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[MastaKiiLA]

He's right though. China's still very much a third world country, and the attitudes toward health or the well-being of others are light years away from what you would expect in a country like Japan, Germany, or the U.S. At one point restaurant were almost all using re-used cooking oil purchased wholesale (highly carcinogenic, and also disgusting). Cheaper restaurants commonly used (and I imagine still do) cardboard as a substitute for meat filling in dumplings. Human hair was even found to be an ingredient in a soy sauce factory. And then there was the poisonous baby formula that was killing babies across the country. One expat I know had his wife die giving birth, and my good friend's wife had her uterus permanently damaged during a simple operation. If you spend a little time in China, you'll realize that "China + Quality Control + Viruses" is a scary fucking thought.

Have you ever actually been to China? In mainland Asia, there's a weird juxtaposition of rich and poor, traditional and modern styles being directly adjacent. However, calling China third world is pretty fucking stupid.

 

[Spaceman292]

Luckely everybody got out without harm tho. That looks mighty scary.

The catastrophe hasn't happened yet. They'll probably say it's safe and send everyone back in, then it'll fall a week later.

 

[nush]

Have you ever actually been to China? I'm mainland Asia, there's a weird juxtaposition of rich and poor, traditional and modern styles being directly adjacent. However, cashing China third world is pretty fucking stupid.

No lies detected. China GAF checking in.

 

[Impotaku]

Tower is probably made of chinesium the most fragile substance known to man, CCP approved.

 

[Dr.D00p]

maybe its a big vibrating dildo

..on high, causing a localised resonance cascade!

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

He's right though. China's still very much a third world country, and the attitudes toward health or the well-being of others are light years away from what you would expect in a country like Japan, Germany, or the U.S. At one point restaurant were almost all using re-used cooking oil purchased wholesale (highly carcinogenic, and also disgusting). Cheaper restaurants commonly used (and I imagine still do) cardboard as a substitute for meat filling in dumplings. Human hair was even found to be an ingredient in a soy sauce factory. And then there was the poisonous baby formula that was killing babies across the country. One expat I know had his wife die giving birth, and my good friend's wife had her uterus permanently damaged during a simple operation. If you spend a little time in China, you'll realize that "China + Quality Control + Viruses" is a scary fucking thought.

What the fuck is this bs.

I can see the racism leaked from the previous politics forum

 

[down 2 orth]

Have you ever actually been to China? In mainland Asia, there's a weird juxtaposition of rich and poor, traditional and modern styles being directly adjacent. However, calling China third world is pretty fucking stupid.

Lol, I've spent seven years of my life living in China, a lot of it was doing business there and getting to know the intimate side of the country that you didn't hear about from your CNN special report. China, is VERY much a third world country. I love it, and it will always have a special place in my heart, but that's just a simple objective fact. Anyone who has been outside of Shanghai will tell you as much.

Here's some reading material. You should probably think before you spout off on something you don't know about, and then, funny enough, call others "stupid".

What the fuck is this bs.

I can see the racism leaked from the previous politics forum

Does something qualify as racism simply because you don't want to hear it? Apart from the two anecdotal and unfortunate examples I gave of my friends' wives, everything I listed is a known fact. Take some time and look it up. The poisonous baby formula incident is particularly well-documented, and any person from the mainland will be sure to give you their two cents about it.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

Lol, I've spent seven years of my life living in China, a lot of it was doing business there and getting to know the intimate side of the country that you didn't hear about from your CNN special report. China, is VERY much a third world country. I love it, and it will always have a special place in my heart, but that's just a simple objective fact. Anyone who has been outside of Shanghai will tell you as much.

Here's some reading material. You should probably think before you spout off on something you don't know about, and then, funny enough, call others "stupid".

I'm not sure you know what a third world country is. Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Vietnam are less developed than China, but they're not third world either. You have fairly-to-very modern urban centers like Bangkok, Phnom Penh, Jakarta, Hanoi, and Ho Chi Minh. Then you have rural areas in surrounding provinces. These countries occupy that gap between first and third world, usually called second world. I currently live in Thailand.

