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The Tale of Princess Kaguya - subversive, brutal, depressing masterpice about women

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I went into this without seeing the trailer or any reviews, just confident of Ghibli quality. I took my sister to see this movie because she's had a busy week with her 12 hour shifts at the hospital and it really has put her life along with other women's in perspective for me.

kaguya-620x350.png


First off, I should make the obligatory mention of how stunning the watercolour look is. I have seen review pull quotes mostly commenting on the art of the movie in posters, but there's so much more to this. The movie is 137 minutes, which is quite long for an animated feature. Probably one of the longest. Ghibli movies have usually felt arthouse. There usually are very little conflicts. The slow pace of each scene feels more like live-action. There isn't much action but the focus is entirely on characters and their struggles. Ghibli movies take their time rather than trying to cater to low attention spans. I remember my kid cousins finding My Neighbour Totoro boring even at 86 minutes. The cinema I went to (Odeon Covent Garden), most of the audience were adults with just one or two kids. My point about children continues at the very end of this.

People who pine for Disney and Pixar to be the saviours of animation, to be more progressive, mature, more socially relevant, have been looking in the wrong place. Studio Ghibli has been that right place for quite a while, and if movies like Spirited Away, Grave of the Fireflies (same director here), or The Wind Rises among others haven't made that obvious, then The Tale of Princess Kaguya makes that abundantly clear especially for people who have hidden hopes for Disney/Pixar. If this was somehow made by Disney/Pixar, it'd be getting awards top to bottom like Oscars for best screenplay, best acting, best direction, etc.

This is the subversive, brutal, and depressing masterpiece about women that critics of Disney princesses should be shouting about. Jabs are even made at religion. Best film of 2015 I've seen so far.

A tug-of-war scene at the beginning shows the protagonist as a baby crawling, being beckoned by young kids to come over and play where they are by their nickname for her "Lil Bamboo", and by her father by his nickname for her "Princess". That is essentially foreshadowing for the rest of the movie.

Girlhood and womanhood are explored in this fantastical period piece folktale. It's a critique on the traditional gender roles and restrictive lives that girls/women have to lead for many centuries. "Happiness" lying in a woman marrying, being seen as a rare treasure, and being property than in truly living. The mother comments that the father doesn't truly understand her happiness or even ask her. This was especially resonant to me because my sister is going through a very similar coercion towards marriage, even though she wants to focus on her career as a doctor (her second year now). We ended up bawling at many points of the movie. Loads of women and even men were tearing up in our screening as the credits rolled.

While the boys continue to play to an undetermined age, a girl is meant to change with age, be proper, be noble, move less, not frolic or dance around, and not be seen or heard. Your teeth is blackened, your eyebrows are plucked, and you shouldn't see the man before marriage but only read their love letters or hear proposals while you're stuck in a cage.

The best scene in the movie is when Kaguya runs. Reminds of Shinya Ohira's work. It's animated completely differently from the rest of the movie. The music is ominous here like nowhere else. Fast, loose, sketchy, raw emotion in animation. Frustration and anger.
PrincessKaguyaTeaserfaceArttsr01.jpg

Kaguya-shot.png


There are moments of optimism and hilarity (audience laughed many times) but they're short lived when reality hits.

The Tale of Princess Kaguya essentially paints women's lives on Earth as a nightmare. You don't get to truly live. You lose freedom and agency. You are at the whims of others' wishes and happiness. There is mention of depression and even suicide. The ending can be seen as
death as religious figures drag Kaguya away to back where she came from and she's turned into an amnesiac zombie
. It's depressing as hell, possibly more bleak than Grave of the Fireflies.

Studio Ghibli movies have often been political as in they're usually about something. Most can be seen as being very environmental, and there's still a tinge of that here. Miyazaki's The Wind Rises was a lamentation on Japan among other things. Isao Takahata's work here is all about girlhood/womanhood, gender roles, marriage, loss of innocence, societal expectations, and determinism.

