The Wife of an EA Employee Speaks Out

I'm 90% sure that at ubi, bonuses are included.

I know I want in as an artist.

I'll see what happens...

The video game industry is in dire need of changes.
 
I wonder how it feels working so long every week for so much crap.

I mean some games in the 80'ies where made by a single guy and they still hold up today.

I dont think anyone will be playing Madden 2005 10 years from now.
 
I expect it to get really interesting once we get into production for next gen

everyone i've talked to on the art side seems to really enjoy their job, i know the some of the programmers get slammed pretty hard though. Even if you do work long hours it isnt like it's hard. I mean I have a tv, ps2 test kit, dvd player etc sitting at my desk if i get stressed i just pop shattered soldiers in and blow things up for a while.
 
Believe me, it can be worse than that... that type of things made me change about wanting to develop games. "Journalism" is a walk in the park compared with the position of lot of coders, artist and so in the industry (but it´s not the same money of course, and have other problems).
 
Bogdan said:
Days all blend, night and day cycle gets whacked out. It is kind of fun pushing the limits of your body, it is like Apocalypse Now.
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Willard: "Who's in command here?"
Soldier: "Ain't you?"
 
Chittagong, you can't really compare a junior partner at a firm to a tester. I think a better comparison would be a a Project Leader at BCG for example, and a Team Lead at EA. Even comparing the basic entry-level jobs in programming for EA and the entry-level analyst position at an I-Bank.

I do see your point though 100% - and I completely agree.
 
While I'm sure that the actual content of the story is true, I highly doubt that it was written by anyone other than the employee himself.
 
You know what's the real problem? I fear that employees in gaming companies are cocksuckers. Let me explain:

The policies with the working hour vs the salary, social advantages and bonuses are shitty. We are exploited and it's a fact, and it needs to change. BUT:
Companies keep controlling their employees with the now famous "if you don't want to listen to me, i can give your job to the incredible amount of people that dream to work here" or something like that. EMPLOYEES have to move their butts and do something. Don't be whores for your job. If everybody refuse to get exploited and get together and fight, they won't be able to do ANYTHING. They can't fire to much people at a time.
But at this time and age where "the way of the jungle" is the way, and where people does not help you until you have suicidal tendencies or shoot people publicly, i suppose nothing can change?
 
Zilch said:
So are you guys mainly talking about coding/QA here? Or does stuff like this happen on the art side, too?
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Well, i had like 70hrs a week but never something like the hundred the person is talking in this article. I suppose it's even worse in the prod than in QA.
I don't mind 60 hrs a week, but more than 70 most of the time - no way.
 
Isn't there some kind of union for game developers? There absolutely should be. Working 80 hours per week is just madness, because I reckon there isn't much of a choice either. Apart from the "choice" of staying home and getting fired, I mean...
 
Kiriku said:
Isn't there some kind of union for game developers? There absolutely should be. Working 80 hours per week is just madness, because I reckon there isn't much of a choice either. Apart from the "choice" of staying home and getting fired, I mean...
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Oh dear, don't get the unions involved in this...

If that happens, you can say bye-bye to every game dev job in this country...
 
My only point was that yes, the conditions are crappy, yes, the work is tedious, but in spite of everything the end product of everything coming together is usually worth it.
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'EA's turnover rate in engineering is approximately 50%'. So apparently not.
 
PotatoeMasher said:
Oh dear, don't get the unions involved in this...

If that happens, you can say bye-bye to every game dev job in this country...
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Yup corps have all the power, and they are more than willing to abuse it.

After all they can ship coding jobs to Eastern Europe, the good ol' USA? Hah screw that. The only part of the USA that's cared about is the executive board and the shareholder.
 
PotatoeMasher said:
Oh dear, don't get the unions involved in this...

If that happens, you can say bye-bye to every game dev job in this country...
Click to expand...

OK, then there absolutely should have been a union before this madness went too far, and some kind of regulations making it harder for developers to outsource projects to other countries. Truly a sad state for the videogame industry, almost like a kind of modern slavery. Without a union, I can only see this situation getting worse. A world-wide regulation of sorts would be nice, but also very hard to implement in reality. :|
 
Another thing to think about is that there's just as much crunch involved with a piece of shit in a box as there is on a AAA title, so consider that the next time you rip into a crappy game (don't take this as "don't rip into crappy games" - I do it too :) but I'm a lot more sympathetic when it comes to looking at bad games because I know how much work went into it anyway)

That IS the worst btw - working 80+ hour weeks on something that you know is a piece of shit...:(
 
Oh the horror stories of being a programer. They are scary. I could not/will not work long days and nights. Thats why I'm going into something different. I need my normal day schedules. ;)
 
The Bookerman said:
I'm already workin 50-60 hours a week and I find it hard to have a life.

Edit: I'm only in QA by the way ;).
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And that doesn't make you any less important to the development process. QA gets you treated like dirt, but if you do good work and tell people you want to get moved up, you will move up.
 
being a programmer is nothing.at.all like being an investment banker.

i think i've said before that unions would be a great idea. good luck trying to unionize the white collar though.
 