China has so many people crammed into what is a region/subcontinent's worth of major metropolitan cities, that it is very much first world. If you go to some rural parts of the US, you get people living in squalor, and very rudimentary lifestyles as well. You don't rate the US based on some country farmer in Montana, you rate the country based on NYC and LA. China is Shanghai, Beijing, and the like. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more developed than India and most of the former Soviet Bloc. If China is third world, then there are only a small fraction of first world countries in the world, which is pretty false.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

I'm not sure you know what a third world country is.

A third world country literally refers to any non-aligned country in the Cold War, NATO-led USA vs USSR's Warsaw Pact. USA and NATO nations represented the First World and USSR along with China and Cuba were the Second World.

So you are correct, China is NOT a Third World Country but your reasoning and explanation of why you're correct is actually incorrect. It has nothing to do with modern urban centers or rural areas or metropolitan cities.

 

[PSYGN]

The "Made in China" part of the title caught me off guard

 

[down 2 orth]

I'm not sure you know what a third world country is. Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Vietnam are less developed than China, but they're not third world either. You have fairly-to-very modern urban centers like Bangkok, Phnom Penh, Jakarta, Hanoi, and Ho Chi Minh. Then you have rural areas in surrounding provinces. These countries occupy that gap between first and third world, usually called second world. I currently live in Thailand.

China has so many people crammed into what is a region/subcontinent's worth of major metropolitan cities, that it is very much first world. If you go to some rural parts of the US, you get people living in squalor, and very rudimentary lifestyles as well. You don't rate the US based on some country farmer in Montana, you rate the country based on NYC and LA. China is Shanghai, Beijing, and the like. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more developed than India and most of the former Soviet Bloc. If China is third world, then there are only a small fraction of first world countries in the world, which is pretty false.

From Tomlinson, B.R. (2003). "What was the Third World", Journal of Contemporary History, 38(2): 307–321, via Wikipedia:

Due to the complex history of evolving meanings and contexts, there is no clear or agreed-upon definition of the Third World. Some countries in the Communist Bloc, such as Cuba, were often regarded as "Third World". Because many Third World countries were economically poor and non-industrialized, it became a stereotype to refer to developing countries as "third world countries", yet the "Third World" term is also often taken to include newly industrialized countries like Brazil, China and India now more commonly referred to as part of BRIC.

So we are in agreement that I am referring to the term as a synonym for "developing country." But we are most certainly not in agreement that China is, as you say, "very much first world."

Important question: have you been to China before? If you have, you'll probably recall doctors chainsmoking in hospital operating rooms and medical staff not washing their hands. Or patients loudly clearing their throats before spitting on the hospital floor. There's no comparison between rural America and rural (or even urban) China. I don't say this in a condescending way. What I'm getting at goes back to my point that in China "attitudes toward health or the well-being of others are light years away from what you would expect in a country like Japan, Germany, or the U.S." Aside from ignorance, the only other stance I could see for disagreeing with China being seen in this regard is by taking the disingenuous position of arguing for the sake of national pride.

Someone earlier made the point that it is frightening to think that a country like China is experimenting with deadly diseases, and another person ridiculed him or her for it. That's not a thought that warrants ridicule - it deserves serious attention. I get that people are worried that if China is complicit in the creation of COVID 19, racism will follow. But lying to ourselves is only going to make matters worse. Thankfully the scientific community is starting to provide answers on where the virus came from.

 

[Pol Pot]

Lost me at "attitudes towards the health and well-being of others" and "U.S." in the same sentence.

Unless you meant negative attitudes. Then yeah, carry on.

 

[Mistake]

I was in Beijing for 6 years. Outside any major city, it’s very much a third world country. China itself openly admits this by attaching special conditions to migrant workers, people not born in those cities. Still, I will admit they do some things better, such as adopting new technology like LED lights, countrywide railway, or the convenience of money apps like alipay or wechat

 

[nush]

Outside any major city, it’s very much a third world country.

