-hour session with the doctor, Jordan said he had had a sexual relationship with Jackson that included incidents of kissing, masturbation and oral sex that went on for months. He then repeated these allegations to police and gave a detailed description of what he alleged was MJ's penis.

On August 18th, the LAPD started an investigation of MJ. That very same day, Jordan's mother said she did not believe that Jordan had been molested by MJ.

The police questioned 30 children who were close to Jackson, and not one of them claimed to have been molested. The investigation did not produce any evidence, and neither did subsequent investigations.

An investigation into Evan Chandler did not produce much either, except for the fact that he was over $68,000 behind in child support despite the fact that he was a well-paid dentist.

La Toya Jackson, MJ's own sister, claimed that MJ was a pedophile, and that she had evidence that could prove it, but that she would only disclose said evidence for $500,000. His own sister man. His own fucking sister. How despicable. Of course she later retracted her claim when her entire family disowned her, and she blamed her husband for forcing her to tell the lie for financial gain. See a pattern here? Money, money, money, money.

You'd think Michael Jackson, the "heartless pedo" that he is would pretty much cut all ties to La Toya Jackson right?

WRONG. MICHAEL JACKSON FORGAVE LA TOYA. BECAUSE HE IS THAT FUCKING COOL. He really was a nice guy.
 

esbern

Junior Member
"My opinion on michael jackson is so important that I refuse to post it in the 3 other fucking threads about him"

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Keylime

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ultim8p00

Banned
Anyways, back to the molestation accusations. The scandal and media scrutiny took a huge toll on MJ and his health deteriorated significantly. He took pain pills and anti-depressants to deal with his situation, and he eventually got addicted to them. He stopped eating and lost a lot of weight. In December of 1993, the police wanted to verify Jordan's descriptions of MJ's penis.

The order stated that officers were to examine, photograph and videotape Jackson's entire body, "including his penis, anus, hips, buttocks and any other part of his body". Think about that for a minute. How humiliating an experience.


The search report concluded that there were some strong similarities between Jordan's description and Jackson's body, but there wasn't a match.



On December 22, MJ responding to the allegations by saying

"As you may already know, after my tour ended I remained out of the country [US] undergoing treatment for a dependency on pain medication...There have been many disgusting statements made recently concerning allegations of improper conduct on my part. These statements about me are totally false...I will say I am particularly upset by the handling of the mass matter by the incredible, terrible mass media. At every opportunity, the media has dissected and manipulated these allegations to reach their own conclusions. I ask all of you to wait and hear the truth before you label or condemn me. Don't treat me like a criminal, because I am innocent. I have been forced to submit to a dehumanizing and humiliating examination...It was the most humiliating ordeal of my life...But if this is what I have to endure to prove my innocence, my complete innocence, so be it."


The sensationalist Media did not help either; in fact, it made things worse. The media used sensational headlines to draw in readers and viewers when the content itself did not support the headline, accepted stories of Jackson's alleged criminal activity in return for money, accepted confidential leaked material from the police investigation in return for money paid, deliberately used pictures of Jackson's appearance at its worst, maintained a lack of objectivity, and used headlines that strongly implied Jackson's guilt.

Two tabloid television shows accepted confidential leaked documents from the Los Angeles County Department of Children's Services for $20,000. A number of Jackson's former employees—most of whom had worked at his ranch—sold stories to the tabloids of alleged prior sexual misconduct on Jackson's part, instead of reporting their claims to police. One couple initially asked for $100,000 claiming that Jackson sexually caressed Macaulay Culkin. They were prepared to expand upon this allegation for a fee of $500,000, whereby they would allege that Jackson put his hands down Culkin's pants. When the story broke, Culkin strongly denied the allegation, and did so again in court. A former security guard made various allegations about Jackson, saying he was fired because he "knew too much", and alleged that he was ordered by Jackson to destroy a photo of a naked boy. Instead of reporting this to police, Hard Copy accepted the story in return for $150,000. Afterwards, Jackson's maid, Branca Francia, alleged that she "quit in disgust" after seeing Jackson in a shower with a child, but did not inform the police. It later emerged that Francia was actually fired in 1991, but nevertheless sold her story to Hard Copy for $20,000.

This shit is just so depressing. I am seriously aching in the heart right now. Sure MJ was a weird guy, but did he deserve this? People just tore him up like vultures. Just for money.

When Jackson left the US to go into rehabilitation, the media showed the singer little sympathy. The Daily Mirror (UK) held a "Spot the Jacko" contest, offering readers a trip to Disney World if they could correctly predict where the entertainer would appear next. A Daily Express headline read, "Drug Treatment Star Faces Life on the Run", while a News of the World headline accused Jackson of being a fugitive. These tabloids also falsely alleged that Jackson had traveled to Europe to have cosmetic surgery that would make him unrecognizable on his return. Geraldo Rivera set up a mock trial, with a jury made up of audience members, even though Jackson had not been charged with a crime.

