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[Bobby Roberts]

Not that Vanaman/Rodkin are being considered, but since they're responsible for the single best example of storytelling ever associated with The Walking Dead, it'd be nice to even hear their names being put in the mix.

But then again, considering the show's been on for three seasons, one of which didn't even really HAVE a showrunner - even if they did get hired, they'd just be fired/forced out by the end of the year anyway.

Dunno what AMC's doing here. Considering the audience base comes back week after week even when large chunks of it loudly, strongly DISLIKE the show, you'd think it'd be a good idea to stick with the guy who ran your show to it's biggest numbers and highest appreciation from those viewers.

But AMC is a weird place.

 

[Fry]

Watch more TV.

But it's been a good enough show for almost a year now. Him leaving is very worrying though.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

get Shawn Ryan!!



but man, this news sucks.

 

[Jeels]

I wonder what the differences of opinion were.

 

[Kinyou]

Gary Whittaaaaa

 

[Grisby]

The first half of S3 has been awesome. Mazzara leaving though?

 

[Escape Goat]

Maybe it'll be even more awesome now. And the new guy wont have any problems killing off Andrea.

 

[Plissken]

AMC confuses me.

Darabont produces amazing pilot, Walking Dead becomes the networks highest rated show in its history. Leaves/fired over budget/creative differences.

Mazarra steps up, cleans up the mess Darabont left Season 2 in. Fresh start in Season 3 delivers even HIGHER ratings for the show. Leaves/fired over creative differences.

Hopefully whoever inherits/steps up/gets shoved into the show runner position can keep the current level of quality (or make it even better) and AMC will realize that you might want to keep around the people that make your show such a hit.

 

[Jobiensis]

fixed

Yeah, with some of the stuff I've read about Breaking Bad and then this, it seems like AMC doesn't have a very effective business model. They seem to always be trying to cut costs dramatically, on shows that I presume are doing very well.

 

[Bladenic]

What's with AMC and show runners constantly leaving and getting replaced? Is Mad Men the only one who hasn't had such turbulence (I don't know anything about Breaking Bad)?

 

[ari]

this show is going to be cancelled because of all the behind the scene shit going on...i can just feel it. would be a shame to not have the characters story to not be finished.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

this show is going to be cancelled because of all the behind the scene shit going on...i can just feel it. would be a shame to not have the characters story to not be finished.

It's the highest rated show on AMC. It's not getting cancelled.

 

[iammeiam]

this show is going to be cancelled because of all the behind the scene shit going on...i can just feel it. would be a shame to not have the characters story to not be finished.

There is no way AMC is giving up those ratings. I do not, however, understand not giving Mazzara whatever he wants. The show got a lot better under him, and the ratings went from great to greater, so why not work with him? Did he want a My Little Pony crossover? Maybe kill off a fan favorite character? Baffling.

 

[lazybones18]

O/U: This show will go through five showrunners before its end

 

[ari]

It's the highest rated show on AMC. It's not getting cancelled.

with budget costs being cut and three revolving show runners in 3/4 seasons that could effect the quality of the show, those ratings can plummet.

It would take one or two shit storylines to ruin the show. Example, If the new front runner wants to stray away from the comics even more in a silly manner and shit on the fans of those comics. I think that is all it takes.

 

[Arment]

It's the highest rated show on AMC. It's not getting cancelled.

Unless some horses die or something.

 

[LosDaddie]

Watch more TV.

NO U

Maybe it'll be even more awesome now. And the new guy wont have any problems killing off Andrea.

Or Tyrese. Oh wait.

 

[Archer]

He left because of budget. He wanted a raise, AMC said no, he had to stick with his guns, thus leaving.

 

[ari]

He left because of budget. He wanted a raise, AMC said no, he had to stick with his guns, thus leaving.

if thats the case, thats all him, i understand he is bringing in the ratings, but the foundation was already set for the show to be a success. meh

 

[smr00]

A lot of people throwing baby tantrums in here.

