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[Annoying Old Party Man]

I wrote a giant post about it, but the movie's ending is an example of "mono no aware". The point is that

Spoiler

this is a cycle that has happened before, and will presumably happen again, and that we must come to turns with boy the joys of life and its subsequent sorrows.

This movie broke me completely - Takahata's emotional intelligence has left me broken in all of his films (well perhaps except from Pom Poko).

For me, Kaguya was what you said, a reflection on the pathos of existence. Kaguya discovers in the end that life itself is an incredible achievement - all life, in all forms and sentiments.

The director sends a message at the end of his life's work: every breath is your dying one, and all your suffering and joy constitute the most precious gift in the universe - that of simply existing and living, and experiencing life in all it's forms.

 

[Usobuko]

I don't think I will ever get to watch this in theatre in my country. Thanks for bringing in all the cheap flicks and uninspired tripe instead of this.

 

[Messofanego]

This movie broke me completely - Takahata's emotional intelligence has left me broken in all of his films (well perhaps except from Pom Poko).

For me, Kaguya was what you said, a reflection on the pathos of existence. Kaguya discovers in the end that life itself is an incredible achievement - all life, in all forms and sentiments.

The director sends a message at the end of his life's work: every breath is your dying one, and all your suffering and joy constitute the most precious gift in the universe - that of simply existing and living, and experiencing life in all it's forms.

Agreed.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

Frankly, I just wish more people would become exposed to Takahata's films. There's a LOT to talk about, and frankly, I see him as some kind of humanistic visionary force akin to Terrence Malick, just without the over indulgence and no questionable films in his roster (all of his films are excellent-to-masterpiece efforts).

I'm thankful as a human being that Studio Ghibli ends in Kaguya (Marnie is such a lesser film than Miyazaki's and Takahata's efforts), I am extremely thankful that such a poem about life is how Ghibli ends with. But on the other hand, there is literally noone to fill Takahata's shoes in the world. I feel like his passing an artist, is a tragedy

I still think about the last frame of Kaguya. What is it about? A reminiscence of Kaguya herself? A "the circle will continue" message?

 

[DanielMann]

Frankly, I just wish more people would become exposed to Takahata's films. There's a LOT to talk about, and frankly, I see him as some kind of humanistic visionary force akin to Terrence Malick, just without the over indulgence and no questionable films in his roster (all of his films are excellent-to-masterpiece efforts).

I'm thankful as a human being that Studio Ghibli ends in Kaguya (Marnie is such a lesser film than Miyazaki's and Takahata's efforts), I am extremely thankful that such a poem about life is how Ghibli ends with. But on the other hand, there is literally noone to fill Takahata's shoes in the world. I feel like his passing an artist, is a tragedy

I still think about the last frame of Kaguya. What is it about? A reminiscence of Kaguya herself? A "the circle will continue" message?

Mmmm that's a bit unfair, I actually liked Marnie quite a bit. Sure it doesn't live up to Miyazaki or Takahata, but it is a poignant little tale of catharsis and forgiveness that I think holds its own. I quite liked Marnie and would definitely recommend it to anyone here.

If Marnie is the last film then I think it's an incredibly good film to go out with. In fact, I would say it's been a good little trifecta for the company, maybe not at the box office but in terms of quality it has been.

The director sends a message at the end of his life's work: every breath is your dying one, and all your suffering and joy constitute the most precious gift in the universe - that of simply existing and living, and experiencing life in all it's forms.

That's what I took from it. I got to be honest here, I actually wasn't completely broken by this film as everyone else seems to be here. I felt it was a bittersweet feeling that it left me with. Unlike Grave which just ripped the heart out of me and stomped on it a few dozen times, this didn't have the same effect and I think it is because of that message that is conveyed. It was far more bittersweet to me than it was downright tragic.

With that said, it still didn't dethrone Only Yesterday for being my favourite Takahata film Only Yesterday still remains on top of the pile, with regards to Takahata.

 

[Messofanego]

When I left the cinema and was talking about the movie with my sister, I mentioned that if Ghibli went on a hiatus or stopped making movies, Kaguya would be a perfect note to end out on.

 

[Ultima_5]

I saw it last weekend in the cinema, just before watching the Ghibli documentary ('The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness').

It is extremely good, and that is a very good post OP.

I really enjoyed this documentary.

