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The Vietnam War: A Film by Ken Burns & Lynn Novick. Premieres Sunday Sept. 17 on PBS.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
- Start date
SolarPowered
Member
I'm up to episode seven. Just got to the part on Nixon's literal treason via the contact with Saigon to stop peace talks with North Vietnam. I just can't with all this anymore. What is our school system even for? It feels like 70% of everything important in American history is something one can only obtain after high school if they're reaaaaaally lucky.
Nixon was a crook from the fucking start and LBJ let the weasel slide by. Man, the modern parallel with Obama and Trump is blowing my mind. I can't believe Obama didn't see how badly keeping quiet turned out for LBJ and the country.
Nixon was a crook from the fucking start and LBJ let the weasel slide by. Man, the modern parallel with Obama and Trump is blowing my mind. I can't believe Obama didn't see how badly keeping quiet turned out for LBJ and the country.
Hexxen-Panda
Member
Only just finished episode 7, but this series really is exemplary. Reading the big, heavy book after every couple episodes is helpful because it expands on some things that the show had to gloss over for time and pacing purposes.
Bought the bluray, but a little annoyed that every disc has to play an unskippable 1-minute intro. I didn't know the series was mastered in 60 fps, so some of the film footage look weirdly sped up, but its probably how TV sets at the time displayed film footage so whatever.
edit: having watched more than 15 minutes of an 18-hour film, I have determined that the twitter guy's criticism, quoted earlier in the thread, is full of shit.
Bought the bluray, but a little annoyed that every disc has to play an unskippable 1-minute intro. I didn't know the series was mastered in 60 fps, so some of the film footage look weirdly sped up, but its probably how TV sets at the time displayed film footage so whatever.
edit: having watched more than 15 minutes of an 18-hour film, I have determined that the twitter guy's criticism, quoted earlier in the thread, is full of shit.
Nixon was a crook from the fucking start and LBJ let the weasel slide by. Man, the modern parallel with Obama and Trump is blowing my mind. I can't believe Obama didn't see how badly keeping quiet turned out for LBJ and the country.
The parallels between both presidents and the trajectory their terms have lead is startling. Both terms begot terrible presidents after due to moderates voting on fallacy.
My original plan of watching the airings nightly have been deterred. I plan to catch the complete series the PBS streams. Although, I did catch the last two episodes out of order, previous posters are correct. The documentary gets more grim and is filled with despair in the end.
TheSchwab_7
Member
Communist Broadcasting System huh? Some shit never changes.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Im nearly done the series and it just amazes me how many parallels there are to modern day society.
Historical mistakes constantly being remade again and again. Complete failure in perspective and education
Historical mistakes constantly being remade again and again. Complete failure in perspective and education
Has anyone's view changed about the war knowing more facts surrounding it? I think the US government and peace activists chose poorly to abandon South Vietnam and watching the doc has made me more convinced of that.
I know it is outside the scope of the documentary, but I would have liked to see a better picture of Vietnam today, the immediate effects after South Vietnam was integrated with North, the lives of Vietnamese that fled and live in the US.
I know it is outside the scope of the documentary, but I would have liked to see a better picture of Vietnam today, the immediate effects after South Vietnam was integrated with North, the lives of Vietnamese that fled and live in the US.
I think this the greatest and most affecting documentary I've ever seen.
I cried (at least) three times during its 10 episodes, and for completely different reasons. What an emotional wringer. Pure seething anger, incredulity, horror, sadness, reflection and hope. So much to take in and learn from.
Just brilliance.
Absolutely. The way the doc sets the mood makes things really emotional. It should be a lesson to all of us.
Warplanes, including B52 long range strategic bombers, were stacked at 1000ft intervals above the battle field, from 7000-35,000 feet, impatiently waitng targets to strafe, or bomb, or burn.
By God, they sent us over here to kill communists, and that's what we are doing
Absolutely harrowing
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I'm up to episode seven. Just got to the part on Nixon's literal treason via the contact with Saigon to stop peace talks with North Vietnam. I just can't with all this anymore. What is our school system even for? It feels like 70% of everything important in American history is something one can only obtain after high school if they're reaaaaaally lucky.
Nixon was a crook from the fucking start and LBJ let the weasel slide by. Man, the modern parallel with Obama and Trump is blowing my mind. I can't believe Obama didn't see how badly keeping quiet turned out for LBJ and the country.
Honestly most of the regular stuff here I definitely learned in highschool(Alabama, US).
(however school textbooks really don't sink in past a quick face value)
The French stuff at the start I literally had no clue about other than knowing they had troops there in the early days.
HerbertBirdsfoot
Member
Wow, tonight episode was something else, even paralleling what's going on now with the confederate flag/monuments and protests.
Had to Google William Calley and was surprised if not shocked he is still alive and was not executed or given life in prison for what he and others did. Terrible.
One of the men who intervened and helped end the massacre just died last year. Lawrence Colburn. Hero.