Finally, after months and months of torment, and irreparable damage to his career, MJ finally agreed to an out out court settlement of 22 million. When asked why he agreed to the settlement, MJ said "I wanted to go on with my life. Too many people had already been hurt. I want to make records. I want to sing. I want to perform again...It's my talent. My hard work. My life. My decision."

It is also important to note that the settlement was made my MJ's insurance company, and he did not have much control over the settlement.

That doesn't sound to me like he did something and was afraid. He clearly fought, and he clearly refused to pay. But the damage was just too much, and I would totally understand if someone just decided to throw money at the problem at this point.

Three years later, Evan Chandler sued Michael Jackson AGAIN...for 60 million dollars because MJ had breached a contract by talking about details of the last settlement. The court ruled in MJ's favor thankfully.

In 2003, Jackson was charged with seven counts of child sexual abuse and two counts of administering an intoxicating agent in order to commit a child sexual abuse felony against Gavin Arvizo, who was under 14 at the time. Earlier that year, a Granada Television documentary, called Living with Michael Jackson, showed the pop star holding hands and discussing sleeping arrangements with Arvizo. Jackson denied these allegations, saying that the sleepovers were in no way sexual in nature. Sneddon again led the effort to prosecute Jackson. These prosecutions led to complaints that Sneddon was motivated by a "vendetta" against Jackson. Evidence to support these claims include Sneddon joking about Jackson's greatest hits album being released on the same day as his arrest and saying, "Like the sheriff and I really are into that kind of music." He then preceded to call Jackson "Wacko Jacko" and shouting "We got him, we finally got him" to the media, when he had only just began an investigation and had gathered limited information or evidence.

The People v. Jackson trial began in Santa Maria, California, two years after Jackson was originally charged. During the trial the judge allowed the prosecution to bring in evidence needed to determine whether or not a defendant had a propensity to commit certain crimes. This meant that the prosecution were allowed to use any evidence they had against Jackson from the 1993 allegations to help secure a conviction. Although evidence from 1993 was used, Jordan Chandler did not appear in the Jackson trial. The trial lasted five months, until the end of May 2005, Jackson was found not guilty on all counts in June.

So, where are the Chandlers today? Well Jordan now owns a 2 million dollar house in Long Island, owns a condo in Santa Barbra, and a high-rise apartment in Manhattan.

Where is MJ today? Dead. The world is full of shit, and fuck any of you ignorant assholes that call him a pedophile.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lVUvOLdg50
 

SUPREME1

Banned
Edit: I just read all of that and I thank you for posting it.


I can honestly say that I thihk it just tipped my opinion on Jackson towards innocent after it being borderline....


Wow.


Great stuff.
 

ultim8p00

Banned
RubxQub said:
Gotta agree, dude.

I'd take this that-a-way.

No, I think this deserved it's own thread because those two threads had a different purpose, and also because I knew it would be VERY VERY LONG. The good or bad thread is especially full of people saying things that are flat out false.

teruterubozu said:
:lol All this work for an inevitable lock.

I don't really care if it's locked at this point to be honest. I got that off my chest and that is satisfaction enough. I totally agree that MJ had issues, but it's just terrible what they did to him.
 

AMUSIX

Member
Lock or not, this was a decent read, and a lot of little details that are often overlooked.

Sure, it should have gone into one of the other threads, but maybe a mod will see fit to merge it to one instead of just shutting it down...
 

Vinci

Danish
Was there always this MJ Defense Force running around, or has it only appeared following this death? 'Cause the latter would indicate something not altogether good about those people.

Just curious. Haven't kept track of the man or his fans for ... well ... a long time.
 

ultim8p00

Banned
Souldriver said:
My god, this thread fails so hard.



Just post it in the other thread, or do you feel your opinion is too important or what?

I thought about it, but I had too much to say. It was just too long. I suspected that this thread will get locked, so I'd just post a link to the OP and my second post in the good or bad thread in the event that that happens. Also wtf when did I say my opinion is too important? I have posted in the good or bad thread quite a few times already. Chill out.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
Vinci said:
Was there always this MJ Defense Force running around, or has it only appeared following this death? 'Cause the latter would indicate something not altogether good about those people.

Just curious. Haven't kept track of the man or his fans for ... well ... a long time.


the community has been pretty split about it over the years. Last big thread I recall was when an attorney of a former accuser wrote a tell all book about it being a false claim.
 

dude

dude
You'd think Michael Jackson, the "heartless pedo" that he is would pretty much cut all ties to La Toya Jackson right?

What does being attracted to children have to do with being or not being a nice guy for fuck's sake.

I still believe he has sexual attraction to children, there are too many indication to say otherwise, but I have no reason to believe he raped or molested a child. So yeah, I think he's innocent too.
 