Same thing happened when Darabont left and the show ended up getting better so i have faith in it, the show is a fucking galactus size hit for AMC so i have faith that they will replace him with someone as good if not better.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

with budget costs being cut and three revolving show runners in 3/4 seasons that could effect the quality of the show, those ratings can plummet.

It would take one or two shit storylines to ruin the show. Example, If the new front runner wants to stray away from the comics even more in a silly manner and shit on the fans of those comics. I think that is all it takes.

Well of course if the ratings tank it could get cancelled. But, as of now the ratings are great so there is no reason to fear for it's cancellation. Fear the show turning shitty.

I don't think this shows fan base is built on fans of the comics. Anecdotal, but I have six friends who watch this show and love the shit out of it. Zero of them have read the comics or give a shit to. I imagine the vast majority of it's 10 million weekly viewers are the same, since I assume comic books don't sell anywhere near that.

 

[Lonestar]

He's done a good job, but I'm of the opinion that the show was helped out with the Prison saga (the Comic's best sequence) It was going to be an improvement over Herschel's Farm, no matter what.

But he certainly left a great mark on the series (hearing the angles he brought in after going through the death of his Mother, and it's effect on scenes in Season 3A)

 

[Funky Papa]

That would be amazing, specially if was in the same sort of style as The Shield.

After watching Last Resort... I'm not that sure.

 

[Chinner]

i wish i could know about the politics behind the show, sounds so fascinating.

 

[Cornballer]

I don't think AMC has a good relationship with any of their showrunners at this point.

A couple related articles:
- Maureen Ryan: 'The Walking Dead' Showrunner Drama: Is This The End Of Auteur TV?
- THR: 'The Walking Dead': What Really Happened to Fired Showrunner Frank Darabont (old article, but relevant given today's news)

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I wonder if its something to do with staying faithful to the comic i.e spoilers obv

Spoiler

The entire cast bloodbath that would probably end the prison run/season 3. I wonder if Glen was for and the studio were against

Thats what I'm wondering too, with the whole "creative differences" line. {Comic spoilers/ vague Game of Thrones spoiler reference}

Spoiler

The whole bloodbath to end the prison arc is pretty important but I could see the network not wanting to do something like that. But that would be like Game of Thrones without the RW or the event at the end of season 1.

The show has gotten better but it could still improve. I'd just be concerned the TV show goes totally off the rails if some of the creative differences are over where the comic takes things and how faithful or not Mazarra wanted to go along with that.

How involved is Kirkman with the show? Does he have any say?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

How involved is Kirkman with the show? Does he have any say?

Kirkman's involved in collecting a check and writing an episode or two every now and again. I don't think he carries any real weight so far as decisionmaking goes.

 

[Hazmat]

Thats what I'm wondering too, with the whole "creative differences" line.

The show has gotten better but it could still improve. I'd just be concerned the TV show goes totally off the rails if some of the creative differences are over where the comic takes things and how faithful or not Mazarra wanted to go along with that.

How involved is Kirkman with the show? Does he have any say?

You might want to edit your spoilers or at least indicate that it has Game of Thrones spoilers as well.

 

[985boi]

I don't think AMC has a good relationship with any of their showrunners at this point.

A couple related articles:
- Maureen Ryan: 'The Walking Dead' Showrunner Drama: Is This The End Of Auteur TV?
- THR: 'The Walking Dead': What Really Happened to Fired Showrunner Frank Darabont (old article, but relevant given today's news)

Not only that, Rubicon's showrunner left the show after he wrote and produced the pilot. Due to "creative differences".

 

[Master Thespian]

He's done a good job, but I'm of the opinion that the show was helped out with the Prison saga (the Comic's best sequence) It was going to be an improvement over Herschel's Farm, no matter what.