My Lai is an important lesson. Were all savages and war takes civilization away for some people I guess. Being an American doesnt make you a good person. Bring a good person does. Hard to be that under stress. No excuses for that goddamn massacre though.
Fluffernutter Pancake
Member
I just can't with all this anymore. What is our school system even for? It feels like 70% of everything important in American history is something one can only obtain after high school if they're reaaaaaally lucky.
After just the 1st or 2nd episode, I was feeling the exact same way ---- just so pissed off at my public schooling education of American history. AP History, even. There was effective nothing covered about the background on Ho Chi Minh...............basically, the Vietnam War's buildup and inception were summarized, from my memory of public education, as these deceptively dry points, emphasized with a few bolded key-event words and just a few paragraphs:
-American "advisors" sent to Vietnam to help the French after an ambush at Dien Bien Phu
-Domino Theory (bolded key-word in textbook) ---- couldn't let those damn commies take over Asia, so of course our involvement was essential!
- Gulf of Tonkin incident (bolded key-word in textbook) ---- those damn Viet Cong sunk our battleship ------ every man to his post! War is on!
Just a complete failure the way American history is taught to American children ---- the scary part is that most people can go most or all of their lives without learning about a fraction of the detailed background to key American and world history events. It really all must be sought out after grade school, and most of the time, this information is discovered unintentionally.
American history education needs a serious overall. So much wasted time and wasted opportunities to educate people about the realities and complexities of the world --- we instead get dumbing down of events and brainwashing propaganda.
Hexxen-Panda
Member
Seeing the protests of episodes 8&9 is truly eye-opening and shocking to me. I couldn't imagine that American students would get killed in their campuses, and the vast majority of Americans would approve of the guardsmen and vilify the victims.
One very recent quote came to mind:
One very recent quote came to mind:
I love the old days, you know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They'd be carried out in a stretcher, folks. Oh, it's true.
Holy shit, just finished.
I was a baby when Vietnam started and honestly I knew quite a bit about the war, but very little compared to what I learned watching this.
Sad and disgusting what war is and does to people. In awe of the people profiled and how much character they all seem to exhibit.
I've seen every Ken Burns documentary, I think, to me this is the best one he's ever done.
Amazing
I was a baby when Vietnam started and honestly I knew quite a bit about the war, but very little compared to what I learned watching this.
Sad and disgusting what war is and does to people. In awe of the people profiled and how much character they all seem to exhibit.
I've seen every Ken Burns documentary, I think, to me this is the best one he's ever done.
Amazing
RedSparrows
Member
Watching ep 5.
This series is fantastic, and has me on the verge of tears. The range of Vietnamese voices does feel slightly weak compared to US voices (South Vietnamese combat troops/rural civilians, for instance), but are nevertheless interesting, welcome, and elevate the endeavour.
The alternating stories of Marine John Musgrave, between reflecting on the justifications he offered himself for being party to PoW executions, and then telling of his horrendous injuries and the men who suffered to rescue him from the mouth of a machine gun, fascinated me in differing ways.
Semi-OT, but still relevant: McCain's interview in the NV hospital was also horrible. I couldn't help but think of Trump's comments on that, and somehow reached a new level of loathing for that man.
This series is fantastic, and has me on the verge of tears. The range of Vietnamese voices does feel slightly weak compared to US voices (South Vietnamese combat troops/rural civilians, for instance), but are nevertheless interesting, welcome, and elevate the endeavour.
The alternating stories of Marine John Musgrave, between reflecting on the justifications he offered himself for being party to PoW executions, and then telling of his horrendous injuries and the men who suffered to rescue him from the mouth of a machine gun, fascinated me in differing ways.
Semi-OT, but still relevant: McCain's interview in the NV hospital was also horrible. I couldn't help but think of Trump's comments on that, and somehow reached a new level of loathing for that man.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Just finished ep 6, the most difficult episode to watch by far given the amount of live coverage that went on during the battles in the cities. Truly baffling that this shit went on for another 7 years after Johnson left, I can see that he was a truly flawed president but still has plenty of blood on his hands. I'll admit I'm very ignorant of this war and the events that occurred stateside, but I'm not looking forward to revisiting the reasons why Nixon kept fighting.
On episode 9..oh man I knew Nixon was a little shit, but this stuff is CRAZY! And also, wtf..I reading reviews and people say this doc. has a liberal slant and is bullshit.
Probably because at the end...
they show how the Warriors made peace with their enemy haha God forbid right
I am floored that people can sink that low to politicize everything it's disgusting bunch of idiots.
I'm actually watching this twice every two or three episodes my girlfriend comes over and I watch them again with her it's mesmerizing
Recently started watching this on BBC and damn this is great. Does anyone else have any similar quality documentary series/movies they could recommend? Nothing WW1/2 focused though. Anything to do with the Korean war, Khmer Rouge, South American wars, Japan/China etc. Basically any "lesser known" war would be great!