I'm sorry, I love the guy's music and I'm very sad about his death but he was guilty, guilty, guilty. I very sincerely doubt that he ever thought he was doing something wrong or meant to cause harm, but you're kidding yourself if you think he didn't do it.
 
as for the recent trial... yes he was definitely innocent. 100% ... anybody who says otherwise clearly didn't follow the trial

dunno about that one in the early 90s though
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
Mercury Fred said:
I'm sorry, I love the guy's music and I'm very sad about his death but he was guilty, guilty, guilty. I very sincerely doubt that he ever thought he was doing something wrong or meant to cause harm, but you're kidding yourself if you think he didn't do it.


I used to think that, but the number of unethical actions of legal team members and claims made about accusers from them makes it harder to just assume he was guilty of anything.
 

ultim8p00

Banned
AMUSIX said:
Lock or not, this was a decent read, and a lot of little details that are often overlooked.

Sure, it should have gone into one of the other threads, but maybe a mod will see fit to merge it to one instead of just shutting it down...

Thanks. Maybe I could have gone about this a different way, but I had A LOT OF INFORMATION I wanted to talk about and I didn't feel like posting all this stuff in that thread was cool.

And honestly GAF, shut the fuck up, because I KNOW YOU. You would have said "tldr" or something like that if I posted all this stuff in the other thread, or said "wow thx" or something. I figured If I'm to get those kind of responses, better be in its own thread than in some other thread where it will be buried.
 

Ryck

Member
Maybe he did and maybe he didn't ... but did you notice any of the kids (that he hung out with) that already had money ( or were well off) didn't try to say he did anything to them? Nope it was only the families of the poor kids, who ended up rich in the end.

Like for example.. Macaulay Culkin, Feldman, Criss Cross..
 
Michael Jackson was just too weird to make any judgment one way or the other. He certainly had a lot of psychological problems and was in a compromising position, but the actual evidence against him is not particularly conclusive.
 
ultim8p00 said:
Thanks. Maybe I could have gone about this a different way, but I had A LOT OF INFORMATION I wanted to talk about and I didn't feel like posting all this stuff in that thread was cool.

And honestly GAF, shut the fuck up, because I KNOW YOU. You would have said "tldr" or something like that if I posted all this stuff in the other thread, or said "wow thx" or something. I figured If I'm to get those kind of responses, better be in its own thread than in some other thread where it will be buried.

Sorry man. While I share your sentiments, it doesn't look like you're winning in this thread.
 

ultim8p00

Banned
Mercury Fred said:
I'm sorry, I love the guy's music and I'm very sad about his death but he was guilty, guilty, guilty. I very sincerely doubt that he ever thought he was doing something wrong or meant to cause harm, but you're kidding yourself if you think he didn't do it.

Hey man, I actually do believe that me might have done something. I don't know what it is, and I know it probably wasn't kosher, as there is no smoke without fire. But I don't think he molested the kids and had sex with them. Like I said, this guy was very unstable due to the way he grew up, but he was a nice guy. He might have played with the kids in a way that was inappropriate for an adult to be playing with kids mainly because of his wish to relieve his childhood, but I don't think he had sex with them. And really it's pretty fucking disgusting the way the media tore him up and people tried to exploit him.

radiantdreamer said:
Sorry man. While I share your sentiments, it doesn't look like you're winning in this thread.

That's not the point. I didn't make this thread to win. I totally expected this reaction from GAF.
 
levious said:
I used to think that, but the number of unethical actions of legal team members and claims made about accusers from them makes it harder to just assume he was guilty of anything.
Just take a look at the interview from a few years ago where he talks about sharing his bed with a child. He had a completely different perspective about bringing a child, especially one who's not your own, into one's own bed. It's more damning than anything in the court cases imo.

Anyway, I'm bailing out. I loved his music and his spirit, but I think he had a very tragic life. I don't want to get caught up in pissing match about MJ's actions. But please don't let your love for a person's work blind you to their faults.
 

Meier

Member
Guy was a pedophile. Plain and simple. And if you think he only did it to one kid, you're nuts.

Now that he's dead, shitloads of stuff will come out in time.
 
fistfulofmetal said:
wow, when?
He was having a sexual interaction with a certain actress, originally from Israel, known from Leon, Star Wars ep 1,2,3 etc, anyway, his heart couldn't take it. Sad tale.
 

bud

Member
fistfulofmetal said:
well excuse me. i've been gone for a month. i gotta catch up.

i think it's a conspiracy

he was about to give 50 concerts
he died at the age of 50
btw, (50+50)/2 = yes... 50

50

think about that
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Mercury Fred said:
Just take a look at the interview from a few years ago where he talks about sharing his bed with a child. He had a completely different perspective about bringing a child, especially one who's not your own, into one's own bed. It's more damning than anything in the court cases imo.

Anyway, I'm bailing out. I loved his music and his spirit, but I think he had a very tragic life. I don't want to get caught up in pissing match about MJ's actions. But please don't let your love for a person's work blind you to their faults.
People loved his music but if even half of those allegations are true it would basically make him a monster. And that's giving people cognitive dissonance like a motherfucker. I expect to see a lot more opinion pieces like the OP in the future.
 
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