One of the reasons I think QA are forced to do such long hours is simply to weed people out. I really think that is where a company sees who has the drive and passion to get moved up.

Who can take the beat down, get up and go for more. The game industry has no mercy for relationships. It's even worse if you are married, because well, when you are just seeing a woman and the job gets in the way, you can split amicably. When you are married you split, but she gets half of everything and with the crazy hours, your chances to go out and socialize are next to impossible.
 
fart said:
being a programmer is nothing.at.all like being an investment banker.

i think i've said before that unions would be a great idea. good luck trying to unionize the white collar though.
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Unions will never happen in the game industry. Games would always be late and cost a ton more than they already do.
 
PR job can be a pain in the ass too, specially during crisis periods. Sure you will not crank as many hours as a programer or a QA slave but the stress can be unwearable (a bastard boss also helps)
 
The Bookerman said:
I'm 90% sure that at ubi, bonuses are included.

I know I want in as an artist.

I'll see what happens...

The video game industry is in dire need of changes.
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Wait. You want to be an artist and yet you are in QA? Ususally you should be able to skip QA and just get placed into an entry level art position.
 
I could tell terrible stories about the experiences of some of my acquaintances in PR. E3 especially, people having to work like dogs leading up to the show and wheel all day and all night during the show. One friend of mine got brutally sick on day one and spent the rest of the show having to run to throw up in between appointments, all the while making herself sicker with a massive caffeine overdose to stay awake.

At E3, there's always a certain kinship between PR people and website people, because we're the only ones at the show who don't get to fuck off and go drink free liquor at five.

DFS.
 
PotatoeMasher said:
Oh dear, don't get the unions involved in this...

If that happens, you can say bye-bye to every game dev job in this country...
Click to expand...


I have to totally disagree here: There's too much cash to make with videogames, employers would have to bow down against some unions or they would lose their big fat wallets.
 
I did PR job some years ago for a company that used to sell its software to several developers (most of them business related) I got FEVER and lost two kilos during an entire day trying to fight a crisis after a monumental fuckup that caused our program to go bananas when switching from ME to XP. Never more.
 
Amusing story: Nintendo's employees tried to unionize in the 1950s. Yamauchi shut that down fast.
 
fennec fox said:
Amusing story: Nintendo's employees tried to unionize in the 1950s. Yamauchi shut that down fast.
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Yamauchi versus a strike would have made Ronald Reagan look like Jimmy Hoffa.

If that was the '50s, how long had he been in charge of the company at that point? Not very, right?

DFS.
 
Duckhuntdog said:
Unions will never happen in the game industry. Games would always be late and cost a ton more than they already do.
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i think it would destabilize the industry temporarily, but over time, things would improve for everyone barring maybe the suits who are making out like bandits currently.
 
Chittagong said:
Thank god for this thread. It reminded me why a job in strategy and biz dev is a lot more tolerable in the games industry and made me to put in rest (again) my ambitions of developing my own title. Having wathced close the development of a AAA title and the über-ambitious Producer almost burn out, I know I could do it but know now better not to go that way. Although he managed to do a truly revolutionary game, it still isn't worth the sacrifice.

Seriously,in the games industry it pays off big time to move to marketing, strategy or biz dev. Sure, there is always madness before E3 and during Sept-Oct, or before a big game unveiling, but nothing close to what I've read in this thread.

As for management consulting or investment banking, having worked your ass off as a junior at McKinsey, BCG or GS you are pretty sure to land you on a comfy Powerpoint job in a blue chip company. But working your ass off as a tester at EA, not sure if that'll land you to a similar position at the publishing side there.
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Yeah, what he said.
I am a Project Manager in the art department at one of the bigger gaming companies. and yeah, we have our crazy periods, but mostly it's 40-50 hour weeks and lot of fun working with the game artwork, plus the stress of scheduling and making sure artists meet their deadlines and marketing is happy with the finsihed product on the shelf, in the mag ads, web or on TV.
 
thats terrible? what kinda salary range are we talking about here for a fulltime game programmer? 40/45k a year?
i know a finance analyst who makes more than a 100k and works this kind of hours. if you are getting paid well enough, it makes sense...you work like a dog, save up, then leave.
but i dont think programmers get paid that well at all, certainly not game programmers. developers of business apps...now thats a different story.
 
I think that game programmers make somewhat less than non-game programmers in similar (as far as seniority) positions. Blame it on the fact that "OOH GAMES ARE FUN" so everyone wants to be a game programmer...
 
Uh-oh.

EA workers readying class action lawsuit against EA

Following a tip from an informed source, GameSpot contacted Attorney Robert C. Schubert, partner at San Francisco law firm Schubert & Reed LLP. He said that he has initiated legal proceedings to start a class action lawsuit on behalf of a group of EA employees. "We are seeking unpaid overtime for a good number of [EA] employees who weren't [properly] paid," Schubert told GameSpot this afternoon. "EA contends they were exempt," Schubert said. "We contend otherwise."