China is a huge country and to make statements like this is ignorant. What about towns, do they count? Or is non third world anywhere that has skyscrapers, couple of Starbucks and a metro?

 

[Mistake]

China is a huge country and to make statements like this is ignorant. What about towns, do they count? Or is non third world anywhere that has skyscrapers, couple of Starbucks and a metro?

Not ignorant at all. I was counting towns. It’s basically an hour or two outside any major city. Hell, my best friend’s wife is chinese, and her family doesn’t have a working toilet. I know because I went there…

 

[nush]

Hell, my best friend’s wife is chinese, and her family doesn’t have a working toilet. I know because I went there…

So what do they do? Shit in the woods?

 

[down 2 orth]

So what do they do? Shit in the woods?

Have you not had the pleasure of seeing a grandma and her grandbaby at a Chinese bus stop?

 

[nush]

Have you not had the pleasure of seeing a grandma and her grandbaby at a Chinese bus stop?

Have you not had the pleasure of seeing a grandma and her grandbaby in the checkout queue in Walmart?

 

[down 2 orth]

Have you not had the pleasure of seeing a grandma and her grandbaby in the checkout queue in Walmart?

I'm guessing Grandma doesn't bend the baby over to help it poo all over the store.

Lost me at "attitudes towards the health and well-being of others" and "U.S." in the same sentence.

Unless you meant negative attitudes. Then yeah, carry on.

Don’t worry about feeling lost, that’s just a first-world problem

 

[Pol Pot]

I'm guessing Grandma doesn't bend the baby over to help it poo all over the store.


Don’t worry about feeling lost, that’s just a first-world problem

I know where I am. If you think we care about the health and well being of others, I'd suggest you confirm where you are.

 

[nush]

I'm guessing Grandma doesn't bend the baby over to help it poo all over the store.

Walmart in China she did. "Just" pee though. The more sophisticated grandmas at least hold the baby over one of the bins in store to pee in.

 

[Mistake]

So what do they do? Shit in the woods?

There is a wall outside the house, behind that is a hole. The most vile thing you will ever smell upon approach

 

[NahaNago]

I'd probably go with terrible construction for the building as well.

What the fuck is this bs.

I can see the racism leaked from the previous politics forum

I've heard of half these stories as well though. The cooking oil was supposedly gotten from I believe a restaurants drain and reused. The cardboard meat dumpling is from a long time ago, I thought. The baby formula drama should be well known. China is definitely not a third world country. I want to criticize them for quality control but they have a large population and some folks are going to do some shady and despicable things to make a buck.

 

[Great Hair]

China is a huge country and to make statements like this is ignorant.

I have to agree with him. The outskirts are on the same level as some Villages in Africa. Just watch some of those YT travelling thru China, its a stark contrast to what they trying to sell.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Does something qualify as racism simply because you don't want to hear it? Apart from the two anecdotal and unfortunate examples I gave of my friends' wives, everything I listed is a known fact. Take some time and look it up. The poisonous baby formula incident is particularly well-documented, and any person from the mainland will be sure to give you their two cents about it.

The racism part was not directed at you. I've been living here for 2 years now and NEVER heard or seen such things. And no, I don't live in the super big cities that most foreigners live in.
The baby powder one I know, and it's unfortunate. But the rest I have never seen, experienced or ever met someone who did.

I'd probably go with terrible construction for the building as well.

I've heard of half these stories as well though. The cooking oil was supposedly gotten from I believe a restaurants drain and reused. The cardboard meat dumpling is from a long time ago, I thought. The baby formula drama should be well known. China is definitely not a third world country. I want to criticize them for quality control but they have a large population and some folks are going to do some shady and despicable things to make a buck.

That's a true thing. But considering how huge China is, saying that China is defined by those actions is just ridiculous. I've been to a lot of places here, big and small, and never seen such a thing.

Even if you go to my country or any other developed country, you're gonna see some shady shit. People cut where they can to make a buck or two more. That doesn't define how the country or its people operates though.

