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The Truth Is Catching Up With Tesla (WSJ)
- Thread starter Guevara
- Start date
plagiarize
Banned
If you weren't expecting serious issues making the cars at volume early on, you weren't paying attention to the Model S or Model X launches. Sure, they claimed they'd resolved the issues that plagued the X launch, but then, when the X launched they claimed they'd resolved the issues that plagued the S launch.
It will be fine. People will eventually get their cars... but yeah. This isn't remotely surprising given their history of very bumpy launches.
It will be fine. People will eventually get their cars... but yeah. This isn't remotely surprising given their history of very bumpy launches.
Living the Dream
Member
You're going to love it!
What is a "hot market" supposed to mean? There's roughly one competitor with the model 3 at the moment and that's the bolt, which they aren't manufacturing in large volumes.
People have been waking up to this for a long time. I imagine if I looked I could find WSJ articles talking about production issues every year since 2010. By waking up to it do you mean the stock is absurdly high right now?
GM shut down their Bolt plant recently and have no plans to manufacture it in high volumes. They're making like 30,000 a year.
Has anyone made sure Teslas are 100% vegan?
One of Tesla's biggest competitors right now.
https://electrek.co/2017/05/05/chevy-bolt-ev-europe-ampera-e/
Trickster
Member
So the truth that's catching up withe Tesla is the one that has held true, and everyone has known about, since forever? Basically that targets and numbers that Elon Musk say are always gonna be exagerated by a lot.
I mean Elon Musk is basically synonymous with making outlandish promises at this point. If you're someone that is surprised by Tesla not delivering the numbers that Elon have said, then boy oh boy will you be even more surprised when Space X doesn't land on mars twice in 2022 with their new mega rocket.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that people should just ignore Tesla's failure to deliver on what they've said. But really at this point you should never ever ever take anything that Elon Musk says regarding deadlines or production targets at face value.
I mean Elon Musk is basically synonymous with making outlandish promises at this point. If you're someone that is surprised by Tesla not delivering the numbers that Elon have said, then boy oh boy will you be even more surprised when Space X doesn't land on mars twice in 2022 with their new mega rocket.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that people should just ignore Tesla's failure to deliver on what they've said. But really at this point you should never ever ever take anything that Elon Musk says regarding deadlines or production targets at face value.
Hesemonni
Banned
Just watched a Doug DeMuro vid on Chevy Bolt which to me seems like a competent car. I mean, if I were in the market for an EV I'd grab a Bolt instead of waiting a couple of years for a chance to buy the Model 3. Apparently there's plenty of stock in the US and like you posted very little in Europe. What gives?
Also, they really screwed the naming of their vehicles EV both in the US and in Europe.
But that's past the topic which is Tesla.
badcrumble
Member
He should spend fewer resources and time turning himself into a celebrity and more on getting people to love his actual products.
You mean...his twitter account?
plagiarize
Banned
Well they also announced that they're set to unveil a full slate of EV's in the near future. The Bolt is only one part of their EV plans.
Cymbal Head
Banned
This is clearly a case of the Illuminati intervening in the production of electric cars worldwide.
SoundofSilence
Member
This really isn't true. Audi, BMW and Mercedes all have electric cars coming between 2018-2020. Audi's first E-tron car will be released next year.
HellforLeather
Member
People will get their cars but Im not sure it will be fine. People banging away by hand trying to put these things together could spell nightmare scenarios in the reliability department down the line.
Did the Model S or the X have reports of these same production issues? Those cars have had tons of reliability problems (the early ones at least). Serious problems with the 3 are practically guaranteed at this point if this report is true.
LordKasual
Banned
Dozens of automakers around the world can do it with out all the snags. Tesla will have to be able to in order to compete.
It is a decent car but the first key is that they really don't want to sell it. They'd rather make their traditional ICE cars. Tesla is also a really strong brand when it comes to electric cars. Features wise it's styling is rather basic. No frunk! No OTA updates, no prospect of autonomy, no fast charging/ inadequate charging infrastructure etc...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109627_fast-charging-a-2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-electric-car
HellforLeather
Member
Well even if you've been paying attention to Tesla's history alone, being an early adopter is never a good idea. You did the right thing.
Vermillion
Banned
I... what?
People appreciate the great stuff he does. Doesn't mean this isn't a monumental fuck up. Why does every Elon thread have to go in this direction?
So your solution to Tesla not being able to produce that $35k electric car you want is....to spend an additional $100k?
Fantastic recommendation. I mean, you might as well get a Panamera Turbo. Or an S63. If you're spending $150k on a car, God knows you're not buying it to save money on gas.
