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The Sugar Conspiracy (how bad nutrition science made us fatter and unhealthier)

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Deleted member 17706

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I'm referring to ward studies where, all other things being equal, people have lost basically the same amount of weight (and with similar body composition changes) on low carb, high carb, high fat, low fat etc. Not low protein for what it's worth (body composition problems) but yeah... fill your boots as they say.

That doesn't get into psychological aspects, which is why I said that in the real world you'd pick what works for you.

The simple fact is that none of these diets are magic (fasting has some interesting effects, but it's barely been studied), through one method or another they all create a calorific deficit which results in weight loss.

I'm definitely going to need to see some links to those studies... These are some very definitive statements you're making.

I also strongly disagree that the only way to lose weight, or otherwise mobilize and reduce body fat stores is to starve the body of energy as provided by food sources--that the only way is to "create a caloric deficit" in which the only variables are potential caloric load via ingested food and energy expended by the body as measured in calories within the same window.

Anecdotally, I know that simply isn't true, as I consume anywhere between 2,000 and 4,000 calories or more daily, yet my average weight has remained unchanged for almost a year despite obvious gains in muscle and obvious reductions in body fat percentage. Activity levels have largely remained the same, too.

The very fact that not all food is used for energy (as you tacitly admit to when talking about protein requirements) should raise flags in people that you shouldn't just be paying attention to the calorie count on the nutrition label.
 
I've been on 1300-1500 cals a day with jumps to 1900 on big excercise days. I've lost a lot of weight and gained a good deal of muscle.

The calorie thing does work and I'll keep using it as long as it works. Though I've always tboughr eating 1500 cals of chocolate cake per day would probably be worse for you weight wise than 2000 cals of chicken.
 
I'm definitely going to need to see some links to those studies... These are some very definitive statements you're making.

They're discussed on the Colpo link on the last page. There's not (to my knowledge) any ward studies that show low carb as capable of creating weight loss without an associated calorie deficit. Also no advantage for body composition vs high carb.

There's really no point in discussing anecdotes either. Hell, I'm currently eating 4k+ calories a day and massive amounts of sugar... but not gaining weight. Do I think I have some magic metabolism? Of course not, I'm burning significant amounts through exercise and there's plenty of body recomposition going on.

Ignoring the fact that daily figures are largely meaningless... what really matters are the long term averages (see people eating 10,000kcal some days, 1,500kcal others).
 
They're discussed on the Colpo link on the last page. There's not (to my knowledge) any ward studies that show low carb as capable of creating weight loss without an associated calorie deficit. Also no advantage for body composition vs high carb.

There's really no point in discussing anecdotes either. Hell, I'm currently eating 4k+ calories a day and massive amounts of sugar... but not gaining weight. Do I think I have some magic metabolism? Of course not, I'm burning significant amounts through exercise and there's plenty of body recomposition going on.

Ignoring the fact that daily figures are largely meaningless... what really matters are the long term averages (see people eating 10,000kcal some days, 1,500kcal others).

Discussion anecdotes is indeed pointless. There are too many variables. Genetics play a major role in weight loss or weight gain. A poor diet results in genetic changes in the parent that are passed to the offspring. The quality of food you eat also has an effect [whole foods vs refined/processed foods affect insulin, leptin, parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system and also affect behavior].

Your gut bacteria has a huge role in this as well. There are studies now showing that a prolonged lifestyle of eating "bad" food can lead to extinction of certain colonies of gut bacteria. Also, one study I read yesterday determined that of course you cannot pass on to your offspring what you do not have. So in the case of gut bacteria, whatever colonies have been extinct in the mom will not be passed on to the offspring.

Then with exercise there's again a genetic component. Exercises of course improves insulin resistance which is great but some people are responders and some are non-responders. Thus exercise will not affect us all equally.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
They're discussed on the Colpo link on the last page. There's not (to my knowledge) any ward studies that show low carb as capable of creating weight loss without an associated calorie deficit. Also no advantage for body composition vs high carb.

There's really no point in discussing anecdotes either. Hell, I'm currently eating 4k+ calories a day and massive amounts of sugar... but not gaining weight. Do I think I have some magic metabolism? Of course not, I'm burning significant amounts through exercise and there's plenty of body recomposition going on.

Ignoring the fact that daily figures are largely meaningless... what really matters are the long term averages (see people eating 10,000kcal some days, 1,500kcal others).

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like any of the studies in the Colpo link are available for viewing online, so we only have the summary of a guy who wears his bias against anything that deviates from the energy balance hypothesis on his sleeve.

I'll read through it, but his first one is already about an undefined number of overweight (two with diabetes) patients being fed a variety of liquid diets. He doesn't disclose the caloric amount, other than that the different mixtures were isocaloric and formulated to maintain weight. It sounds like the formulae ranged from high-carb (45%) to ultra-high carb (85%).

Anyway, it seems like a bit much to me to take this guy's blog post as your evidence for calories being everything.

I really don't see how you can contend that daily averages are meaningless but what really matters are the long term averages. So one arbitrary window of time is meaningless, but another longer (but still undefined) window of time is what really matters?