 

[DragoonKain]

I remember seeing a documentary about how bad their construction was. Using filler on the concrete and stuff like that. I think an earth quake ravaged some areas and entire buildings collapsed that wouldn’t have if the construction was done with quality materials.

Also that some places mix in cardboard with the bread as filler because it’s cheaper to make.

 

[nush]

I've been living here for 2 years now and NEVER heard or seen such things.

It's really not a good idea to tag how many your you have lived in China (Not just you RoyalLaFlame this is directed at the 6/7 years exp people as well ). If people use this framing as to why they are right about such a large and diverse country someone with more exp will come along and they must be more right.

 

[NahaNago]

The racism part was not directed at you. I've been living here for 2 years now and NEVER heard or seen such things. And no, I don't live in the super big cities that most foreigners live in.
The baby powder one I know, and it's unfortunate. But the rest I have never seen, experienced or ever met someone who did.

That's a true thing. But considering how huge China is, saying that China is defined by those actions is just ridiculous. I've been to a lot of places here, big and small, and never seen such a thing.

Even if you go to my country or any other developed country, you're gonna see some shady shit. People cut where they can to make a buck or two more. That doesn't define how the country or its people operates though.

Here's the thing considering how much China censors it's news it's possible you just might not even hear it where you are at. Plus half of those issues aren't national headline news stuff like the oil and cardboard meat dumpling. I'm pretty sure for the most part living in China can be okay for foreigners.

A group getting defined by the actions of a few is pretty normal ( muslims and 911). Just because you've been to many places doesn't mean it doesn't happen. China like you said is huge and each country has their own version and level of shadiness. The problem though is that I think a lot of folk now expect shadiness from China whether it comes from stealing technology, to terrible construction practices, to widespread corruption/bribery, or low quality safety standards. Plus you have the uigher situation and they just got through with the hong kong takeover.

 

[BouncyFrag]

Pick one:
A) stay the night at the top of the skyscraper
B) climb this radio tower:

 

[Soodanim]

The moment Chinese steel was mentioned, I knew it was going to be bad. If it’s anything like the shit quality stuff that gets imported to Britain, you don’t want it. I hope they try a little harder in their skyscrapers, but if the OP skyscraper is anything to go by it seems unlikely.

 

[down 2 orth]

I'm pretty sure for the most part living in China can be okay for foreigners.

And that's just it. Living in China can be more than okay for foreigners, it can be an extremely positive life-changing experience (like it was for me). I would strongly recommend that anyone with an interest of living or traveling in China gives it a try. The culture is extremely varied and dense, and the country is full of amazing people.

But yeah, in the current political climate people can get the wrong idea about certain things. Some folks can be super sensitive to criticism about their country, even if it's appropriate and something that we're all better off acknowledging and addressing. On the other hand there are also people who just want to criticize and don't have the slightest clue about the world outside of where they live. It can be hard to get a conversation through at times, especially on the internet. The best remedy for that is to just travel, see the world, and talk to people in person. Shaky buildings and cardboard dumplings are the exception, not the norm.

 

[NahaNago]

And that's just it. Living in China can be more than okay for foreigners, it can be an extremely positive life-changing experience (like it was for me). I would strongly recommend that anyone with an interest of living or traveling in China gives it a try. The culture is extremely varied and dense, and the country is full of amazing people.

But yeah, in the current political climate people can get the wrong idea about certain things. Some folks can be super sensitive to criticism about their country, even if it's appropriate and something that we're all better off acknowledging and addressing. On the other hand there are also people who just want to criticize and don't have the slightest clue about the world outside of where they live. It can be hard to get a conversation through at times, especially on the internet. The best remedy for that is to just travel, see the world, and talk to people in person. Shaky buildings and cardboard dumplings are the exception, not the norm.

I think the issue I mostly have is I've read and heard tons of disturbing things concerning China. In my head I know that China is a beautiful country with decent people but I also can't remove all the disturbing things I've heard, read, or seen concerning China. It is like folks who hear about the gun violence in the U.S. all the time and don't visit because of it. I've personally never experienced any gun violence although I'm pretty sure I've heard gunshots in my neighborhood which made me a little paranoid.