To recover the money felt owed them, said employees are trying to file a class action lawsuit against EA seeking overtime pay. On July 29, the complaint Jamie Kirschenbaum vs. Electronic Arts, Inc. was filed in San Mateo Superior Court. Kirschenbaum is one of the members of the Sims 2 design team, although his current employment status at EA could not be clarified as of press time.
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Yeesh. What's the word on wages and hours for animators/texture artists/etc? I'm going to FullSail in January for Comp Animation, with an eye towards getting into games (possibly). But 80-hour weeks for $40k a year isn't my idea of a career, unless it leads in a few years to more sane hours and better pay. Is the "perpetual crunch" as applicable to the art side of game-making?
 
Len Dontree said:
Yeesh. What's the word on wages and hours for animators/texture artists/etc? I'm going to FullSail in January for Comp Animation, with an eye towards getting into games (possibly). But 80-hour weeks for $40k a year isn't my idea of a career, unless it leads in a few years to more sane hours and better pay. Is the "perpetual crunch" as applicable to the art side of game-making?
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You should expect that or less for a starter job, financially, unless your portfolio and experience show otherwise. I'm sure the crunch depends on the company, but Artists usually have it a little bit easier since their day to day experience is filled with deliverables.

If you're just expecting to head to EA and sail into the happy life, think again. But if you have the courage to work your way through a couple of games, you'll either be making more money or will have more choices on where you want to be.
 
Thanks, Crazymoogle...I've been doing a lot of research on this and had come to that conclusion, but this thread was giving me the shivers. I don't have a problem with paying dues for a few years as long as it can lead me to where I want to be (i.e., reasonable hours, good pay [which is relative, I reckon], doing something I enjoy).
 
If the law suit ever go through, expect a lot more out sourcing to place where people are still willing to work like a dog and getting paid less than the salary figure in the US. (Not that they aren't already out sourcing work to overseas...)

While over time is expected in the industry there's not enough push to make management better at scheduling and have reasonable expectations from developers so the crunch usually just become worse and worse as time goes. On the other hand, there's also a lot of inefficiency on the developer side that need to be cut. Part of it has to do with the good 'le charm of being in the game industry - flexible time, flexible hours, play games while you work - which has turned to ways to fill in those mandatory long working hours because people are stressed and burnt out.

Companies like Neversoft has been pushing for minimum over time lately. And the only way they can accomplish it is that they expect people to work 100% during core hours. So no more goofing around, playing games at work during core hours. I heard they have done pretty well.

There're many reasons why many developers say they would not stay in game industry 5 years from now. Things like these need to be resolved...
 
RuGalz said:
Companies like Neversoft has been pushing for minimum over time lately. And the only way they can accomplish it is that they expect people to work 100% during core hours. So no more goofing around, playing games at work during core hours. I heard they have done pretty well.
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I should ask around, but I heard that Neversoft has taken it to one extreme - I heard something like coworkers are not allowed to talk to each other during core hours, or some such nonsense like that. (Maybe they meant social calls only - not allowing people to talk to each other for work reasons sounds bad, bad, bad...)

I don't think many people would agree to work under such oppressive rules, even if they do get to go home at 7...if I have to work under rules like that, I had might as well be programming database software...
 
montanha said:
Yeah, what he said.
I am a Project Manager in the art department at one of the bigger gaming companies. and yeah, we have our crazy periods, but mostly it's 40-50 hour weeks and lot of fun working with the game artwork, plus the stress of scheduling and making sure artists meet their deadlines and marketing is happy with the finsihed product on the shelf, in the mag ads, web or on TV.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's normal most of the time. It's only in the last two or three months when crunch time hits and hours get long. That's for a "normal" game company. EA is obviously nothing like a "normal" company.

The Bookerman said:
Guess why Ubi Soft opened a Shangail studio... CHEAP LABOR.
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And why SOE is in India. Why pay a GM $12 an hour when you can pay an Indian GM $100 a month?
 
The Bookerman said:
Guess why Ubi Soft opened a Shangail studio... CHEAP LABOR.
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When they closed the New York studio, my old boss was sent there. I wonder what she's been up to... all I know is that they were the ones who ported Splinter Cell to the PS2.
 
Figured this might be worth sharing...

EA stopped by my college this past week to speak with kids about job opportunities. I wont bore you with details with the presentation at the moment, but I will say this: one student actually asked: “What about the lawsuit that’s been issued against EA in regards to outstanding unpaid overtime?”

The response the EA rep gave was classic. He started by saying “This past week was pick on EA week by the press” and went on to proclaim that no one should heed reports from the internet, which led the student to reply, “I didn’t read it online, it’s been published in the papers.”

Again, at a loss for words, he rambled on about how the industry as a whole needs to change their ways and act more responsibly, but the student simply didn’t let up. The student next asked "If EA makes more money than Hollywood, why can’t it pay its workers fairly?"

Once again, the guy had no real answer other than saying that with the high wages the average employees earn, plus bonuses is more than sufficient. Then he went on about how management is well aware of this and is doing everything they can to rectify the matter. In fact, according to the guy, they just sent out a survey to all its employees to gauge how they feel about working conditions. It was promised that all answers would be kept totally anonymous and confidential. Yeah right...
 
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