All of this in a movie that can be seen as aimed towards children. I don't know if it even is suitable for children or actually changes the entire paradigm of what children are usually meant to watch. If Ghibli movies were shown to kids at young ages, maybe their attention span would expand and not need whizz bang in their media consumption. They could understand a bit about the world. Especially if you show this to a young girl, because this movie is all about real life (through a fantasy lens) and the withering of freedoms that come along. We force feed our kids on happy escapist stories that have little relevance to the real world, so they don't know what reality ends up being like when they grow up. We try to keep their innocence for as long as we can, in a vain attempt to mentally safeguard them because of our condescending attitude of thinking they can't handle it. Actually, showing them movies about Disney princesses, hero journeys, and fantasy that isn't relevant to the real world is probably more likely to stunt their development than teaching them what life really is like and letting them understand that gradually. I grew up on Neverending Story, Labyrinth, The Land Before Time, James and the Giant Peach, Nightmare Before Christmas, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and Watership Down. Those dark fantasy movies didn't pull any punches and probably helped me deal with real stuff way quicker. If anything, showing this movie might help them understand the world better.
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
What a great, well written opening post!

This is one of Studio Ghibli's finest and it was robbed @ the Oscars this year
 
I cried a lot at the end of this movie. I'm a 22 years old college student and lot of the children in the theater gave me a look, but jeez, was the end devastating.
 
I saw it last weekend in the cinema, just before watching the Ghibli documentary ('The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness').

It is extremely good, and that is a very good post OP.
 
Watched this a few weeks ago. The Blu Ray is absolutely a must-own.

This movie depressed the hell out of me. I didnt read up on the movie or the folktale behind it before hand, but I imagined something more uplifting and happy from the trailers.

Boy was I wrong. It crushed me.

I still loved the heck out of it. One of the best movies I've ever seen.
 

Despera

Banned
Haven't seen it yet, but planning to do so very soon.

I gotta say, I wasn't expecting the film to have the kind of tone described in the OP. I'm more intrigued than ever now.
 
Thanks OP, I remember being interested when the first trailers popped up but haven't kept track of it.
Sounds like I'll really love it so I'm definitely going to watch it soon!
 
Think Jonathan Lack's and Noel Vera's pieces on Princess Kaguya are about the best, of the many I've read since I saw it last week.

On the feminist thread in particular, Lack writes below:
Feminist themes also quietly permeate The Tale of Princess Kaguya. As always in a Ghibli film, when the word ‘Princess’ is evoked, it is for the purpose of criticism, not empty celebration or pandering. Moreso than any other Ghibli feature to explore the idea, Kaguya asks what it truly means to be a ‘Princess.’ If all it take to create such a station is gold, fine clothing, and social education, is there any purpose to being one? Once her transformation is complete, Kaguya exists only as a symbol, an intangible ideal of beauty to other nobles and common folk, without any responsibilities or agency of her own. To become a ‘Princess,’ her individual identity is subsumed and destroyed. In this way, the film is a rather damning condemnation of that word and everything it stands for. The ultimate tragedy of the story, if one wishes to read it that way, is that Kaguya had to live her life on earth as a Princess, instead of ever truly experiencing the existence of a human.

I was stunned by it, overwhelmed by the quiet suffering of the protagonist, the pathos of the denouement and the range and subtlety of the animation - few films, even in the pantheon of Ghibli greats, do so much work with colour and background as Kaguya. Robbie Collin, in The Telegraph, wrote "Ghibli has one more film left to release before it goes into indefinite hibernation (the ghostly coming-of-age story When Marnie Was There), but as you watch this, you sense the studio’s life’s work is being completed before your eyes, like the sails are being raised on the most magical ship-in-a-bottle ever built."

Will be seeing it for a second time tomorrow. Can't wait.
 
I couldn't agree more. I would just like to add that the ending is one of the most emotionally powerful scenes in all of cinema, which allows the film to subtly disarm the viewer and easily deliver it's message to an empathetic audience. It's not only a beautiful climax, but a premier example of directing. Overall, it's a brilliantly layered experience that had me replaying it in my head for many days afterward. Anyone even remotely interested should give it a watch.
 