The movie this thread is about on the other hand was ok.... I really didn't like the ending. I understand what the OP was getting at, but in my eyes it was very abrupt and felt rushed

When I left the cinema and was talking about the movie with my sister, I mentioned that if Ghibli went on a hiatus or stopped making movies, Kaguya would be a perfect note to end out on.

pretty sure they had one more come out after that, but i'm not sure how good it was

 

[manzoman96]

Wonderfully written first post, OP. I've yet to see the movie but I want to soon.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

Mmmm that's a bit unfair, I actually liked Marnie quite a bit. Sure it doesn't live up to Miyazaki or Takahata, but it is a poignant little tale of catharsis and forgiveness that I think holds its own. I quite liked Marnie and would definitely recommend it to anyone here.

If Marnie is the last film then I think it's an incredibly good film to go out with. In fact, I would say it's been a good little trifecta for the company, maybe not at the box office but in terms of quality it has been.



That's what I took from it. I got to be honest here, I actually wasn't completely broken by this film as everyone else seems to be here. I felt it was a bittersweet feeling that it left me with. Unlike Grave which just ripped the heart out of me and stomped on it a few dozen times, this didn't have the same effect and I think it is because of that message that is conveyed. It was far more bittersweet to me than it was downright tragic.

With that said, it still didn't dethrone Only Yesterday for being my favourite Takahata film Only Yesterday still remains on top of the pile, with regards to Takahata.

To be completely honest myself, I have only watched only half of Marnie so maybe I should not yet criticize it. But I find that the Wind Rises and Kaguya are very important films for animation, and Marnie comes off as somewhat conventional when compared.

As for the ending of Kaguya, I was incredibly emotional throughout the film. I watched it in a French theater, gf translating subs here and there, and the gravity of the situation affected my experience - I'm a massive Ghibli fan, I love Takahata's work, and I knew this would probably be my last theater experience and get together with a creator that resonates deeply with me. As it is - It was difficult to swallow the ending, because it was the end of Studio Ghibli.

Only Yesterday is my favorite Takahata film as well - I can watch the movie any time of day and I get teary eyed each time.

 

[Messofanego]

To be completely honest myself, I have only watched only half of Marnie so maybe I should not yet criticize it. But I find that the Wind Rises and Kaguya are very important films for animation, and Marnie comes off as somewhat conventional when compared.

As for the ending of Kaguya, I was incredibly emotional throughout the film. I watched it in a French theater, gf translating subs here and there, and the gravity of the situation affected my experience - I'm a massive Ghibli fan, I love Takahata's work, and I knew this would probably be my last theater experience and get together with a creator that resonates deeply with me. As it is - It was difficult to swallow the ending, because it was the end of Studio Ghibli.

Only Yesterday is my favorite Takahata film as well - I can watch the movie any time of day and I get teary eyed each time.

I need to see Only Yesterday, thanks for mentioning it.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

I need to see Only Yesterday, thanks for mentioning it.

Just try to go fresh in the movie, as in Kaguya. Do not read ANYTHING about it, just go blind and enjoy the experience. It's different than in Kaguya but features the same kind of incredible sensitivity.

It's so weird that Takahata is so able to look into the female psyche, and at the same time his motifs are accepted and resonating beyond genders.

 

[thequickandthedead]

It annoys me how Miyazaki is pretty much seen as the sole guy behind Studio Ghibli. I'd say Takahata's films are on par with if not better than Miyazaki's.

 

[Messofanego]

Just try to go fresh in the movie, as in Kaguya. Do not read ANYTHING about it, just go blind and enjoy the experience. It's different than in Kaguya but features the same kind of incredible sensitivity.

It's so weird that Takahata is so able to look into the female psyche, and at the same time his motifs are accepted and resonating beyond genders.

Will do

 

[Kinokou]

As someone who became intrigued by the film thanks to your post and regretfully read the ending spoiler; does that lessen the enjoyment of the film or is it more about the journey/execution?

Also the part about your cousins finding Totoro boring was just sad. I hope that is just an individual case and not part of a greater trend moving forward.

Honestly I might have enjoyed it more if someone had explained me the deeper meaning of everything before I got to see it.

I wrote a giant post about it, but the movie's ending is an example of "mono no aware". The point is that

Spoiler

this is a cycle that has happened before, and will presumably happen again, and that we must come to turns with boy the joys of life and its subsequent sorrows.

But that just makes it even more depressing. I'll try looking up your post.

As for Crocodile and Messofanego all I can say is that the ending could have saved the film from my personal disapproval and stop me from telling people to not see it. In a way my angry reaction is probably stronger than what I would have felt if it had a happier ending so it certainly has an impact.

I appreciate reading the analysis here but I can't just change my experience and go out and yell that this was a great film that I enjoyed. Hopefully all the discussion and revelations here have helped to educate me and I won't take so badly to it the next time someone tries to make their good point with a terribly frustratingly depressing movie.

