entremet
Member
Except it's not just that if you consider the battery infrastructure and vertical integration aspect.
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The Truth Is Catching Up With Tesla (WSJ)
- Thread starter Guevara
- Start date
Except it's not just that if you consider the battery infrastructure and vertical integration aspect.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
Dumb person's idea of a smart person is just another lying republican ceo. No new news here yall.
Yeah and in 2003 they didn't really manufacture anything.
When was the last car company that mass produces cars started?
NotoriousPUG
Member
Model 3s will be a success, Tesla will be fine, and all this will be forgotten in the near future. How many times will we hear this about a Musk project and he pulls it off? Enough times that Im not doubting him on this one.
RustyNails
Member
Bolt looks like something I shit out in the morning after a heavy dinner.
No fucking way you see me driving that ghastly metal scrap.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
It gets 238 miles on a charge and you don't have to worry about GM going out of business.
mmazurkiewicz
Member
what if all those employees they recently fired were plants from the ICE industry to sabotage the Model 3 launch and god Musk caught wind of the plan and iced them from his company?
What if you didn't shit post?
TyphoonStruggle
Member
WSJ just looking to get clicks. #FakeNews
Manufacturing at this scale is really really friggin' hard. Deadlines are always subject to change. Musk takes so many high risk projects not all of them are gonna succeed spectacularly.
A lot of deadlines are somewhat arbitrary. But setting deadlines and goals are useful for kicking your work into high productivity mode.
Journalists gonna write like they know a lick about engineering or business. Lol.
Hell, I joined a kickstarter for the Das Keyboard 5Q. I think they're like a year behind schedule or something. ITS JUST A KEYBOARD too. (Also from a well known producer of high quality keyboards)
Manufacturing at this scale is really really friggin' hard. Deadlines are always subject to change. Musk takes so many high risk projects not all of them are gonna succeed spectacularly.
A lot of deadlines are somewhat arbitrary. But setting deadlines and goals are useful for kicking your work into high productivity mode.
Journalists gonna write like they know a lick about engineering or business. Lol.
Hell, I joined a kickstarter for the Das Keyboard 5Q. I think they're like a year behind schedule or something. ITS JUST A KEYBOARD too. (Also from a well known producer of high quality keyboards)
elrechazado
Banned
I don't think you understand how publicly traded companies work, why this is a story, or why Tesla's manufacturing targets aren't the same as the stretch goals on your favorite Kickstarter campaign.
TheRedSnifit
Member
They're building cars by hand. They haven't even achieved automation yet. Which, you know, fine, but maybe it's morally dubious to promise the people giving you money figures that you can't possibly hope to achieve.
Unless Elon Musk is a dolt or his underlings are lying to him, there's no way to spin this. There's no possible way he looked at their production last months and said "Yeah, we can hit 1500."
You're being deliberately obtuse if you think other manufacturers regularly (key word) miss their publicly-announced production goals by 80%.
They aren't really questioning the business, they are questioning Musk's public statements about his publicly traded company.
schwabdizzle
Banned
I feel like Elon Musk is going to have to eventually focus on other areas and make automobiles a second thought. As soon as the other major automakers that have been doing it for decades refine their electric car technology it's going to make Tesla cars look like tier b vehicles in the electric car business.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
This. Straight up lying to investors is skirting close to criminal behavior. The Model 3 has not been released, yet....
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2020-polestar-p1-photos-and-info-news
Volvo's are probably the only brand more popular in my city than Tesla. Look at the numbers they're pushing on their upcoming electric sports car.
Tesla about to get it's lunch eaten.
Hari Seldon
Member
High volume automated manufacturing is harder than designing an electric car lol. I give Musk props for attempting it though.
llien
Member
People should stop sounding like Tesla is the only way for EV vehicles to succeed (or fail).
Giving credit where it is due, Musk's did manage to do what others deemed impossible and demonstrated that luxury electric vehicles are viable here and today.
At the moment it is hard to find even small car manufacturer that doesn't have a bunch of electric vehicles in the pipeline. VW just days ago promised it would have EV version of every model available (in about a decade
). Most are cautions, but for good reasons: inherent EV problems re still not solved.Let me name them:1) It still takes loooong time to charge, battery swapping tech didn't fly, fast charging infrastructure is very scarce and even in areas, where available, it wouldn't be able to cover demand once EV become mass products (stop being cool gadgets you can drive)
2) Existing power plants do not have enough capacity to essentially double production (at least) and it isn't something you can do over couple of years either
3) Battery production... there would be need for dozens of more "gigafactories"
Solution to #1 is conceivable only if car manufacturers cooperate, which I don't see happening at the moment, at least not with Tesla, or if government gets involved, which hasn't happened yet.
There do not seem to be plans to solve #2, at the moment, either.