LegatoB

Member
It's unfortunate that Princess Kaguya came out when it did, so soon after the "last great work" of everyone's favorite Mainstream Anime Auteur, Miyazaki's The Wind Rises. While that's a good film, and makes for great narratives about careers in the arts, and arguments about how much a fictionalized biography of a person could act as a stand-in for the Autuer's own life, Kaguya is a great film. It's beautiful, and crushing.

And perhaps the film will finally inspire an American release of Only Yesterday!
 

Kurita

Member
One of the most disappointing movies I've ever seen. I don't even think that it was bad, it was just average. Too long, too slow, the MC ended up being annoying... I see people thought it was sad and tragic but since I didn't really care about the girl...
At least it was pretty... but I guess it just wasn't for me.
 

Klossen

Banned
It's one of the greatest in animation. I personally find it to be about more than a specific gender. To me, it was about coming of age, the discovery of human senses and the joys and miseries of life. It's a study of life and death. I personally don't believe that its narrative was restricted to one gender.
 

Lynd7

Member
I love the film, very nice. The music is also great.

EDIT: I thought the dub was fine, although I am not as picky as some people. Kaguya is voiced by Chloe Grace Moretz.
 

Clov

Member
Great post! It's an absolutely amazing movie, and my personal favorite from Ghibli. Yes, I like it even more than Only Yesterday! Reduced my friends and I to wrecks by the end of it.
 
Oh yeah, should mention I saw it subtitled. The one or two songs are gorgeous, can't imagine it having as much power in English dubbing since it involves a more melancholic type of traditional singing. That kind of pitch or tone whatever it's called is very specific to Japanese.
 
It's one of the greatest in animation. I personally find it to be about more than a specific gender. To me, it was about coming of age, the discovery of human senses and the joys and miseries of life. It's a study of life and death. I personally don't believe that its narrative was restricted to one gender.
I think the pressures the film speaks about might be exclusive to one gender. There can be similarities in the class divide if it was about a prince, where he can't be hanging around with common folk and must do specific things when he becomes more regal. But the extent of limitation to not even go out or be seen/heard, I don't think would be shared by a prince.

I'm agreed that it's about those other things, too.
 
Incredible film. I watched it a few weeks ago on blu-ray and it blew me away. One of my favorite Ghibli films, probably even one of my favorite animated films ever. I don't know how much the themes of the film come from the original folk-tale, but I thought the idea of taking this folk-tale and using it to criticize gender roles in feudal Japan was completely brilliant.
 
Haven't seen it yet, but planning to do so very soon.

I gotta say, I wasn't expecting the film to have the kind of tone described in the OP. I'm more intrigued than ever now.

I had absolutely no idea. All I saw was the poster and thought, oh that looks different than every other Ghibli movie. Looks very happy cheery. Should be fun, but could just be a Ponyo and not be as heavy as The Wind Rises. Was completely walloped by the movie in a good way.
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
God I need to see it again, reading the write-up's in this thread again has me convinced it's up there as one of the best ghibli films ever made.
 

Rixxan

Member
im not a big time anime watcher by any means, on the contrary

but kaguya runs was an absolutely breathtaking cinematic moment, powerhouse in every sense of the word
 

Not

Banned
It's pretty incredible. And the dub is actually really good. All professional famous people. No idea how much I liked Chloe Grace Moretz's voice until I saw this movie.
 
I'm happy this topic exists. This masterpiece was my favorite film of last year, and is generally consistently robbed of the praise it deserves.
 
It's pretty incredible. And the dub is actually really good. All professional famous people. No idea how much I liked Chloe Grace Moretz's voice until I saw this movie.

Ohhh, I'd disagree...I hated the dub. I generally like Ghibli Dubs, I'm not the purist elitist type on this matter, but in this case I thought the dub was pretty poor.

I don't know, I think its the contrast of art style mixed with the voices of Brooklyn accents that made it not work. Or I just felt that Moretz and Caan were entirely flat and it just felt like they were feeding lines. This was one of those cases where the dub did absolutely nothing for me.

But hey, that's just me...
 

Loofy

Member
I think this might be the best movie Ive seen all year. Make sure you watch it in japanese though, the english singing sounds like something from barney and friends.
 

