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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM

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Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Nissan was probably made some boiler plate assurances and replied in typically polite fashion. Manufacturers won't risk a PR war until the dust settles and the long term situation becomes clear.

Anyway, the EU looked into the UK's offer to Nissan and was ok with it, so you can safely infer that it was a very standard "we'll make sure things work out for you" with some mentions towards more funding aiming to reinforce the local supply chain.
 

Bleepey

Member
For fucks sale just admit its economic suicide. Try to get bi partisan support with this, blame Cameron, blame Boris if you need to.
 

kmag

Member
Nissan was probably made some boiler plate assurances and replied in typically polite fashion. Manufacturers won't risk a PR war until the dust settles and the long term situation becomes clear.

Anyway, the EU looked into the UK's offer to Nissan and was ok with it, so you can safely infer that it was a very standard "we'll make sure things work out for you" with some mentions towards more funding aiming to reinforce the local supply chain.

I don't think Nissan had much of a choice but to smile and nod for now, they simply didn't have any other European domestic car facilities in the pipeline in the required timeframe. I mean they could have shifted some work to Renault factories in the theory, but all their eggs where in the Sunderland basket.
 
If we're to take the polls as a reasonable indication of current public mood - support for remaining in the EU is at 54% and for a referendum on the eventual deal is at 46% vs 47% against, up from 39% supporting it in April.
It's hard to imagine the direction of travel being anything but towards more support for those as the reality of the deal becomes clearer as the negotiations carry on and industries begin to react.
So do they just plough on towards it, or do they eventually have to pay attention to the public mood and take some sort of action? What a fucking mess.
 
If we're to take the polls as a reasonable indication of current public mood - support for remaining in the EU is at 54% and for a referendum on the eventual deal is at 46% vs 47% against, up from 39% supporting it in April.
It's hard to imagine the direction of travel being anything but towards more support for those as the reality of the deal becomes clearer as the negotiations carry on and industries begin to react.
So do they just plough on towards it, or do they eventually have to pay attention to the public mood and take some sort of action? What a fucking mess.

My worry is that if they do end up u-turning public mood could just as quickly swing back in the coming years.
 

jelly

Member
Ouch at those car investment numbers. I get the feeling it's going to be non stop bad news as the lid is off and chickens come home to roost as the ripples hit more often and companies see the writing on the wall, they can't give the benefit of doubt now. I think they put the breaks on and hope stupidity wouldn't prevail but the satnav has that area beyond the cliff with no road programmed in.
 

jelly

Member
I'm shocked.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-news-leave-eu-immigration-main-reason-european-union-survey-a7811651.html

Mr Harding added that the BSA survey didn’t question people directly on why they voted the way they did in the referendum, but rather assessed the correlations, which he said offered a more accurate insight.

We found the Leave vote relates to concerns about immigration and education. Many politicians have come out and said it was all about sovereignty and other things, but our findings indicate this isn't the case.

Britain’s vote to leave the EU was the result of widespread anti-immigration sentiment, rather than a wider dissatisfaction with politics, according to a major survey of social attitudes in the UK.

Nearly three-quarters (73 per cent) of those who are worried about immigration voted Leave, compared with 36 per cent of those who did not identify this as a concern, the research found, showing the discrepancy in views about immigration between Remain and Leave voters.

It also reveals that the longer any given voter felt EU migrants should have lived in the UK before qualifying for welfare benefits, the more likely they were to vote to leave the EU.

Meanwhile, 45 per cent of those who trust the Government a great deal or tend to trust it voted to leave, compared with 65 per cent of those who distrust it greatly — marking a less considerable difference and suggesting trust in politicians was less of a driving factor in the vote for Brexit.

concluding that the outcome of the referendum reflected the concern of more “authoritarian”, socially conservative voters in Britain about some of the social consequences of EU membership, most notably immigration.

Two biggest guides to why people voted leave were those most concerned with immigration and those with a lower level of education.

Not shocked.
 

chadskin

Member
I just don't get what May wants to achieve with this. Is she stupid? Seriously, this is a terrible strategy on multiple levels. If the EU-UK negotiations fail, SHE will be the one that's gonna be blamed primarily. And for those past couple of months, she has set up everything in a perfect way to make sure that those negotiations fail.
I can only imagine Barnier banging his had against the nearest wall all the time, because he just can't take this anymore. EU/UK are really lucky that it's apparently not popular to shit on the UK in Germany.
 

jelly

Member
I just don't get what May wants to achieve with this. Is she stupid? Seriously, this is a terrible strategy on multiple levels. If the EU-UK negotiations fail, SHE will be the one that's gonna be blamed primarily. And for those past couple of months, she has set up everything in a perfect way to make sure that those negotiations fail.
I can only imagine Barnier banging his had against the nearest wall all the time, because he just can't take this anymore. EU/UK are really lucky that it's apparently not popular to shit on the UK in Germany.

The secret is, they don't want a deal so they can shape the UK as they see fit, hell or it's scare the shit out of companies and the public during the 2 year negotiations so things get really shitty and they can reverse the whole thing last minute or they are incompetent lunatics who have drank the British Empire kool aid.
 