 

[genjiZERO]

the title is a little spoilery.

 

[firehawk12]

Just try to go fresh in the movie, as in Kaguya. Do not read ANYTHING about it, just go blind and enjoy the experience. It's different than in Kaguya but features the same kind of incredible sensitivity.

It's so weird that Takahata is so able to look into the female psyche, and at the same time his motifs are accepted and resonating beyond genders.

It annoys me how Miyazaki is pretty much seen as the sole guy behind Studio Ghibli. I'd say Takahata's films are on par with if not better than Miyazaki's.

Only Yesterday is Ghibli's best film!

This movie broke me completely - Takahata's emotional intelligence has left me broken in all of his films (well perhaps except from Pom Poko).

For me, Kaguya was what you said, a reflection on the pathos of existence. Kaguya discovers in the end that life itself is an incredible achievement - all life, in all forms and sentiments.

The director sends a message at the end of his life's work: every breath is your dying one, and all your suffering and joy constitute the most precious gift in the universe - that of simply existing and living, and experiencing life in all it's forms.

Yeah, and its' funny, because it serves as such a nice companion piece to Kaze Tachinu, which is also about the cycle of life.

(That said, at least Yamadas is a "happy" Takahata film!)

Honestly I might have enjoyed it more if someone had explained me the deeper meaning of everything before I got to see it.

But that just makes it even more depressing. I'll try looking up your post.

As for Crocodile and Messofanego all I can say is that the ending could have saved the film from my personal disapproval and stop me from telling people to not see it. In a way my angry reaction is probably stronger than what I would have felt if it had a happier ending so it certainly has an impact.

I appreciate reading the analysis here but I can't just change my experience and go out and yell that this was a great film that I enjoyed. Hopefully all the discussion and revelations here have helped to educate me and I won't take so badly to it the next time someone tries to make their good point with a terribly frustratingly depressing movie.

Here was my post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=144630571&postcount=4093

Ultimately, it's a very "Japanese" way of looking at life, which doesn't really exist in the West. You grow old, you change, you ultimately die. But that's fine because you have kids, or even if you don't, life will continue without you... as it should. It encourages you to be engaged in the present, and recognizing but not lingering too much on the past, since you understand you are always living in a transient moment.

 

[Loofy]

I watched this movie a couple months ago and wrote a pretty lengthy post on it which pretty much agreed with the OP and most posters in this thread. I don't think it choked me up as much as some other people here but there is no denying the movie was superlative

I mean the point of the movie wasn't for Kaguya to "win" but rather exemplify how terrible society was in this aspect in a variety of ways (from a loving father who thinks he's doing what's best for his daughter but is actually fucking up to those damnable nobles) and how, ironically, the moon people who saw themselves as better than Earthings, were really no better in how they treated Kaguya.

Yup.

Spoiler

She went from nobles, to the emperor, and then God was her final suitor.

Also notice how Sutemaru..

Spoiler

..was free to leave his wife because he's a man. And we we're led to believe that could have been the 'happy' ending.

 

[Messofanego]

Only Yesterday is Ghibli's best film!


Yeah, and its' funny, because it serves as such a nice companion piece to Kaze Tachinu, which is also about the cycle of life.

(That said, at least Yamadas is a "happy" Takahata film!)



Here was my post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=144630571&postcount=4093

Ultimately, it's a very "Japanese" way of looking at life, which doesn't really exist in the West. You grow old, you change, you ultimately die. But that's fine because you have kids, or even if you don't, life will continue without you... as it should. It encourages you to be engaged in the present, and recognizing but not lingering too much on the past, since you understand you are always living in a transient moment.

Brilliant post, that was a great read and really nice pictures. Guess the home release is out in some places.

 

[Messofanego]

Yup.

Spoiler

She went from nobles, to the emperor, and then God was her final suitor.

Also notice how Sutemaru..

Spoiler

..was free to leave his wife because he's a man. And we we're led to believe that could have been the 'happy' ending.

I forgot that second detail, good catch.

 

[Diabelli]

Brilliant post, that was a great read

I thought I would just show some love for that post, too.

 

[Usobuko]

Only Yesterday is Ghibli's best film!

Damn, now I want to watch Kaguya even more.

 

[BorkBork]

Urgh there's a local screening tonight but I can't make it. Hopefully I can catch it one of these days...

Only Yesterday is Ghibli's best film!

I'm inclined to agree, ignoring my nostalgia for Nausicaa because I saw it when I was a child. Did a piece on Only Yesterday a few years ago.