Seven reasons why China is so disaster-prone

 

[Mistake]

I think the issue I mostly have is I've read and heard tons of disturbing things concerning China. In my head I know that China is a beautiful country with decent people but I also can't remove all the disturbing things I've heard, read, or seen concerning China. It is like folks who hear about the gun violence in the U.S. all the time and don't visit because of it. I've personally never experienced any gun violence although I'm pretty sure I've heard gunshots in my neighborhood which made me a little paranoid.

Seven reasons why China is so disaster-prone

It depends where you go for the most part. Northern china is very different from the south. But if it wasn’t for crazy stuff, that would leave out half the reason for going in the first place Plenty of good with the bad, same as anywhere

 

[GaijinZero]

Have you ever actually been to China? In mainland Asia, there's a weird juxtaposition of rich and poor, traditional and modern styles being directly adjacent. However, calling China third world is pretty fucking stupid.

Then why is the rest of the world still donating financial aid to them? The whole situation is fucked up, they're building a space station yet we're still providing them with financial assistance.

 

[nush]

Then why is the rest of the world still donating financial aid to them?

Got a source? I found this with a quick search.

FA.gov

explorer.usaid.gov

Support to ethnic Tibetans seems like a worthy cause.

 

[NahaNago]

Then why is the rest of the world still donating financial aid to them? The whole situation is fucked up, they're building a space station yet we're still providing them with financial assistance.

The biggest help they seem to be getting is the fact that they have the status of a developing country that gives them some benefits in trade rather than donations. From the WTO site.

The WTO Agreements contain special provisions which give developing countries special rights and which give developed countries the possibility to treat developing countries more favourably than other WTO Members. These special provisions include, for example, longer time periods for implementing Agreements and commitments or measures to increase trading opportunities for developing countries.

These provisions are referred to as “special and differential treatment” (S&D) provisions.

The special provisions include:

• longer time periods for implementing Agreements and commitments,
• measures to increase trading opportunities for developing countries,
• provisions requiring all WTO members to safeguard the trade interests of developing countries,
• support to help developing countries build the capacity to carry out WTO work, handle disputes, and implement technical standards, and
• provisions related to least-developed country (LDC) Members.

The WTO Secretariat has made several compilations of the special and differential provisions and their use. The latest WTO document setting out the implementation of these S&D provisions is in WT/COMTD/W/258

 

[nush]

It's still shaking!

 

[mansoor1980]

It's still shaking!

 

[nush]

This is accurate, I've seen some shit in the buildings I've lived and worked in China.

 

[Blade2.0]

I'm not here to say China has the highest of engineering standards, but USA can't say shit when it comes to quality construction, either. Our infrastructure is just as shit as theirs (we did just have a building collapse out of no where after all). Not to mention the millennium building in San Francisco that's becoming a new leaning tower of Pisa and it's not even a decade old. Probably many many other examples to be had. Don't know where I'm going with this, I just find it pretty stupid to lol "Chinese shoddy construction" when you're living in a country that's just as bad at it.

 

[SJRB]

It's still shaking!

Lol this video went off the deep end as soon as he started talking about fucking Feng Shui mirrors.

 

[Kev Kev]

Pick one:
A) stay the night at the top of the skyscraper
B) climb this radio tower:

Considering just watching that video is making my palms sweat, I’m going to go with option A.

Jesus Christ hell no on climbing that tower. My stomach is literally in knots trying to watch that.

 

[SJRB]

Considering just watching that video is making my palms sweat, I’m going to go with option A.

Jesus Christ hell no on climbing that tower. My stomach is literally in knots trying to watch that.

Haha yeah, knees weak mom spaghetti watching that video.

Wish it was in higher res though.