Kinokou

Member
Op it seems you have a better analysis of the movie than me.

I actively identify myself as a feminist and I kind of hate the movie, the art is nice and the music is probably one of the best scores to a Ghibli film ever, but that's not enough to make me overlook the atrocity of the ending. When it was over I felt really upset and the entire film seemed to have been a waste if that was how it was going to end to the point where I have been telling other people to not bother seeing the film, because I wish that I hadn't.

Spoilers about the plot and ending I need to vent about in detail
Like really what was the point? Kaguya would never end up in a princess situation if not those damn celestial beings set it all up by showering her father with wealth and dresses. And from beginning to the very end where they turn up again her agency is totally stripped away. And the whole end of her being forced to return against her will looking lake a rape analogy does not make it any better and basically rendered the entire plot a waste. It's the most unfeministic ending to a movie I have ever seen.

Having read your comments now I understand that I have a tendency to react very negatively towards films critiquing society by making the story bleak and depressing. There aren't many examples but for the few instances I have experienced I get so angry by the execution and the lack of a satisfying resolution that I end up hating it. Still now just thinking about Kaguya and the others makes me angry. Maybe that is the goal of the creators, but it's clear for me now that I'm not equipped to handle that and as a result I tell everyone how much I think their movie sucks instead of viewing is as progressive.

I don't think I rewatch this movie anytime soon, but if I do I'll keep your commentary in mind.
 

Crocodile

Member
I watched this movie a couple months ago and wrote a pretty lengthy post on it which pretty much agreed with the OP and most posters in this thread. I don't think it choked me up as much as some other people here but there is no denying the movie was superlative :)

Op it seems you have a better analysis of the movie than me.

I actively identify myself as a feminist and I kind of hate the movie, the art is nice and the music is probably one of the best scores to a Ghibli film ever, but that's not enough to make me overlook the atrocity of the ending. When it was over I felt really upset and the entire film seemed to have been a waste if that was how it was going to end to the point where I have been telling other people to not bother seeing the film, because I wish that I hadn't.

Spoilers about the plot and ending I need to vent about in detail
Like really what was the point? Kaguya would never end up in a princess situation if not those damn celestial beings set it all up by showering her father with wealth and dresses. And from beginning to the very end where they turn up again her agency is totally stripped away. And the whole end of her being forced to return against her will looking lake a rape analogy does not make it any better and basically rendered the entire plot a waste. It's the most unfeministic ending to a movie I have ever seen.

Having read your comments now I understand that I have a tendency to react very negatively towards films critiquing society by making the story bleak and depressing. There aren't many examples but for the few instances I have experienced I get so angry by the execution and the lack of a satisfying resolution that I end up hating it. Still now just thinking about Kaguya and the others makes me angry. Maybe that is the goal of the creators, but it's clear for me now that I'm not equipped to handle that and as a result I tell everyone how much I think their movie sucks instead of viewing is as progressive.

I don't think I rewatch this movie anytime soon, but if I do I'll keep your commentary in mind.

I mean the point of the movie wasn't for Kaguya to "win" but rather exemplify how terrible society was in this aspect in a variety of ways (from a loving father who thinks he's doing what's best for his daughter but is actually fucking up to those damnable nobles) and how, ironically, the moon people who saw themselves as better than Earthings, were really no better in how they treated Kaguya.
 

Leckan

Member
As someone who became intrigued by the film thanks to your post and regretfully read the ending spoiler; does that lessen the enjoyment of the film or is it more about the journey/execution?

Also the part about your cousins finding Totoro boring was just sad. I hope that is just an individual case and not part of a greater trend moving forward.
 

Ratrat

Member
As someone who became intrigued by the film thanks to your post and regretfully read the ending spoiler; does that lessen the enjoyment of the film or is it more about the journey/execution?

Also the part about your cousins finding Totoro boring was just sad. I hope that is just an individual case and not part of a greater trend moving forward.
It's a folktale hundreds of years old...
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Op it seems you have a better analysis of the movie than me.