Nintendo is a publicly traded company and their games get delayed all the time. Blizzard is publicly traded with Activision, their games get delayed all the time. Apple is publicly traded and the white iPhone 4 came out months late. Making things is hard. Delays happen. It temporarily effects the stock price or it doesn't, but lets not pretend Tesla is committing fraud because there is a manufacturing delay.
Hesemonni
Banned
I cut myself reading this post. So edgy
TrumanBurbank
Member
What the Fuck.
He could but then all the employees would have to sleep four hours a day if they weren't already.
Circle Jerk
Member
its actually impressive how badly you both missed that posters point and the articles point.
1500 is not a lot of cars for an automated line. Missing by a whopping 80%! can easily happen if a supplier has problems like was linked before. That's why they start low. Delays can happen and they aren't criminal.
The money people literally don't care as long as it's dealt with. The same holds for other automakers.
Are established automakers also criminals for delaying production?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...s/news-story/86732b2ebc7681432f798a05b945dafc
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...holdup-means-new-englanders-miss-out-on-mirai
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...t-of-mexico-plant-to-early-2020-idUSKBN1AQ06N
They should have known about these issues ahead of time correct?
Chezzymann
Member
But elons super cool cause hes gonna take us to Mars and give us satellite internet oh and that hyperloop thing
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Did you actually just use "fake news" with a straight face? Good way to completely invalidate anything coming out of your mouth.
I'm still planning on getting a model 3, but recent production problems have given me pause. Within the next few years there will be many more options in the EV market.
Right now the supercharger network (and good style) is what really differentiates Tesla to me. If VW can create a similar or larger network then they will become a serious player in the market. Their electric crossover concept looks nice.
Right now the supercharger network (and good style) is what really differentiates Tesla to me. If VW can create a similar or larger network then they will become a serious player in the market. Their electric crossover concept looks nice.
Today, in Tesla news:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/tesla-firings-former-and-current-employees-allege-layoffs.html
Tesla is trying to disguise layoffs by calling the widespread terminations performance related, allege several current and former employees.
On Friday, the San Jose Mercury News first reported that Tesla had dismissed an estimated 400 to 700 employees. That number represents between 1 and 2 percent of its entire workforce.
But one former employee, citing internal information shared by a manager, said the total number fired is higher than 700 at this point.
...
"Seems like performance has nothing to do with it," one Tesla employee told CNBC under the condition of anonymity. "Those terminated were generally the highest paid in their position," this person said, suggesting that the firings were driven by cost-cutting.
On Friday, the San Jose Mercury News first reported that Tesla had dismissed an estimated 400 to 700 employees. That number represents between 1 and 2 percent of its entire workforce.
But one former employee, citing internal information shared by a manager, said the total number fired is higher than 700 at this point.
...
"Seems like performance has nothing to do with it," one Tesla employee told CNBC under the condition of anonymity. "Those terminated were generally the highest paid in their position," this person said, suggesting that the firings were driven by cost-cutting.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/tesla-firings-former-and-current-employees-allege-layoffs.html
Living the Dream
Member
So I bought a P100D roughly a month ago. If Tesla collapses, how do warranties work? The cost cutting and lagging behind with the 3 has me concerned.
Maedre
Banned
Tesla will mit colapse, all thus fearmongering here is toxic
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
ITT: Missing a production deadline is lying to investors.
If that's your metric for "borderline crime" then you should lock up literally every manager of a software company that ever existed. Production deadlines are missed CONSTANTLY and anyone that knows anything about business OR investment realizes that.
If that's your metric for "borderline crime" then you should lock up literally every manager of a software company that ever existed. Production deadlines are missed CONSTANTLY and anyone that knows anything about business OR investment realizes that.
TrumanBurbank
Member
I bought a Tesla, what happens if an asteroid hits the earth?
ClosingADoor
Member
Things become a bit different when it is the CEO of the company making those claims in public though. When your goal is 1500 next month and you are actually doing about 100 now, that is not missing a deadline. That is painting a better picture then you should towards investors.
I wish I could phone it in and only do 6.7% of my work and call it good. And lie to investors about it and make money off of them.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
A CEO is not a clairvoyant. If they have a production plan that when executed with minimal trouble hits their production target they say they'll hit their production target. In this case the production timeline hit snags due to suppliers missing their production goals. It happens in many industries.
Hell, it happened to Apple just this summer.
Mihos
Gold Member
Well.... at least say what you do drive, so we can shit all over that too.
ClosingADoor
Member
Might be, but there is a fine line between aggressive goals and misleading investors, as the article says. And in this case, you could seriously argue that Musk should have known a bit better how difficult it would be to make that deadline he set.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
And at the same time they might get their production on line and at capacity next week. I would certainly complain as an investor about the delay, but I certainly wouldn't claim I was intentionally mislead. There's a difference between being wrong about something and lying about something. A pretty damn clear difference.
ClosingADoor
Member
That is something only Musk knows of course. But considering he has a track record of being a bit too ambitious with his timelines, with these kind of things he might want to be a bit more careful with communicating those, and what he expects internally.