But he certainly left a great mark on the series (hearing the angles he brought in after going through the death of his Mother, and it's effect on scenes in Season 3A)

It has definitely been helped by the prison era. In fact, before the news came out about him wanting a deserved raise I was going to make a joke about him leaving after this year because he knows that the comic steadily declines after the prison arc. But in all seriousness, even the second half of season 2 was paced better than its first half. There's also less cringe inducing dialogue this season (HE SAW A DEER, LORI!).

 

[UberTag]

What's going on with this show and it's showrunners? Is AMC down their throat, is Kirkman too difficult to work with? For what's, ratings-wise, the most successful show to ever hit basic cable, it's very strange that they're going to be on their third head EP in three years.

In other news, a show in DIRE need of a change... The Simpsons... will continue to keep Al Jean on board as showrunner when Season 25 kicks off next fall. It will be his 13th consecutive year of running the once great series into the ground with non-stop Apple product puns and celebrity guest appearances.

 

[Emerson]

AMC is a horrible network and it's obvious at this point. This could be a good or bad thing for the show but the overall picture for the network is striking.

 

[kame-sennin]

Not only that, Rubicon's showrunner left the show after he wrote and produced the pilot. Due to "creative differences".

Didn't the Mad Men showrunner have a big fight with AMC also, which lead to a delay between seasons? AMC management is a clusterfuck.

 

[Cornballer]

Not only that, Rubicon's showrunner left the show after he wrote and produced the pilot. Due to "creative differences".

Yeah, I was thinking about that one, too.

Didn't the Mad Men showrunner have a big fight with AMC also, which lead to a delay between seasons? AMC management is a clusterfuck.

Yup. They got mired in long negotiations with Vince Gilligan, as well. Like I said, I can't think of an AMC show where they're on good terms with the showrunner at this point.

 

[dc89]

Come on Gary, step in!

 

[oneils]

What's with AMC and show runners constantly leaving and getting replaced? Is Mad Men the only one who hasn't had such turbulence (I don't know anything about Breaking Bad)?

With Mad Men, AMC still chopped the budget for season 5. They wanted to either cut the cast in half, or cut the episodes to a half hour or cut the season in half. Can't remember which.

They seem to always insist that costs be reduced as the shows gain popularity. They have done it with Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and now The Walking Dead.

I wonder if despite the ratings, their revenue is just not sufficient to keep up.

 

[SarcasticD]

Maybe the black quota can be raised!

 

[Hours Left]

Now I'm worried. Season 3 has been amazing so far.

 

[Cerberus]

With Mad Men, AMC still chopped the budget for season 5. They wanted to either cut the cast in half, or cut the episodes to a half hour or cut the season in half. Can't remember which.

They seem to always insist that costs be reduced as the shows gain popularity. They have done it with Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and now The Walking Dead.

I wonder if despite the ratings, their revenue is just not sufficient to keep up.

AMC wanted to eliminate some cast members, cut minutes from each episode to allow for more commercials, and increase product placement in the show.

I forget what the dispute was with Breaking Bad. Something to do with the final season?

What a clusterfuck of a network.

 

[kame-sennin]

Yup. They got mired in long negotiations with Vince Gilligan, as well. Like I said, I can't think of an AMC show where they're on good terms with the showrunner at this point.

Just read the link from your first post:

A couple related articles:
- Maureen Ryan: 'The Walking Dead' Showrunner Drama: Is This The End Of Auteur TV?

Wow:

- John Shiban, the showrunner brought in for the second season of "Hell on Wheels" after the first season's creative leaders departed, has also left that show, which just recently got its third showrunner in three seasons, John Wirth.

- In 2011, negotiations over "Breaking Bad's" final season got so toxic that the show's studio, Sony, publicly broached the idea of shopping it elsewhere.

- That same year, negotiations over the contract of "Mad Men" creator Matthew Weiner grew so heated that the idea of Weiner exiting and another writer being brought in by the network was publicly floated.