I actively identify myself as a feminist and I kind of hate the movie, the art is nice and the music is probably one of the best scores to a Ghibli film ever, but that's not enough to make me overlook the atrocity of the ending. When it was over I felt really upset and the entire film seemed to have been a waste if that was how it was going to end to the point where I have been telling other people to not bother seeing the film, because I wish that I hadn't.

Spoilers about the plot and ending I need to vent about in detail
Like really what was the point? Kaguya would never end up in a princess situation if not those damn celestial beings set it all up by showering her father with wealth and dresses. And from beginning to the very end where they turn up again her agency is totally stripped away. And the whole end of her being forced to return against her will looking lake a rape analogy does not make it any better and basically rendered the entire plot a waste. It's the most unfeministic ending to a movie I have ever seen.

Having read your comments now I understand that I have a tendency to react very negatively towards films critiquing society by making the story bleak and depressing. There aren't many examples but for the few instances I have experienced I get so angry by the execution and the lack of a satisfying resolution that I end up hating it. Still now just thinking about Kaguya and the others makes me angry. Maybe that is the goal of the creators, but it's clear for me now that I'm not equipped to handle that and as a result I tell everyone how much I think their movie sucks instead of viewing is as progressive.

I don't think I rewatch this movie anytime soon, but if I do I'll keep your commentary in mind.

I wrote a giant post about it, but the movie's ending is an example of "mono no aware". The point is that
this is a cycle that has happened before, and will presumably happen again, and that we must come to turns with boy the joys of life and its subsequent sorrows.
 

Diabelli

Member
Make sure you watch it in japanese though.
Yeah, I don't know what it is, whether it's the intonation, or because it's harder to detect bad voice acting in a foreign language, but watching this and Grave of the Fireflies in English takes me out of the experience somewhat. The moment you detect hokey acting, or there is a visual-audio dissonance, is the moment that character and even perhaps that world becomes a little less convincing. I'm not against dubs (Disney has made some great ones like Porco Rosso, and Mononoke is another great one I think), but in a film as human and personal as Kaguya that hinges on the emotional resonance of its characters, you want to limit how often that character immersion is broken, and for whatever reason that immersion is very rarely ever broken, in Ghibli at least, when I hear the original. These two films are also very much rooted in Japanese culture and history, so it just adds to the authenticity of it all.

In any case, I agree with the OP; it is a wonderful, affecting and poignant movie. One of Ghibli's masterpieces.
 
Op it seems you have a better analysis of the movie than me.

I actively identify myself as a feminist and I kind of hate the movie, the art is nice and the music is probably one of the best scores to a Ghibli film ever, but that's not enough to make me overlook the atrocity of the ending. When it was over I felt really upset and the entire film seemed to have been a waste if that was how it was going to end to the point where I have been telling other people to not bother seeing the film, because I wish that I hadn't.

Spoilers about the plot and ending I need to vent about in detail
Like really what was the point? Kaguya would never end up in a princess situation if not those damn celestial beings set it all up by showering her father with wealth and dresses. And from beginning to the very end where they turn up again her agency is totally stripped away. And the whole end of her being forced to return against her will looking lake a rape analogy does not make it any better and basically rendered the entire plot a waste. It's the most unfeministic ending to a movie I have ever seen.

Having read your comments now I understand that I have a tendency to react very negatively towards films critiquing society by making the story bleak and depressing. There aren't many examples but for the few instances I have experienced I get so angry by the execution and the lack of a satisfying resolution that I end up hating it. Still now just thinking about Kaguya and the others makes me angry. Maybe that is the goal of the creators, but it's clear for me now that I'm not equipped to handle that and as a result I tell everyone how much I think their movie sucks instead of viewing is as progressive.

I don't think I rewatch this movie anytime soon, but if I do I'll keep your commentary in mind.

I personally wouldn't have felt the movie had as much impact if it ended in a more
positive way cause then it might not stick in the back of the head when we look back at the real world and see how society treats women. It had plenty of signs that it wouldn't be positive because the positive moments end up being dreams
.

I've found more value in
tragic
stuff, anyway so that's just a personal preference.
 
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