 

[DanielMann]

It annoys me how Miyazaki is pretty much seen as the sole guy behind Studio Ghibli. I'd say Takahata's films are on par with if not better than Miyazaki's.

Especially here in the West, Takahata gets no love and its a real shame too. When you say Ghibli most people pretty much just think Miyazaki, or so it would seem. You'd be surprised how often I hear "Grave of the Fireflies" as an answer for "Which Miyazaki film do you love the most?" Even though its not one of Miyazaki's.

Only Yesterday is Ghibli's best film!

I wouldn't go that far...at least not for me. It's my favourite Takahata film without question, but I would still say either Princess Mononoke or even My Neighbor Totoro takes the place as "Best Ghibli Film"...at least as far as I'm concerned. Certainly is not the case for everyone, as I'm aware

(That said, at least Yamadas is a "happy" Takahata film!)

Have you seen Chie the Brat? I like Chie the Brat quite a bit and its one of his less depressing pieces of work In fact, there are some things in it that might take you by surprise with just how comedic Takahata can be.

I mean the point of the movie wasn't for Kaguya to "win" but rather exemplify how terrible society was in this aspect in a variety of ways (from a loving father who thinks he's doing what's best for his daughter but is actually fucking up to those damnable nobles) and how, ironically, the moon people who saw themselves as better than Earthings, were really no better in how they treated Kaguya.

I'm not sure about that last part. The way I saw the film was something of a cautionary tale about taking life for granted.

The film is, as the ending very clearly brings full circle, about using your time on earth well and living your life to the fullest. Death comes for you without sympathy, the universe is indifferent. In the face of this you must live your life to the fullest and not let others guide your life in a direction you don't want it to go. You have to enjoy life while you can. See, this is why I don't think it hit me as hard as what it did for most people here. I took from it that the outlook was that this world is imperfect, but there is also beauty to be found within this imperfect world of ours. Don't take it for granted. Don't shackle it and don't restrain it. Live your life to your fullest. Death will one day come and that is an inevitability that we all have face, but don't take what you have right now for granted.

The father, as well intentioned and loving as he was, took it for granted in his pursuit for Royal status. The suitors took it for granted. The mother did not take it for granted. Maybe the movie really is just saying don't take the beauty of life for granted.

At least that's what I took from it.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

I'm not sure about that last part. The way I saw the film was something of a cautionary tale about taking life for granted.

The film is, as the ending very clearly brings full circle, about using your time on earth well and living your life to the fullest. Death comes for you without sympathy, the universe is indifferent. In the face of this you must live your life to the fullest and not let others guide your life in a direction you don't want it to go. You have to enjoy life while you can. See, this is why I don't think it hit me as hard as what it did for most people here. I took from it that the outlook was that this world is imperfect, but there is also beauty to be found within this imperfect world of ours. Don't take it for granted. Don't shackle it and don't restrain it. Live your life to your fullest. Death will one day come and that is an inevitability that we all have face, but don't take what you have right now for granted.

The father, as well intentioned and loving as he was, took it for granted in his pursuit for Royal status. The suitors took it for granted. The mother did not take it for granted. Maybe the movie really is just saying don't take the beauty of life for granted.

At least that's what I took from it.

To be honest, this is what broke me. The movie hides an incredible poignant layer underneath its fairytale status. Takahata has been pursuing this theme of Mono no Aware throughout his career - you can see it flowing through Grave of the Fireflies, Pom Poko, Only Yesterday and the Yamadas, ever so gracefully.

It's an incredible philosophical statement, a bittersweet stance on life and Kaguya ends on one ultimate and final expression of this statement, an artistic farewell from the director.

 

[GCX]

It annoys me how Miyazaki is pretty much seen as the sole guy behind Studio Ghibli. I'd say Takahata's films are on par with if not better than Miyazaki's.

Miyazaki's movies are much more accessible to general audiences, that's pretty much the reason for it. Takahata has directed many amazing movies but films like Only Yesterday, Pom Poko, My Neighbors the Yamadas aren't mainstream movies.

It's an incredible philosophical statement, a bittersweet stance on life and Kaguya ends on one ultimate and final expression of this statement, an artistic farewell from the director.

Unlike Miyazaki, Takahata hasn't officially retired though. With his working pace a new feature lenght film seems pretty unlikely but he said just recently that he has a new short movie in mind.

 

[Xe4]

Good movie, not my favorite of Ghibli or even Takahata, but still really good. The ending was fantastic, but there was way too much filler leading up to it. That's really more of a problem with adapting a centuries old story than Takahata's directing ability though. I liked the animation quite a bit, as it is very well done, and different than what Ghibli or even most anime will do.