- Before that, "The Walking Dead" endured its first big round of controversy when the man who shepherded the project to television, writer/director Frank Darabont, departed amid much surprise and acrimony.

- The contrast to all that off-screen drama is the network's steadfast loyalty to Veena Sud, showrunner of "The Killing," a drama that didn't do all that well for the network ratings-wise and has been a critical punching bag for much of its run. It was canceled after the conclusion of its second soggy season, but in yet another move that caused head-scratching in the media, AMC decided to revive the show for a third season. I speculate that's because the drama -- and possibly Sud -- didn't cost much, not because the world was clamoring to have it back.​

Also worth noting:

This is just my two cents, but AMC appears to think that that kind of creative talent is more trouble (and possibly more money) than its worth.

To play devil's advocate here for a second: Are they right?

AMC originally developed TV shows to go along with its library of old movies; they didn't necessarily set out to beat HBO at its awards-gathering game. Executives there wanted some programming that would help them stay on cable subscribers' radar and work well alongside their film offerings. Hence the network commissioned a retro drama that evokes classic Hollywood ("Mad Men"), a dark, gritty thriller ("Breaking Bad"), a Western ("Hell on Wheels"), a crime drama ("The Killing") and a horror franchise ("The Walking Dead"). (Its spy drama, "Rubicon," which had two showrunners in its first season, didn't get renewed.)​

AMC does not seem to have the same ambitions as HBO. It seems like they just need shows that will get the attention of cable providers. Whether that's good dramas or shitty reality shows, it doesn't really matter.

 

[iammeiam]

AMC wanted to eliminate some cast members, cut minutes from each episode to allow for more commercials, and increase product placement in the show.

I forget what the dispute was with Breaking Bad. Something to do with the final season?

What a clusterfuck of a network.

AMC wanted Breakig Bad to finish in an eight episode season 5; Gilligan wanted 13 episodes to finish the story. They winded up compromising by making season 5 16 episodes, but split over two years (presumably so AMC could spread the cost out over longer.)

 

[Gorillaz]

I still wonder how it would have all turned out if Durabont was still in charge. AMC pretty much fucked over The Walking Dead and Breaking Bad compared to Mad Men.

EDIT: now that kame brought it up, AMC does seem to be an underachiever with their shows. They are already promoting 2 of there newest reality shows, making it now 4 reality titles on the network

Waste of potential.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Well, that blows. Show improved dramatically with him.

 

[Cornballer]

AMC wanted Breakig Bad to finish in an eight episode season 5; Gilligan wanted 13 episodes to finish the story. They winded up compromising by making season 5 16 episodes, but split over two years (presumably so AMC could spread the cost out over longer.)

My understanding of the situation is that AMC wanted Breaking Bad to continue indefinitely because it was making money for them and garnering lots of good press. Gilligan wanted to finish it off with a final, 13-episode season. They ultimately agreed on the 16 episode plan split into two chunks, and the rationale behind that from AMC's side is that they have it on the air for two more seasons/years rather than one for coverage as well as award eligibility.

 

[Gorillaz]

My understanding of the situation is that AMC wanted Breaking Bad to continue indefinitely because it was making money for them and garnering lots of good press. Gilligan wanted to finish it off with a final, 13-episode season. They ultimately agreed on the 16 episode plan split into two chunks, and the rationale behind that from AMC's side is that they have it on the air for two more seasons/years rather than one for coverage as well as award eligibility.

Wasn't there also talk that they moved Season of BrBa to the summer to give Mad Men a fair chance at the emmy's? It' sounds far fetched but wouldn't surprise me since I know Mad Men is like a "son" to them since it was there first big show.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Wasn't there also talk that they moved Season of BrBa to the summer to give Mad Men a fair chance at the emmy's? It' sounds far fetched but wouldn't surprise me since I know Mad Men is like a "son" to them since it was there first big show.

Nothing's far fetched w/ AMC's management.