The body processes food when you eat it. It doesn't put it all away in some holding chamber until the end of the week (or whatever arbitrary cutoff point you choose) when it then tallies up the total potential energy yield of the food consumed, subtracts the energy expended by the body during the same window, and then either reduces body fat or puts it on depending on the outcome. Instead, what your body does with the food you eat is determined by a variety of environmental and hormonal factors *at the time* of consumption. Furthermore, the nutrient composition of what you ate will further affect what your body does with the next batch of food it is fed. Finally, the body also determines from where it will get its energy *at the time* the requirement for energy arises.

The point of discussing anecdotes is to further drive home the point that everyone is different. For example, through my own experience and experimentation, I know that *what* I eat will affect my body composition. The same amount of calories from bread, pasta, and cake will cause me to put on more adipose tissue than an even higher amount of calories from steak, butter, and eggs. I've seen this happen in myself and other people. On the other hand, your body and your situation has you excelling on a sugar and starch-based diet. A Ketogenic diet makes you miserable. For all of these to be true, we would have to have pretty different physiology, and we probably do.

Discussion anecdotes is indeed pointless. There are too many variables. Genetics play a major role in weight loss or weight gain. A poor diet results in genetic changes in the parent that are passed to the offspring. The quality of food you eat also has an effect [whole foods vs refined/processed foods affect insulin, leptin, parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system and also affect behavior].

Your gut bacteria has a huge role in this as well. There are studies now showing that a prolonged lifestyle of eating "bad" food can lead to extinction of certain colonies of gut bacteria. Also, one study I read yesterday determined that of course you cannot pass on to your offspring what you do not have. So in the case of gut bacteria, whatever colonies have been extinct in the mom will not be passed on to the offspring.

Then with exercise there's again a genetic component. Exercises of course improves insulin resistance which is great but some people are responders and some are non-responders. Thus exercise will not affect us all equally.

I agree. There are some basic universal truths, obviously, but everyone's situation, environment, and bodies are too different. This is why the entire concept of reducing all food to numbers and looking at body fat accumulation as a simple energy balance equation is just ridiculous.
 

Hypron

Member
The Whole30 (google) is a great way to get started with a fresh slate. It's kinda like the cold turkey approach: ditch all the junk and only eat W30-approved foods for a month. The results are always educational and sometimes striking.

Just had a look and that won't work for me since I'm vegan. I can't stop eating legumes and grains otherwise there'll be barely anything left that I can eat haha

Thanks though.
 

yonder

Member
Just had a look and that won't work for me since I'm vegan. I can't stop eating legumes and grains otherwise there'll be barely anything left that I can eat haha

Thanks though.
Ain't nothing wrong with legumes, whole grains and such. Just focus on whole foods (legumes, grains, vegetables, fruits, nuts & seeds) and you'll be good. Check out some plant-based doctors like Dr McDougall, Neil Barnard and Michael Greger if you need some more info.
 

justjohn

Member
I've been on 1300-1500 cals a day with jumps to 1900 on big excercise days. I've lost a lot of weight and gained a good deal of muscle.

The calorie thing does work and I'll keep using it as long as it works. Though I've always tboughr eating 1500 cals of chocolate cake per day would probably be worse for you weight wise than 2000 cals of chicken.
What's your weight if you don't mind me asking?
 
Your gut bacteria has a huge role in this as well. There are studies now showing that a prolonged lifestyle of eating "bad" food can lead to extinction of certain colonies of gut bacteria. Also, one study I read yesterday determined that of course you cannot pass on to your offspring what you do not have. So in the case of gut bacteria, whatever colonies have been extinct in the mom will not be passed on to the offspring.

Yes, the issue of gut microbiota seems to be going mainstream and it's about damn time. You are right that if the mother's gut bacteria are in a bad state, the child's bacteria will be as well. And this is something that can accumulate and get worse through generations if a bad lifestyle is kept. And of course, a course of antibiotics can wipe out entire species of bacteria in one swoop.
 

A Fish Aficionado

I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Yes, the issue of gut microbiota seems to be going mainstream and it's about damn time. You are right that if the mother's gut bacteria are in a bad state, the child's bacteria will as well. And this is something that can accumulate and get worse through generations if a bad lifestyle is kept. And of course, a course of antibiotics can wipe out entire species of bacteria in one swoop.
This is so preliminary that it's a non issue.

You just cannot extrapolate on it.

Thus far, c diff is the only thing that basically calls for probiotics or stool transplants. Or if you are on broad spectrum antibiotics, and even then it's not fully understood.

It's mostly just bullshit otherwise.
 

Keihart

Member
Sugar aka The white devil

how about brown sugar? let's not be racist here please.

Very good read, i've gotten acostumed to drink tea without sugar, it's one of my favorite drinks now, that or water whenever i'm thirsty or eating a meal.

Don't really miss soda that much, they kinda upset my stomach now.
 
This is so preliminary that it's a non issue.

You just cannot extrapolate on it.

Thus far, c diff is the only thing that basically calls for probiotics or stool transplants. Or if you are on broad spectrum antibiotics, and even then it's not fully understood.

It's mostly just bullshit otherwise.

I went looking for studies on the relationship between antibiotics and obesity in children, but I will admit that they seem to be split on whether it has an effect or not. It's well known that antibiotics contribute to weight gain in livestock though.
 
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