 

[Kev Kev]

It's still shaking!

lmao. they placed that convex mirror on the side of the building like "welp, sorry folks, we got nothin. only thing left to do now is pucker up your buttholes and hope these convex mirrors keep away the bad energies"

 

[Mistake]

I'm not here to say China has the highest of engineering standards, but USA can't say shit when it comes to quality construction, either. Our infrastructure is just as shit as theirs (we did just have a building collapse out of no where after all). Not to mention the millennium building in San Francisco that's becoming a new leaning tower of Pisa and it's not even a decade old. Probably many many other examples to be had. Don't know where I'm going with this, I just find it pretty stupid to lol "Chinese shoddy construction" when you're living in a country that's just as bad at it.

Well they have a higher population and build lots of skyscrapers, so naturally they will have more examples of poor construction. However, sometimes they’re bad for reasons you wouldn’t expect. I was at a school once and caught a glimpse of the blueprint to the building. I noticed there were extra doors (emergency exits) on it that didn’t exist, so I asked the administrator why. He said it was bad feng shui

 

[Blade2.0]

Well they have a higher population and build lots of skyscrapers, so naturally they will have more examples of poor construction. However, sometimes they’re bad for reasons you wouldn’t expect. I was at a school once and caught a glimpse of the blueprint to the building. I noticed there were extra doors (emergency exits) on it that didn’t exist, so I asked the administrator why. He said it was bad feng shui

I mean, I lived there too and I'm definitely not saying they're engineering geniuses, but USA got a lot of shit as well infrastructure-wise.

 

[yuadesa]

I'm not here to say China has the highest of engineering standards, but USA can't say shit when it comes to quality construction, either. Our infrastructure is just as shit as theirs (we did just have a building collapse out of no where after all). Not to mention the millennium building in San Francisco that's becoming a new leaning tower of Pisa and it's not even a decade old. Probably many many other examples to be had. Don't know where I'm going with this, I just find it pretty stupid to lol "Chinese shoddy construction" when you're living in a country that's just as bad at it.

seriously, very interesting to see all the trolling about a shaking building when recuse workers are still pulling bodies out of the ground in miami. the US cant even maintain what they already have, much less actually build new infrastructure.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I mean, I lived there too and I'm definitely not saying they're engineering geniuses, but USA got a lot of shit as well infrastructure-wise.

Does it have shaking skyscrapers or building ghost towns nobody wants to live in? TF is this ‘both sides’ argument?

 

[CloudNull]

I'm not here to say China has the highest of engineering standards, but USA can't say shit when it comes to quality construction, either. Our infrastructure is just as shit as theirs (we did just have a building collapse out of no where after all). Not to mention the millennium building in San Francisco that's becoming a new leaning tower of Pisa and it's not even a decade old. Probably many many other examples to be had. Don't know where I'm going with this, I just find it pretty stupid to lol "Chinese shoddy construction" when you're living in a country that's just as bad at it.

I have my issues with China.... mostly political, how they treat some people, and how wasteful they are, but you cannot deny the engineering feats they have accomplished since The Great Leap forward. I know a lot of the construction is shit but there is also tons of great things going on. They just landed a rover on Mars, built their own space station because the US said "you cant play with us", so China said "Fuck you we make our own station". They are now in the greatest competition to America when it comes to the Space race. They also have lifted over 100 million people out of Extreme poverty..... no idea how much is propaganda but you can easily see their achievements compounding at a rapid pace.

Every country will have their shoddy designs and they will also have their strongest achievements stand above the rest. No reason people can't give props where due and still bash them for shit engineering. So many people like to lump the US as the greatest engineers ever and call China shit when in reality we are very similar.

Not sure what the heck is going on with this building but it is wild story to follow.

 

[NahaNago]

seriously, very interesting to see all the trolling about a shaking building when recuse workers are still pulling bodies out of the ground in miami. the US cant even maintain what they already have, much less actually build new infrastructure.

The problem is that when a building or let say bridge falls down/apart in the U.S. it is world news whereas in China it happens so often they nickname those types of building as I believe tofu-dreg. The U.S. does have some infrastructure issues no doubt but comparing it to what China has is ridiculous.