Xando

Member
I just don't get what May wants to achieve with this. Is she stupid? Seriously, this is a terrible strategy on multiple levels. If the EU-UK negotiations fail, SHE will be the one that's gonna be blamed primarily. And for those past couple of months, she has set up everything in a perfect way to make sure that those negotiations fail.
I can only imagine Barnier banging his had against the nearest wall all the time, because he just can't take this anymore. EU/UK are really lucky that it's apparently not popular to shit on the UK in Germany.
German media is past shitting on the UK. It’s mostly disbelief at what’s happening these days.
 

sammex

Member
Why are we doing this again?

tumblr_osj742r5VU1t0grs4o1_1280.png
 

jelly

Member
This is interesting. Have we been lied to again.

Michael Gove said we are leaving the 1964 London Fisheries Convention which means vessels from France, Belgium, Germany, Ireland and the Netherlands will no longer be able to fish in waters between 6 and 12 miles off the British Coast and that goes for access to their coastal areas as well. Michael Gove also seems to think once out the EU, the UK can extend that to 200 miles which just isn't possible as you would be in encroaching on other countries areas. The UK at this time controls their 6-12 mile area.

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As for the UK fishing fleet. Well, look what the UK government does.

http://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2016/05/15/investigation-big-fish-quota-barons-squeeze-out-small-scale-fishermen/

Small scale fishermen in England are struggling to retain their livelihood, while multi-million pound companies buy up the majority of fishing right, according to a new investigation by Greenpeace.

The investigation revealed that just three companies own nearly two-thirds of England’s fishing quota while some fishermen hoard quota on vessels which never cast a net.

Nearly half of the England and Wales’ quota is held by companies based outside the those countries, despite reforms to the EU’s fisheries policy, which encourage national governments to allocate fishing quota on social and environmental grounds.

The right to fish different species is regulated by the government, which doles out quotas to groups of companies and fishermen known as producer organisations.

While these organisations are intended to work like co-operatives, the investigation has revealed that instead a handful of people control huge swathes of the UK coast.

Just three companies hold 61% of all the fishing rights in England
44% of England and Wales fish is owned by foreign companies
Some fishermen are hoarding up fishing rights on vessels that never cast a net

The findings are raising concerns amongst experts that traditional small-scale fishing is being choked out, leaving coastal communities struggling.

“How anyone, including our own Government can ever claim to meet these criteria when they allow unhindered trading in FQA’s to foreign interests is beyond me,” said Percy

The hoarding of quota risks creating a distorted market in which the price of fish stocks – and access to them – is controlled by just a few companies.

“Despite the FQA Register [which lists who owns the right to stock], there is clearly still a lack of transparency regarding the actual ownership of the UK’s FQA’s.

Not only is this unsettling, especially with regard to fish stocks but because so much is held by so few, they are able to sell these ‘rights’ to whoever and whenever they choose.”

The more you know. Blame misplaced again and I get the feeling some fisherman are clueless or in on it.
 
Presumably the claim to '200 miles' is really referring to that bit that pokes out to the west of the Outer Hebredies? That looks like 200 miles or so. So does the spit out beyond the Scillies.

So says I, anyway.

Also, I absolutely bloody love that the neutral seas are still called 'the high seas'.
 
https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017...ting-leave-may-have-been-an-error/#more-65540

Journalist: Is there anything which could now happen (or not happen) which would make you now wish Leave had not won the referendum result?

Dominic Cummings, the Vote Leave campaign director: Lots! I said before REF[erendum] was dumb idea, other things shdve been tried 1st. In some possible branches of the future leaving will be an error

...

..........

Irrespective of your feelings and thoughts re the EU and the whole paradigm, this is such a clusterfuck.
 

jelly

Member
https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017...ting-leave-may-have-been-an-error/#more-65540

Journalist: Is there anything which could now happen (or not happen) which would make you now wish Leave had not won the referendum result?

Dominic Cummings, the Vote Leave campaign director: Lots! I said before REF[erendum] was dumb idea, other things shdve been tried 1st. In some possible branches of the future leaving will be an error

Don't blame me.

Someone call it off please.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Possibly controversial, but this thread is just a duplicate of UK PoliGAF for the most part - all the same posters, usually the same topics - and the only practical effect is to split the poster base. Isn't it time to lock this thread and or merge them or something?
 

Maledict

Member
Possibly controversial, but this thread is just a duplicate of UK PoliGAF for the most part - all the same posters, usually the same topics - and the only practical effect is to split the poster base. Isn't it time to lock this thread and or merge them or something?

Typical statist response shutting down the free market of ideas!
 
Possibly controversial, but this thread is just a duplicate of UK PoliGAF for the most part - all the same posters, usually the same topics - and the only practical effect is to split the poster base. Isn't it time to lock this thread and or merge them or something?

Brexit is pretty inseparable from UK politics now, so I agree we should just have one thread.
 

Faddy

Banned
Possibly controversial, but this thread is just a duplicate of UK PoliGAF for the most part - all the same posters, usually the same topics - and the only practical effect is to split the poster base. Isn't it time to lock this thread and or merge them or something?