That in itself isn't particularly damaging to Tesla. The important stuff is the details. Like at what price, with what features, in what markets, at what volumes. A lot of news articles hype this stuff without a clear understanding of the details. Volvo's electrification plan recently for example including hybrids. That's not to say there's going to be no competition but for now there basically isn't any.
Those reports are exactly why I prefer my Volt to the Bolt. I might not get as much range with the battery, but at least I still have a great fuel economy car when the generator kicks in.
Jezbollah
Member
Because there seems to be a lot of people here who have quite the hatred for Elon Musk, and rejoice in any negative news that involves him.
llien
Member
For perspective:
1) Typical car factory can pump out about 1000 cars per day
2) That is Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) or even Hybrid cars
3) Hybrids are the most complicated to produce*, then come diesel ICEs, then petrol ICEs and last electric cars**
*not counting hydrogen ones
** adding stuff like "auto pilot" surely adds complexity, but it's mostly about development, than manufacturing
"We cant' produce enough 3's, because we have production bottlenecks" statement hardly makes sense, it's basically like saying "no no, it's not something else".
An example of something else would be not being able to produce it and not lose (too much) money.
1) Typical car factory can pump out about 1000 cars per day
2) That is Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) or even Hybrid cars
3) Hybrids are the most complicated to produce*, then come diesel ICEs, then petrol ICEs and last electric cars**
*not counting hydrogen ones
** adding stuff like "auto pilot" surely adds complexity, but it's mostly about development, than manufacturing
"We cant' produce enough 3's, because we have production bottlenecks" statement hardly makes sense, it's basically like saying "no no, it's not something else".
An example of something else would be not being able to produce it and not lose (too much) money.
Jezbollah
Member
For context, Tesla have delivered 47,000 cars in the first half of the year
https://www.recode.net/2017/7/3/15916730/tesla-delivery-goals-second-quarter-2017
So wait youre theory is there are no production bottlenecks and they just realized it costs too much so theyre...making less of them?
Huh?
sooperkool
Member
To your previous question, people are waking up to Tesla's insane speculative price, not that the company is any good.
That's not true either. GM heavily invested into their EV department during their 2008 restructuring because they knew that their margins won't be in gas guzzlers.
You can see this trend in both Ford and GM: smaller, more efficient vehicles -- ICE, hybrid, or EV.
There's also a Wired article on GM's development of EVs but I'm on mobile right now.
I would say it's more rational analysis than irrational rage in this thread.
Can Tesla eventually deliver? Sure. Will the rest of the industry stay still? No.
That's not true either. GM heavily invested into their EV department during their 2008 restructuring because they knew that their margins won't be in gas guzzlers.
You can see this trend in both Ford and GM: smaller, more efficient vehicles -- ICE, hybrid, or EV.
There's also a Wired article on GM's development of EVs but I'm on mobile right now.
I would say it's more rational analysis than irrational rage in this thread.
Can Tesla eventually deliver? Sure. Will the rest of the industry stay still? No.
llien
Member
I'm saying that things do not add up and this is one possible explanation, certainly not only one.
It doesnt add up that theyre having trouble? Because you dont think its complicated enough? I sure wish only the hardest things in the world went wrong.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Sounds like he thinks he's running a Kickstarter campaign.... as this would be par for that course.
The fact they aren't making them because the production line isn't ready isn't the bad part of this at all... it's the lack of transparency to investors and customers that's the problem.
Which... oddly enough sounds like your normal everyday troubled Kickstarter campaign.
The fact they aren't making them because the production line isn't ready isn't the bad part of this at all... it's the lack of transparency to investors and customers that's the problem.
Which... oddly enough sounds like your normal everyday troubled Kickstarter campaign.
Sure it is, they made it because they had to. Margins don't seem that great!
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2016/11/30/gm-zev/94660092/
Hes been posting about the production slowdown on twitter for awhile. Even showed video.
Yet again, another misleading article. The Bolt is first gen and hasn't gone retooling and/or optimizations. The 2nd gen Volt is breakeven I believe, and it was released five years after the original with significant improvements.
Even the first Prius was a loss.
mmazurkiewicz
Member
he ran a kickstarter campaign last year when he got thousands of suckers to drop deposits
So you're saying GM is releasing a poorly optimized car at a loss. Sounds a lot like Tesla!
Only stupid people put deposits on things I dont want!
Im better than they are!
No, you're circularizing your own point. GM and other manufacturers improved over time. Tesla is still behind, and is still in production hell after years of manufacturing.
Edit: Tesla needs to demonstrate that they have an achievable growth plan, or else they will fall by the wayside. Judging by their recent woes of hand assembly and other production woes, things are not going to look up for them.