They make the Weinsteins look reasonable.

 

[kirblar]

AMC wants top-tier TV but doesn't want to shell out the money for it.

 

[Bladenic]

With Mad Men, AMC still chopped the budget for season 5. They wanted to either cut the cast in half, or cut the episodes to a half hour or cut the season in half. Can't remember which.

They seem to always insist that costs be reduced as the shows gain popularity. They have done it with Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and now The Walking Dead.

I wonder if despite the ratings, their revenue is just not sufficient to keep up.

DUH, I completely forgot about this. How did they reach a treaty? None of the cast got cut, though some appeared in fewer episodes than before perhaps. But I do recall thinking this sounded beyond idiotic, just randomly cutting out characters. Thank God Weiner won that battle (mostly).

 

[iammeiam]

My understanding of the situation is that AMC wanted Breaking Bad to continue indefinitely because it was making money for them and garnering lots of good press. Gilligan wanted to finish it off with a final, 13-episode season. They ultimately agreed on the 16 episode plan split into two chunks, and the rationale behind that from AMC's side is that they have it on the air for two more seasons/years rather than one for coverage as well as award eligibility.

The dispute in public was always boiled down to episode count; it may have been different behind the scenes, but AMC's desire for a short season five was always at the forefront of coverage. The only time I remember season six being mentioned was as a possible compromise required to get the show onto another network to end properly, never really read AMC was pushing for it.

 

[blainethemono]

Just read the link from your first post:



Wow:

- John Shiban, the showrunner brought in for the second season of "Hell on Wheels" after the first season's creative leaders departed, has also left that show, which just recently got its third showrunner in three seasons, John Wirth.

- In 2011, negotiations over "Breaking Bad's" final season got so toxic that the show's studio, Sony, publicly broached the idea of shopping it elsewhere.

- That same year, negotiations over the contract of "Mad Men" creator Matthew Weiner grew so heated that the idea of Weiner exiting and another writer being brought in by the network was publicly floated.

- Before that, "The Walking Dead" endured its first big round of controversy when the man who shepherded the project to television, writer/director Frank Darabont, departed amid much surprise and acrimony.

- The contrast to all that off-screen drama is the network's steadfast loyalty to Veena Sud, showrunner of "The Killing," a drama that didn't do all that well for the network ratings-wise and has been a critical punching bag for much of its run. It was canceled after the conclusion of its second soggy season, but in yet another move that caused head-scratching in the media, AMC decided to revive the show for a third season. I speculate that's because the drama -- and possibly Sud -- didn't cost much, not because the world was clamoring to have it back.​

Also worth noting:

This is just my two cents, but AMC appears to think that that kind of creative talent is more trouble (and possibly more money) than its worth.

To play devil's advocate here for a second: Are they right?

AMC originally developed TV shows to go along with its library of old movies; they didn't necessarily set out to beat HBO at its awards-gathering game. Executives there wanted some programming that would help them stay on cable subscribers' radar and work well alongside their film offerings. Hence the network commissioned a retro drama that evokes classic Hollywood ("Mad Men"), a dark, gritty thriller ("Breaking Bad"), a Western ("Hell on Wheels"), a crime drama ("The Killing") and a horror franchise ("The Walking Dead"). (Its spy drama, "Rubicon," which had two showrunners in its first season, didn't get renewed.)​

AMC does not seem to have the same ambitions as HBO. It seems like they just need shows that will get the attention of cable providers. Whether that's good dramas or shitty reality shows, it doesn't really matter.

From what i've read this is kind of the same philosophy HBO/Chris Albrecht had in the late 90's starting with Oz and The Sopranos. Mostly though, they didn't care about ratings as much, they just wanted to "make noise" and get recognized for what they were doing. The difference is that HBO actually gave their showrunners complete freedom to experiment and do whatever they wanted, whereas AMC seems to involve itself too much in everything. They have good, talented people working on these shows, they just need to let them do their thing