Typical British Imperial mindset. What about our European friends who wish to talk about the ramifications of Brexit for the wider continent without having to wade through the quagmire of domestic British politics.
 

Theonik

Member
Possibly controversial, but this thread is just a duplicate of UK PoliGAF for the most part - all the same posters, usually the same topics - and the only practical effect is to split the poster base. Isn't it time to lock this thread and or merge them or something?
I would like to support the private members bill set before this house by my right honourable friend. I would dub it the 'Act of Thread Union 2017'. I appears to really be a very sensible measure and I am confounded that the people on these front benches have neglected to bring forward such policy.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Possibly controversial, but this thread is just a duplicate of UK PoliGAF for the most part - all the same posters, usually the same topics - and the only practical effect is to split the poster base. Isn't it time to lock this thread and or merge them or something?

Typical British exclusivism. Brexit is not just about British politics. Or do you want us to start posting about our beloved Juncker and Tusk in that thread and steal all of Hunt's thunder? /jk
 

Theonik

Member
Typical British exclusivism. Brexit is not just about British politics. Or do you want us to start posting about our beloved Juncker and Tusk in that thread and steal all of Hunt's thunder? /jk
Brexit means Brexit. It is a means and an end in and on itself.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Typical British Imperial mindset. What about our European friends who wish to talk about the ramifications of Brexit for the wider continent without having to wade through the quagmire of domestic British politics.

They can talk about that in EUPoliGAF, which doesn't exist, because there isn't the market for it. If they're very nice, we'll sell them tariff-free shitposts instead.
 

Theonik

Member
There is of course the option for the UK posters to leave the single thread then we can focus on our own thread without EU interference. We can still negotiate single thread access after the fact, though we are leaving the single thread and freedom of shitpost movement will end. This will allow us to form new shitpost bonds with our American shitposting friends that are today celebrating the anniversary of their high treason against our monarch.
 

frontieruk

Member
There is of course the option for the UK posters to leave the single thread then we can focus on our own thread without EU interference. We can still negotiate single thread access after the fact, though we are leaving the single thread and freedom of shitpost movement will end. This will allow us to form new shitpost bonds with our American shitposting friends that are today celebrating the anniversary of their high treason against our monarch.

Except we're not in the single thread this aren't seeing the benefits of single thread shitposting
 
Perhaps we should have a vote on the matter, but only after the mods have revealed what their deal is. We can't allow modbot to do what she likes with no accountability.

You're joking?! Not another one? For God's sake I can't honestly - I can't stand this.

There's too much politics going on at the moment, why do you need to do it?
 

Kabouter

Member
While this issue obviously dominates British politics, and thus there is significant overlap, I still think this thread serves a purpose. As a non-Briton, it's a lot more useful as a read than UK PoliGAF is, since I don't have to filter out stuff that isn't particularly relevant to me.
 

jelly

Member
Another Tory idiot.

Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, is taking questions in the Commons. In response to a question from the Conservative MP Nigel Evans about negative coverage of Brexit in the media, Fox accused the BBC of being biased against Brexit. He told MPs:

It does appear that some elements of our media would rather see Britain fail than Brexit succeed. I cannot recall a single time in recent times when I have seen good economic news that the BBC did not describe as “despite Brexit”.

Stating the obvious.

Barnier says 'frictionless' trade with EU will be impossible if UK leaves single market

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, has been giving evidence to an EU committee in Brussels this morning. And he has delivered some blunt messages to the UK. Here are the key points, from the Press Association coverage.

Barnier said that it would be impossible for the UK to have frictionless trade with the EU if it left the single market. The government has said that it wants trade with the EU to be “as frictionless as possible” after Brexit. But Barnier said that the EU had made it clear to the UK that the EU’s “four freedoms” - including freedom of movement - are indivisible, that there can be no sector-by-sector participation in the single market and that the EU will maintain full sovereignty over its own rules and regulations. He said:
These three points were already made very clear by the European council and European parliament, but I am not sure whether they have been fully understood across the Channel.

I have heard some people in the UK argue that one can leave the single market and keep all of its benefits. That is not possible.

I have heard some people in the UK argue that one can leave the single market and build a customs union to achieve frictionless trade. That is not possible.

He said Brexit would inevitably have “negative” consequences for the UK.
The decision to leave the EU has consequences and I have to explain to citizens, businesses and civil society on both sides of the Channel what those consequences mean for them.

These consequences are the direct result of the choice made by the UK, not by the EU. There is no punishment for Brexit and of course no spirit of revenge. But Brexit has a cost, also for business in the EU27, and businesses should assess with lucidity the negative consequences of the UK choice on trade and investment and prepare to manage that.

He said that if the UK and the EU failed to reach a deal, the UK would lose out more. Brexit would create a “loser/loser situation” for both the EU and UK, he said. But he went on:
No deal would worsen the loser/loser situation which will necessarily be the result of Brexit and objectively the UK would have rather more to lose than its partners.

There is no reasonable justification for a no deal scenario. There is no reason further to worsen the consequences of Brexit.
 
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