That being said,

People who pine for Disney and Pixar to be the saviours of animation, to be more progressive, mature, more socially relevant, have been looking in the wrong place. Studio Ghibli has been that right place for quite a while, and if movies like Spirited Away, Grave of the Fireflies (same director here), or The Wind Rises among others haven't made that obvious, then The Tale of Princess Kaguya makes that abundantly clear especially for people who have hidden hopes for Disney/Pixar.

I don't think anyone who wants Disney/Pixar to be more mature, talk less down to children, and take more risks would argue that Ghibli is anything less than amazing. In fact many people who wan't Pixar do to great things often point to Ghibli as making children movies that don't talk down to children. Ghibli is great, and will always be great, but that doesn't mean we can't also want Disney/Pixar to expand the genre/themes of their works.

Completely relying on Gibli to make these type movies is going to end you in trouble. One, they are probably going to stop making movies in the near future (When Marie was There is their last planned movie at the moment). Two, Ghibli, is a fantastic studio but they are restricted to a range of different ways of expressing animation; if American animators would start to make more mature movies, you would see things come out that Ghibli could never have made, simply for the fact that it is coming from a different director, and a different viewpoint on the world.

 

[Ratrat]

Also notice how Sutemaru..

Spoiler

..was free to leave his wife because he's a man. And we we're led to believe that could have been the 'happy' ending.

Really? I laughed at what a piece of shit he was at that scene, when the baby was all 'daddy!' Told myself it was a very 'in the moment' thing and he wouldn't actually...

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I finally just got around to watching this. I thought it was absolutely phenomenal. Without a doubt one of Ghibli's best.

On the topic of the dub, I thought Chloë Grace Moretz did a very good job as Kaguya - really, the entire voice cast was good save for James Caan who I thought was awful. I have no idea what was going on during the dubbing process but they should have had him redo his lines or, preferably, just recast him because his delivery was entirely stilted. At times it even sounded like each word coming out of his mouth was recorded individually and then put together in the studio.

Also, the "birds, grass, bugs, flowers, trees" song sounded kind of weird in English. I feel like they should have gone with a less literal translation so that it would have flowed better.

 

[Envelope]

I finally just got around to watching this. I thought it was absolutely phenomenal. Without a doubt one of Ghibli's best.

On the topic of the dub, I thought Chloë Grace Moretz did a very good job as Kaguya - really, the entire voice cast was good save for James Caan who I thought was awful. I have no idea what was going on during the dubbing process but they should have had him redo his lines or, preferably, just recast him because his delivery was entirely stilted. At times it even sounded like each word coming out of his mouth was recorded individually and then put together in the studio.

Also, the "birds, grass, bugs, flowers, trees" song sounded kind of weird in English. I feel like they should have gone with a less literal translation so that it would have flowed better.

songs are really difficult to carry over well, which sucks when a voice cast is otherwise more than competent.

 

[CharminUltra]

My personal Oscar winner. So good.

 

[PInk Tape]

Thanks OP for bringing this movie to my attention. Now I want to see it

 

[Loofy]

I finally just got around to watching this. I thought it was absolutely phenomenal. Without a doubt one of Ghibli's best.

On the topic of the dub, I thought Chloë Grace Moretz did a very good job as Kaguya - really, the entire voice cast was good save for James Caan who I thought was awful. I have no idea what was going on during the dubbing process but they should have had him redo his lines or, preferably, just recast him because his delivery was entirely stilted. At times it even sounded like each word coming out of his mouth was recorded individually and then put together in the studio.

Also, the "birds, grass, bugs, flowers, trees" song sounded kind of weird in English. I feel like they should have gone with a less literal translation so that it would have flowed better.

Chloe pretty much based her acting on the characters facial expressions. Im not sure if it was chloe that decided that or disney but its terrible. She always sounds so slow and calm like shes in a library.

As for the singing it would have been better if they left it in japanese. Movies often have songs in other languages it doesnt bother anyone.

 

[Dascu]

Apologies for the slight bump.

Just got done watching this. I was fighting back the tears during the last half hour or so. Heartachingly beautiful film.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Apologies for the slight bump.

Just got done watching this. I was fighting back the tears during the last half hour or so. Heartachingly beautiful film.

Watched it last night and I probably wasn't in the right state of mind but I know that this movie would make me cry at any other time. It was incredible.

 

[Barajas_201]

One of my favorite Gibli films, the moon people song is so mystical, best part of the movie.